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Bob Riefer
11-10-2010, 11:24 PM
I'm going to my first auction next week. I believe it's either a retired or passed away cabinet maker's shop being auctioned. For sake of not being depressed about it, let's say retired. In any case, I researched whatever I could based on very poor auction details, and fairly poor pictures. There's definitely some items that would be great for a guy like me to pick up.

But, what's an auction like? What kind of pricing can one hope for? Is there pro-like auction attendees that are going to make it difficult for me to score? Any advice or comments?

Thanks!

Steve Schoene
11-10-2010, 11:53 PM
Auction pros are not the guys that will make it difficult to score, it's the other actual woodworkers that can run up the bidding. The pros have to buy at a wholesale price so they can make money reselling the item. Only if they already have a "fish" customer lined up will they bid too much. They will keep you from absolutely stealing things.

But folks buying for their own use can get into the "got ta win this item" mode. That can bid prices to crazy levels. So, to avoid that research fair prices for the things you are interested in, set a level you are willing to pay, and when the bid reaches that level just stop. Period.

Make sure you get their as early as the doors open so you can thoroughly and dispassionately examine the things you might want to buy.

Gary Hodgin
11-11-2010, 12:14 AM
Auction pros are not the guys that will make it difficult to score, it's the other actual woodworkers that can run up the bidding. The pros have to buy at a wholesale price so they can make money reselling the item. Only if they already have a "fish" customer lined up will they bid too much. They will keep you from absolutely stealing things.

But folks buying for their own use can get into the "got ta win this item" mode. That can bid prices to crazy levels. So, to avoid that research fair prices for the things you are interested in, set a level you are willing to pay, and when the bid reaches that level just stop. Period.

Make sure you get their as early as the doors open so you can thoroughly and dispassionately examine the things you might want to buy.

Good advice. I've not been to many auctions, probably 10 or so, but I know you need to get there early to look around and think about what you're willing to pay for something and stick to it. As bids go up, it's easy to start thinking like "well if I offered $100, I'll go to $110 because I'd hate to lose this thing over a few bucks." And, don't think of it as "winning" and "losing." You haven't won anything if you paid too much for something, nor have you lost anything if you didn't pay too much for something.

Good Luck!

Bill LaPointe
11-11-2010, 5:34 AM
Auction pros are not the guys that will make it difficult to score, it's the other actual woodworkers that can run up the bidding. The pros have to buy at a wholesale price so they can make money reselling the item. Only if they already have a "fish" customer lined up will they bid too much. They will keep you from absolutely stealing things.

But folks buying for their own use can get into the "got ta win this item" mode. That can bid prices to crazy levels. So, to avoid that research fair prices for the things you are interested in, set a level you are willing to pay, and when the bid reaches that level just stop. Period.

Make sure you get their as early as the doors open so you can thoroughly and dispassionately examine the things you might want to buy.

Very true!! I made my living for 20 years buying at auctions. Prices will run from ridiculously cheap to stupid high, depending on the demand by the bidders. Most auctions now have a "buyers premium" of 10 to 20% that will be added to your bid price. Don't forget to add that in to the top price you are willing to pay. If you do not have a sales tax number, sales tax will be added to your bid price plus the "buyers premium". Also keep in mind that you may have to load heavy equipment without any assistance from either the auction company or the seller. Many times the goods must be removed the same day as the sale so pay close attention to the auctioneers terms of sale at the start of the auction. Your bid is a legally enforceable contract. Buyers remorse is not allowed. All that being said, you can get some great buys if you watch what you're doing. Good luck and buy some bargains!

Dan Hintz
11-11-2010, 6:58 AM
Bob,

You should join Mike and me at an auction some time... a couple of weeks ago Mike picked up a Powermatic PM95 lathe for $300 (I estimate it was a $3k machine when new). If it hadn't been for one other guy, he would have had it for $50. You never know what can happen.

Of course, the beast weighed in at probably 600+ pounds, so it wasn't an easy thing to move.

Tom Hammond
11-11-2010, 7:18 AM
And, don't think of it as "winning" and "losing."


Along with the "research the prices prior to going to the auction" advice, getting away from this "You've won the auction" garbage is THE most important thing to learn going on. The concept of "winning" has no place at an auction. This is not a negotiation, where one party may get a deal "at the expense of" the guy across the desk, and sometimes where that guy is someone you have come to not care for so much... and you want to "win" if only to make that guy "lose". You are making an offer of buy... and your focus should be on the item only, NOT a competitive bidder. Set a number, don't exceed it and DON'T feel regret if you don't end up buying a certain item. What's the worst case scenario? You go home with your money still in your pocket? Nothing wrong with that.

I've been to hundreds of auctions of all types... I've been there when it was nothing but $1 box lots, and one where the first item we walked in on was a Tiffany lamp that went for over $150,000. The auctions, in the end, all work pretty much the same... the UNemotional bidders get the best deals. Good luck and have fun!!

Jerome Stanek
11-11-2010, 10:18 AM
The biggest thing like other people have said set a price and do not go over it. I hear all the time I could have had that for just a little more than I bid the trouble with that is you do not know what the other bidders limit is.

Myk Rian
11-11-2010, 10:50 AM
When you register, ask questions. Such as any charges tacked on to the sale, charge card charges. They'll happily answer your questions since they get them all the time.

I passed on a metal/wood Delta BS with lamp when it got to $275. 2 others were bidding it up.

The pros may be wearing dirty coveralls or a suit jacket. They know when to quit, and you can pick them out after a couple items. When they quit bidding, it's getting nearer the top price.

Auctions are a lot of fun to attend.
You can actually understand the Auctioneer. :)

Ellen Benkin
11-11-2010, 11:28 AM
Go early to really check out the equipment. I've found that the "kids" of the deceased usually take the good stuff and leave lots of crap for the auction. You also want to check the quality of what is there. Do set a "highest" price in mind but don't worry about going a little over that. Don't ever stop on an even number like $200. Always be willing to to to $220 to get an item. Watch the other bidders and have fun! I love auctions.

Steve Wurster
11-11-2010, 12:27 PM
Bob, where is this auction? I live in the Philadelphia area and might be interested in checking this out. Thanks!

Lee Schierer
11-11-2010, 12:34 PM
Good advice so far. I went to an auction a number of years ago where several woodworking items were up for bid. At the time I was interested in a table saw. They had a Craftsman saw and I bid a couple of times on the item and was always out bid by another fellow. After I dropped out two other guys bid the item up quite high. They ended up buying it for more than the saw cost new in the store. I know I had the Sears tool catalog in my pocket. One of the other bidders said that it was a nice saw and that I should have bid more. I showed him the catalog and all he could do was shake his head as he didn't know what a new one cost.

Mike Cruz
11-11-2010, 12:55 PM
Oh, I WON baby, I WON!!!!!!! Heheheheheheheheheheehheehhhheheheheeheheheheheheh eheheheheheheehe.

Okay, I'm over that...no I'm not. I WON! Woooooohooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! Heheheheheheheheheheheheehehehheheehehehehehehehe.

Seriouly, though. I've only been to two auctions. The first was an estate type where it seemed as though either the husband just passed, or the wife just passed and now ith was time to get rid of everything. There were a TON of older tools. Man, the crowd was ALL OVER this stuff. Old planes, drill bits, so much stuff (in very nice condition, I might add) but it wasn't stuff for me. Before even getting a number, I ended up leaving...nothing to bid on. With all those wwers and folks that new they could flip stuff if they got it low enough, I doubt there was a deal to be had...

HOWEVER, at the auction that I got my PM90 lathe, it was in a corn field with pick ups, and tractors, and dump trucks, and dirt bikes, and a trike (the 3 wheel atv kind...yeah, haven't seen one of those in a while). There were only a handfull of wwing tools, and believe me, 98% of the folks that showed weren't there for those! That's why I got a good deal. I'm hooked though. I want to go to more...

Jerome Stanek
11-11-2010, 1:20 PM
Bob, where is this auction? I live in the Philadelphia area and might be interested in checking this out. Thanks!


And bid against you

Mike Cruz
11-11-2010, 1:48 PM
Jerome, we were all thinking it, but ya had to say it didn't ya...

I'm sure Steve is an upstanding Creeker that just wants to join a fellow Creeker at an auction, talk tools and have a good time. He wouldn't bid against his fellow Creeker for something that he knew that fellow Creeker really wanted. He would stand right beside him and give him confidence and support.

Just like Dan did for me. He stood beside me, well, actully he stood behind me, but I knew he was there, rooting me on. Everytime the bid went up, I nodded. I never saw anyone else nod or bid, but someone must have been. But knowing that Dan was right behind me, gave me courage and I just kept bidding higher. With Dan behind me...wait a minute...:eek:

DAAAAAAAANN!!!!!!

Steve Wurster
11-11-2010, 2:03 PM
You guys are so unfair! :)

Dan Hintz
11-11-2010, 2:18 PM
I was giving him bunny ears... I have pics to prove it, and the wink/nod of a cutie as a "thanks for adding humor to the auction". :)

Mike Cruz
11-11-2010, 2:35 PM
Cutie? Cutie? Dan, your standards have really sunk. There was one questionable cutie there...

Oh, and thanks for getting her to wink/nod...that UPPED THE PRICE!

Charles Wiggins
11-11-2010, 2:37 PM
Auction pros are not the guys that will make it difficult to score, it's the other actual woodworkers that can run up the bidding. The pros have to buy at a wholesale price so they can make money reselling the item. Only if they already have a "fish" customer lined up will they bid too much. They will keep you from absolutely stealing things.

But folks buying for their own use can get into the "got ta win this item" mode. That can bid prices to crazy levels. So, to avoid that research fair prices for the things you are interested in, set a level you are willing to pay, and when the bid reaches that level just stop. Period.

Make sure you get their as early as the doors open so you can thoroughly and dispassionately examine the things you might want to buy.

+1

If they have a preview time scheduled BE THERE! Write down lot numbers, makes and models and notes about condition. Take a small square/straight edge so you can determine how true the tools are. A few basic tools to take things apart and examine them is not a bad idea either (ask first). Take the time to look at details so you can do your research and formulate a top bid.

As others have warned, be prepared for anything to happen with bidding. I got an older Fein Multimaster (http://ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27046) that I wasn't even planning to bid on for $27.50 because I just couldn't believe that someone was about to get it for $25. I have also lost several pieces of shop equipment because bidding just went too high. Last Saturday I was at an auction and watched at 6" Craftsman jointer in fair condition go for $150. I dropped out at $80. A Black and Decker Workmate 300 went for $85. I dropped out at $45. Know what things are worth in the market, and more importantly, what they are worth TO YOU. Set your top price in advance and STICK TO IT no matter what some idiot does.

My 2 cents,
Charles

Jerome Stanek
11-11-2010, 3:16 PM
Talking about crazy bidding At my moms auction there was a rocker that my wife wanted but I wasn't sure if I could be there to bid as I had to help out other people. I had a friend bid for me and it started out low but by the time I got there it was up to over $300 and still going strong. My friend was bidding it up and when his wife looked over at me I waving my hands not to bid any more let it go. It sold for $450 but was only worth about $50. Someone got there to late to see the bidding and asked me how much did it sell for when I told him he goes no the wooden rocker and I said that was it. he told me he would have bought it for $25 but no way was it worth $450.

Bob Riefer
11-11-2010, 3:31 PM
Hey Steve,
Here's the listing:
http://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/964612.html

I'm literally limiting myself to a max of $50. I don't really need anything at this point, so I'm really just going for the learning experience and to meet other local woodworkers. If I can score some clamps or some decent router bits etc. that's cool, but if I walk away without anything, that's cool too.

(PS - I always feel like I got in trouble when a topic is moved! ha ha)

Mike Cruz
11-11-2010, 3:37 PM
Looks like a great auction...guess we'll ALL see you there. ;)

Actually, if I lived closer, I might actually do it. But I'm probably a good 4 hours away. Have fun guys.

Dave Lehnert
11-11-2010, 4:44 PM
You just never know at an auction. I went to an auction at a woodworking tool manufacture that was down sizing the factory. There was a mob there for the office furniture. When they got to the tools people just looked at each other and did not bid. some tools were left on the floor with no bid.

The only thing I will add. If it is a large auction be prepared to spend a long time there. The items you want may take hours to get to. Also at times they will group items together to get things to sell. Say you want a planer. When it comes up for auction they may group it with a box of hand planes or a box of shoes. If the planer is sitting on a trailer it may be sold that way.

Michael Weber
11-11-2010, 4:57 PM
Bidding strategy. Once I decide to bid on an item I set my maximum price and then once the bidding starts I up the bid by the auctioneers increment IMMEDIATELY after another bidder. Works best with only two bidders. In my small mind I believe this enhances my chance of getting the item as it leaves less time for the other bidder to think. If you have to take the time to think about it the other bidder will believe your about to drop out. YMMV. As another poster suggested I will sometimes exceed my maximum bid over an even number hoping the other bidder has set that number as a maximum. Then I STOP, shake my head no and walk away.

Steve Schoene
11-11-2010, 6:01 PM
I have gone to an antiques auction, bidding for a friend who is a dealer. (He didn't want to go himself since he is too well known by the other dealers. They know he deals with the really good stuff and on occasion just bid against him, riding on his knowledge coattails.) My instructions were to win the bid--no limit. (He already had the item pre-sold to a well-heeled customer, back in the days.) Was the most expensive item at that particular auction--interesting looks and comments from dealers hoping you were a new prospect.

John Coloccia
11-11-2010, 6:55 PM
As others have said, if you keep your wits about you and bid unemotionally, it's a great way to save a bundle of money of stuff you don't need and will never use...

:D

Seriously. There are some great deals to be had if you're patient and keep your head. If you're the kind of poker player that stays in to see what's going to happen, stay away. If you toss your hand on the first bet when it's not right, it might be for you.

Steve Wurster
11-11-2010, 6:57 PM
Thanks for the link, Bob. Actually, I don't think I will be attending. Too much going on at home and SWMBO wouldn't want me buying anything anyway! Oh well.

Mike Cruz
11-11-2010, 8:51 PM
Bob, Steve will be the guy with the paper bag over his head so you can't identify him and ridicule him infront of the whole forum for outbidding you by a dollar. :D

Jim Mattheiss
11-11-2010, 10:08 PM
I just got in from an Estate Auction run out of the Ukranian Cultural Center in Somerset NJ. The box lots were mostly all sorts of brick-a-brac and stuff - nothing I was interested in.

There was a box with 4 BRAND New 3-D Cell Maglights - still in the plastic. That box went for $35 dollars and the bric-brac people were astounded. THOSE sold for $35 when this nice glassware is going for $5.

I would have bid but I didn't need them.

Unfortunately I missed lot 19 - a wood box with a Stanley 45 plane with a bunch of the cutters. I would have been interested in bidding if I didn't have to work all day. . .

This auction started selling box lots at 9:30 AM this morning and they were selling them at 9:30 this evening when we left. We arrived at 6:00 after dinner and spent 3 1/2 hours watching.

So - as everyone has said : Do your research and don't get caught up in the moment. Set your top price and stick with it.

Cheers

Jim

Jarrett Vibert
11-11-2010, 11:14 PM
Once I decide to bid on an item I set my maximum price and then once the bidding starts I up the bid by the auctioneers increment IMMEDIATELY after another bidder. Works best with only two bidders.

x2... The auto-fire increase has broken the will of many competitors caught up in the auction :p.

I think the bulk have stated to keep emotion out of your actions, and I completely agree, but the reality is most don't. The seasoned guys have their number, and won't stray from it. However they're not the ones that will prevent you from getting that steal. Using Micheal's scare tatic is a very solid ploy. I've witnessed many bidders being muscled out of items because two others simply didn't give them the chance to jump in. The Auctioneer WILL be paying attention to those being active.

This may sound underhanded, but I've considered bringing a buddy with me purposely to create a bidding war between us on wanted items. :o

I'll also second the use of uneven caps for your limit. Being the guy to get to that uneven number first is the tricky part.

Dan Hintz
11-12-2010, 6:44 AM
Don't look around the room looking for the other bidder when things get heated, either... it doesn't matter who your opponent is, your final price is all that matters. If you stop to look around, the other guy knows you're nearing your break point. It's a poker match, and you just handed over your 'tell'.

Bill Leonard
11-12-2010, 6:48 AM
I put myself through school as an auctioneer. Be aware that my job was to get the most for the item. That required me to keep you in the game. Do not get caught up in the "excitement and attention" of the auctioneer. A good auctioneer will get you to bid more than you expected to pay, so set your price and stick to it. It is too easy to just bid one more time. If this is truly your first auction, be careful. Auctions do become addictive. Good luck and bid wisely.

Bob Riefer
11-12-2010, 3:41 PM
Ok, so I was a last minute addition to a weeklong business trip, so I'm in arizona right now. Anyways, it has my schedule all mixed up, and I'm going to miss the auction tomorrow (my return flight arrives too late).

SO... Now my question is.. What are the best resources to find out about other auctions? I really want to check one out, especially now that I've read all of your advice!

Mike Cruz
11-12-2010, 5:15 PM
Bob, just use auctionzip.com where you are. Punch in the zip code and a radius proximity that you are comfortable with, and you'll find auctions in AZ, too! Good luck!

David Freed
11-12-2010, 6:18 PM
Most auctions now have a "buyers premium" of 10 to 20% that will be added to your bid price.
I have been to lots of auctions and never heard of that.

Mike Cruz
11-12-2010, 6:33 PM
David, maybe it is a local thing, but I have heard from another Creeker that an auction he is looking at/participating in has that caviat. Whatever your final bid is, they tack on an extra 15% "fee" that you have to pay the auction company. So, if you your top price for said tool or item is $1000, you have to figure in tax (6% here) and the extra 15% auction fee, so your top bid would be closer to $850. Something to think about...:rolleyes:

Myk Rian
11-12-2010, 7:26 PM
The only thing I will add. If it is a large auction be prepared to spend a long time there. The items you want may take hours to get to.
Last auction I went to I took a large coffee and a newspaper with me.