Harmless agreement

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

Hi everybody, I've been searching for this topic but couldn't find anything..
To everybody who engraves other people's object (such as ipod and laptops), how do you defend your self from claims of damage?
example. I engrave a macbook and the customer comes back saying that the laptop isn't working anymore and was perfect when he brought it to me.
Do you prepare an agreement for him to sign prior to accept the work, do you use an insurance or what?
Thanks

Giacomo

[Rodne Gold]

Easy way , if you not comfortable engraving a high priced item, don't do it. Kind of like problem/difficult customers - refer em to your competition and let THEM have the headaches.
Even if you sign an agreement with the customer , it won't be valid if you are negligent under most countries law.
For more information and other ppls opinions , searrch for "waiver" in these boards

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Every time I etch a laptop, I make the customer turn it on before they walk out the door. Always make sure your quote reflects the risk.

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

thanks everybody for your answers.
Rodne, it's not my neglection that worries me, but some smart guys trying to use my shop to convert old broken PCs into brand new ones bought by myself :)
Chris, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

[Brian Fiore]

Hi everybody, I've been searching for this topic but couldn't find anything..
To everybody who engraves other people's object (such as ipod and laptops), how do you defend your self from claims of damage?
example. I engrave a macbook and the customer comes back saying that the laptop isn't working anymore and was perfect when he brought it to me.
Do you prepare an agreement for him to sign prior to accept the work, do you use an insurance or what?
Thanks

Giacomo

(1) You should draft (or your attorney) a waiver/hold harmelss/assumption of risk acknowledgment, and attach that to your work order for each job, and get a the customer's signature on it. You don't have to point out the the paragraph, as long as the average person reading and signing the work order request would see it, or a line that says they agree to all terms on the back, etc...

(2) Other alternatives include, renting the laser machine to the customer, and letting them engrave stuff at thier own risk.

(3) Or, may be purchase the item from them for $1, and sell them the option to purchase the item "as is" for $1 + what ever you would charge for the engraving normally.

(4) ask them to disassemble the thing and just give you the shell of what you will be engraving for them.

(5) Always get something signed in writing.

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

does anybody know if laser engraving voids the item warranty? anyone ever had any issues of this kind?

[Dan Hintz]

Some companies will give people a hard(er) time with warranty claims if the item has been marked. Make sure that is in the agreement signed by the customer... warranty issues are not your concern. If you intend to go down this road, I would also add a clause that the laser engraver has no effect on the operation of electronic equipment, and therefore your liability will be limited strictly to the cost of the engraving... if someone claims their computer no longer works after engraved, it's not your problem (and no judge would ever agree to pay that out in small claims).

[Garrett Nors]

Lasering a device will not "make the laptop not turn on." Unless you cut through the casing (pretty hard on an aluminum macbook....aka impossible with our lasers) you will not damage the internals. It simply won't happen. The heat generated by our lasers is minimal and will not affect internals.

I have never engraved a device without the customer signing (before hand, of course) a written waiver saying that I am not responsible for any possible damages or misspellings/misdesigns that were not my doing (if I got artwork from the owner or someone the owner knows, for example). I simply will not be held accountable for something like that.

[Bill Cunningham]

My solution: I don't do jewelery or any customer supplied personal items that are worth more than the setup/etching fee I charge..

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

thanks everybody for you contribution, Bill, that is something I cannot do since I opened up my business focusing on hi tech items..
I will have a consultant writing down an agreement for the customer to sign prior to etch the device.
As a general info, Italian Apple Customer Service, confirmed that an etched item (from Iphones to Laptops) is to be considered out of Warranty since it contains "damages" that are not due to normal everyday use, so customer have to pay a penal (here around 210 Euros) to get back under the warranty. Of course only if you are still under the assistance period (one year plus eventual Apple extension care).

[Bill Cunningham]

As a general info, Italian Apple Customer Service, confirmed that an etched item (from Iphones to Laptops) is to be considered out of Warranty since it contains "damages" that are not due to normal everyday use, so customer have to pay a penal (here around 210 Euros) to get back under the warranty. Of course only if you are still under the assistance period (one year plus eventual Apple extension care).

Now THAT sounds like a scam!! I guess through some magical production methods, the ones etched by Apple themselves are immune to these "Damages", and of course after paying 210 eros, they wave a magic wand over it, and it's now fully warrantied and functional again after unauthorized etching damages. .. Does an Iphone even 'cost' the equiv. of 210 euros in North. America..

[Garrett Nors]

thanks everybody for you contribution, Bill, that is something I cannot do since I opened up my business focusing on hi tech items..
I will have a consultant writing down an agreement for the customer to sign prior to etch the device.
As a general info, Italian Apple Customer Service, confirmed that an etched item (from Iphones to Laptops) is to be considered out of Warranty since it contains "damages" that are not due to normal everyday use, so customer have to pay a penal (here around 210 Euros) to get back under the warranty. Of course only if you are still under the assistance period (one year plus eventual Apple extension care).

That's pretty outlandish. The only reason they are doing this is because they offer an engraving service for their customers.

Fragmentation is bad, we get it Steve Jobs...but you can't even let your customers DECORATE the items you sell them? Come on now :rolleyes:

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

sorry to post in an old discussion, I have a general question for anybody who engraves Hi-tech items. Anybody ever had experience with customers having troubles with warranty after having their item etched?

[Dan Hintz]

Don't know, don't want to know, not my problem...

[Dean Fowell]

Never thought abot it but have done 3 blackberrys and 2 pre,s and both my laptops and they are still working , but why laser a apple when the apple store does that dont they they can afford to screw up, I wont do any ones unless I buy a broken one first to get the settings right on cellphones I had to get my wife a new one cause of human error and I am very ceareful,

Have a Icey day

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

Sorry Dan, does it mean you've had experience and you chose to behave "not my problem" (which by the way is right) or that you've never had experience of this kind?

[Dan Hintz]

Giacomo,

Clients come to you for a service (engraving). They are bringing their own equipment, and you know the engraving has zero effect on the ability of the item to work as designed. If warranty work is denied by another company, that is not your problem (though clients may want to make it your problem). In a nutshell, "It's not my problem!". I don't want to know about any problems customers have with warranty work afterwards (though a few tales here and there about that very thing happening), so I don't bother asking them about it. If it is ever raised, I will point them back to the sales receipt they signed upon delivery that explicitly states any warranty issues are not my responsibility.

[Bill Cunningham]

I've made it a point over the last few years not to do jewelry, Ipods and their like.. I find the time it takes to set this stuff up, verses what they want to pay to have it done, usually adds up to a big waste of time.. The same with Paintball guns.. Once you 'enlighten' the kid as to how much it's going to cost him to 'rad' out his marker with the lousy .jpg he just sent you, they usually just go away...