Bow Saw Questions

[Jon Banquer]

Reading The Seven Essentials Of Woodworking by Anthony Guidice. In this book he advocates using a Bow Saw made in Germany that uses a wire and eyebolt to tension the blade. The blade he recommends is a 28", 5 point per inch blade made by W. Putsch.

Has anyone used such a Bow Saw? Where can such a saw be purchased?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

[Roger Davis IN]

Compare the Continental bowsaw at Highland Woodworking. The extra blades are definitely Putsch, so I assume the saw is too. I've got several of the blades but haven't gotten around to building the frames.

[David Weaver]

The emmerich saw at The Best Things is the cheapest good german saw. Actually, it's not a "cheap" made saw at all, it's well made and functions exactly as it's supposed to, and it holds the blade under good tension and stays set where you put it.

The blade is probably putsch (i don't know if anyone else makes them), I can't remember if it was marked well enough to be able to read it. it was surprisingly good for th eprice, usable out of the box (the teeth are punched accurately and not mangled). The only one I have is the 700mm rip saw you're referring to.

I'm pleased with it, and wouldn't goof around buying it from somewhere else at a higher price just to pay more for giggles. The more expensive non-putsch saws appear to be the same saw with a different name, and at a higher price.

One of the members on here has less than favorable things to say about the putsch brand saw (not the blade, but the frame and its fixtures) that highland woodworker sells, and I would avoid it. Actually, several members said the same thing. Not that it's even marginal, but that it's just plain junk and allows the fixtures to turn while the blade is under tension, which makes the saw useless- you'll see what I mean when you use the saw to rip a board.

Buy the emmerich saw and avoid the trouble.

[Gary Curtis]

A very upscale and trendy hardware store in West Hollywood Calif sells a whole raft of German WWing tools, including the Putsch bowsaw. It appears to be somewhat clumsy and probably was made for trimming tree limbs and branches rather than shop use.

The blades are wide. My two bowsaws are delicate by comparison.
Call Koontz and ask them some questions — 310 652-0123.

[Jon Toebbe]

Pass on the Putsch. I tried one a few years back and found it to be unwieldy. Others have recommended the ECE saw -- their wood-bodied planes are awfully nice, so I'd imagine they make a decent saw, too.

[Andrae Covington]

Pass on the Putsch. I tried one a few years back and found it to be unwieldy. Others have recommended the ECE saw -- their wood-bodied planes are awfully nice, so I'd imagine they make a decent saw, too.

Here's a previous thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1523643#poststop) with some discussion of Putsch vs ECE.

[Kirk Poore]

I got what sounds like that or a very similar German-made saw from Garrett Wade a long time ago. The blade was a POS, and I've hardly used it. I've made a couple of bowsaws, and they came out much better. I'd suggest just making one.

Kirk

[Adam Cherubini]

With all due respect, Guidice is full of baloney when it comes to frame saws. The frame saw has no real advantage over western saws. His experiments were severely flawed. To be fair to him, when he wrote that book, he didn't have decent western saws to compare with. And he's sparked a lot of interest and curiosity in hand tool woodworking so he has my undying respect and admiration.

If you are looking for a quick way to saw wood by hand, buy new western saws like those from Mike Wenzloff, or refurbished antiques from a reputable saw restorer. Frame saws have their place. I use mine on occasion. But I feel about them what I suspect most woodworkers feel about hand tools. When I'm looking to get something done, I put down the framed saw and pick up a western saw. This saw (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/blog3/content/binary/resaw.jpg)is a possible exception (emphasis on "possible").

Adam

[James Owen]

Reading The Seven Essentials Of Woodworking by Anthony Guidice. In this book he advocates using a Bow Saw made in Germany that uses a wire and eyebolt to tension the blade. The blade he recommends is a 28", 5 point per inch blade made by W. Putsch.

Has anyone used such a Bow Saw? Where can such a saw be purchased?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Build your own: it takes only a couple of hours to do so, and you get to choose the wood.

My experience with bow saws is that a string/twine and toggle tightening arrangement works the best. I really dislike the rod and nut tightening method, and am not too enthusiastic about the wire and eyebolt method, either; they're both more trouble and much slower than a twine and toggle, and both have a tendency to break fairly easily.

[john brenton]

It may be lame but I'm still a huge fan of the bay. I picked up a pristine 20 something inch german turning saw for next to nothing. I've seen many go cheaply, most recently a set of three that went for less than what you'll pay for a new ECE. Pecktools has the ulmia brand, which I would pay the extra ten bucks for just because I'm a sucker.

If you want the wire tension the Ulmia is the way to go, but I guarantee that after you pay the big bucks you'll wish you had made it yourself. The design is as simple as it gets..

QUOTE=Jon Banquer;1558074]Reading The Seven Essentials Of Woodworking by Anthony Guidice. In this book he advocates using a Bow Saw made in Germany that uses a wire and eyebolt to tension the blade. The blade he recommends is a 28", 5 point per inch blade made by W. Putsch.

Has anyone used such a Bow Saw? Where can such a saw be purchased?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA[/QUOTE]

[Jon Banquer]

With all due respect, Guidice is full of baloney when it comes to frame saws. The frame saw has no real advantage over western saws. His experiments were severely flawed. To be fair to him, when he wrote that book, he didn't have decent western saws to compare with. And he's sparked a lot of interest and curiosity in hand tool woodworking so he has my undying respect and admiration.

If you are looking for a quick way to saw wood by hand, buy new western saws like those from Mike Wenzloff, or refurbished antiques from a reputable saw restorer. Frame saws have their place. I use mine on occasion. But I feel about them what I suspect most woodworkers feel about hand tools. When I'm looking to get something done, I put down the framed saw and pick up a western saw. This saw (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/blog3/content/binary/resaw.jpg)is a possible exception (emphasis on "possible").

Adam

How do you feel about the rest of his book and his no nonsense approach?

[Jules Martin]

I agree with Adam Cherubini. I have the ECE bowsaw. I had to completely refile the teeth in order for it to cut anything like it was reputed to. I found it a hard saw to learn, but it can work well. It's hard to get back on track, I find, unlike a western saw. It is good for tenons because I don't have a big backsaw. I wouldn't buy it again, though.

As for Guidice's book, I had it and gave it away. After the refreshing(?) bluster there's not much in it. His method of cutting mortices seems almost impossible. His joints are messy and the furniture pictured crude. Tage Frid's books are much better, and are the inspiration for Guidice's anyway.

[David Weaver]

Which teeth were bad, the crosscut teeth?

The rip saw teeth are OK, but they, like any teeth that appear to just be freshly punched and set (and not filed), could stand a light joint and a file and be much better.

[Adam Cherubini]

It's been a long time since I read it. I liked it. I thought it was stimulating. But it wouldn't make my top ten list.

I'm rereading some of the books I read many years ago and finding new meanings for me. Sometimes I do this and get annoyed that authors I loved years ago got stuff wrong. Others I love just as much. Mike Dunbar is one of my favorite authors. And Roy Underhill, who's work holds new meaning for me since I've gotten to chat with him a few times. I'm re-reading David Pye's book and enjoying that.

Adam

[Adam Cherubini]

I thought the fine toothed rip blade (11tpi?) was okay out of the box. All the others were crud. The stamped teeth were pretty bad, but they also had unfortunate rake angles. Easy enough for me to make my own or refile ECE or the shorter sandviks. But for inexperienced saw filers, I couldn't recommend these blades in good conscience. Especially when such good back saws are a available so inexpensively.

I used a 18" sandvik bladed homemade saw for many years as a tenon saw. Mine had a fixed blade (which I recommend for beginners at least). In 2003 when I finished making my first 18" back saw, that back saw replaced the frame saw from there on, but I'm not sure it was a dramatically better performer for this operation. For one, the frame saw was much lighter. Some people may prefer a light saw. I generally don't.

Adam

[David Weaver]

I guess I figured that new users who would endeavor to cut joinery by hand should have no issue filing teeth, especially rip teeth, and especially on a blade that's $10 - a user can afford to experiment, especially given the money saved.

I would guess my rip bowsaw teeth probably have 5 degrees of rake, or negative rake some people call it - a less aggressive profile than zero rake.

I've never used a bowsaw for joinery, nor do I have an interest in it. Just wanted to see how it goes with ripping, to see if it's faster than a western saw. It's OK, it's probably faster in the cut, but it's not quite as interesting as I thought it would be - you still end up with a lot more fatigue in the arm that is on the handle above the blade. Even pressure in the rip makes for a wandering cut.

For shorter pieces, it's a lot faster to drop the piece on a sawbench and just cut it than it is to move holdfasts, etc, around, and in my experience, it's easier to stay on the line or next to it (wherever you want to be) standing over the work, so there is less cleanup.

At this point, if I'd never have bought it, I guess I wouldn't feel like I've missed something other than the ability to cut curves, which I don't have at this point, anyway. It would be more interesting to take the rip blade and put it in a frame saw like you've pictured instead of on the edge of the frame, and leave a thinner curve-cutting blade in the saw for the rare piece that doesn't fit in/on a bandsaw (I haven't worked on any such thing yet).

[Kirk Poore]

The bowsaw I use replaced my coping saws. For some reason I could never get the hang of coping saws--mostly my own self-taught flaws, no doubt, but also they were likely just the wrong saw for what I was doing (cutting curves in 1/2" and 3/4" oak). So I made a scroll bowsaw, using 3/16" bandsaw blades with a fairly high tooth count. Cuts smooth, fast, easy to control, reasonable turning radius (for my needs, anyway). I can get six blades out of one bandsaw blade, and they last a long time.

Kirk

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

The workmanship on the Putsch webs are terrible. I got mine working but I had to re-set and re-file all the teeth; it might have been easier to make one out of sheet stock. The Japanese webs Highland Woodworking sells are actually pretty good but due to tendonitis in my elbows I find all large frame saws painful to use for prolonged periods and generally prefer my handsaws.