Handle #2 take 2 opinions please

[Robert Culver]

Ok so I did some of my adjustments and this is what i came up with . I still need to put the bevel on the front top where it will meet the saw plate and carve my wheat. It looks like from the picture I need to straighten up the u on top to. I toook the front and the inside of the handle in to make it look a little better. I think it could still use a bit more but Im pretty close to the kerf for the saw plate on the inside. Im afraid if I take anymore off the front as it may upset the balanced overall look. As always fire away.:)

Oh I also dropped the inside of the handle down a hair.Also took a little of the hook of the top horn. It still needs a little sanding here and there to.

Dang I sure could use a good vise and work bench for this its though to shape it with out one.

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac193/culverrp01/handle2take2.jpg

[Andrew Gibson]

I think it looks great. I would not take any more off the front inside of the handle, you could round the back inside, but only if it would make the saw more comfortable. I think when you cut the chamfers on the front and mount it, it will look great.
I don't have that much patiences to set it aside and come back to it more then once. on all my handles I think the were cut, shaped, sanded, fitted, and got there first coat of finish in one day.

[David Christopher]

Robert, I think your handle looks great.....two things, I wouldnt carve wheat and a little less grove in the top


what are you going to use as a finish ?

[Klaus Kretschmar]

That handle looks really good. I think you did a great job on it. Congrats!

The open grained Walnut can easily get a closed surface by sanding 1 or 2 coats of shellac wet in. The sanding dust fills the pores quite good. After that you can finish it as you like it. The surface will be smooth.

Klaus

[george wilson]

Much better. But,the lamb's tongue needs to slightly taper thinner towards the end near the blade,like a dog's tail. That needs to start at the flat area where the tongue first leaves the grip.

If you could get the last bit of flat from the bottom of the cheek it would look better,too.

Make the "U" shaped dip at the top about 1/3 wider. It is still too much of an abrupt notch.

Are you aware that the top surface of the handle,where it first curves up,just to the right of the U notch,and the front edge of the cheek should be "V" shaped where they go against the blade? I'm not sure I have described this last part correctly.

I am not saying you have done a bad job of this handle,but if you want it to become better,which I am sure you do,please make these further adjustments. The lessons you finally learn will become ingrained in your ability to design later on.

P.S. Go to FAQ. Look down to section#6. Look up my crosscut saw handle to see the beveling of the cheek . I don't think you can see the top edge,but it is beveled too. Good luck.

[Roy Griggs]

Robert have you tried clamping your handle in a handscrew and then using another handsrew to clamp it to a work surface?
Where your blade cover curves into your handle, left above the "U", check out this detail from an 189?-1917 Disston #12. On a #12 this is just the tiniest of beaks...one of my personal favorite details on Disston saws.

[Robert Culver]

Ok Geogre has inspired me to look into the wood again hahaha. thanks for all the complaments it is nice to hear them and gives a good bump of confidence. I am wondering about the finish myself. The first one I did I used qualasole on it and while I thik that that is a great finsh for other items I personaly dont like the feel of it on a saw handle. I refinshed 2 D8's with 5 coats of teak oil and then buffed in a coat of bees wax I like that feel much better. In courous about the wet sanding of shelac. My questions here are Is is an easy prosses to do? what do I need to watch for is the drying time a factor here? will I need to work quickly, and lastly will it take an oil finish after . It sounds as tough Im just filling pores here.

[Robert Culver]

I really like the looks of the D-12 handle also The older disstons are my favorites for sure. I havent used any clamping devises yet but may today as just clamping it between my knees is pretty limiting its kinda hard to hold at certain angles and get in with files and rasps I dont have a shop yet so I havent went into the bench world but thats pretty high on my list for next spring. I have been just working off my picnic table under the deck. I hav considered building a shave horse saw bench hybrid type thing just to get me by til I get my shop set up.

[george wilson]

Robert,you have done a GREAT job for just holding it between your knees!!! A+ for tenacity. That's the kind of thing I did as a kid with no money and no tools. It builds up tenacity for sure.

[David Weaver]

Robert, I've done all of my totes and knobs in a machinists vise with soft jaws (aluminum or wood).

I don't have any inclination to get a patternmaker's vise, and I found a large 5" us made bench vise for $35 at a flea market.

That's an idea. Would mount to a picnic table or makeshift bench with lag bolts, will have a base that turns to give you lots of angles at the work and no racking issues like a bench vise would with small work.

[Marv Werner]

Robert,

Regarding a good vise for handle making, here's what I found to be most handy.

Bought at www,stewmac.com This is a luthier's supplier. George probably knows all about this outfit. This is great company to do business with. The first vise arrived with a bent main screw. Upon notifying them, they immediately put a second vise in the mail with a free return label for shipping back the damaged one. No questions asked.

I bought their "Guitar repair vise" The price is about right but it's made cheaply and it needed some rework to make it screw in and out smoothly and accurately. Both jaws swivel and they open up quite wide and the whole vise rotates by loosening a huge wing nut on the underside. And the jaws are padded with a layer of urethane. It's now priced at $135.84 plus shipping. They only charged me $10 to ship it to California. They are located in Ohio.

[george wilson]

Woodcraft has been selling a sinilar vise for 40 years. It used to be German. I bought mine in the 60's when it was $40.00,and still have it. The price of the German one got up to over $200.00 by the early 70's. I think they priced themselves out of the market.

Finally,the Taiwan imports came out for under $100.00. I have bought about 4 or 5 of those for work and home. It is well if you can check one out at Woodcraft before buying one. One I got was so loose,I had to interpose a piece of sheet metal between the main body and the black horizontal arms. The rest have been equal to the German ones.

THE ABSOLUTE WORSE one I EVER saw was a Canadian copy that the dept. of furniture conservation bought. It was hopelessly loose as a goose everywhere !!!

We had a German one at work,whose screw stripped out of the nut,rather surprisingly,as it wasn't cheap. The nuts are habitually NOT threaded deep enough. I was going to have to make a new screw and nut. I found out that a broken Chinese machinist's vise's nut and screw fit the German vise just fine,with a small mod to the nut.

Stewart Mac. came out with this variant,which has a roller bearing in the screw,which the others don't have,and a nicer handle,and the padded jaws. It isn't priced much over the regular type Taiwan ones.

The German or Taiwan clones are the vises I use more than any other vise,and have for many years. I like the swiveling jaws for holding tapered work.

This pattern of vise was originally billed as a gunstocker's vise,but now days,that is never mentioned. Maybe they are afraid of losing liberal customers ? So,they call it a "Universal woodworker's vise". I fully recommend it. BUT,it DOES depend upon what type of work you are doing. I'm kind of different,because I've never had the slightest interest in owning an Emmert type vise. I actually bought one years ago for $75.00,but it was pretty rusty,no moreso than the one shown in another thread, I took it back,when I could have had it sand blasted and painted it.

I don't know if I like the urethane(or whatever) padded jaws. My wife has one,and the plastic padding has gotten squished down permanently so it won't hold thin items. I just make up a bunch of maple jaws and keep them on hand.

[Robert Culver]

thats a pretty nice vise and looks pretty universal definatly something to keep an eye out for.I have a woodcaft close will check around up there next time im near.

[Marv Werner]

Before I bought from StewMac, I checked around at other online sellers of the vise and found that they all looked quite cobby.

On mine, the more you screwed the jaws open, the tighter it got. Instead of shims I chose to use a coil spring method to allow the side bars to spread as they needed to as the jaws opened. The problem is, the front casting is not milled the same width as the back casting where the side bars are attached and slide.

I don't like the sloppy fit between the screw and the nut, but it's tolerable, barely. I did fix the sloppiness between the bearing in the front and the step in the shaft inside the casting. I made a washer spacer to take up the slack inside. That reduced some of the slop in the crank rotation. To be truthful, I was kind of disappointed in the thing as a whole. From that standpoint, I concluded it was a bit over priced. But now that I have it working much better, I really like the vise.

Here's what I did to fix mine... I can adjust the pressure on the bars with the hex nut on each side. The spacer between the bars is cosmetic.

[george wilson]

Well, their vise doesn't sound too promising. I think I'll continue to advise people to actually handle one at Woodcraft if possible before buying. I only had the 1 dud,which I did fix with a few shims. I could have just turned down the ends of the spacers some,but didn't want to bother with it.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Robert,

the wet sanding of shellac is a fast and easy thing. Apply a coat of shellac with a brush and begin the sanding before it´s dried. It dries quick! I use grit 120 and sand at first in grain direction. As soon as there is the sanding dust (it´s sanding mudd because of the shellac), I sand slightly rectangular to the grain to fill the pores. Then wait 10 minutes until the shellac is dried and sand dry with grit 180. On the most woods 1 coat is enough. Some others like Wenge prefer 2 coats before they are ready to get closed.

The clamping I do with a light and cheap vise. It looks like a piece of chunk but it serves pretty good on making handles. It has a ball joint which can be fixed in every position and the head can be turned. It´s not really strong but of course strong enough to clamp a handle. The following pics show a clamped handle in several positions. The handle had been fixed in the same position while taking all pics.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8mxkzBCYMc4/TOFxSOmn2rI/AAAAAAAAAr4/ccesAnKjsT0/s1600/CIMG2167.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8mxkzBCYMc4/TOFxSlr7ndI/AAAAAAAAAsA/V6ogLeJaFC8/s1600/CIMG2168.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8mxkzBCYMc4/TOFxTiAE0BI/AAAAAAAAAsI/NGE-YbTDCe8/s1600/CIMG2169.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8mxkzBCYMc4/TOFxUJrWMoI/AAAAAAAAAsQ/5z6PotLerYw/s1600/CIMG2170.JPG


Klaus

[Marv Werner]

Klaus,

I like that vise! The handle that's clamped in it is looking pretty good too ;)

[Robert Culver]

Klaus I like that vise that looks really handy Do you happen to remeber where you got it? I worked out a couple of kinks in my handle today and am going to try to get to the first coat of finish tomarrow Im going to give the wet sanding a try. I was going to try to carve wheat into this one but I got a cherry handle started that may be better for a first try.Im sure its still could ude a few more tweeks but im going to move on with this one and keep apply what I have learned to the next ones.I have beeen really tempted to get the sash saw from tfww as a kit ;) christmas is coming. I wish I could get a bad axe as a kit that would be cool to...... ahhhh the posabilitys are endless. Im liking this so much I even considered re handling my dovetail saw with a piece of curly walnut.;)

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Robert,

I saved this vise from the garbage ton. A friend who is a car mechanic got the vise as an advertising present from a supplier he worked together with. He wanted to throw it in the garbage because he called that thing a toy but not a tool. Before throwing it away I asked him to give it to me though I had no idea to use it. So it was laying a few years in the darkness of a drawer. When I started making saw handles I remembered that thing. Now I´m happy to have it.

The saw making is a very slippery slope. Take care!

Klaus