Price for turning lessons. [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

David Peebles

11-07-2010, 1:21 AM

Hi John,

The first thing I do is invite them to our local club to see a demo. If they still want privite lessons I will do that.

I charge 100.00 for an 8 hr. day. I provide all the wood, tools and a nice lunch. They can turn on my Oneway 2436, my Jet mini or my homemade bowl lathe.

I cover safety, basic bowl turning, sharpening, design, finishing. and sanding. Or anything else they may be interested in.

Best wishes,

Dave

Joe Scarfo

11-07-2010, 5:06 AM

$10 - $15 per hour depending. This would get u basic safety, closely supervised turn time making pens or small bowls

Although im not good enough yet.... I have thought about this Segmented bowls or more complex stuff would carry different costs. Segmented bowls or larger vessels would involve chalk talk time explaining the theory behind what u want to do then close supervision to start the lathe work. After time you will just be answering questions and giving advise. This stuff would be charged by the project.

I am assuuming that the student does not have their own lathe to start and I would supply everything. Soon enough, as interest grows, I would ask they purch mandrels for pens and chucks for the bowls/vessels. That way my lathes are not out of action while they learn. Eventually they would pick up a lathe of their own.

I have thought this through but usually give lessons for free. Anyone can stop by anytime and we crank out pens.

I get a smile inside teaching others what others have taught me. But given I'm unemployed I have charged a few when they offered to pay.

Good luck

Ken Hill

11-07-2010, 5:22 AM

I wouldn't under value your time, materials and expierence. $100 for an 8 hour day with what you provide is way cheap IMO. $150 would be the basement price for some of you guys that have some seriously strong talent and expierence.

I would also say $150 for a day would be the cut off for alot of folks, any higher and they would be turned away (No pun intended!) Small groups at $100 wouldnt be bad, just watch the material costs.

Todays society doesnt have the time for a turning club en'mass....but a one day basics course or a private 1 on 1 deal would probably do very well. I know it would be for me to learn some of the higher end teachings on bowls/HF and such.

I know I charge 10 times that for 8 hours of instruction and field work with a camera....but my people are expecting to earn money with what they learn, I geuss that could be the same with turning however for me it would be purely educational and to save me money from that learning curve LOL!

Jack Mincey

11-07-2010, 5:58 AM

I haven't done any turning classes for pay yet, but have been a fishing guide for 25 years when I'm not teaching High School Shop. The going rate for a guided fishing trip is $225.00 for one person and $50.00 extra for a two person trip. We supply all the gear. I think for a total stranger to come to your shop for instruction some where in the $200.00 range would work for one person and maybe a little more if two want to team up. I would think of it this way. You are giving up your personal shop time for the lesson, so how much would you make from working on your own bowls for 8 hours. I sold a HF at a local gallery last month for a crazy high price. My hourly wage from this HF came out to around $92.00 per hour. If your time is like mine there just isn't much left to go around.
Jack

Andrew Kertesz

11-07-2010, 6:04 AM

I would think that if you are an experienced turner yet do not make your living from your shop insurance should be a consideration. There is a reason they are called "accidents"... Just my .02 cents even though I am nowhere near that level.

Gordon Seto

11-07-2010, 6:27 AM

With fastfood value meal already at $5, $100 per day with lunch provided is a bargain.

But I think that has to do with location, location & location. There are 3 main competitors:

Commercial - half or a full day classes from woodworking stores, such as Woodcraft, Rockler, Highland ...(starting around $50)

Schools or established teaching studios- John C Campbell, Arrowmont .....(ranging from $300 for a whole weekend to $600 for a week long class)

The local clubs have unfair advantage. I belong to two active local turning Clubs, each has over 100 members. They usually have turning classes for members every other month after meeting. One Club has 13 lathes, the other has 9. Each lathe station is equipped with full sets of turning tools, chuck. Each class usually charges $5 to cover the material. They used to be free, but too many people signed up and no show.
Besides classes, both Clubs also have mentoring programs. There are several experienced turners have open workshops. Members are willing to do that because of the AAW insurance coverage if the mentoring is part of the official Club activity.

Giving out classes for payment may expose yourself for extra liability risk. You have to add the cost of insurance premium first.

Bill Blasic

11-07-2010, 7:23 AM

Gordon,
You hit the nail on the head about insurance!
Bill

Josh Bowman

11-07-2010, 7:37 AM

John
I paid 80 bucks for a one on one at woodcraft. It was suppose to be 6 hours, but I tuckered out after 5. I felt it was a good deal. Used their tools and wood. Now having said that, I think the student should at least own a bowl gouge so he can learn to sharpen his own and get use to how his works. Hint-Hint, You could stock a few tools to sell also. I was certainly thankful that that woodcraft could guide me into what to use. They had several different grinds and sizes for me to try and I picked what worked for me.

Nate Davey

11-07-2010, 7:38 AM

Just for your reference, I paid $125 for a one day, 8hr, class from a local turner at one of the stores. This included everything, all I had to do was show up. Lunch was not included. Worth every penny IMHO.

Scott Hackler

11-07-2010, 10:26 AM

Everyones time is valuable, but if your not a professional turner (this is how you earn your living), I would be inclined to show someone the basics for free. I didn't have any help when I started out. Other than youtube videos and questions posted on here. I would have saved a lot of time and injurys had some experienced turner spent a few hours or a day with me and showed me the basics. To me, unless it gets out of hand, I would love to "pass along" the joy of woodturning to another who might not stay with it because of pure frustration.

Now any proprietary forms and processes wouldn't need to be shown, per se. But learning how to turn a proper bowl from start to finish will put a smile on any newbie turners face!

I am not an expert or professional, by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been approached by a few turning club members to "help them". To me its kinda flattering and maybe one day, if I become famous they can brag about shop time with Scott!

Reed Gray

11-07-2010, 11:34 AM

Professional shop time is in the $30 to $60 per hour range, which includes insurance. While I would like to be able to charge that much, it is out of range for most people. For now, I am looking for, as my martial arts instructor would say, "victims of circumstances". I have as much to learn about teaching as students do about turning. Most of the time I don't charge as I am a mentor for our local club. Last guy did take me out to lunch.

I will admit that seeing a student going out the door with a look on their face that translates as "now I understand that" is as much fun as the actual turning. Maybe I will start charging more.

robo hippy

Nate Davey

11-07-2010, 12:06 PM

When one teaches two learn.

Greg Just

11-07-2010, 12:24 PM

In this day of too many lawyers, (Sorry Mr. Keeton and any others out there) I would offer to do an informal demo and not charge anything. MAybe they could donate a gift card to Rockler or Woodcraft. If you are serious about becoming a teacher, then I would look into insurance coverage. I know that clubs affiliated with the AAW get coverage from their insurance - not don't think it would cover an individual member. I have had club member over in my shop and if there were an injury, my homeowners insurance would cover it. That's my 2 cents.

George Guadiane

11-07-2010, 12:25 PM

In the course of my woodturning, I already do a lot of free things for turners...
I provide free wood that is either more than I could ever possibly hope to turn or materials that are perfectly usable, but I have better wood to turn. I will sell the occasional piece of wood, if it starts out as a "keeper."
I do demos in my and local clubs, and at AWA Totally Turning when asked. I'm also providing the wood for this years symposium too.
It wasn't long ago that I tried to pay my good friend Don Orr to help me with an issue, but he wouldn't take my money(I still think he was wrong). I figure that if I'm willing to pay for good information, then I should be able to get paid for providing it.

I said all that to say, there needs to be limits. I don't turn "for a living," but make money at it and pay my (step) son to do some of the cleanup stuff in my shop (studio). I value/PRIZE the time I actually take to get on the lathe, so I'm not willing to be all on the give side of the equation when sharing shop time. I have no problem with a gathering of "equals" who share thoughts and techniques in a hands on environment, but showing someone what to do, how to do it, then watching them to make sure that they don't hurt themselves is WORK (in my mind)...
I recently had a guy approach me after seeing me do some turning and looking at my stuff at the "Autumn In Austerlitz" thing.
I told him it would be $50.00 per hour with a two hour minimum. He agreed. He has been here several times now, and I'm helping him get chucks and stuff on the side. I have not charged him that much, and have given him wood and a tool, so far. I'm teaching him safety, a little tool technique, safety and responding to his specific questions.
At some point, he's going to get added to the "equals" rotation and just come over once in a while to show a trick and learn a few, but for now, "scraper handle UP, gouge handle DOWN (unless you're scraping with it), do it like this, no REALLY, do it like this" costs him money.
I don't think anyone should be REQUIRED to give up their time just because they happen to be woodturners, even the nicest people in the world get compensated. Feeling good about yourself isn't always enough (IMO)

Ken Fitzgerald

11-07-2010, 12:56 PM

I am not skilled enough to feel I can charge for my services as a teacher. I'm still a beginning student.

I have, however, inducted a few beginning turners into the Vortex and in one case, my student has far exceeded my feeble talents.

Wally Dickerman

11-07-2010, 1:18 PM

I have been teaching woodturning for a lot of years. Most of it, until recently has been in classes. I taught at the local Woodcraft for 10 years and at our community woodshop for the same amount of time. Before that I taught for a number of years at other locations. Now all of my teaching is one on one in my own shop.

The latest cost at Woodcraft was an all day class for $125. Everything supplied. I got half of that but it should have been more. However, and this is important, they supplied the insurance.

In my own shop I charge $25 per hour plus the cost of wood used. I realize that I should be charging more, but I live in a retirement community and if I doubled the price I'd have few takers. I enjoy teaching so I'm happy to leave it at that. I am insured.

If you beling to an AAW affiliated club and you can make it a club activity, AAW will handle the insurance.

Some students just want a 4 hour session and that's okay. If they want more than that, and most do, then we do it in more than one session. At age 89, 4 hours is enough at one time.

I start sessions with some instruction on sharpening. Impress on the student how important properly sharpened tools are. Before we turn any wood we talk about what makes for good form and what to avoid.

Wally

Dan Hintz

11-07-2010, 2:58 PM

I'd be happy to see an experienced turner offer a 1-2 hour session for free to a small group of people. The session would be about proper tool use, safety, etc. After I have seen the tools used, then I would be willing to pay for a day's one-on-one lesson where I get to actually handle the tools myself. I'd probably buy the teacher lunch, rather than the other way around.

Bernie Weishapl

11-07-2010, 3:13 PM

Guess after talking with my insurance agent yesterday I won't be doing any teaching in my shop. He told me I would have to add a rider on top of what I have and up the personal injury amount by quite a sizeable amount. He said if I got sued the $100,000 I have wouldn't cut it. For what he told me I would need it would price me right out of my shop. It already cost enough just covering everything. There is a lot of good info here.

Cathy Schaewe

11-07-2010, 4:33 PM

When I first started turning, I took a class from Bob Rosand for a day. Since I live about 4 hours away from him, he had me come down the night before and stay in his little guest cottage/workshop, and his wife fed me breakfast and lunch the next day (and they would have fed me dinner if I hadn't eaten). He sent me home with the stuff I made, a couple of extra tools he had (a little skew and a set of calipers) and a bunch of wood. He charged a "whopping" $150. :eek:

Couldn't beat it, as far as I was concerned, especially in light of the talent he has. They were lovely people. Personally, I thought he should have charged at least $200.

Reed Gray

11-08-2010, 12:10 PM

Insurance is a necessary evil.

I am not positive, but when considering the AAW insurance, they only cover if your shop does only woodturning.

My business is an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation). Takes $500 or slightly more to set up. Benefit is that if some one sues, they only can sue your business, and not your personal assets. The first question a lawyer will ask when a lawsuit is being considered is "what do they have that we can get". Some of the shows are now requiring 1 million in liability insurance, not just a waiver.

My shop insurance covers me, my products, my video, and people in my shop. Best deal I found was through the Hartford. Thanks for that tip to Bill Grumbine.

robo hippy

Dan Hintz

11-08-2010, 12:55 PM

My business is an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation). Benefit is that if some one sues, they only can sue your business, and not your personal assets.
This assume the accident did not happen by your gross negligence. If it does, all bets are off and that LLC means bupkus in the court's eyes.

Grant Wilkinson

11-08-2010, 2:12 PM

This is an interesting thread. I've never taught woodturning, and I'm far from being good enough to do so. I have charged to teach other skills, and I was not prepared to give up my time for minimum wage. I was lucky, too, in that I wasn't instructing to put food on the table.

I've paid for instruction from two different turners. Both of these men are professional turners. They make their living doing it. Both charged significantly more than the minimum wage that some on this thread are prepared to accept for their time. I paid it without any reluctance. I wanted quality and was prepared to pay for it.

I'm not criticizing those who offer instruction for what I would consider to be very low fees. If they are hobbyists, and are just instructing to supplement their income, or to enable them to buy new toys, I can understand why they would sell their services cheaply. Any fee is better than no fee at all.

If they are professionals, though, I would suggest that they consider the optics of being the low bidder, so to speak. In our consumer society, many people, myself included, look at inexpensive things and conclude that they are "cheap". They are not of the best quality. That can be ok if we are looking for throw away stuff. If, however, we are looking at value for money, we may be prepared to spend a few more dollars to get quality. I suggest that this holds true for woodturning instruction, too. I would be leary of a professional who offers to spend a full day with me, one on one, for the equivalent of minimum wage. Who better knows what his time is worth than him? If he believes that his time is only worth a few bucks an hour, he may be right. For me, I don't want to pay for the services of someone who believes that. I don't select electricians and plumbers that way, either.

I admit that I am lucky. My pension is not too bad and I am able to save and pay for the things that I need and want without having to always go with the cheapest. Others are not so lucky.

I put this out there only to show that there are two sides to this question. Inexpensive can me a real deal. It can also mean "cheap".

George Guadiane

11-08-2010, 4:34 PM

If they are professionals, though, I would suggest that they consider the optics of being the low bidder, so to speak. In our consumer society, many people, myself included, look at inexpensive things and conclude that they are "cheap". They are not of the best quality. That can be ok if we are looking for throw away stuff. If, however, we are looking at value for money, we may be prepared to spend a few more dollars to get quality. I suggest that this holds true for woodturning instruction, too.
I edited for space...

Some very skilled hobbyists and professionals do "pro bono" and consider the market in determining their fee rates. While inexpensive CAN mean cheap, it doesn't always. Some would rather spread the joy than make "even more" money. The basics, safety, proper tool technique, bowl - spindle turning are either you have it or you don't kinds of skills. MOST of the demonstrators/teachers that I have seen go out of their way to not look stupid. In fact, even first time teachers go out of their way to teach, and teach well.
I'm not saying that there are grand thinking individuals who don't have skills, or worse yet (IMO) can't teach their skills... Teaching is a skill of its own.

So, with the MINOR exception of the individuals who have less talent than ego, and those few who just don't know how to transmit their skills to others, I would venture to say that people who get to the point of taking money, small or large amounts, are most interested in doing good, not getting paid. IF that is true, then what one gets will most usually be a bargain and rarely be "cheap."

Duff Bement

11-08-2010, 5:09 PM

Curt Fuller

11-08-2010, 5:15 PM

If you've been turning for very long, consider the enjoyment and satisfaction you receive from it. Then stop and figure out how much you've had to pay for that. For me I've never spent a dime paying for turning lessons but I've received priceless pleasure from it. To pass all the free pointers and suggestions on to someone else is the least I can do to pay back what I've received.

But that said, there is and always will be people that think they can learn more or better from paying for lessons. That's just how some people are. And I think that if you feel you can make it worth their money to give them lessons then you'd be providing a service that some people want. At that point it becomes like every other business, you have to charge enough to cover your expenses.

Matt Hutchinson

11-08-2010, 6:05 PM

I am in an interesting situation as an instructor. I teach classes at the local Woodcraft store, as well as work there part time, and a lot of the local turners know me because of that. I get approached about lessons from time to time, and it gets tricky trying to figure out if and what to charge guild/club members versus some random person who wants instruction.

Ideally I would not charge a penny, but I am also trying to get to a point where I am semi-pro with hopes of becoming full time down the road. If I teach for free all the time then I take away time I could be building my business as well as my skills. I teach a few close friends/co-workers without charging, but everyone else gets charged $40/hr.

Hutch

Tom Hamilton

11-08-2010, 6:45 PM

My experience with lessons was with an experienced teacher from the Houston club.... in my shop. He came, brought a few pieces of green wood, used my lathe, tools and A/C. Eight hours was $125, three years ago.

He brought a white board and we did "chalk talk" and then moved into sharpening, turning and design.

It was a great day, I did a repeat/remedial lesson a couple of months later. I hosted the lunch at the nearby Bass Pro Shop and we had a great day.

Regardless of the format and cost, lessons will accelerate the enjoyment and personal progress immeasurably.

Tom

Dan Hintz

11-08-2010, 7:00 PM

Grant,

Considering so many of us freely give our time and experience here on the boards, it's not hard to see why some are willing to accept a couple hundred dollars for a full day of instruction once in a while (they're not making a living off of it).

Grant Wilkinson

11-08-2010, 8:09 PM

Dan: I'm not arguing against that, or criticizing those that choose to do that, either. They are clearly not professionals, making their living teaching.

I also did not say or imply that I believe that paying large amounts for a service guarantees good service. I merely stated that those professionals who decide to sell their services cheaply run the risk of having some believe that their services may not be good.