Lee Valley Customer service, wow

[Jerome Hanby]

I think you can really draw significant conclusions from the little things a company does. I recently ordered a premium hollow mortise chisel and the sharpening kit from LV. They were great about working out whatever the billing problem was between them and my bank. When the items arrived, they looked like great products. Only problem was the clear plastic lid on the sharpening cone case was cracked. I dropped them an email asking if they had any spare lids around, could they drop me a replacement in the mail. Told them it was no big deal, it still worked fine, the cones had just been bounced out of their hard rubber holder and banged around a little during shipping and cracked the lid. They answered my email immediately and seemed very concerned that I had any damage to my order regardless of the insignificant nature. Today I received the Narex Mortise Chisels I ordered (stealth gloat) and there was a second package a little smaller than would be needed to hold a bowling ball. Inside was the best packed item I've ever received, a complete sharpening cone case. If they went to that much trouble and expense (I'm pretty sure they didn't make a nickle off those sharpening cones after supplying that new case and covering its shipping to Alabama) to make such a trivial matter right, I have to think they would be stellar handling an actual problem.

[Callan Campbell]

Wait till you get a refund check in the mail from them, unexpectedly, from an item that you bought a few months ago, and the price dropped. WILL blow your mind, and fatten your wallet..:D

[paul cottingham]

Its true...If every company had the same attitude towards customer service as LV, a lot of message boards on the web would have no content.

You know, cause no-one would have anything to complain about. :D

I'm just sayin'

[Rod Sheridan]

Very true.

About 20 years ago I purchased a beautiful rosewood try square from them, problem was, it wasn't square.

It looked so nice sitting on the tool board that I never returned, or used it.

About 8 years ago I realized it was stupid to keep a non square square so I took it back to the store, without a sales receipt.

The store clerk checked it for square and damage, and replied that he would have to ship it back to Ottawa for evaluation.

A few weeks later I received a letter from Leonard Lee apologizing for the square and an explanation that the last year they sold the square it cost X dollars plus sales taxes and please find enclosed a cheque for said amount.

One of the reasons I buy everything I can at Lee Valley Tools.

Regards, Rod.

[Ruhi Arslan]

There is "customer service" and "customer service light". It makes a lifelong impression if they believe in their product and realize that their products are worthless without the customers. A different line of product line but my best example is few years ago when I discovered that my Thiel speakers were damaged when I retrieved them from long term storage, the baffles were "bowed" out. This was after the 10 years warranty expired by few months. They not only fixed it free of charge but took care of the shipping too (180lb each) and refinished it to make them look like brand new. I may never buy another set of speakers like those but I bring it up at every opportunity.

[Neil Brooks]

Why is it that so few companies truly seem to know what we ALL believe: that great customer service is worth talking about, and DOES influence our buying decisions.

I've only bought a few things from LV, and -- since they were perfect -- didn't have the chance to test out their customer service.

Which is absolutely fine with me, by the way :p

[Paul Hendrickson]

Unfortunately, as a whole, we have perpetuated the price alone mentality in this country. This is why harbor freight and Walmart thrive. However not everyone shops and buys on price alone. For those, Lee Valley will always be first choice. Though in the minority, thank goodness there are enough of us to keep them in business!

[Jerome Hanby]

The problem is that the benefit is practically impossible to measure. When things get tough (or some new head man is trying to maximum profits) there are no real metrics to support customer service and thus it becomes a prime target for cutbacks (or no development in the first place). It all boils down to quality, we all know it when we see it, but how do you define it? That would be a good treatise for a book...oh wait, it already is :D.


Why is it that so few companies truly seem to know what we ALL believe: that great customer service is worth talking about, and DOES influence our buying decisions.

I've only bought a few things from LV, and -- since they were perfect -- didn't have the chance to test out their customer service.

Which is absolutely fine with me, by the way :p

[Neil Brooks]

The problem is that the benefit is practically impossible to measure. When things get tough (or some new head man is trying to maximum profits) there are no real metrics to support customer service and thus it becomes a prime target for cutbacks (or no development in the first place). It all boils down to quality, we all know it when we see it, but how do you define it? That would be a good treatise for a book...oh wait, it already is :D.

Long story short(-ish)....

The CEO and I had a philosophical debate about this, for a while.

I told him that the old Nordstrom model of "make the customer happy" should be our Customer Service position.

He and the President both wanted something much more ... um ... economical.

We queried the database -- looking at roughly a year's worth of customers (BIG sample size), divided into two groups:


Those who had HAD a "Customer Service Interaction," for ANY reason (presumably, SOME problem with their order)
Those who had not (presumably, no problem with their order)

Then we looked at buying behavior over the next year.

Those customers in the FIRST group bought more frequently, spent more money each time, and -- logically -- spent more TOTAL money, over the subsequent year, than did the second group.

In the data was ... what we had DONE FOR the customer, in a proactive effort to retain their business, and leave them 100% satisfied. From there, we could extrapolate the actual cost OF our Customer Service policies.

Our liberal customer service policy had MORE than paid for itself. It had become a de facto profit center.

To my knowledge ... several years later ... it remains basically the same policy, today.

[Jeremy Greiner]

I had no idea their customer service was so good, but now I've added their website to my favorites and will keep them in mind for future purchases.

Word of mouth does help

-jeremy

[ian maybury]

I can only add to the appreciation for LV's way of doing business - I bought quite a decent consignment of hand tools from them last year which they shipped across the Atlantic, and intermittently both before and after that.

I'd add that it's a pleasure to by and large be able to order anything they stock that looks useful in the knowledge that it's not going to be the sort of Borg style 'sourced by an accountant' unfit for purpose junk many of the others mix with decent products. They give that nice warm fuzzy feeling that you get with genuine trust - from the feeling that they are doing the right thing for the right reasons!! i.e. that they genuinely care.

To my mind it's in the end a matter of having the courage to act on what we all know to be the case anyway. Trouble is it takes people in charge that really do walk the talk. The sloppy outfits do the talk part, but routinely burn a significant number of their customers - and it doesn't take an Einstein to figure that that must cost. We don't necessarily kick up about it, but we do remember, and it does influence our buying decisions.

Incra by the way have always done a similarly excellent job to LV for me, the guy I dealt with (thanks Mark) was really excellent on a job that included some complications as a result of my shipping requirements. The service level of woodworking suppliers in the US is generally very good.

In contrast my worst ever US purchasing experience was with a relatively high profile maker and seller of own design accessories and re-seller of others' stuff - they strung out a standard transaction for over 2 months - that was getting a $2,500+ order of stock clamps together and shipped. It was taking weeks to get an answer to an e-mail at times.

Even the shipping company came back to me to complain about how bloody minded and uncaring the contact was.

The result is that when buying from the US/Canada as I do from time to time I'll always check LV or Incra first...

[Andrew Gibson]

I ordered a new set of router plane blades a while back, about a month later I got around to sharpening them up, on of them looked to have been dropped and the corner chipped. I sent an email and 2-3 days later I received a new blade and was told to keep the chipped one and do with it what I like. a suggestion of a beater iron was given.
I have also received a reimbursement check. I was so shocked I called customer service, on a Saturday, and asked if it was legitimate.

[Neil Brooks]

[sorry if this has been said, but ... it's still worth repeating]

Keeping customers is cheaper than acquiring customers.

Smart companies calculate -- and rather live by -- the LTV (LifeTime Value) OF their customers.

It makes a LOT of decisions MUCH easier.

Of course, the whole conversation dovetails nicely with the notion of "Which would you rather have: a good product or a good warranty ?"

Customer service should NOT be a substitute for tight quality control. They should complement each other.

[Don Dorn]

I have and do spend a bit more for a like item to get it from LV. They have always treated me well and deserve the same. They must be supported.

[Bryan Morgan]

[sorry if this has been said, but ... it's still worth repeating]

Keeping customers is cheaper than acquiring customers.

Smart companies calculate -- and rather live by -- the LTV (LifeTime Value) OF their customers.

It makes a LOT of decisions MUCH easier.

Of course, the whole conversation dovetails nicely with the notion of "Which would you rather have: a good product or a good warranty ?"

Customer service should NOT be a substitute for tight quality control. They should complement each other.

My company used to live by the saying: "for every customer that leaves, they take 5 with them" Now, we don't care as long as our stock is going up. :(

[Jerome Hanby]

Customer service should NOT be a substitute for tight quality control. They should complement each other.

I think you have to have good quality to have good support. I did Tech support for UDS/Motorola years ago and I was always able to wade into a problem convinced that our stuff was bulletproof and head and shoulders better than any of our competitors. I would have transferred out of TS pretty darn quick if I was constantly having to perform mea culpas for our product.

[Neil Brooks]

My company used to live by the saying: "for every customer that leaves, they take 5 with them" Now, we don't care as long as our stock is going up. :(


And THERE ... is a classic "Don't get me started ...." issue: the mentality of many publicly-traded companies.

But ... in an effort to honor my commitment to the reasonable rules of SMC ... I'll pass on elaborating any further :p