A Handle for a Gennou

[Derek Cohen]

I have posted this article on my website ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/AHandleforaGennou.html

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Mallets%20and%20hammers/Cover.jpg

This may interest some (admittedly, it is a bit esoteric).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bruce Mack]

That is a handsome complement to the hammer head.

[george wilson]

Excellent rhythm of hammer marks on those hammer heads,Derek. They show how even a very simple shape can be made interesting.The handle suits the head just fine. I like the jarra handle. looks like boxwood.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi George

Is there anything more simple than a handle for a hammer, or a lump of steel for a hammer head?

Isn't it wonderful when one can take something this basic and create art, as the Japanese do, and come up with something that is both ergonomic and functional.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Though it likely has any real difference, I do not like striking my chisel handles with metal.

Actually broke a handle while whacking it with a mallet the other day. It was one of the first handles I have made. I think the design left a little bit to be desired.

jtk

[george wilson]

I do not strike my chisels with metal,either,or my holdfasts. The Japanese obviously do. I wonder how long their handles last ?

[Raney Nelson]

My japanese bench chisels are only about 3 years old, but they're showing no signs of deterioration whatsoever. I use the same gennou that Derek has posted here. If they're set properly, the hoops on the Oiire nomi do an excellent job of preventing the splits that would generally cause failure of a handle.

I know most of the discussion of japanese vs. western chisels focuses on the steel, but to be honest the most important difference to me is that the japanese are designed for metal hammers. I find the metal gives me a more precise degree of control, and it's a different experience in use than a wooden mallet, even lignum.

I'm not suggesting that there's anything I can do with japanese chisels that I can't with good western chisels - or even that it IS actually more 'precise'. I suspect it has more to do with feedback through the hammer than actual control; regardless, though, I find it quite preferable.

Beautiful handle Derek. The jarrah contrasts the hammer very nicely... but perhaps we shouldn't talk So up too much? The backlog is bad enough during surf season without a dramatic expansion of the customer base ;)

[Pam Niedermayer]

...I'm not suggesting that there's anything I can do with japanese chisels that I can't with good western chisels - or even that it IS actually more 'precise'. I suspect it has more to do with feedback through the hammer than actual control; regardless, though, I find it quite preferable. ...

High quality Japanese hammers are soft on the inside and hard on the outside, which probably contributes to your feeling of precision.

Derek, really nice handle job, love that hammer head.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

I'm not suggesting that there's anything I can do with japanese chisels that I can't with good western chisels - or even that it IS actually more 'precise'. I suspect it has more to do with feedback through the hammer than actual control; regardless, though, I find it quite preferable.

Hi Raney

Several years ago I came across a photo of David Charlesworth using a Japanese bench or dovetail chisel. Watching his intense concentration as the gennou was held at a precise angle and used with precise downforce I was struck with the realisation that the whole point of these hooped chisels and the gennou was Precision ..... the gennou adds precision when using a chisel.

I do not strike my chisels with metal,either,or my holdfasts.

Hi George and Jim

Neither do I use a metal (steel or brass) hammer on wooden handles .. unless they are hooped. The Japanese bench and mortice chisels are hooped for this reason. I use a gennou with Japanese chisels because they are designed to be used together.

I have a wonderful carver's type mallet made by Blue Spruce. It is reserved for mortice chisels as I find it too "coarse" (i.e. lacks precision) with un-hooped Western dovetail or bench chisels. For the latter I use a brass-headed chisel with a ebony face. As with the gennou I find the concentrated small area aids precision ...

Blue Spruce ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Mallets%20and%20hammers/Mallets1-1.jpg

Shopmade brass/ebony mallet ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Mallets%20and%20hammers/Malletheads1.jpg

High quality Japanese hammers are soft on the inside and hard on the outside, which probably contributes to your feeling of precision.

Hi Pam

I find it interesting that some woodworkers prefer a urethane-headed mallet for striking chisels, whether hooped or un-hooped. The soft head absords all the energy and I find that then you lose all feedback. Feedback is a vital element of precision. The hard-soft steels in a high quality gennou (such as this Tenryuu) provides a great combination of feel and shock absorbtion.

Amazing that a simple tool as a hammer can generate such passion!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pam Niedermayer]

...

I find it interesting that some woodworkers prefer a urethane-headed mallet for striking chisels, whether hooped or un-hooped. The soft head absords all the energy and I find that then you lose all feedback. Feedback is a vital element of precision. The hard-soft steels in a high quality gennou (such as this Tenryuu) provides a great combination of feel and shock absorbtion.

Amazing that a simple tool as a hammer can generate such passion!

Maybe you missed all the (dis)passion about Japanese planes in the coffin smoother thread? :)

I've never used a urethane mallet, so a couple of months ago I bought one from LV and plan to try it with some carving (Japanese unhooped and western) chisels later this year, just to see what it's all about and why they're called carving mallets.

With your hammer, I think it's another case of most people not knowing anything about Japanese tools and how they're made and how that dictates how they're supposed to be used. Not a criticism, just a dispassionate statement.

Pam

[David Weaver]

The only "dis"passion was that the discussion was never about japanese planes, and discussing them in a useful discussion about western planes was off topic and not helpful.

..and FTR, I have more japanese smoothers (8 of them) than I have western smoothers.

[Stuart Tierney]

I do not strike my chisels with metal,either,or my holdfasts. The Japanese obviously do. I wonder how long their handles last ?

In my observations, Japanese chisels used by folks who know what they are doing with them generally wear out handles, not break them.

As the end 'wears' (a combination of things, but it shortens over time, hence my term 'wears out'. Kind of like chain stretch) the hoop is either pushed down ahead manually or self pushes as the end mushrooms. You might think the hoop would get loose, but when that happens, the handle is really too short for use, and should be replaced. Often, the handle will mushroom like a cold chisel, and needs trimming.

I've never used a chisel enough to do that, but I've seen more than a few 'short' handles and been told of what happens by folks who ought to know.

Just recently I was at a tool show, and I swear the handle guy was the busiest fellow in the place, when he was actually there. I am sure he ran away a lot just to get a break. Of all the folks there, he was by far the least 'pretty' and looked the most amateurish, but always had a good crowd and plenty of business. Just wish I'd been able to speak with him.

On the 'hit a chisel with a steel hammer', the trick is that you choose your handle material and set up to match what you want from it, the hammer is just the deliverer of force. I don't want to go too far off topic here, but the reason for the different woods in Japanese chisels is not to do with aesthetics (except for ebony, which I'm not a big fan of for hitting) but how it behaves between the blade edge and the hammer face.


Derek, I hope that hammer works as nicely as it looks. ;)

If only I could find someone to talk to about getting some nice hammers.

(The hammer fellow from the show above was AWOL, and nobody knew where he was when I asked... :( )

[Pam Niedermayer]

The only "dis"passion was that the discussion was never about japanese planes, and discussing them in a useful discussion about western planes was off topic and not helpful.

..and FTR, I have more japanese smoothers (8 of them) than I have western smoothers.


While the thread started as a discussion about coffin smoothers, why they exist, it quickly changed into a discussion about holding wooden planes and how easy/hard they were to handle [sic]. That is an area in which pulling vs pushing and rectangular vs coffin is appropriate. So I suggest a little more "going with the flow" and a lot less "this thread is about this only" when clearly it's been modified.

Pam, who has grown to appreciate what you normally have to say very much

[Pam Niedermayer]

...
If only I could find someone to talk to about getting some nice hammers...

If you want quality Japanese hammers, there's always Hida (California), Soatoz (Australia), and Iida (Japan).

Pam

[george wilson]

Derek,I am,of course,familiar with the fact that Japanese chisels are designed to be struck with a metal hammer,WHICH I MENTIONED. My Western chisels are not. The comment was not a criticism of you. Neither was the holdfast remark. There is a shop in Williamsburg where they beat the devil out of their holdfasts with steel hammers,and they ought to know better. One of these days,they will crack a holdfast from metal fatigue. That was what was on my mind.

I DO use a small brass hammer to adjust the irons of my wooden planes,but a mallet on the bodies,of course.

Pam,in the coffin smoother thread,we were,after all,discussing PUSHING planes,not pulling them.

[Frank Drew]

Very nice looking hammer, Derek; I agree with George, the hammered (I assume hand-hammered) surface treatment is a great compliment to the overall shape. About that shape, all the Japanese hammers I've used, and owned, have corner rounded square or rectangular shapes; I've never seen a fully round one but I haven't looked lately, either -- is that a common shape?

As for the longevity of Japanese hooped chisels when used with steel hammers, I've used mine a ton -- and I bought them used from a Japanese carpenter -- and there's been very, very little deformation of the struck ends. Hard oak plus strong hoop=long life, I guess.

[Stuart Tierney]

If you want quality Japanese hammers, there's always Hida (California), Soatoz (Australia), and Iida (Japan).

Pam

Uhh, thanks, but no thank you. :o

I'm kinda distracted here, and can't be more eloquent. Dang fax machine is playing up, and I don't know how to fix it. All I want to do is send in an order for a dozen chisels... :mad:


(I'm in Japan, and on first name terms with some tool makers from the Miki area. The rules here won't let me elaborate further... :( )

[Pam Niedermayer]

Sorry, Steve, didn't notice that you're in Japan. So, why are you having problems finding a good hammer in Miki? (That was mostly rhetorical, but if you want to answer....)

As to fax machines, they're abominations, and why everyone doesn't use computer based faxing is beyond me. Or emailed PDF's for that matter.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,I am,of course,familiar with the fact that Japanese chisels are designed to be struck with a metal hammer,WHICH I MENTIONED. My Western chisels are not. The comment was not a criticism of you. Neither was the holdfast remark. There is a shop in Williamsburg where they beat the devil out of their holdfasts with steel hammers,and they ought to know better. One of these days,they will crack a holdfast from metal fatigue. That was what was on my mind.

I DO use a small brass hammer to adjust the irons of my wooden planes,but a mallet on the bodies,of course.

Hi George

Not for one moment did I experience your comments as a criticism, and I hope you realise that my reply was also not one of you, or anyone for that matter.

I also do not use a steel hammer on my steel holfasts. I use a rubber mallet as I hold the same concerns as you do.

The brass/ebony mallet (posted earlier) doubles as my plane hammer - brass for irons and wood for bodies.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stuart Tierney]

Well, the problem is not actually buying a hammer. I got at least 7 gennou right now, of varying degrees of quality. I could run out and get a decent hammer head tomorrow without more than a few minutes drive and a small wad of cash.

What I need is the blessing of the person who makes them, to be able to send them out into the big, wide world. Difficult when you can't find someone at a place where all the tool makers are supposed to be...

And oddly, the recent show/festival I was at in Miki, there was only one hammer maker, aside from Dogyu. He's the fellow I wanted to meet, and I never caught him.

Left my details though, and grabbed one of his cards, so sooner or later I'll give him a call/email unless he does it first.


On the fax machine, I bought the silly thing specifically to send faxes to this one chisel maker. He's not computer savvy, and prefers something he can pick up and read. I think he's either turned the machine off or it's out of paper. I'm happier that he's far, far better at making chisels than emails or faxes, but an email he's going to get. I just hope he sees it within a reasonable time.

I dabbled with using the puter as a fax, but our old phone was kaput, and a new one isn't too exxy, so there it is, with a print out stuck in it's throat and an error message on it's screen.

Stu.