Lathe choice for beginner

[Mark Ashmeade]

All, I'd appreciate a little wisdom please:

I'm in the market for my first lathe. I'd like to buy new for my first lathe, the conventional wisdom seems to have been buy something like a Delta 1460 used, but I am not nearly proficient enough at changing bearings and the like to take that route yet. Also, the odd one that comes up on CL tends to be much further north than where I am in GA. Like PA!

So, I think I want a mini/midi lathe to get going with, which can be inexpensively extended to do things like table legs. Bowls interest me, but less so smaller items like pens.

The two models I have seen are both Jets, the 1014 and the 1220. The 1014 can be had with VS, for almost the same money as the 1220. However, the 1220 can turn bigger bowls, and is more substantial. I think if I got the 1220, I would be Ok with that for a number of years, with a bed extension a year or so down the road. However, the VS model of the 1220 would run me about $250 more, and that makes it unaffordable. The 1014 can be had for $350, the 1220 for $379. The $29 difference is immaterial, but I do not know which way to judge the VS feature on the 1014 vs the extra capacity & weight of the 1220.

Or is there a different approach I could take for the same kind of outlay?

Many thanks in advance.

[Mike Cruz]

I've got a 1460 that doesn't need any work and I'm a LOT closer to you than PA...I'm in northwest Maryland! :D

Mark there are some recent threads about the same subject. Rather than rewriting my thoughts on it, see what I wrote...it was only a couple days ago. Good luck with your lathe purchase. And welcome!

[Dan Hintz]

If a $250 increase in price puts it out of your price range, I have to ask... have you budgeted turning tools, chucks, etc.? If not, that $250 is gone in a heartbeat when you add that stuff in. You can't turn with a screwdriver as a gouge (though I think Mike tried once... tennis elbow... phsaw! :p)

[Gordon Seto]

Don't overlook the major advantage of the 1220VS (not the 1014 VS) is its minimum rpm of 200 instead of 500 on the manual speed model. The slower rpm would allow you to safely turn slightly unbalanced blanks, off center turning. At that price range, you may also want to look at the new Delta 12.5 inch VS.
With the slower rpm, I think it would serve you well till you want larger capacity.

[Mike Cruz]

Dan is right (about burning through $250 EASILY after getting your lathe) but wrong about be using a screwdriver as a gouge...I used it as a skew! :D Just kidding, I never used a screwdriver as a lathe tool...don't try it!

[Bernie Weishapl]

If you are looking at the Jet I would look at the Jet 1220 VS. It has a little more heft to it and the lower speed is better for turning out of balance blanks for bowls. I would also look at the Delta 46-460 VS with a bigger motor (1 hp) reverse for sanding. It is a nice smooth machine.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Thanks all.

I'm not quite that naive.. the $250 difference between the 1220 and the 1220VS IS the tools and chucks etc! If I were to go with the 1220VS and add the tools, then it becomes unaffordable.

I see this as a $5-600 exercise to initially get into turning. I don't want it to be a $1000 mistake :)

[Gordon Seto]

Don't rush into buying the chuck yet. It is a convenience item. Even you have several chucks and jaws, you still need to use the alternate methods, such as glue blocks, jam chucks. Learn to use the faceplate etc. first.
Spend as much money you can afford on the lathe. If the lathe is vibrating, you won't enjoy turning. I believe that may be the reason why turners upgrade so often. Each time you upgrade your lathe, you will lose a lot of money.
I am not saying you can make a living from turning. You may want to consider making some easy projects from kits, and sell them to friends and co-workers to augment your tool fund in the future.
The Jet and the new Delta have 5 years warranty. Even they don't have large swings, but they are enjoyable to use. Unlike the older Reeves drive variable speed lathes, they are low maintenance and run much smoother.

[Kevin Stanbary]

I bought a Jet 1220VS last February with part of my tax refund from last year. So far I've been very happy with it and haven't wanted to do anything with it it couldn't do... I don't have a lot to compare it to - my turning experience to that point consisted of making a small finial on my brother's antique Craftsman lathe and the ones I used in Junior High School woodshop class. The only thing I really remember about those is that they either didn't have live centers in the tailstock, or they were frozen; each lathe had an oil can next to it and you had to keep applying oil to where the spinning piece met the tailstock. :eek:

I started out thinking I would get the Jet 1014VS until I noticed that the non-vs 1220 was almost the same price. Kicked it around for a few days trying to decide between vs and the bigger lathe and finally my wife told me to spend the extra $250 and get the 1220VS. :D I haven't regretted it...

[Doug Thompson]

I just got a 1220VS a month ago and was totally surprised how well it ran for a "mini". Right now Jet/Powermatic has a sale going on... Email me if you want to know where to get the best price... I can't say it online.

Doug
440-241-6360

[Bill Bulloch]

When I started out I bought the Jet 1014 used at an auction. Then, I bought a set of turning tools for $85.00 (the brand name was Steel, I think), still got them and they are good tools. Later I picked up a used chuck off ebay ($45.00). So, I got started for cheap to see if turning was for me.

Well, it was and three months later I picked up a new Jet 1236 at the same auction. Then a year latter the Delta 46-460, and then sold the Jet 1014 for the same price that I had bought it for. Last month I bought a Delta 46-755X used off ebay. No telling how much money I have tied up on tools and chucks and I have only been turning for two years.

It's a good thing to start this hobby with caution. Lathes and tools cost a lot of money, and turning is not for everyone. The guy that I bought the Delta 45-755X from had paid $2300.00 for it, only to use it about 10 times before he found out that turning was not for him. He sold the lathe for $800.00. That was an expensive learning experience for him.

I recommend that you check on Craigslist and try to find a used lathe to start out with. I checked Craigslist for Georgia and the surrounding states last month when I was looking for a used lathe and found over 50 Craftmen Lathes for sale for between $40 and $300 -- a lot in the $100.00 -- $200.00 range. These are not the best lathes you can buy, but a 2HP, 15" swing lathe is a nice lathe to start out with. Some members in out turning club have been turning on them for years.

[Gordon Seto]

[QUOTE=Bill Bulloch;1555335] 50 Craftmen Lathes for sale ... but a 2HP, 15" swing lathe is a nice lathe to start out with. [QUOTE]


Be careful. Ask Bernie. You don't want the model private labeled by Palmgren. They have tons of trouble brand new.

[Don Alexander]

if you are looking a mini/midi lathes and money is pretty tight you should at least check out the Rikon VS on sale at Woodcraft right now for $279

i have the manual Rikon and its been a great little lathe have made a 10" bowl on it and no problems at all though i do round my blanks on the bandsaw before i turn them to get them alot closer to balanced

also turned a pretty heavy unbalanced blank of oak burl approx 9" dia and 8" tall also worked well

my lathe is mounted on a workbench that i made out of an oak commercial door ( read HEAVY) bench is fastend to the walls in 1 corner of my shop and screwed to the floor as well anything that fits on the lathe can be turned without the lathe bouncing around with this setup

as Dan said theres no point having a more expensive lathe and having to try to turn with a screwdriver

[George Guadiane]

If a $250 increase in price puts it out of your price range, I have to ask... have you budgeted turning tools, chucks, etc.? If not, that $250 is gone in a heartbeat when you add that stuff in. You can't turn with a screwdriver as a gouge (though I think Mike tried once... tennis elbow... phsaw! :p)
A screwdriver won't make a gouge, but I use them as scrapers pretty much every time I turn. If it's harder than the wood and you can get an edge on it, you can turn with it... Not that I advise it, but you can.

I have a PM3520 (Mustard Monster)... I'm going to get a Delta 46-460 as my demo lathe. If that lathe had been my first lathe, I might never have gotten a bigger one. If you can spare the coin, that would be MY strongest recommendation.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Mark, If I had to choose between VS and larger turning dia. I will take VS every time. My first lathe, a Jet 1442, was a great lathe but the absence of VS presented a number of challenges that had to be overcome. I believe a new lathe like you are looking at is the way to go. Some folks try used and sacrifice features and quality only to end up discouraged and leave the hobby frustrated. While there are considerable other costs, wood should never be one of those costs, especially for a new turner. Wood can be had for free almost everywhere but the desert and even in the desert there are limited resources. Just my experience. I hope it helps you.:)

[Bernie Weishapl]

Gordon is right. I had the C-man 15" and it is junk period. I bought one brand new and it was made by Palmgren. I spent more time fixing it than turning. In the first year I turned on it maybe 3 months total and the rest of the time it was down and always waiting parts. The 3 belts on this unit you cannot buy any other place but Craftsman or Palmgren. If money is a issue I would look at the Rikon midi with a 12" swing or the Jet 1220 in which you will have to change belts which actually is no big deal. My Rikon I can change the belt in about 30 seconds or so.

[Gordon Seto]

Bernie, the sad part was you are not alone. 10 or so Creekers who had that lathe all reported to have multiple problems.
I think Woodcraft has the new Rikon Variable Speed for $280 on Black Friday is a good bargain. The manual version has proven to be a reliable mdi lathe. The VS is brand new unknown. With the Woodcraft 90 days satisfaction guarantee and the Rikon service, I think it is worth a trial.

[JerHall]

Mark,

I teach beginning turning a lot and tried to come up with a minimum budget in response to a lot of questions from students. The budget is based on the Rikon Model 70-100 12" Mini Lathe. The article and budget I wrote in Google Docs follows, and may need some updating. Hope this article helps:
https://docs.google.com/View?docID=adv8f4kvqjnq_148g682k7hc&revision=_latest

I really don't think you can do it for much less than $700 total. If you can possibly work the Delta 46-460 into your budget you will have a sweet system for $1000.

Jerry

[Mark Ashmeade]

An update -

After the advice re the Delta 46-460, I looked into that, and it seems that is the lathe for me. With the exception of outboard turning, it has all the features I would find desirable, and nobody seems to have a bad word to say about it. So I was contemplating buying one of those, but still had my eye on Craigslist to see if something came up.

Well lo and behold, there was a listing today from a guy with a Rikon 70-100, and a Delta 46-715. $150 on the Rikon, $300 on the Delta. I went down there tonight, and had a look. I read up about the Delta, and the main beef was with the Reeves drive. It appears there are three versions of it, Types 1, 2 and 3. Type 2 allegedly resolved the early issues, and is the one to get, if not a type 3. Well this one was a type 2, and when powered up on a low speed, there was plenty of vibration. I've had vibration in a bandsaw before, and it drove me crazy. When I got a better bandsaw, it was like night and day. So, scratch the Delta 46-715, although I was impressed with its bulk.

The Rikon was a heavy little beast, and at $150 in good condition, I couldn't go wrong. It is now sitting in my shop, waiting for the chisels I ordered to turn up on Friday. I'll spend the time cleaning it up a little.

One thing I only noticed when I got home is that it's missing the faceplate. It does have the spur, but no face plate. As I only intend to keep this guy for 6-12 months, prior to replacing it with the 46-460, I'm thinking perhaps I might get a chuck for it as opposed to a faceplate, as I could use that on the subsequent 46-460, and the cost of the chuck would be easier to absorb in say January as opposed to adding it to the $600 capital cost of the Delta at the same time. A question - does the Delta need the Delta brand chuck, or would any chuck suffice? I'm thinking the reverse action of the lathe may have some bearing, but then again, perhaps not. The OEM Delta chuck is pretty costly at $160 or so, when others can be had around the $100 mark.

As it goes, the older guy I bought the Rikon from was selling these two, as he had bought a 46-460! I asked him to run the beast for me, and wow, it was super smooth. So I am a happy bunny. I can get into turning for reasonable money, acquire the accoutrements over the next few months, and then get a sweet lathe next year, and probably still be able to get out of the Rikon for what I paid for it.

Thanks to all for their advice, and particularly Jerry Hall, it seems I may end up with both the models you recommend!

[Michael James]

I went with the Delta 46-460 after about 10 months on a cast iron HF mini. I kept looking at cheaper alternatives, but the feedback I was getting is "stay with it". So I did.
Now, I don't have any photo proof of this *yet", so it didn't happen, but is happening and should debut this weekend if the honeydo's don't bog me down. In my delusional state I consider it a sweet upgrade! :p

[Mike Cruz]

Rikon lathe? What Rikon lathe? No pics didn't happen...:rolleyes:

I suggest you get some pics up really quickly before you get a dozen posts like this one... ;) HURRY!

[Clint Baxter]

<One thing I only noticed when I got home is that it's missing the faceplate. It does have the spur, but no face plate. As I only intend to keep this guy for 6-12 months, prior to replacing it with the 46-460, I'm thinking perhaps I might get a chuck for it as opposed to a faceplate, as I could use that on the subsequent 46-460, and the cost of the chuck would be easier to absorb in say January as opposed to adding it to the $600 capital cost of the Delta at the same time. A question - does the Delta need the Delta brand chuck, or would any chuck suffice? I'm thinking the reverse action of the lathe may have some bearing, but then again, perhaps not. The OEM Delta chuck is pretty costly at $160 or so, when others can be had around the $100 mark.>

I've got a 46-460, (one that I need to sell with plenty of accessories), and have a Nova G3-Delta chuck for it. Any chuck with a 1"-8TPI will work with this lathe. As long as the chuck you pick up either comes in that size, or has interchangeable inserts, you should be able to use it when you get a 46-460.

Good luck with your new, (to you), Rikon. Hope you can get your 46-460 soon.

Clint

[Bill Blasic]

I have both the Jet 1220 VS and the Delta 46-460 and as I stated in the article I wrote for Woodturning Design Magazine comparing the two that they are both great lathes. I will keep both but if I could only have one it would be the 46-460 without hesitation.
Bill

[Prashun Patel]

Mark,

I'm pretty new to turning. I have the Delta 46-460. I suggest you keep yr Rikon as long as poss b4 upgrading. You might decide you want a full size lathe at that point.

The 46-460 takes a 1"x8tpi spindle, and has a 5/8" tool post. Full size lathes might have larger spindles and a larger tool post. So, beware of these facts when you buy accessories.

I do think a good scroll chuck is essential. A faceplate is good for the outside turning of a bowl, but you'll need a chuck to turn the inside. Scroll chucks also usually come with a screw that can take the place of a faceplate on some turnings.

When you shop for a chuck, know that the hidden cost is other 'jaws' you might want to eventually purchase which allow you to hold bigger or smaller items more aggressively or more delicately. Each of these can easily cost you $50 a pop...

[Wally Dickerman]

If you can find a way to squeeze out the extra bucks for a 12 in. VS, I urge you to do it. If you don't, later on you'll wish that you had. The VS is so much better than belt changing. A 10 inch swing is okay for a lot of folks but it's very limiting. The largest bowl you can turn is about 9.5 inches.

A chuck has been mentioned as a necessary extra expense. It isn't. You can get by just fine without it. The 4-jaw scroll chuck that most turners rely on didn't exist before about 1990. We did a lot of turning without it before that.

Wally