Craftsman Bandsaw Motor Problem - Model 22401 [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Don Bullock

11-08-2010, 10:39 PM

My bandsaw won't run. :( The motor capacitor or something else connected with the motor went out on my 14" Craftsman bandsaw (Model #22401) and I'm not sure how to repair it. Since it will be needed soon I will have to get it repaired. I know that there are several others here on SMC with the same saw. Has anyone else experienced issues with the motor on their bandsaw?

Other than that I found the saw adequate for the jobs I asked it to do.

Lee Schierer

11-09-2010, 1:08 PM

If the motor just hums when you turn the switch on it is likely the capacitor has failed. They are less than $20. Take your motor to a local motor repair shop. They can test it and the capacitor. If you can open the guard and spin the lower wheel with the blade off and the motor runs, it is definitely the capacitor.

If you don't hear anything when you turn on the switch, check the circuit with a voltmeter. You may also want to check the on/off switch as that may have failed. Sometimes the plugs fail if you pull them out by the cord.

Don Bullock

11-09-2010, 5:42 PM

Lee, thanks for the information. You are correct, the capacitor has failed. Now I need to find a place that sells large capacitors. According to the Sears parts list for this saw the motor/capacitor assembly is all one part.

Anyone have any ideas where to start to find a capacitor for this saw. At least the numbers on the old one are all visible so I have the information I need. Unfortunately my father's knowledge in electronics wasn't something I ever understood.

Charles Lent

11-09-2010, 7:28 PM

If the motor hums but doesn't start it could be the capacitor or it could be the centrifugal switch inside the motor. If the switch sticks and doesn't re-connect the capacitor when the motor shuts off it will prevent the motor from starting next time. It's quite easy to repair these, as more often than not it is binding on the motor shaft and needs cleaning and lubrication.

To fix it:
1. Remove the motor from the saw.
2. Remove the 4 long bolts that hold the ends of the motor on.
3. Use a screwdriver and a mallet to separate the back end of the motor from the center section. A few taps are all it should take.
4. Pull the motor end cover back carefully, being very careful not to damage the wiring or mis-place the large shim washers that position the motor bearing.
5. Inside the motor around the shaft you should find a plastic ring and a spring/weight assembly. You should be able to push this plastic ring toward the center of the motor and have it return when you release the pressure. Any dirt or debris on the shaft where the plastic piece slides will cause problems. Clean this area and apply a very thin film of lubricating oil to this part of the shaft.
6. The switch assembly is located inside the end of the motor. The switch contacts need to be clean and touching together with the motor in this configuration. Check to see that they are touching together.
7. Re-assemble the motor being careful not to mis-position the bearing spacer washers or pinch the wires.
8. Install the 4 long bolts and tighten them.
9. Plug in and turn on the motor to be sure that it works correctly. Turn it on and then off, each time letting it reach full speed. While it is off and slowing down, listen for the click of the centrifugal switch closing.
10. Re-install the motor in the saw.

If you need a capacitor or help in repairing the motor, find a motor repair/rewinding shop in the Yellow Pages. They will help you at a price that's likely much lower than Sears.

Bill Bukovec

11-09-2010, 9:02 PM

I got my last motor capacitor at Grainger.

They will ask you what size it is in microfarads. This should be on the cap, abbreviated "ufd." (The first letter is not a "U", it's actually a micro symbol).

Please let us know when you have it fixed.

Bill

Don Bullock

11-09-2010, 11:01 PM

If the motor hums but doesn't start it could be the capacitor or it could be the centrifugal switch inside the motor. ...
If you need a capacitor or help in repairing the motor, find a motor repair/rewinding shop in the Yellow Pages. They will help you at a price that's likely much lower than Sears.

Charles, The capacitor is literally fried. Hopefully that wasn't caused by the motor or the centrifugal switch. I appreciate your detailed instructions. If installing a new capacitor works I won't need them. I'm going to replace the capacitor first (if I can find one that will fit) first and see what happens.

Anyone would be cheaper than Sears! The bill to repair the bandsaw would have been close to $400. I only paid $429 for the saw.

I got my last motor capacitor at Grainger.

...
Please let us know when you have it fixed.

Bill

Bill, thanks for the information. I just discovered that we have Grainger "branches" in Southern California. There is one fairly close to me. I'll give them a call tomorrow. I'll sure let you know if I get the saw running.

No, I'm not very happy with Sears or Craftsman Tools and I won't be buying anymore of their stationary power tools. It's too bad because this saw does most of the jobs I need a bandsaw for. Sure, I "should have" bought a Grizzly or Powermatic or Jet or ... but I didn't have the money then. Now that I'm retired I have even less. I was hoping to be able to save some money so I could "afford" a second bandsaw for resawing, but I may end up having to replace the one I have. Just the motor/capacitor unit is about $200 from their parts warehouse when a capacitor would cost me less than $20. It's ridiculous.:(

Curt Harms

11-10-2010, 7:36 AM

....................
Bill, thanks for the information. I just discovered that we have Grainger "branches" in Southern California. There is one fairly close to me. I'll give them a call tomorrow. I'll sure let you know if I get the saw running.
..................

I don't know about Grainger in CA. but the one near me only sells to businesses. They didn't check to see how large the "business" was or if it really existed. If they ask, You might tell 'em something like Bullock Enterprises and pay cash if they'll let you. If Grainger gives you grief, McMaster-Carr sells capacitors as well though that's likely mail order.

Thomas Delpizzo

11-11-2010, 5:28 PM

How about bringing it to the sears repair center? It may cost you about $100. Still cheaper than getting a new motor.

Charles Lent

11-11-2010, 6:02 PM

If you are sure that the capacitor is fried, you have likely seen telltale evidence
of the "frying", so you will need a new capacitor. There is a size rating on the side of it that should be a number followed by "MFD" plus a voltage rating followed by VAC. You will need both of these to get the right replacement capacitor. Also make sure that the replacement is the same physical size or you won't be able to get it into the metal can on the side of the motor. If it will fit and is the same electrical size you are good to go. Replace the capacitor and see if that cures your problem. If not, use my directions to service the centrifugal switch. Be sure to make several short test cycles before putting it back into service. A capacitor for that size motor should not cost more than $20 and will likely be less from the right source. A motor repair shop or an industrial supplier like Grainger will be the best source, but the motor shop usually charges less.

Charley

Don Bullock

11-11-2010, 7:56 PM

How about bringing it to the sears repair center? It may cost you about $100. Still cheaper than getting a new motor.

Thomas, the official reply from Sears is that they only have the motor with capacitor attached for about $200. They will not install the capacitor by itself nor do they stock it separately. It's all or nothing and at that price I'm having to look elsewhere.

If you are sure that the capacitor is fried, you have likely seen telltale evidence
of the "frying", so you will need a new capacitor. ...
Charley

Charles, the capacitor is definitely melted at the end where the two wires come out. Fortunately the numbers are all visible. Today I spent several hours searching the Internet for a replacement, but haven't found one the "right" size as you suggested. I may have to buy a larger one that I have found and make an enclosure for it out of PVC pipe and attach it to the plastic box that is supposed to house the capacitor. Right now that seems to be my best option, but I'm waiting for some replies from some other companies.

Charles Lent

11-12-2010, 9:40 AM

Don Bullock

11-12-2010, 11:32 AM

Curt Harms

11-13-2010, 6:25 AM

Charley, thanks for the information on voltage. That's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. I'll check for motor repair shops. There are some industrial businesses fairly close to me though I do live in a rural area.

If you have to go the mail order route, McMaster-Carr has a reputation for pretty quick shipping. For me in S.E. PA. it's overnight paying regular (reasonable) shipping rates
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/937/=9p66ar

Don Bullock

11-13-2010, 11:07 AM

If you have to go the mail order route, McMaster-Carr has a reputation for pretty quick shipping. For me in S.E. PA. it's overnight paying regular (reasonable) shipping rates
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/937/=9p66ar

Curt, thanks for the link. I had already contacted McMaster-Carr and they informed me that they didn't have one that fit my needs. Their capacitors stop at 440 Volt AC and the dimensions are too big for the space. Perhaps I could get by with the 440 VAC instead of 450, but the size is too big. I also struck out at Grainger.

Like I said in another post this is my best option so far:

I may have to buy a larger one that I have found and make an enclosure for it out of PVC pipe and attach it to the plastic box that is supposed to house the capacitor. Right now that seems to be my best option, but I'm waiting for some replies from some other companies.

I have found a company with a capacitor with the right specs that's longer than the box on the saw motor. I'm sure that that I can use some PVC pipe to either extend the box or just mount a whole new enclosure for the capacitor on top of the box.

Right now I'm waiting for a reply from someone on eBay that sells capacitors who claims he has one with the right specs and size. I haven't had time to explore the motor repair shops yet. I'll do that next week.

This whole situation is very frustrating. If I had a Grizzly, for example, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Their service reps even searched their stock to see if they could find a capacitor that would fit my Craftsman bandsaw. I see a Grizzly bandsaw in my future.;)

glenn bradley

11-13-2010, 12:06 PM

No, I'm not very happy with Sears or Craftsman Tools and I won't be buying anymore of their stationary power tools.

Just for clarification, we all know Sears doesn't make that saw, right? ;) Glad you are having good luck in locating a cap. Sears sure isn't winning and friends by not stocking the cap as a part :(

Curt Harms

11-13-2010, 4:41 PM

Curt, thanks for the link. I had already contacted McMaster-Carr and they informed me that they didn't have one that fit my needs. Their capacitors stop at 440 Volt AC and the dimensions are too big for the space. Perhaps I could get by with the 440 VAC instead of 450, but the size is too big. I also struck out at Grainger.

440 volts????!! What motor do you have on that saw? It should be 120/240 I'd think.

Will Overton

11-13-2010, 4:55 PM

I'm not sure, but I think he's confusing the mfd rating with the voltage. That would account for all the trouble he's having.

Jim O'Dell

11-13-2010, 6:01 PM

Don, why don't you post a picture of the capacitor and type out the numbers and the physical size. Maybe one of us can hunt one down for you. I got one for a sprinkler pump motor one time at Grainger. They didn't have any trouble matching one up. Jim.

edit: Check here to see if you see the right numbers and size. http://www.mcmaster.com/#motor-capacitors/=9pf5mz

Dave Beauchesne

11-13-2010, 6:26 PM

The capacitor size in MFD can vary slightly, like plus or minus about 15% of the rating. The voltage rating can be higher on the replacement, but not lower than the original. Make sure what you find is rated for AC voltage (VAC) and not for DC. I'm sure that you can find on in the right physical size if you go to a motor repair shop. There are motor shops in most of the larger cities. Look in the Yellow Pages for one near you. Take the old capacitor with you and they'll find you one that will work.

Charley

To clarify a bit, the start capacitor can be + 20%, - 0 % in the microfarad rating, the voltage has to equal or exceed the original rating.

So a 256 mfd x 250 volt capacitor could be up to 300 mfd and as long as the voltage rating is 250 volts or higher, it is OK.

As the ratings, particularily voltage ratings rise, the capacitor body increases in size, so that is a consideration.

Best of luck - Dave Beauchesne

Will Overton

11-13-2010, 7:37 PM

Hmmm

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/377701/1688733/0/1132839482.jpg (http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/377701/1688733/0/1132839482.jpg)

This was mentioned in an old thread, on another forum, about the same saw problem.

Myk Rian

11-13-2010, 10:06 PM

Get one with a lower voltage rating @ 30 mfd.

John Aperahama

11-13-2010, 11:58 PM

You might try Rikon it is essentially the same bandsaw

Don Bullock

11-14-2010, 11:30 PM

John, that's a great idea. I'm not encouraged, however, because the parts list and exploded view on their 14" Deluxe Bandsaw are exactly the same as the Craftsman 14" that I have. The parts list with the drawing doesn't list the capacitor as a separate part. While I know the band saws are very similar and perhaps made in the same factory I wonder if the motors are. If the drawings are any indication they are. I have emailed their tech support so we'll see what they say. Perhaps I can get them to at least help me find a capacitor. All I can get out of Sears Parts Department is form emails to, "Dear Valued Customer,".

Will, I know that I'm not the first one with this problem. That capacitor you posted is similar to the one I have in rating. Mine is marked 50uF instead of 30 and it's outer shell is plastic. The one in your picture looks like it might fit, but it's hard to tell because there is nothing other than the terminals that gives any indication of actual size.

Jim, the one I have is 5o uF, 450 Volt AC, 50/60 Hz. The maximum dimensions are approximately 1 7/8" in diameter and 3 3/4" long or tall. As Dave stated the size goes up in relation to the voltage. That seems to be where the problem is for me. I can't find a small enough capacitor with high enough specs.

Glenn, no, sears didn't actually make the saw, but they sell it. They were the ones to make the decision not to sell parts separately. As for them not winning friends, I'm actually hoping that others here take note and check parts lists when they purchase equipment and check the availability of parts that might fail. It's interesting that Sears claims how "Green" they have become and then they do things like requiring a whole motor to be replaced instead of a failed part. BTW -- This isn't just limited to my model band saw. A Sears Qualified Technician told me that they do it on a lot of their motors, including an air conditioner that he had just serviced.

mreza Salav

11-14-2010, 11:53 PM

Don

I have that saw and so far haven't needed to replace anything.
The cap you listed has a fairly standard specs. Have you checked electrical supplies?

For example, surpluscenter has many different sizes and some of them have very similar specs and are only a few bucks:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?search=capacitor&PAGELEN=20&PageNo=4

If they don't fit inside the casing you can bring the wires out I suppose and attach it to the body of the motor.

scott spencer

11-15-2010, 5:02 AM

Don - Many capacitors are + or - 20%, so an exact match of the capacitance isn't critical if you're struggling to find the correct value. A filter cap from an old tube amplifier might work well. Have you checked Ebay?

Charles Lent

11-15-2010, 8:29 AM

He needs a capacitor with an AC voltage rating. A capacitor from an old amplifier won't help him. They are DC voltage rated and will explode if he tries to use one of them.

Charley

Rod Sheridan

11-15-2010, 8:48 AM

Glenn, you can use a lower voltage cap in that application.

The start winding is 120 volts regardless of whether the motor is strapped for 120 volts or 240 volts.

A capacitor with a 370VAC rating for example would be fine, as would on with a rating of 280 VAC.

If you want a good capacitor, replace the cheap bipolar electrolytic with an oil filled motor run capacitor. They'll last your lifetime, however they will be larger and you'll have to mount them in an electrical box on the motor.

Regards, Rod.

Ken Fitzgerald

11-15-2010, 9:34 AM

Don,

Check around for a motor repair shop and consider taking the motor to them.

It's possible that the centrifugal switch is stuck closed and that's what caused the capacitor to go bad.

The same shop may have a capacitor they will sell you even if you elect to not let them work on the motor.

That value of capacitor shouldn't be difficult to find if you have an electrical supply house locally.

scott spencer

11-15-2010, 10:27 AM

He needs a capacitor with an AC voltage rating. A capacitor from an old amplifier won't help him. They are DC voltage rated and will explode if he tries to use one of them.

Charley

Most of the tube amp filter caps are 350v+, so AC or DC should handle the voltage for this application...new caps are still made for this application too...doesn't have to be old.

Don Bullock

11-15-2010, 11:00 AM

I have located a capacitor with the right specs except for length. What I'm attempting to do now is find one that will fit. If I don't find one today I'll purchase the one I found and use PVC pipe for an enclosure to attach to the box on the motor.

Mreza, yes I've checked many of the electrical supply places. The link you gave me didn't have the specific capacitor so I emailed the specs to their technical support. Thanks, but they didn't have a match.

Scott, yes, I have tried eBay. I started buying things off eBay before they even had seller/buyer ratings. One seller claims to have the right capacitor in stock, but won't verify it by sending me a picture and I wonder what condition it's in. He doesn't take returns and is charging more than double for the part. I'd rather buy the larger one that I found from an electronic supply "brick and mortar" store and construct a PVC enclosure for it.

Ken, you may be right about the centrifugal switch. Right now I'm trying to avoid removing the motor. I'm is a semi-rural area driving to the closest motor shop would take at least half an hour one way. I have so many different projects around here that driving around to electric motor shops is something I'd rather not do if I can avoid it.

Like I said before, it's just a very frustrating situation. My knowledge of electrical circuits and the mechanics of removing and replacing a motor on a band saw are nil. Fixing a lot of things around the house comes easy to me but this kind of problem I've never had any experience at. I greatly appreciate the help and support I've received here on SMC. Hopefully through this discussion others can avoid the same kind of problem.