Design Help Needed

[Dennis Putnam]

I need some ideas for a design problem I am struggling with and I hope I can describe it clearly. Essentially I am looking for ideas to hide the intersection of shelves on the same level. Due to the constraints of the area I am working with, I need to break a shelf into 3 parts. The problem is that the opening is narrower than the interior area (1' of the shelving will be out of view on each side). The left and right supports will be "boxes," about a foot wide, holding 2 or 3 shelves. Those shelves will have elliptical curves where they come from behind into the opening. They can each be dadoed and glued to form 2 single units (left and right). The design problem is the top shelf. I want to span the 2 side units with a shelf and have it all look like a continuous shelf. Anyway, I cannot make the top shelf a single piece because there is no way to maneuver it into place through the narrower opening. So I need to design the side "boxes" with a top shelf and will support the center section (perhaps some stock decorative shelf supports) but at the same time I want something that will somehow hide the intersections but still leave the center section removable. I plan to use 1" stock for the vertical supports and shelves except the top. For that I will probably have to use 4/4 lumber to minimize sag in the spanning section. TIA.

[Jamie Buxton]

Can you make the top shelf full width, and put it inside the closet before you put in the side boxes? It goes in first, and hangs from skyhooks or whatever. The side boxes go in afterward, and the top shelf gets dropped down on top of them.

[David Cefai]

Jamie Buxton's idea would be my first choice. Otherwise can you make the top shelf a bit longer than the opening is wide so that the joins are out of the way?

[Dennis Putnam]

Thanks for the replies. The diagonal of the space from one upper corner to the opposite lower corner of the opening is less than the width of the inner space, so I cannot use a single board. That is my dilemma. If I make the spanning shelf wider than the opening, so the intersection is out of view, how do I attach the left and right portions of the shelf since they will then not reach the upright support?

[Jim Rimmer]

I'm having trouble visualizing this but thought I would take a shot at it anyway. See if I've got the basics: Two "box" units with a single shelf in each one that comes out to an elliptical shape but does not span to the other box. A top shelf that span both boxes. Is the top shelf the top of the boxes as well?

Can you make the boxes without a top, drop the top shelf in, put the top on and secure it with ell braces or something that can be removed if needed? Or if the top shelf is the top of the boxes, do that with the top shelf?

Or am I all wet? :D

[Dennis Putnam]

You've pretty much got the layout but I think you've missed the main problem. That, is there is not enough room (diagonally) to work a shelf into the interior through the opening (this was at one time a closet but now has a base cabinet and counter top built in). Thus the top shelf of each "box" and the spanning shelf must be in 3 pieces (or at least 2 but then there would be no support for the joint in the center). None of that is particularly difficult except the design of the intersection so that it does not look like an intersection but the center span is still removable.

I was thinking I could dado a couple of stock shelf brackets so that they over lap the vertical support and the shelves to form a "cover" at the intersection. However, since the shelves have to be 4/4, I doubt I can find any supports that are that thick. In writing this idea, it occurs to me that I might just fasten the brackets say 1/4" beyond the shelf edges and then attach some kind of 1/4" thick decorative tee to make it look like a single bracket on both sides of the vertical. Hmmm, time to head off to the store and see what I can adapt.

[David Thompson 27577]

Use either scarf joints, or "reciprocal" dadoes.

With the scarf joints, the end pieces (the box tops) have a 45 degree miter facing up, and the mid-piece has 45's facing down. So long as you get the dimensions right, it will fit and support. And you could use short screws in the scarf joint to keep everything aligned.

Reciprocal dadoes might actually be better -- there might be no need for the screws.

Depending on the length of this span, you might want to consider putting some shelf pins (or other support) in the middle. Any span longer than about 28" would benefit (IMO)

[Lex Boegen]

Could you put a sliding dovetail joint on the shelf ends, or maybe a tongue and groove joint, with a stopped groove (like a breadboard end)?