What's a "Borg"?

[John Messinger]

I see lots of references to the "borg". From the context I'm guessing it is not a reference to the pseudo-race of cyborgs, from the Delta Quadrant.

[Van Huskey]

Big Orange Retail Giant as in Home Depot but is used for all the big box home centers.

[Mark Major]

Yeah....and resistance is not entirely futile. :rolleyes:

[johnny means]

I always assumed it was a double entandre, with the Star Trek reference being half the fun.

[Anthony Whitesell]

It is. When the BORG moves in and assimilates (or annihilates) the little guys. No only applying to HD but all of the big chains.

[rick carpenter]

Thus sayeth the Borg: "I am your father."

[Charles Wiggins]

Big Orange Retail Giant as in Home Depot but is used for all the big box home centers.

Yes, and it's full of mindless drones who cannot exceed their programming.

[Dave Gaul]

Can also mean "Big 'ole Retail Giant" to include all big box stores...

[Will Overton]

The first time I asked this question I was told it was a reference to Star Trek.

When the party from the Enterprise first boarded a Borg ship, they were surprised they could walk past members of the Borg and be totally ignored. After awhile they accepted it.

[David Hostetler]

Yes, and it's full of mindless drones who cannot exceed their programming.

Thanks. Now I need to clean my monitor and keyboard of the coffee I was drinking...

[Greg R Bradley]

I wish they would just ignore me. The have been told to constantly greet everyone and ask if they can help. It is very intrusive. One of the local Lowes actually has ONE person that actually could.

I do understand that the constant overbearing presence of staff is for deterring shoplifting.

[Brian Tymchak]

I'm still enjoying the novelty of being asked even more than once a visit if I need any help. I remember just a few years ago wandering for aisles and aisles at my HD looking for any employee to ask a question. I went to a checkout and the clerk got on the intercom and someone finally came out of the breakroom to help. For a while, I took my business to Lowes because they were a tiny bit better. (Lowes also embraced the notion of real customer service about a year before HD did. )

[Kent A Bathurst]

Yes, and it's full of mindless drones who cannot exceed their programming.

Not all of them..........fortunately.:D


http://static.flickr.com/1182/548882487_d4706b6267.jpg

[Dave Lehnert]

I wish they would just ignore me.

And there is the problem. Some wish to be ignored other want a person in every aisle.

[Will Overton]

I wish they would just ignore me. The have been told to constantly greet everyone and ask if they can help. It is very intrusive. One of the local Lowes actually has ONE person that actually could.

I do understand that the constant overbearing presence of staff is for deterring shoplifting.

I just say, "no thank you", and they don't bother me. But then I never wanted to do any shoplifting. :)

[Dan Karachio]

The drones at my local Borg act like the ones on TV. They completely ignore you unless you happen to be using your phaser rifle to take out their power conduits. I prefer it that way. The one difference fron the TV version is the real life ones are defiantly not in pursuit of perfection.

[Thomas Delpizzo]

I think she's the saleswoman at my HD! Yeaaaah, that looks like her!
Actually my wife and I love neighborhood hardware stores as they are usually more helpful and knowledgeable. I like to give them more business if I can. There's a great one near my brother's home in Springfield, Va. (just outside of DC) called Fischer's, in case anyone out there knows of it. It's in the same plaza as a Woodcraft store! It's the best of both worlds for me.:) This shop is quite large and has very knowledgeable staff. Prices are slightly more on some items, but its worth it. They have a lot of things you can't get at the big box stores (there are 3 in the area). It's just a nice experience of America that may be disappearing. They even have Lionel trains! :D

[Dan Friedrichs]

Actually my wife and I love neighborhood hardware stores as they are usually more helpful and knowledgeable. I like to give them more business if I can.

I agree - there is a wonderful Ace hardware not far from me, but they close at 5pm most weeknights, and aren't open Sundays. There's a Lowe's right across the street from them. Talk about people who could use a lesson on how to run a business...

[David Roberts,Fitchburg,Ma]

In the winter of 2008 my area of North Central Mass had a huge ice storm, I only lost the tops of my Oak trees. Thank heavens I had taken down all the pine trees near my house prior to this storm. My neighbors pines snapped that whole night, if you have ever heard pine branches snap under ice you'll know what I mean, it is loud and very scary, I got no sleep that night.
We went only 10 days without power, my sister in law a little over 2 weeks. With several inches of rain and temps at just about freezing, we were stck in our neighborhood,trees down all over the streets, quite a mess. Then of course we started getting water coming into the basement. We could have survived with a couple of woodstoves if it wasn't for the water in the basement/ family room, and not being able to run sump pumps. I checked the local hardware store that is less than a mile away, they had less than 5 that went right away. So this is where the Borg came in to help out, I was able to buy a generator the 2nd night. I stood in line for less than an hour, and got a decent deal. I won't get into the rats that were gouging on renting generators at huge prices during this period. I never heard how many the Borg sold, but I saw the benefit of a guy sitting in some office moving stock all around the East coast to send product where it was needed. A small local store could never compete in an emergency. I rarely shop at Loews or Home Depot, and never for lumber, but I do need to speak up as at least the lone voice in support.

[Cody Colston]

One is not going to experience the small-town atmosphere, the knowledgeable sales persons, the superior service nor the personal attention at a BORG that is found at the local hardware store.

However, when you need something NOW, it's Sunday evening or a holiday and everything else is closed, I'll bet most of you trashing the big box stores will gladly take advantage of their late hours and large inventory of lumber, tools, hardware, and household goods...whatever it is that is needed.

I doubt if many will do without that desperately needed item while waiting on the friendly, homey, local hardware store to open in a couple of days. ;)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Cody,

I agree with you.

A lot of the local businesses in the downtown area here are quick to ask the tax payer to pay for stuff like revitalizion...parking lots.....storm sewers.... Their reasoning is they can't compete with the local borgs or larger companies like Sears, Penneys etc.

Hog wash! One of the reasons your business does less business is because you close at 5:30 or 6:00. It the average working stiff gets off work at 5:00, that doesn't give them much time to visit your place of business.

The other larger stores are typically open until 8:00 or 9:00.

I frequent my local Ace Hardware as it's closer than the borgs and I can get hardware by the piece not by the prepackaged box...I can get the quality I choose as they often have a better variety.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........but I saw the benefit of a guy sitting in some office moving stock all around the East coast to send product where it was needed........

David - good point. You are exactly correct.

From detailed, personal knowledge on the lumber side, I can assure you that when a hurricane is heading toward the coast, the BORG executives are all on high-alert, and they call the top guys at their suppliers, and have huge volumes of sheathing, lumber, etc aimed at the [potentially] affected areas. Now, the BORG can throw around enough muscle with vendors that the actual "sweating bullets" part of sourcing and logistics falls on the shoulders of the suppliers, and it can be pretty doggone hard when the requirements are open-ended time and quantity, but they have access to those resources, and they marshall them well.

And on the supplier side - the company I worked for has a great many operations coast-to-coast. One, in a small western city, was literally next door to a subdivision that got hit by a tornado. The next day, the bad guys were driving through those streets with trucks of OSB, selling them for 10x prices in the stores [before they ran out] to the desperate residents. The Gen Mgr of my company's operation had a few tractor-trailer flatbeds filled with OSB. They went to the subdivision, got in the bad guys face [he sent some additional big guys to help send the message and to help with the distribution] and told them to get the heck out of there, and then drove down the streets: "Here - whaddya need? Lemme help you unload it and take it to your house." No charge - that wasn't the point. Yes, there was a PR value to it, but that wasn't why they did it.

[Mike Henderson]

And on the supplier side - the company I worked for has a great many operations coast-to-coast. One, in a small western city, was literally next door to a subdivision that got hit by a tornado. The next day, the bad guys were driving through those streets with trucks of OSB, selling them for 10x prices in the stores [before they ran out] to the desperate residents. The Gen Mgr of my company's operation had a few tractor-trailer flatbeds filled with OSB. They went to the subdivision, got in the bad guys face [he sent some additional big guys to help send the message and to help with the distribution] and told them to get the heck out of there, and then drove down the streets: "Here - whaddya need? Lemme help you unload it and take it to your house." No charge - that wasn't the point. Yes, there was a PR value to it, but that wasn't why they did it.
You call them "bad guys" but they are doing what our economic system wants them to do. They get out and hustle - they find supplies, they buy them, they transport them to the places where the supplies are needed, and they sell them to people who "desperately" need those supplies at market rates (market rates are high in such a situation). The people who buy the supplies are thankful to get the supplies, even at an inflated price.

There was a situation on the gulf coast after Katrina where people monkeying with the free market system caused everyone problems. A guy who had a motor home bought generators in his home state and loaded them into his motor home. He drove to the gulf coast and was selling them at inflated prices to homeowners who wanted generators at any price. The cops came along and seized his inventory because he was "profiteering". So everyone lost. He lost his inventory and the people in the gulf area lost the ability to save their food and have some lighting. According to the people who passed that "profiteering law", he should have done what he did but sold the generators for the same price he paid for them.

It's better to let our economic system work. If a whole lot of "bad guys" come to the area, the prices will fall. But no matter how many come, the affected people benefit. It's better than no one showing up.

If the supplies are good, as good as you could buy in a Borg, I call those people "good guys", not "bad guys".

But if the "good/bad guys" are buying their supplies at the local Borg, I'd prefer if the borg limited how much each person could buy so that no one could "corner' the market on that type of supplies - since the Borg won't charge "market rates" for their supplies.

Mike

[David Helm]

I don't shop the borgs. The few times I've entered (only on Sundays) they haven't had what I needed. My local hardware store (called Hardware Sales) closes on Sundays, but they ALWAYS have what I need . . . and their prices are competitive . . . and the people who work there ARE knowledgeable. They are local, so the money I spend circulates locally.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The people who work in the Borgs are locals and their pay checks are spent locally too.

Yes, the people who work there may be less knowledgeable. Those are entry level jobs and typically pay less. You are surprised?

People in the community often own stock in those borgs so money comes into the community as a result.

People working in the hardware store may be more knowledgeable but typically in my area, their products are more expensive too.

They are both part of the economy. The economy is more than what you see in your local area. It is more than what you see in the mirror daily.

I buy where I believe I can get the quality I want at a price I can afford. Sometimes my budget won't allow me to buy the quality I would like.

Example, I quit buying hardwood at the local borg 2 miles from my home as the quality declined below what I find acceptable and the price got too high. My local lumberyards don't stock hardwoods and I would have to special order hardwood sight unseen.

I now drive 30 miles one way to a lumberyard in Moscow, Idaho. They have prices that are as good as the local borg, a better selection and better quality.

There is no moral superiority by shopping the small hardware store or the Borg IMHO.

[Will Overton]

Where I lived before many/most folks didn't believe in traveling to shop ... I mean not at all. There was a Home Depot about 10 miles away. I can't say I never went in there, but most lumber, hardware and even nursery items were bought at the local lumber yard. They were 2 miles away, and would even deliver locally within 2 hours. For almost 20 years, Home Depot and later Lowes, about 12 miles away, never hurt their business. Just before I moved in '05, Home Depot opened a store about a mile from the lumber yard. The lumber yard lasted 2 1/2 years before closing.

It is price, combined with a convenient location, that won out over good service and good products at a slightly higher price.

[Cody Colston]

I regularly go to Home Depot for the same reason other people go to the "BORG"...convenience.

If I want fasteners, I go to Fastenal. If I want lumber, I go to a sawmill. If I want lacquer, I go to Sherwin Williams. If I want lawnmower blades, I go to the JD dealership. If I want fertilizer or plants or mulch, I go to the nursery.

But, if I want to get all of it in a single trip at a single location, I go to Home Depot because it's close to my house and they have all of that and much more and they are open every day.

Hardware stores have their place...I bought my Stihl chainsaw from a local Ace hardware because they are an authorized dealer and repair center. I've traded with them for years.

But, the Home Depots and Lowes stores have a place, too. Not everyone is an expert, discriminating woodworker who wouldn't be caught dead buying from a big box store. Many people are perfectly content to buy a couple of melamine covered particle board shelves and brackets for their garage or laundry room. Maybe they need a couple of sacks of concrete mix to set a new mailbox post. Maybe they like the variety of tools available there.

I like going to the BORGS. I know what I want and where it is located, so I don't mind not having knowledgeable staff to help me. I'd rather be left alone, anyway. On the rare occassions that I do require assistance and one of the attendants is truly helpful, I always fill out one of the forms at the check-out commending them. They don't make a lot of money and that's the least I can do to acknowledge their help.

Like Ken said, those people working in there are locals. They are my neighbors and while they may not all be motivated to be the best they can be, they are working for the same reasons I work...to make a living.

[Tom Walz]

We have a list of acronyms from various sources at:

http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Woodworking-Acronyms.html

We had this done by an outside source. If I owe anyone credit or anyone wants to add something, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Tom

[Kent A Bathurst]

...........You call them "bad guys" but they are doing what our economic system wants them to do. They get out and hustle - they find supplies, they buy them, they transport them to the places where the supplies are needed, and they sell them to people who "desperately" need those supplies at market rates (market rates are high in such a situation)........

Oh, I'm a free market guy all the way, Mike. Its just that I'm either (a) cynical enough or (b) not naive enough to think that all markets and all market players should have zero oversight and accountability. Ingenuity, effort, and assumption of risk have a payoff, as it should. These were guys that had bought a stake-bed load at the BORG, and then jacked up their cost 10x, preying on desperate people. There was no motive but a quick exorbitant profit in the face of a disaster. Bad guys by my personal definition of right and wrong.

I don't think your generator example is apples-to-apples, but that's my opinion - the questionable rationality of thousands of laws is open to vigorous debate. When the supply of federally-mandated special-formula gasoline for central/northern Georgia was interrupted by refineries shut down due to Katrina, there were many instances of gas stations in remote areas jacking their prices wayyyy up - a couple bucks a gallon, IIRC - in a matter of a few hours. Big fines levied. It took a couple weeks for a waiver to be granted for the gasoline formulation, and in the meantime, there was a non-stop stream of trucks comiing from regions whose pipelines were not dependent on GOM operations. The price was higher, but reasonably so due to the extra logistics involved. The enabling legislation behind the EPA regulations that mandate the gasoline formulation for non-complinant areas is a law that could be debated.

And - yes, I do feel that manager was one of the "good guys". Class act all the way.

I recognize we'll not agree on this one - exorbitant is in the eye of the beholder.....

[johnny means]

What local hardware stores are you guys going to? I invariably end up at small town hardware stores when doing installs and they never have what to me are the most basic items.
Do you have five millimeter shelf pins?
"No, but we do have two dusty boxes of tarnished brass 1/4" shelf pins."
Kreg screws?
"Craig who?"
Euro hinge?
"Dems fightin words?"
I swear, they haven't change their inventory list in 30 years.I often feel as though I'm shopping in an old persons attic.
As much as the Borgs lack that special something, when it comes to getting what you need, whatever it might be, small businesses aren't even in the same league.

[Fred Voorhees]

I have always and will continue to shop at Home Depot. The fact that many of you seem to find trouble getting help at HD, makes me feel good because I have never had trouble getting help at mine....mind you...I rarely ask for help because I pretty much know where anything that I might be searching for is located. That being said, I went in just yesterday looking for an item....stainless cutting tin snips. I was pretty sure that they were located in the tool corral in the section that has all of the other metal cutting items. There was a sales associate right in the aisle at the time and I asked him about it. He dropped everything he was doing....went right to where I was looking to confirm that it wasn't there and then suggested we walk to where the HVAC section was becuase there was a small display of similar tools there. The tin snips weren't there, but that is not the point.....the dude went out of his way to try to solve my problem.

I find all of the fuss and ado over Home Depot and Lowes to be quite amusing. And I will bet that many of those denegrading both outlets have found themselves eventually wandering into one of them out of desperation. I find nothing wrong with shopping at their stores. I have rarely not gotten what I wanted to buy when shopping there. They are employing local people and therefore distributing money locally....in essence, helping the local economy.

[Bryan Morgan]

I have always and will continue to shop at Home Depot. The fact that many of you seem to find trouble getting help at HD, makes me feel good because I have never had trouble getting help at mine....mind you...I rarely ask for help because I pretty much know where anything that I might be searching for is located. That being said, I went in just yesterday looking for an item....stainless cutting tin snips. I was pretty sure that they were located in the tool corral in the section that has all of the other metal cutting items. There was a sales associate right in the aisle at the time and I asked him about it. He dropped everything he was doing....went right to where I was looking to confirm that it wasn't there and then suggested we walk to where the HVAC section was becuase there was a small display of similar tools there. The tin snips weren't there, but that is not the point.....the dude went out of his way to try to solve my problem.

I find all of the fuss and ado over Home Depot and Lowes to be quite amusing. And I will bet that many of those denegrading both outlets have found themselves eventually wandering into one of them out of desperation. I find nothing wrong with shopping at their stores. I have rarely not gotten what I wanted to buy when shopping there. They are employing local people and therefore distributing money locally....in essence, helping the local economy.

You aren't the only one. ;)