SO... You Want to Saw Your Own Lumber

[John Messinger]

I am in the middle of my first experience with a Granberg Alaskan Mk III saw mill. I needed a big powerful chainsaw (mine is an Efco 85 cc), an Alaskan Mk III chain saw mill, lots of time, the $40.00 Granberg rip chain was better than the $200 Rapco rip chain, lots of time, a stong back, plus physical endurance to go with it, the proper sized sharpening stones for a Dremel tool, lots of time, a shop built jig to hold the saw so that you do not have to remove it from the mill for sharpening the chain which would take more time, (did I mention time?), a new ladder to function as a flat plane to make the first cut plus the shop built jigs to hold the ladder properly on the log, time, a log (DO NOT pick a 100 year old, 24" diameter, red oak tree at the bottom of a hill as your first one,) wax or some other material to seal the end grain of the boards, time and lots of it, something to heat the wax (my wife had not used our electric griddle in a few weeks but there are some holidays coming up), a skilsaw, chalk line, come-a-longs, tow chain, tow straps, peavey, prybar, felling wedges, beer, time, smaller chain saws to move branches out of the way, bow saw, marking crayons, tape measures, time, beer, beer time, bar and chain oil, gasoline, 4 cycle oil, gloves, helmit, time, chaps, stickers, and good a place to stack the lumber.

Okay so I am 9 days into going from this:

http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/45610/2136767800092041178S600x600Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2136767800092041178WMHicx])

to this:

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/25367/2108706390092041178S600x600Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2108706390092041178HrXJEb])

I am exhausted and I still have about 2 weekends left of labor. I am wondering when the snow will fly.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Nice stack of lumber....I'd be hiding that griddle.

[Jim Becker]

Nice work...and I do mean work...which you know. Grueling work!

BTW, you might want to consider getting that new lumber stacked outside where the air can flow through it and wick off the moisture. Just cover the top (not the sides) and it will be fine. Getting it 6-12" off the ground is a good idea. I use some treated 4x material for that with stickers to separate the stack from the base. Level the 4x material to the same plane with a slight slope end-to-end for drainage off the top cover before stacking on top of it.

[Rick Markham]

Definitely nice stack of lumber! It looks like it is worth it... I would absolutely be hiding that griddle :eek:

[Ted Wong]

Nice stack of wood there john. As Jim mentions it'd probably be a real good idea to move that wood outside for at least 6 months if not a year. The first time I stickered a stack of wood indoors like you have I got a tremendous amount of loss due to splitting and checking because the wood dried out to quickly. Fall and winter are the best times to cut up logs and stack them outdoors. The cool temperatures and low humidity are ideal for the first stages of the drying process.

[John Messinger]

I seem to be reading two different theories for getting the wood outdoors. Jim is talking about airflow to get rid of the moisture while Ted suggests the cooler tempertures will slow down the process and reduce checking. At present the wood is in my shop which is separate from my house and heated only with a wood stove and an electric space heater to keep it above 35 degrees in the winter. I am hoping that this will be enough.

We get alot of snow here in New Hampshire. I dried the pine that I used as construction lumber for my shop outdoors and there was a considerable amount of mold accumulation in the wood that was still preseent after planing and dimensioning. Snow covered my 6' high stack of pine.

I have never tried to dry lumber in my shop which is only 3 years old, but I really want to avoid the mold problem which occured with last batch of pine. This oak may be a different situation entirely.

Other photos (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/578921177NlDcjN)

[Neil Brooks]

I fancy myself a man of words, but ... sometimes "Oh, that's SO COOL" is the best I can do.

This is one of those times.

I dream of building our fireplace mantel ... out of a tree that I found, and ... well ... obviously YOU know how the story goes, from there :)

Neat !

[Scott T Smith]

John, you forgot "Advil and Aleve for the day after" from your list! :D

Re drying, the rate that lumber dries at is related to three different factors. Temperature, relative humidity, and airflow. For mold to occur in a stickered stack of wood, generally the temperature must be between 70F - 100F. At this time of the year, that should not be a problem in NH. The lower the temp, the slower the drying rate, and the higher the RH, the slower the rate.

Of the common species, oak is one of the more difficult ones to dry, because it is very easy to dry too quickly during the initial drying stages (from green down to 35% MC). It is also one of the slowest species to dry; 4/4 oak has a maximum recommended daily drying rate of about 3.5%, whereas pine and cypress are 15%! I would advise against trying to increase the natural drying rate on your oak, although some low speed fans blowing through your stacks would not hurt. If you do put some fans on your stack, to test the airspeed simply hold a handkerchief against the stack on the opposite side from the fan. If you get more than a couple of inches deflection at the bottom of the handkerchief, you have too much airflow.

It is best if your drying (and dried) lumber does not get rewetted during or after the drying process. In your part of the country, due to the snow it is usually best to dry outside in the winter inside some type of shed. One nice thing about fall and winter air drying for oak is that the natural drying rate is right within the ideal range, as long as your stacks do not get too much air flow.

Jim and Ted's advice is spot on, as long as you have a place to stack and sticker the wood that will not allow snow accumulation inside or against your stack. In your uninsulated shop, you should also be ok, but I would increase the distance from the bottom board to your floor to be at least 4", and 7" or more would be better. Out of doors in an open sided shed would probably be a better environment though.

Your oak should be down to 16% in about 6 months, presuming that it is 4/4 and dries over the winter. The 8/4 will require about a year or more.

One other thing - for the best drying rate the minimum distance from your stack to the nearest wall should be equal to at least the distance of all of your stickers added together. Your photo shows 16 layers, thus if your stickers are 1" thick your stack should be at least 16" away from the wall.

Regards,

Scott

[John Messinger]

Thanks Scott, I guess I better slow the process down.

[Jim Shockey]

All are giving you excellent advice. I wish I could have talked to Scott 10 years ago when started milling. If you could raze your log a little off the ground, it would be a lot eazyer on your back. Jim

[Danny Hamsley]

Scott is spot on as usual :). Oak will not mold nearly as quickly as pine. Sealing the ends of the boards, especially 8/4, will reduce end checking.

[Dick Aubochon]

Thanks Scott, I guess I better slow the process down.

Hi John,
Isn't Holderness where On Golden Pond was filmed? I've been through there several times, beautiful area.
Good luck drying your wood.

[John Messinger]

I fancy myself a man of words, but ... sometimes "Oh, that's SO COOL" is the best I can do.

This is one of those times.

I dream of building our fireplace mantel ... out of a tree that I found, and ... well ... obviously YOU know how the story goes, from there :)

Neat !Thanks, to take something from forest to furniture is something I am very much looking forward to. A mission style sofa is on my to do list.


All are giving you excellent advice. I wish I could have talked to Scott 10 years ago when started milling. If you could raze your log a little off the ground, it would be a lot eazyer on your back. JimOh boy do I wish I could raise those things off the ground more. A 9' log must weigh 1200# or more. Other parts of the problem are that the logs are on about a 10% grade, and they are right up against a wooden stairway/walkway.


Hi John,
Isn't Holderness where On Golden Pond was filmed? I've been through there several times, beautiful area.
Good luck drying your wood.Yep! The marina where the gas dock scene was filmed is about 4 miles away. The building where my son goes to school was an inn in its previous life. It is where many of the cast stayed during filming.

[dan petroski]

John i dry a lot of wood indoors just put a small fan on it to move the moist air away from it. in winter with the wood boiler running i can dry 1xs in about 4 weeks

[Mike Wilkins]

Nice stack. What you got cooking in the pan next to this stack?

[John Messinger]

Nice stack. What you got cooking in the pan next to this stack?Wax to seal the end grain, which should reduce checking.

[Larry Fox]

John - very impressive indeed. Question though - was / is it worth it? You have quite an investment in time/ effort / $$ there and you are a year+ away from usable wood (albeit a lot of it). I am asking because I have considered having someone come in with a portable sawmill and cut a tree or so for lumber but have always hesitated. This is a good chance to get an informed opinion from someone who has recently done it. Other choice is obviously to go to the lumber yard and pay the price (which is sometimes quite steep) and not get matching stock.

[Brian Kincaid]

John, you forgot "Advil and Aleve...related to three different factors...must be between 70F - 100F...airspeed simply hold a handkerchief against the stack

Scott,
I get the impression you have done this before. Thank you for the great information/lesson!

-Brian

[Brian Kincaid]

That is a beautiful stack of wood, but your experience reminds me why ~$1.50/bf graded rough cut red oak is worth it for me.

Still, it's not quite as fun or rewarding as what you have done there.

-Brian

[Cody Colston]

That is a beautiful stack of wood, but your experience reminds me why ~$1.50/bf graded rough cut red oak is worth it for me.

Still, it's not quite as fun or rewarding as what you have done there.

-Brian

I think that's the key. Sawing your own wood and taking it from the tree to a finished piece of furniture is a very satisfying endeavor. As a hobbyist woodworker, it's all about the journey. The economics of the operation is a distant second.

[John Messinger]

John - very impressive indeed. Question though - was / is it worth it? You have quite an investment in time/ effort / $$ there and you are a year+ away from usable wood (albeit a lot of it). I am asking because I have considered having someone come in with a portable sawmill and cut a tree or so for lumber but have always hesitated. This is a good chance to get an informed opinion from someone who has recently done it. Other choice is obviously to go to the lumber yard and pay the price (which is sometimes quite steep) and not get matching stock.


That is a beautiful stack of wood, but your experience reminds me why ~$1.50/bf graded rough cut red oak is worth it for me.

Still, it's not quite as fun or rewarding as what you have done there.

-Brian

Let's see with the new chainsaw, mill, chains, ladder and other stuff I had to buy (we will not count gear I already have) I figure I have about $1600 in this venture, yielding 250 board foot of wood. Thats $6.40/Bf.... yikes! Figure in what the orthopedic surgeon will charge for the back operation and the general surgeon for the hernia repair and it ain't looking too good.

But I am getting some nice quartersawn boards and my wife wanted that tree down anyway. So what the heck. Any time I see a nice tree that someone wants to give me, I can say "Sure, I'll take that off your hands."

[Scott T Smith]

Scott,
I get the impression you have done this before. Thank you for the great information/lesson!

-Brian

Brian, you could say that.... and thanks for the kind words.

Like many others, I started milling several years ago due to the desire to be able to "do everything myself." My first mill was a chainsaw mill, followed by a dry kiln. I've graduated up to a mill that can cut a beam 58' long, or mill a log up to 5' in diameter.

Today, my primary business is milling, drying and selling quartersawn oak milled from very large diameter logs.

Throughout life, lots of folks have assisted me; I pay them back by helping others. Sawmillcreek, NCWoodworker.net, and Forestryforum.com are all great places to learn and share woodworking and/or milling related info.

[John Messinger]

Scott,
I get the impression you have done this before. Thank you for the great information/lesson!

-BrianConcur! Thank you very much.

[Larry Edgerton]

Scott

Can you recommend any reading material that deals with small mill operations?

John, now you have that excuse to buy that tractor you know you want......;)

[Jim Shockey]

Let's see with the new chainsaw, mill, chains, ladder and other stuff I had to buy (we will not count gear I already have) I figure I have about $1600 in this venture, yielding 250 board foot of wood. Thats $6.40/Bf.... yikes! Figure in what the orthopedic surgeon will charge for the back operation and the general surgeon for the hernia repair and it ain't looking too good.

But I am getting some nice quartersawn boards and my wife wanted that tree down anyway. So what the heck. Any time I see a nice tree that someone wants to give me, I can say "Sure, I'll take that off your hands."

I had the same feeling when I started milling and before long I was just taking the trees that I wanted. When you do something,do it rite because it is a lot cheaper to do it the way you want it the first time rather than doing it over two or three times to get it the way you want it. It is hard to explain the feeling I get when I build something with the wood that I have milled and dried myself. You will get the milling bug then you will want to be milling all the time until you run out of room to store the lumber. I've got more oak and walnut ,up to 30 inches wide, than I will ever use. Jim

[Charlie Jones]

I have a Granberg mill that I use with my Stihl 066. The work is backbreaking if you cut a bunch at a time, so I've learned to do one log then quit for the day. I have some nice furniture that I made from the logs I've cut. I 've found that a regular chain filed to 10 degrees will cut faster and smoother than a Granberg rip chain. As for drying, I sticker the lumber outside with a cover. I Ignore it for a year or two, then I bring it into the shop for a while before I start using it. I havn't had any problems with the air dryed wood. Just build to let it move.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

I just went through the whole thinking-through of this a few weeks ago.

A neighbour at the cottage is cutting some big maples. He offered to drag the logs by ATV to my property. I had seen the Alaskan saw mills at Lee Valley and had told him I was thinking about buying one.

I did some research and found that I needed a much bigger chainsaw than I had hoped. Considering that I didn't own a chainsaw, had never used one, and am somewhat fearful of them, and the fact that I don't have much time to do it (only up on the weekends) I wrote off the idea and started thinking about paying a guy with a portable mill.

The other day, though, I saw an ad for this (http://www.woodlandmills.ca/) on Kijiji and my dreams of making furniture with wood from my own (well, close enough) property that I milled from start to finish started coming to me again. I figure a machine like that would only cost about $1500 more than I would have to spend on chainsaw/mill/chaps/rip chain, and would be much safer and easier to use.

I'll probably still end up just hiring a guy.

[Jon McElwain]

Good looking stack of lumber there! +1 on the Advil....

I milled a 22" dia red alder (closest thing to a hardwood in my area of Alaska) into 4/4 and 8/4 lumber a few years ago. Great experience, lots and lots and lots of work, but then I had a good supply of wood that ended up costing my around $1.50 per board foot.

I read the book "Conversion and Seasoning of Wood" by W.H. Brown - it was an excellent resource from a guy who has cut down a lot of trees and turned them into furniture grade lumber. I highly recommend the book to anyone setting out to produce their own lumber. He gives info on a home made solar kiln, species information, wood reactions with the wood used for stickering, indoor vs. outdoor drying, spalting/mold issues, seasonal and regional issues, etc. etc. etc..

In the end, I ended up waxing the ends of my boards, and stickering them with a slow fan to move air about all in a heated storage room off the shop. I had a dehumidifier running continually in the room as well to keep the humidity down. In addition, I rotated the lumber every two weeks for the first two months, then every month after that for a total of 6 months. After that, the lumber was down under 10% moisture and I called it good and brought it all into the shop. Several years later I have yet to use up the last of it, but it has remained stable.

One other piece of advice based on your pics would be to get a LOT more weight on the pile to keep those boards from warping. I had stacks about as tall as yours and I used as many 5 gallon buckets filled with sand as would fit on the pile - well stickered of course! Boards turned out reasonably flat and with a little jointer/planer work made some very nice "poor man's cherry" lumber!

Read that book!

[Scott T Smith]

Scott

Can you recommend any reading material that deals with small mill operations?

John, now you have that excuse to buy that tractor you know you want......;)


Larry, the USDA puts out a plethora of material on larger milling and drying operations, and it can be downloaded for free.

There are a number of books available, but without question the very best resource for someone wanting to learn more about small milling and drying is the Forestry Forum (www.forestryforum.com (http://www.forestryforum.com)). Similar to SMC, there are several thousand members from all over the world, and it is well moderated and full of friendly folks. Take the time to read the archives; you will learn everything that you need to know and then some.

[Mark Bolton]

Larry, the USDA puts out a plethora of material on larger milling and drying operations, and it can be downloaded for free.

There are a number of books available, but without question the very best resource for someone wanting to learn more about small milling and drying is the Forestry Forum (www.forestryforum.com (http://www.forestryforum.com)). Similar to SMC, there are several thousand members from all over the world, and it is well moderated and full of friendly folks. Take the time to read the archives; you will learn everything that you need to know and then some.

To add to this, there is tons and tons of fantastic information on milling and drying on woodweb. It was, and is, a great source of information for us with our small mill and kiln.

Mark

[Scott T Smith]

To add to this, there is tons and tons of fantastic information on milling and drying on woodweb. It was, and is, a great source of information for us with our small mill and kiln.

Mark


Indeed you are correct about Woodweb. Between the two forums, everything is well covered by RKI's (reasonably knowledgeable individuals).

[John Messinger]

Products from Irene:

Last Friday with Hurricane Irene coming over the horizon, I cut down three large pines on the East side of my house. Each could have caused severe damage/injury if they were to come down onto my house. The hurricane caused minimal problems in my area of New Hampshire. Hence, my clean up was limited to iatrogenic damage. One of the Eastern White pines had about 27' of straight, knot free trunk with a 20" average diameter. This was cut into three 9' lengths and the Granberg mill used to slab it into 4/4 pieces. I've got about 300' bd feet of 4/4 pine stacked andstickered in my garage.

206881

This pine was vastly easier to handle than the red oak I cut down last fall as the O.P.. The pine took only one long weekend rather five for the oak and it yielded about the same number of board feet.

[Carl Beckett]

John,I'm just down the road from you in Harvard MA, and have a stack of oak stickered outside since Jan 2010. The area around my house is prone to mold for some reason. Indeed, the wood is not looking too good- a lot of mold. Will see what comes off with a planer pass. How has your oak been doing since you stickered it?

[John Messinger]

John,I'm just down the road from you in Harvard MA, and have a stack of oak stickered outside since Jan 2010. The area around my house is prone to mold for some reason. Indeed, the wood is not looking too good- a lot of mold. Will see what comes off with a planer pass. How has your oak been doing since you stickered it?

The oak came out great when I dried it in my shop. About six months after I stacked and stickered it, I planed it. It had dropped from 50%+ to about 15% moisture content. No mold and no checks at all in the 4/4 stuff and minimal checking in the 6/4 and 8/4.

The pine is stacked and stickered in my garage. Heartwood is about 40% M.C. the sapwood is about 45%. I noted that the oak had MC readings that would vary by about +/-2% at most. This pine varies +/- 10% between readings, in both heartwood and softwood.

I no longer have room in my shop for wood drying as I am building another boat. SWMBO is not too happy about the wood occupying the garage. I am hoping I can get it into my shop before the snow flies.

[Charlie MacGregor]

John, not to add confusion but the white pine can be dried a lot faster without the risk of defect. (more airflow at the earlier stages of drying) Nice job!

[David Keast]

Thanks, to take something from forest to furniture is something I am very much looking forward to. A mission style sofa is on my to do list.

Oh boy do I wish I could raise those things off the ground more. A 9' log must weigh 1200# or more. Other parts of the problem are that the logs are on about a 10% grade, and they are right up against a wooden stairway/walkway.

Yep! The marina where the gas dock scene was filmed is about 4 miles away. The building where my son goes to school was an inn in its previous life. It is where many of the cast stayed during filming.

Lovely part of the world, my wife and I spent a very happy autumn day on the lake in a rental boat about 15 yrs ago. We used to come to NH and VT quite often in the autumn for the leaf fall.

Back on topic : Dont forget that air dried lumber will still contain its original share of bugs and beasties - not killed off by kilning - you will probably need to treat it before use.

[Jim Foster]

Outside ideally will have more moisture, so it does not dry to quickly, cooler temps usually mean less moisture which is not ideal right now, but outside should still be more moist than indoors. I've been told a thick paint on the ends is better than wax (I forget what kind of paint though).

Good luck, looks like a great haul of wood

[John Messinger]

Outside ideally will have more moisture, so it does not dry to quickly, cooler temps usually mean less moisture which is not ideal right now, but outside should still be more moist than indoors. I've been told a thick paint on the ends is better than wax (I forget what kind of paint though).

Good luck, looks like a great haul of wood

Well I don't know, but I been told, a thick coat a paint ain't got no soul! :D

[Jim Stewart]

you won't need to treat the lumber! any bugs will leave (probably left during sawing). As the wood dries it becomes undesirable to bugs. Nice stack of lumber. I dry mine in a open sided shed. Air dried lumber is so superior to kiln dried.

Jim

[John Messinger]

you won't need to treat the lumber! any bugs will leave (probably left during sawing). As the wood dries it becomes undesirable to bugs. Nice stack of lumber. I dry mine in a open sided shed. Air dried lumber is so superior to kiln dried.

Jim

IIRC bugs enjoy wet wood as well as the cambium layer between bark and sapwood. I have sawed the bark off all the boards. When it comes to bugs and boards: "If you cambium joint'em." Lordy, sometimes I'm just too clever by half.

[Jim Andrew]

I fell into this trap too. Looked at the forestry forum, and woodweb, and looked like a chainsaw mill would cut some wood, but at great effort. So, I bought a used manual bandmill. Now I need more buildings to put the lumber. What you don't realize at first, is that you also need something to handle logs, so either a tractor w/ fel, or skidsteer with forks, or forklift etc. And you need to organize a way to stack and handle the lumber. Then, you need to burn wood to use the wood that doesn't turn to lumber. I give away firewood, but find it hard, so maybe I should try to sell the stuff.