$35 Worth of Rust & Wood (Disston, Simonds, Stanley)

[Karl Andersson]

Usually at yard sales and flea markets in my area, all I see are broken tools less than 10 years old or an occasional “goner” old tool that has been ruined by neglect.

Finally last weekend I had a good run and wanted to share with folks who might think the stuff I got is interesting (LOML sounds suspiciously patronizing when I show her my new finds). I was especially happy because I had been looking for a rip saw for over 2 years and got two in one day…

So, what I got for $35 – I’d appreciate your comments, of course:D

Sorry, I forgot how to place photos within the text - next time. the comments are in order...


Lightly rusted Disston 5TPI rip with thumbhole handle-assume it’s a D8 (Disston & sons phila medal) $8.00
Heavily rusted and weathered Simonds 5 TPI Rip saw with nib – the seller said she always wanted to paint a scene on the blade. That may be all it is good for, but I’ll do my best to consolidate the wood and clean the rust. $1.00
11TPI warranted sup crosscut and late-model Disston 14-inch 12 tpi backsaw (will become tenon saw) $1.00 each


Handle showing medallion and the water and sun-damaged Simonds handle. I’ll try to soak it in BLO or thinned shellac unless I find a better consolidant. The details are so crisp, even with weathering, that I’d like to save the original if possible. There is normal-colored wood about 1/32 under the surface.

Stanley Bailey no. 5 plane, type 9 – only light surface rust and the bottom of the mushroom knob got sawed off. $10 (yeah, I got buyer’s fever)

Recent jeweler’s saw, three 8-inch natural stones, 40-inch Colt bar clamp, $1.00 each

Stanley Rule no. 136 – I don’t know why I bought this…$5

Nicholson round files – largest ¾ dia x17 inches $3.00 for all

All the $1.00 items came from the same yard sale – someone selling grandpa’s tools. They said he had “some saws in leather cases and a wooden box of them carving chisels” that they would try to find for me – gave me a number to call next week . Could be more rust, or…

This will probably be my only good weekend this year, good luck on your searches
Karl

[Jim Koepke]

Looks like a decent haul. When you get it cleaned up post more pics.

jtk

[Gary Hodgin]

Great find!! Never see stuff like that around here.

[Marv Werner]

Karl,

Your Simonds handle can be made to look very nice. I had a Disston No.12 with a Mahogany handle that looked just like yours before I refurbed it. It looked just drift wood. And it had a missing upper horn.

Here's a picture of it after I gave it good going over.

[Mark Wyatt]

Karl,

Your Simonds handle can be made to look very nice. I had a Disston No.12 with a Mahogany handle that looked just like yours before I refurbed it. It looked just drift wood. And it had a missing upper horn.

Here's a picture of it after I gave it good going over.

Marv, what restoration steps did you take to return the beauty to the wood?

[Karl Andersson]

the wood under the gray on the Simonds looks pretty pink - was mahogany a common wood for them? I was thinking of soaking it in either thinned BLO or thinned shellac to consolidate the wood...

[Marv Werner]

Hi Mark,

Didn't do anything special actually. I sanded through the driftwood looking surface and exposed the natural Mahogany color of the wood. I sanded all surfaces and nooks and crannies. I ended up with bare wood with no original finish. I put a new upper horn on it. I wanted to retain that natural color but at the same time accentuate it to some degree. In it's natural state, it was kind of pink in color. I was hoping to retain some of that, but it didn't happen. What you see is six coats of spray on clear Deft brand lacquer. Steelwooled between coats with 0000 with a final paste wax applied using the same grade steelwool and a final rub down using a common paper towel.

Some people tend to over complicate these things. Due to my inherent laziness, I look for the fastest and easiest way to do things. I like the lacquer because it is more durable and is well suited for a saw handle. It dries super fast. I can apply six coats on a warm day. The only downside to lacquer is the slight orange peel it leaves. Takes lots of steelwooling to level it all off and at the same time not remove it from the edges. I don't use the 3M foam sandpaper because it will take off the edges too easily.

I consider this saw kind of rare. Disston didn't make very many No.12,s with the Mahogany. At least, I haven't seen any but this one and one that Daryl Weir has.

[Marv Werner]

Karl,

I would suggest that before you apply anything, first sand off that gray matter and expose all the bare wood. And repair the cracks. At that point you can use BLO. BLO will darken the wood some though. I didn't want that on mine. I was going for the natural look. Also carefully scrape each wheat before you apply a finish. The point of a box scraper blade works quite well.

[Chris Vandiver]

The 11ppi Warranted Superior saw looks to have been made by Atkins. Nice saw and a great haul on all those tools!

[harry strasil]

In the last picture of the original post, there is part of Stearns Saw Filing attachment in the background, but you don't mention it?

[Karl Andersson]

Harry,
I didn't mention the saw filing guide because I figured I'm missing pieces, so not really something to brag about. It was also a dollar. It's only marked "made in the USA", but it was rust-free and these people have a yard sale about every 2 weeks, so maybe the rest will show up.

I just looked online - thanks for the Stearns name - but the two shown are different models. The large fleam clamp nut handle on theirs is a flat key, mine is two opposing bars with balls on the ends. If you have one and can show me what it clamps to, that would help me describe it to the sellers. I already told them to look for a really long clamp (figured the guide attached to a saw vise).

Marv,
thanks for the tips - it was pretty much what I planned to do, I just hope the weathered wood isn't too deep and that the crack will close. My real concern is that the wood feels really light, like it sat in water, and it will disintegrate the first time I use it, so I'm going to make a template from the handle before I use it in case I need to make a new one.

I like the Deft idea because I've used it with good results on furniture restorations. I have only brushed it on and used "fisheye preventer" (may still be available in auto paint stores), so I don't have problems with orange peel or fisheye depressions. I want to try to solidify at least the end grain and weakened fibers (if there are any after scraping), so I might experiment with thinning the Deft and soaking it into the wood. The best thing about Deft is if you make a mistake it is completely reversible. I guess the other good thing is that Wal-mart here carries the brushable version.

[Marv Werner]

Hi Karl,

I have restored a couple saw filing guides that I think included the part that you have. I don't recall seeing a name or maker on any of the parts. Here are some pictures that might be of help. It is intended to slide on the tooth edge. A very poor design in my opinion. There are wood dowels at each end of the black base that slide on the teeth.

I have it set up in a vise with two 1 x 4,s clamping the saw blade. The filing guide works quite well if it is allowed to slide on something other than the saw teeth, especially when the guide reaches the end of the blade. Without the 1 x 4,s it would just drop off the end of the blade. The guide is not intended to be attached to the vise. I took the pictures for when I sold it on eBay. When I got it, it didn't have the parts that hold the file. I had to make those.

There's a different Disston guide that does attach to a Disston vise.

[Karl Andersson]

Perfect, Marv - that is exactly the same guide I bought. Now I see what I am missing - the black-painted assembly. Hopefully the sellers will have another yard sale and I can dig through their stuff looking for it. At worst, I could make a facsimile of the missing part.
Karl

[Marv Werner]

Karl,

Regarding your Simonds saw handle....I doubt if that larger crack will completely close. I would stuff some glue down in it and clamp it shut as much as possible. Allow the glue to dry then saw out the crack and clue in new wood. I would also saw out the smaller cracks as well.

Here are before and after pictures of one of many handles I've repaired that way. This one also looked like drift wood when I got it and had many many cracks.

[harry strasil]

Marv's pictures are better than mine, but I really like mine, you have to learn to slide the tool from the back to the front so the teeth don't dig into the dowels.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/sawfilinggauge.jpg

and, its easy to file the few teeth on each end without using the guide, or you can swivel the file holder around so it projects out over the end.

[Marv Werner]

Karl,

Looks like you are also missing the two parts that retain the file.

[harry strasil]

Karl, saw filing guides or jigs are nice to learn with, but learning to file a saw without them is the important part, and its also much faster than using the guide or jig.

Marv, what does the other side of the handle look like, the side with all the glued in pieces? Just curious!

[Marv Werner]

Harry,

You are right, the guide can be used as it was intended by sliding it directly on the teeth, but I found it a PITA to have to lift it up and move it exactly to where it needed to be located to file the next tooth. If you don't lift it up to move it, the teeth quickly cut into the wood dowels. With the base of the jig sliding on the wood supports, it was merely a matter of sliding and locating the file in the next tooth. Also a PITA to mess with the end teeth where the jig is not supported.

At my age I don't have time to fiddle around with a poorly designed anything.:D

[harry strasil]

How old are you Marv? Your profile doesn't say. I know George is 69 and I am real close to 67 in a few months!

[Marv Werner]

Harry,

I'm sneaking up on 73, but attempting to remain at 72 for as long as possible. Thanks for asking, I always enjoy revealing my age. :) I like to say that I have a limited number of hours to live and don't like to waste any to them on nonsensical activities. However, here I sit. :D I used to be a bit stingy with sharing what I have learned over the years, not that it's a whole hellava lot, but I can't take it with me, well, I guess I could, but what a waste that might be. I find that in sharing, it is sometimes interpreted as bragging and gloating and showing off. Well, that may be, but if'n ya cain't gloat, it ain't worth do'n, right?

Seriously, if I can help Karl here, with just a small amount of sharing, it sorta makes my day. Makes my naps more peaceful and restful. ;)

[harry strasil]

I guess this is as good a place as any for this post. We buy old saws and other tools to use, but before we use them, we have to sharpen them so they will work well. I use my saws a lot, but don't sharpen them very often. Because, I am very mindful of replacing the teeth guards when I get done with them.

This is a Blade Guard slotting plane that I made a long time ago our of some scraps that were laying around, along with the extra different thickness blades for it I made.

I just thought it would be interesting to some of you. Its not very pretty or elaborate, but it is very functional.

[Paul Incognito]

I just thought it would be interesting to some of you. Its not very pretty or elaborate, but it is very functional.
Definitely interesting to me. What did you use for a blade? I've been using a saw with almost no set to make the initial kefr and the widening the kerf as necessary to get a snug fit. a trial and error process at best.
PI

[harry strasil]

Paul, I use small pieces of old handsaw blades that I make webs(blades) for my bow and frame saws. My latest method is to use the thinest blade I have, then carefully insert the saw its going to be used on from one end with the teeth at the bottom, carefully working it in and out to clear the swarf from the gullets. I generally use a modern style hand saw for this. It makes a snug fit and I usually slide the protector off to the front, or just pull it out, but I always put it back on the same way I made space for the teeth except from the back to the front so as not to enlarge the kerf so it won't stay on by itself. For bow and frame saws it has to be slipped over the teeth.

[Karl Andersson]

Thanks Harry and Marv,
Good advice - I will show my progress when I get around to fixing these saws and if I get/make the missing piece of the guide.

Karl

[harry strasil]

Paul, for some of my older saws that the tooth guard has gotten to the point that it is too loose, I use a piece of thin cardboard, specifically in my case a 1.5 " strip of a cigarette carton that I have soaked in light oil and put it over the saw blade in the middle and then slip the protector over that to hold it on.

[Mark Wyatt]

Marv-

Thanks. I picked up an old wooden jointer that looks like driftwood and I was wondering how to approach cleaning it up. Your post is a big help.

-Mark

[Marv Werner]

Your are quite welcome, Mark. Good luck and we'll be wanting pictures.:)

[Daryl Weir]

I consider this saw kind of rare. Disston didn't make very many No.12,s with the Mahogany. At least, I haven't seen any but this one and one that Daryl Weir has.

Marv,

Just one! ;)

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk132/daryl_weir/DSC07573.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk132/daryl_weir/DSC07572.jpg

I even sold a ship point one on the electronic auction site that Eric von Sneidern bought. Kind of kick myself for selling it now. It's shown here if you go down to about the middle of the page http://disstonianinstitute.com/12page.html

I've seen more of these out there but not many. They all seem to have the Disston/Phila medallion or label screw, whichever one prefers to call it. I've often wondered if it was an anniversary special from around 1920, 1925 which would have been Disston's 80th or 85th.

Take care,
Daryl

[Daryl Weir]

Karl,

Your Simonds saw is probably the highest quality one of the bunch. It's either a No.5 or a No.61 Blue Ribbon. Both are very nice saws with the Blue Ribbon being the most expensive. They had nicely carved apple handles that are similiar to the Disston No.12. Here's a picture of one of the No.5's I sold. I have a few better ones hanging in my collection but just don't have pictures of them.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk132/daryl_weir/DSC07784.jpg

The Simonds steel has always been a consistantly good quality, tough filing and the grind and polish was always smooth on the plate. These saws are easliy comparable to a No.12. Good luck in cleaning them up, they should make some good usable saws!

Take care,
Daryl

[Marv Werner]

Daryl,

Thanks for the pics and the Disstonian link. I'm thinking that perhaps the saw Erik bought from you was made shortly after 1928 when Disston discontinued the nib, but had not yet switched to all covertop handles. The medallion dates it from 1917 to 1942.

Very nice looking restore on those three saws.

Think I'll keep the one I have. Doubt if it would sell for what it's worth, unless by pure luck. Gotta be worth around $300 on the high side, don'tcha think?

[Daryl Weir]

Marv,

I actually have a couple other ship point No.12's and a No.16 that don't have a nib and I believe they were before 1928. IIRC I have an early pocket catalog that shows a No.7 ship point without a nib.

The top saw still had a cosmoline coating on it. I don't think the saw had ever been used. The middle one was a cleanup but the handle has the original finish. The bottom one was that clean when I got it and has the original finish on the handle also.

I'd like to think these would be at least $300.00 a piece but it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay you for it! ;)

Take care,
Daryl

[Paul Incognito]

I see one of these planes in my future. The plastic blade guards on my saws have to go!
There are some real nice saws in this thread. Karl, I'm looking forward to seeing how yours cleans up!
PI

[Marv Werner]

Harry,

Neat little groover you made there. Do you start by locating the cutter up high and lower it more and more as the groove gets deeper?

[harry strasil]

Its just a wee plough plane.

[Karl Andersson]

Thanks Daryl, that's an impressive collection and it's encouraging that it is maybe worth the effort to bring back a good saw. Despite its condition, the Simonds blade is arrow-straight, so that's a start. I'll post when I get it restored, though it surely won't be as nice-looking as yours.

Did Simonds etc their blades? Not that I think it could have survived the rust...

Typical of my luck rust hunting here - if it's good quality, it is missing parts, is broken or severely neglected. If I see something in good shape, it's usually lowest quality, stamped metal, zinc plated, etc.

Thanks for the tips Harry, and yes, I agree you should learn hand filing before using the machine; I've only filed a couple by hand and I think it might be easier than trying to set the guide up and keep it aligned. I just couldn't pass up an obviously old orphan for a buck. If anyone reading this needs the file guide for parts, drop me a PM and we can trade, giveaway, etc.

Later,
Karl

[Daryl Weir]

Karl,

You might be surprised what you find under the rust. Simonds typically had a pretty deep etch so you might get lucky. I'm sure proper & careful cleaning, especially around the etched area, has been discussed on here before and other places so I won't go into that.

Take care,
Daryl