Advice on a Lie Nielsen dispute

[Pat Zabrocki]

Maybe I'm being too picky but I'd like opinions on the following situation.

I purchased a LN # 5 from a fellow creeker. You can see the post here
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=150930

As you can see, the desciption was brief and said "very good condition" with pics shown. I didn't really think I needed more pics as they seamed to show everything.

The pic below shows what I received. The gouges on lever cap are deep enough to catch your finger on and the blade is not a Lie Nielsen blade. A call to Lie Nielsen informed me that they have always stamped thier name on the blade. This was shown in the pic and I missed but I don't think it makes it okay. A quick search of Bill's user ID show's that he has bought and sold severl heirloom quality tools (Lie Nielsen, Veritsa, and Blue Spruce for example) so I believe he should have known that appearance as well as functionality are big part of the equation. He has not really responded to that directly but did say he listed it as "very good" not "like new" or "perfect". I can only wonder how he would react to recieving this from someone else

Bill offered to refund the purchase price and shipping if I paid shipping back ($20 or so).

I rejected the offer and opened a paypal dispute for the following reasons:
1) the blade is obivously not Lie Nielsen and should have been disclosed
2) the damage to the lever cap was the most obvious and should have been shown in a pic or disclosed (he said I should have asked for more pics)
3) anyone buying and selling these should have known the above was very material to the purchase and by not disclosing even if accidental should pay the shipping.

I'm eager to hear what creekers have to say. If I am out of line, I'll drop my paypal dispute and certainly apologize to Bill for escalating this. I'm not expecting anything from Bill based on this post but maybe he will let the creekers decide, too. We'll see.

sorry if I appear to be a whiner, but I don't think I am
please let me know what you think
thanks
Pat

[David Weaver]

That may be a lie nielsen iron. The old W1 (or something like W1 steel) irons did not actually say lie-nielsen on them, and if that has a standard style chipbreaker, I would guess that the iron is original.

I also wouldn't really care about the lever cap unless you paid new price for it, the ding can be worked out pretty easily.

I don't think it's something worth a paypal dispute over since it doesn't affect function of the plane, it's very shallow appearing, and if the plane gets used a fair amount, it's bound to end up worse from real -life dings or scratches - or especially rust.

Plus, in the future, if you decide you want to work the ding out, you can do it with any power sander (or even by hand) to a 320 or 400 grit finish and it'll be fine.

If its condition is something you can't tolerate, mail it back. Should cost less than $20 if you send it priority mail.

One other aside, I see a lot of people snapping up LN planes that have the old W1 irons and chipbreakers. There is nothing wrong with them, but I believe for everyday use with modern stones, A2 is better because you'll sharpen it half as often. If you want something equivalent to a current LN offering, make sure you ask the question of whether or not the iron and chipbreaker are A2 and the improved design.

[Pat Zabrocki]

It has the new style chipbreaker and the finish on the handles definitely suggest a newer model. Interesting comments, I guess I'm not so much interested in how to fix the plane but rather the way the transaction was conducted. I can only say I would not have purchased if everything was shown. It was to be a gift.

However, this is good to know. So far, maybe I am too picky. We'll see what others say and thanks for you opinion. Pat

[Bruce Page]

This should be handled off line through the Private Messaging system or through email.
I am closing this thread.