Which Sharpening Stone from Woodcraft

[Allan Froehlich]

Hello All,

I am in a bit of a pickle in regards to my next waterstone purchase. I want to get a stone(s) with a grit in the 4000 to 8000 range to help sharpen chisels. I don't need them to remove heavy material such as when I drop a chisel. I also don't need a stone for finish honing. I need a stone that will help me get a fresh edge on a chisel after I cut a dozen mortises.

My current selection of stones include a DMT duosharp fine/extra fine, a Norton 220/1000 and Japanese 800 and 1200 stones (not sure of the specifics, they are brown).

I was originally thinking about the Norton 4000/8000 stone, but I reminded of the performance by my 220/1000 stone. The stone I have is almost useless. The 220 side does no cutting and simply falls apart when I use it. I literally lose 1/32 inch in the center after making a dozen passes with a 1-inch, hollow ground chisel. As for the 1000 side, it cuts slower than my higher grit stones (maybe 1/10 the rate of the 1200 grit Japanese stone.

I think my DMT does a decent job, but I think I actually wore through the surface on it. I used this stone heavily over the past 4 years. It just does not work like it used to. It is also not flat.

As for my Japanese stones, I acquired them through a purchase of used tools. All that I can really say about them is that they were labeled in Sharpie "800" and "1200." They also wore like soft Japanese stones. Over all, I like these stones, but they have limited range of grit. I also think that they are the Japanese grit (metric?), which puts them at about an imperial 2000-2500 grit.


Here is what my local Woodcraft has:
Norton 4000/8000
Ice Bear 4000 and higher stones
Samurai stones

I am not sure of which type to go for. I am still very wary of my Norton experience. As for Ice Bear and Samurai, I have never really heard about their products, but my Norton experience makes me want to try something different.

All input is appreciated.
Thanks, Allan

[John A. Callaway]

norton usually has a pretty good reputation....but you could try the japanese waterstones. I use the KING 4000 grit and the 8000 grit with great results. woodcraft may sell them.... I know highland woodworking and japan woodworker both sell them, along with many other places....not expensive stones either. the pair is around sixty dollars.

[Mike Davis NC]

Uhh, the DMT you have, are they the plastic ones?

I have the 8 inch solid surface machinist plates and have used them daily for over ten years and they still cut well and are absolutely flat.

I use 325, 600, 1200 and thinking about getting the 8000 grit diamond.

Usually 1200 plus a light stropping is good enough.

[Andrew Gibson]

I think that the ice bear stones are King stones.
I have 200, 800, 1200, 4000, 8000 king stones and use them all (all from LV). when resharpening I ususlly start at the 1200 to pull a noticable burr. Depending on how long I leave it, it only takes a few passes on the 1200. then I move to 4000 and 8000 watching the scratch pattern as best I can. Then finish with a strop and green compound.

[Mark Baldwin III]

I was wondering when I'd see someone else from Milwaukee!!! Anyway, Woodcraft should have the stone you want, they do have a nice selection. Another thing they have...a couple of rows over...is granite plates. They are just a bit over $30, and well worth it. I use the granite plate for flattening my water stone. I let the stone dry out for a while, then I tape sandpaper to the plate. If the stone is way out of true, you can start with 80 grit.
I don't know anything about Norton stones, I only have a Japanese stone (a King, I believe).
If Woodcraft doesn't have the one you want, the Rockler over on Mayfair road carries some water stones too.
Side note...when I was at Woodcraft a while back, I bought a sampler pack of Pinnacle sanding films. They have become my go-to sharpening method. Combined with a piece of glass or a granite plate, they make a great edge.

[Lex Boegen]

DMT warns that you should never use excessive pressure on the stones when sharpening tools. That can cause the diamond particles to break loose from the substrate. Let the diamonds do the work and use only very light pressure--just enough to keep the tool in contact with the surface. I also use a light oil to lube the surface and help flush the swarf away. I have a full set of DMT stones and only use a gold waterstone after finishing with the extra-extra-fine DMT stone.

[David Weaver]

The 220 norton is junk.

In fact, all of the stones that I've seen in that grit level (waterstones at least) are junk. The harder stones will glaze full of material, and the softer ones, like the norton will just fall apart. stones just aren't the thing to use in those coarse grits.

I wouldn't let that affect choices of brands in the finer grits.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. You want something that will put a quick edge on a mortise chisel, but not something for finish honing and you have a 1200 grit stone already.

Were I in your shoes, I would buy any brand of 8000 grit stone, it's the stone you'll gain the most from, but it is a finish honing stone.

If you're using waterstones, which cut aggressively, you'll be able to go straight from 1200 to the 8000 when sharpening if you pay attention to what you're doing.

If you want a "hard" stone, I would fork out the bucks for a shapton (a shapton pro on ebay, not a glasstone). If you don't mind if they're softer, norton, ice bear, kitayama, ... there are tons and they cut most steels (i think they're probably all aluminum oxide abrasive).

This is my advice as a total stone pig. I probably have....25 or 30 bench stones. The films work well for certain things, but I think with experience, except for the people who use only jigs and who don't carve, etc, most people will gravitate back to a good stone after a while.

[Andres Sender]

Ice Bear have an okay reputation but I haven't used one.

I have a King 8000 bought at Woodcraft 1-2 years ago. It works fine but it's not the fastest 8000 grit stone I've used (it's also pretty user-friendly and not too soft, which may work for you). If you end up buying an 8000 through the mail have a good look at the Takenoko. Back when I was researching 8000 grit stones it began to look very good in its price range, and I am a little sorry I let convenience win and got the King.

[James Owen]

The Ice Bear/Samurai/King stones are all decent stones; I've been using the Samurai and Kings stones in various grits for several years, and am happy with cutting speed and durability.

An 8000 grit stone will fit in well with what you already have, as would either the 4000, or a 4000/8000 combo stone.

If you're not happy with the Nortons, then by all means try a different brand.

[Stuart Tierney]

The 220 norton is junk.

In fact, all of the stones that I've seen in that grit level (waterstones at least) are junk. The harder stones will glaze full of material, and the softer ones, like the norton will just fall apart. stones just aren't the thing to use in those coarse grits.



Dave, send me an email. Sigma changed their formula a little, and made the #120 into something otherworldy. While I solved the clogging/glazing of the original stone, the new one works right out of the box. Gives up some of it's dish resistance in favour of cutting speed, and the trade off is not an all bad one at all. ;)

I've been hacking away at CPM-3M and M4 with it, and it just doesn't care. The 10V I have is too small to really know how it will perform with a good sized chunk of that steel.


To the OP, if you have to buy from Woodcraft, then go with the Norton.

I am VERY sure I'd be looking elsewhere though. I wouldn't willingly pay good money for any of those stones, but I might use a gift voucher on them.

Just my take on it.

Stu.

[Terry Beadle]

I recommend the 800 grit King stone for the next step after grinding. I do have a japanese water stone in 220 ( green ) and it will rough in a bevel if you don't want to take the time to grind. It does require frequent sandpaper flattening ( 120 grit wet/dry ) on granite for me but flat ply will do.

I recommend the chinese water stone from Woodcraft for a very reasonably priced polishing stone. They are natural stones so some are 4000 grit and some are 8000 grit. They advertise it as 12000 but I have not found my stone to be that fine. You have to test the stone to determine what grit it might be. But they cut quickly, do not get un-flat quickly and for the price it's as good as a King 8000 on a practical level. The $35 price is very reasonable for the quality of stone.

I have an Ice Bear 10000 and it really does a great job. I only use it for final polish on my sword steel paring chisels and the Blue Spruce A2. It's a bit pricey though.

If you want a intermediate step in the polish, a 4000 grit Norton or King is a good option. I use a muga blue natural stone but it's not as good as the King IMO. I still like the adventure of using natural stones though. But that's me.

Good luck and happy shavings !

[john brenton]

I don't know that I'd get a water stone as a bench stone. They're kind of a pain. I have the DMT in the xtra coarse/coarse grit (as even after trying to care for my low grit Norton as best as I can it's now about 1 cm thick from flattening), and Nortons 1000 to 8000, and a very fine Japanese stone that I slurry to finish if I feel like it.

But for just whetting the edge I have a black Arkansas stone and a rouged strop. I guess I would use the spritzed 4000/8000 stone with just a few passes if I were to use water stones.

A dozen mortices is kind of a lot of chopping...depending on how you do them, quality of your chisels, property of the wood etc.. If you're drilling out the waste first then ok, but I chop em and know mine could probably use a little more than a little refreshment after chopping out 12 of them.

Am I wrong about that? I'm trying to remember the last time I did any more than a few mortices at a time.

[David Weaver]

Am I wrong about that? I'm trying to remember the last time I did any more than a few mortices at a time.

It depends on the chisel, everyone has their methods.

I keep a kitayama polish stone at the end of my bench when I do mortises. I use RI chisels, which are admittedly expensive, but the edge doesn't lose much on each mortise. I also round the bevel some (but not much), which I've seen other people object to. I recall being informed that even an axe shouldn't be sharpened that way or something to that effect. I've never had trouble with the chisel refusing to cut easily in a mortise, though, since they are not wide, and the durability gained is very useful.

After each mortise, I drag the mortise chisel across the surface of the kitayama stone about 5-10 times freehand - like 10 seconds. It takes very little time, and I can't remember ever not keeping the edge up doing that (i.e., where the dulling got ahead of the honing). I don't know if older chisels are durable enough to get away with that because I have only one older socket mortise chisel, and it's not hard.

When the mortise chisel starts to get to a large rounded surface, then you just grind it, hone it properly and start the process over.

[john brenton]

When the mortise chisel starts to get to a large rounded surface, then you just grind it, hone it properly and start the process over.

I guess that's the kicker. All of my mortise chisels are old, and although the don't hold the edge forever, that same hardness/softness is what makes it so easy to whet. Really all I need is my rouged paddle strop, but I try not to rely on it because it can be deceiving.

[Casey Gooding]

The 4000/8000 combo should give you years of use. I only really use the 4000 when working on backs. When honing and polishing I typically go from 1000 to 8000. The 4000 is still useful to have around.

[Jim Koepke]

Just my 2¢...

Most of my stones are Norton. The lower grits seem to wear fast and do not get much use. I do keep a long strip of 80 grit PSA sandpaper on my granite block if things need a lot of work.

I do not have a bench grinder at this time, so I do not hollow grind.

I do have a King 4000 stone that seems to be harder than my Norton 4000 stone. It still cuts fast, but does not seem to wear as fast. It does seem to clog a little more.

Most of the time I am able to refresh a blade in a few minutes of work on the 4000 and then the 8000 stones. As long as there are not any real big nicks in the blade.

I do not let my blades get real dull.

I also have been using a translucent Arkansas stone lately. It gets things close enough to the 8000 stone for most uses. I especially like it for narrow blades that have a tendency to dig into the water stones. I knew I would be kicking myself for not getting more of that when it was available at a great price. We just bought a rock saw for my wife. I want to try and cut off some small pieces for slip stones.

jtk