Grizzly GO513X2B vs. Rikon 10-336

[Maik Tobin]

So, another band saw thread....I have been back n forth so many times my head is spinning. I need a bandsaw, no wait...I want a band saw. Not sure just how much I will use it, but I don't want to skimp. My use will be primarily cutting curves and some lightweight resawing. These two saws seem to meet my needs and as far as I can tell, the only real difference between them that I can see (other than 1 inch) is that the Grizz has a brake. Both are said to be easy to change blades, and the Rikon is currently available whereas the Griz in on backorder til end of Dec (delay will not bother me). Also, I already have 220 in my shop.
I would appreciate any assistance from anyone who has also considered these two saws.

[Scott Dodd]

I just went thru the same ordeal. Which BS? I read pretty much every thread here and on other forums and it just got so confusing my hair was a hurtin'. So, I called the local Woodcraft and ordered the Rikon 10-345 while its on sale. They called yesterday and said it was in. Now I have to figure out how to get it into the shop but the "which one" decision is over. Read all you want but it comes down to "just do it". They are all good saws.

Good luck,

Scott

[Charlie Stone]

Maik,

I have the G0513 and LOVE IT. It is very easy to change the blade UNLESS you put a 1 inch blade on it. Then it is a bear. I currently have mine wired to 110, since my shop doesn't have 220. It still just blasts though resawing any log that will fit in the gap. I paid the few extra bucks to get lift gate delivery and the driver was nice enough to help me put it inside my shop for the cost of a pepsi.
I love love love the saw.
If I remember right, the only difference between the 2 models is the cast iron wheels and the fence. For my money, I am okay with the aluminum wheels, but I do like the look of that taller fence.
Either way, I love my griz.

[Charlie Stone]

P.S. As with most things, the stock blade was crap. Order some new blades from somewhere else at the same time.

[Charlie Stone]

actually, if you go Griz, go for the fence and the bearing guides, go with the X2B over the one I got.

[glenn bradley]

I believe we have happy owners of both so that's not much help to you. I have the G0513X which is the "tweener" model that got dropped. Just like the G0513X2 but with steel trunnions versus the now standard cast iron. A brake would be nice but, I haven't missed it. I have the feeling it is like electric side-view mirrors on your car; you never knew you had to have them until you had them ;-))

[david blakelock]

I am going thru the same debate. I just got the latest Fine Woodworking Tools & Shop issue and they have a review of bandsaws. They ranked the Grizzly G0514X2B as the best overall and the Grizzly G0513X2B as the best value. The reviewed the Rikon 10-345 so not quite the same model you are looking at but the information should still be helpful. Based on this article I am going to order the G0514X2B for my new shop. Although based on what you said they are on back order so I guess I will wait for a while to get it...

[Van Huskey]

What is the price you are looking at on the Rikon 16"? WC has the 10-345 18" on sale for $999.

I am not a big fan of motor brakes, I much prefer a foot brake but nothing at this price point has one. I personally would not even get the motor brake on a 513, I would just get the 513X2 instead which is on sale now. The $800-$1100 price range is an excellent place to be at given the current sales. The Grizzly 513P and 513X2 along with the Rikon 14" and 18" saws are all excellent prices on solid saws. I prefer the Rikon 18" but seeing you are in Mass you will have tax on the Rikon from WC and possibly shipping but it would be my choice.

[Van Huskey]

I am going thru the same debate. I just got the latest Fine Woodworking Tools & Shop issue and they have a review of bandsaws. They ranked the Grizzly G0514X2B as the best overall and the Grizzly G0513X2B as the best value. The reviewed the Rikon 10-345 so not quite the same model you are looking at but the information should still be helpful. Based on this article I am going to order the G0514X2B for my new shop. Although based on what you said they are on back order so I guess I will wait for a while to get it...


That is sub $1500 saws correct?

Before you order the 514X2B consider the 514X2. It is cheaper and I think foot brakes are far more useful. A well designed foot brake (I have not used the 514X2) can stop the blade faster than a motor brake AND you can use it without moving your hands off the wood AND can use it when you are on the side or rear of the saw, which is a much better safety feature. Bottom line I prefer the foot brake and it is $155 cheaper.

[Cary Falk]

Then it is a bear.

Is it a (Shop)Fox all the other times????:D Get it? bear.. It's a Grizzly. Sorry just got off the night shift.:(

I have the G0513X2 and love it. I think it is a win win either way. I would be more interested in a foot brake(G0514x2) instead of a motor brake.

[mreza Salav]

Amazon had the 18" Rikon a few days ago at $1063 with free shipping (and I suppose no tax as usual).
If I was not in the unusual situation I am I'd be tempted to take advantage of the current sales and would get one of the two (either Grizzly or Rikon).
Of course I know i like to get a Laguna with larger resaw. So I might just wait...

[Bruce Darrow]

+1 on the 513X2B. Great saw. Comes with extra goodies, too, like the steel fence rail - I'll take steel over aluminum any day. Can't imagine anything stopping the blade any faster than this motor brake. Can't speak to the other benefits cited for a foot brake, though.

[Maik Tobin]

The 513X2B is on backorder until late December, but I got an email late in the day from a tech support guy that I have been dealing with that he will waive shipping and liftgate charges. At $1,050 delivered, I can not go wrong. My only issue may be that if we are up our gizzard in snow by then, the beast may have to winter in my garage until I can get it down the bulkhead. I considered the 18 inch Rikon, but it is just to big and heavy to deal with. The new 16 inch Rikon is available from a few places for $1,099 plus shipping.
I have no idea if the 514 is on backlog...

Why are these choices always so tough?

[Van Huskey]

Why are these choices always so tough?

I dunno but bandsaws may be the worst for hobby machines. There are tons of different ones from the $500 through the $4000 mark that are sized to fit in hobby shops and quite frankly most are good to excellent machines and a lot of them are good values. Further, it is a machine where it is easy to get budget creep, because there always seems to be another saw just $100-200 more that has an extra interesting feature or is a size up. The 513 series are excellent values and a nice sweet spot in size if you have to wrangle the saw either initially or on a regular basis. My only complaint is the lack of foot brake availability but it isn't just Grizzly it is pretty much ever saw up to near the $1500 price point. Given the deal you were offered IF you are willing to wait I think you have your winner.

[Kent E. Matthew]

I just went thru the same ordeal. Which BS? I read pretty much every thread here and on other forums and it just got so confusing my hair was a hurtin'. So, I called the local Woodcraft and ordered the Rikon 10-345 while its on sale. They called yesterday and said it was in. Now I have to figure out how to get it into the shop but the "which one" decision is over. Read all you want but it comes down to "just do it". They are all good saws.

Good luck,

Scott

Were you responsible for any shipping costs? How long of a wait? I myself am considering getting the Rikon.

[Scott Dodd]

Were you responsible for any shipping costs? How long of a wait? I myself am considering getting the Rikon.

No shipping costs but I did pay sales tax ($1069 total) and I have to drive to the store to pick it up. It took less than a week from order date until they called and said it had arrived.

Scott

[Dave MacArthur]

I've 100% with Van Huskey and Cary Falk, I like the 513x2 over the 513x2B--don't think I'd pay for the motor brake.

And I REALLY like the 514x2 with the footbrake, I'd much rather have the footbrake than the motor brake. There's a thread about those two around here somewhere, but for me I want to be able to shut the saw off from standing anywhere around it (I feed from front/side/back sometimes), I want to keep both hands firmly on the work WITHOUT MOVING THEM until the saw is off. I don't like pulling my hand away from the blade and looking at something else (off sw)... just not a good safety workflow. I'm a big fan of the foot brakes.

The Rikons sound good, and the current 18" price is really great. But I still think the 514x2 with the rack/pinion table support and tilt is the optimal sweet spot for great saw, still good value.

[John Coloccia]

For what it's worth, I don't see any reason you can't easily add a foot switch to the 514X2B to kill the saw. You simply need to interrupt the power to the coil on the magnetic switch. It would be about 15 minutes worth of work. I would personally get the type of break you like (I'm kind of starting to wish I'd gone for the electric brake) and worry about the little details later.

[Van Huskey]

For what it's worth, I don't see any reason you can't easily add a foot switch to the 514X2B to kill the saw. You simply need to interrupt the power to the coil on the magnetic switch. It would be about 15 minutes worth of work. I would personally get the type of break you like (I'm kind of starting to wish I'd gone for the electric brake) and worry about the little details later.


I was thinking about this last night. The micro-switches attached to the foot brakes work via relay no? You could use a simple power interruption switch but the wiring and switch would all have to be rated for the full current draw of the saw. I certainly don't know enough to do it myself without research or help but it certainly should be doable.

[Maik Tobin]

Well, for what it's worth, I just pulled the trigger on a 513X2B. It's on backorder til end of December, but I am in no hurry. The sale price coupled with free shipping (including liftgate) made it a no brainer. Now I just hope we don't get a pile of snow in December. If we do, the saw will have to wait until I can get it down my bulkhead.

[John Coloccia]

I was thinking about this last night. The micro-switches attached to the foot brakes work via relay no? You could use a simple power interruption switch but the wiring and switch would all have to be rated for the full current draw of the saw. I certainly don't know enough to do it myself without research or help but it certainly should be doable.

Actually, all you need to interrupt is the coil to the magnetic switch. The way it works is hitting the on button closes a contact that energizes a relay coil. That closes the main circuit that provides power to the power tool AND to the coil as well (to keep the relay closed). When power is interrupted to the coil, either because you hit off, chop it with a footswitch/microswitch, or because the whole saw looses power, the relay opens. You only need to interrupt the relay's coil, which is probably on the order of 1A or so, to kill the whole saw.

This comes up often enough as a minus of the electric brake that I'm surprised Grizzly doesn't just provide a little footswitch kit. Footswitch, wire, and a picture of the new wiring would do it.

[Paul Johnstone]

I'm kind of surprised that so many people turn off the bandsaw without making a through cut, and thus there is a need to be able to turn off the BS while having both hands on the wood. I'm not criticizing that, but I've never run into that situation.. A few times, I've gotten in trouble on a curved cut, but I either back it out or cut through on the waste side.

[John Coloccia]

You know where that happens a lot is when you're working on the inside of a curve. You can't turn hard enough to stay outside your line and you need to be able to steady the work so you don't damage it as the saw spins down before you back out the cut. It's just more convenient with a foot brake. I use my foot brake quite often, actually. It's also nice to be able to have your hands firmly grasping something until the saw's stopped. Keeps me from stupidly reaching where I shouldn't be in a moment of idiocy or when I end up in an awkward position because I didn't think ahead.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me to not have a foot switch to stop it, but i would never have a larger band saw without a brake of some kind. It takes forever and a day for some of these saws to spin down. I think my G0514X2 takes more than 30 seconds. My local lumber yard has an old Oliver and I remember that thing taking minutes....LOTS of minutes...to slow down.

[Van Huskey]

Actually, all you need to interrupt is the coil to the magnetic switch. The way it works is hitting the on button closes a contact that energizes a relay coil. That closes the main circuit that provides power to the power tool AND to the coil as well (to keep the relay closed). When power is interrupted to the coil, either because you hit off, chop it with a footswitch/microswitch, or because the whole saw looses power, the relay opens. You only need to interrupt the relay's coil, which is probably on the order of 1A or so, to kill the whole saw.

This comes up often enough as a minus of the electric brake that I'm surprised Grizzly doesn't just provide a little footswitch kit. Footswitch, wire, and a picture of the new wiring would do it.


So basically the relay is already in place and all you have to do is momentarily cut the power (is it low voltage or just low current full 220V?) and the mag switch cuts off and due to the design does not cut back on? Not understanding a mag switch in detail is what prevented me from understanding the parts are already there... Thanks!

[Van Huskey]

I'm kind of surprised that so many people turn off the bandsaw without making a through cut, and thus there is a need to be able to turn off the BS while having both hands on the wood. I'm not criticizing that, but I've never run into that situation.. A few times, I've gotten in trouble on a curved cut, but I either back it out or cut through on the waste side.


John covered the curve issues, but beyond the practical there is safety and although it comes up once in a blue moon, thankfully, it is nice to be able to stop the blade from any position with no hand movement. On the practical side I have used the foot brake while cutting veneer out of a large board and things were going wonky and my position would have made it hard or impossible to use the main switch because of my position and the need for both hands on the material. The convenience factor is actually not THAT big a deal but I see the safety factor as being huge in the rare instance you need it. After years of having foot brakes I will no longer have a BS in my shop that doesn't have a hands free brake, John's idea of a foot operated motor brake would suit me fine as well. This has limited applications though as Grizzly is the only manufacturer I know that has a motor brake option exclusive of a foot brake on hobby or small commercial sized saws, there may be some I have missed or outside the "hobby" world. I think the 513 series is the only Grizzly saw that has a motor brake option but no foot brake option.


On a similar note, how does a motor brake work. Is it all based on using it a generator (where does this current go?) or is it supplemented by a friction brake?

[Maik Tobin]

OK, so now that I have that decision made, the next step is blades. I was planning on ordering a couple of blades from Timberline. Anyone have any suggestions as to what widths I should buy? I was thinking of one thin (1/4 inch or so) and one thick (1 inch or so). Is there such a thing as a combo blade like the table saw?

[Van Huskey]

OK, so now that I have that decision made, the next step is blades. I was planning on ordering a couple of blades from Timberline. Anyone have any suggestions as to what widths I should buy? I was thinking of one thin (1/4 inch or so) and one thick (1 inch or so). Is there such a thing as a combo blade like the table saw?


You can start here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=149862&highlight=bandsaw


Also if you mean Timber Wolf blades I am one that is not a fan, even exclusive of quality, as silicon steel blades are usually false economy UNLESS you need a blade for a specific purpose that requires or is benefitted by their unique characteristics.

[John Coloccia]

J
On a similar note, how does a motor brake work. Is it all based on using it a generator (where does this current go?) or is it supplemented by a friction brake?

There's a number of different ways to do it. I'm not sure what Grizzly is doing but most of them slow the motor down by generating a decelerating magnetic field, either by putting a DC voltage across a winding, injecting an out of phase signal, etc. It's all electronic.

[John Coloccia]

I have this love/hate relationship with the Timberwolfs. When everything is dialed is, they cut beautifully and effortlessly. When it's not just right, they fight me the whole way. Maybe the low tension design just makes setting the tension and tracking just that much more critical. I don't know. I'll continue to use them but I also have a Woodslicer on order. The last Woodslicer I had is really just a superb resaw blade, especially for the price. If you have deep pockets, Lennox Trimasters are the cat's meow, or so I've heard :)

The one thing I would recommend is don't use 1" blades. It's really unnecessary, it puts more strain on the whole saw, they're difficult to install and remove, and generally the 3/4" and under blades are just that much more pleasant to work with. I've done respectable resawing, freehand, with 1/4" blades without much difficulty when I've been too lazy to change blades. I bet your saw would love a nice 1/2" Woodslicer to start with.