Powermatic 209 planer

[Jonathan Spool]

I'm getting tired of the lack of performance of my Dewalt DW735. Served its purpose for a while, but I'm tired of its inconsistant feeding of larger stock. Time to move up. I'm thinking of going 5HP 20". Any opinions on the Powermatic 209?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Sorry there is no way I would ever recomend a Powermatic product. For the money you would spedn I think you could get a better bang for your buck elswhere.

See my PM joiner and drill press threads.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jonathan, is there a reason you want a 20" planer?

Do you have a 20" jointer?

The reason I'm asking is that I went from a General jointer and planer (High quality made in Canada stuff) to a Hammer 12" jointer/planer and couldn't be happier.

I would suggest that you look at Felder/Hammer/MiniMax and get a high performance, high quality machine with excellent cuctomer support.

Regards, Rod.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Jonathan,

I bought a 15" Planer last year, A Powermatic 15HH. It's been fine. No problems with it.

If I was to do it again though I think I would take a very hard look at the 15" Byrd Head Planer from Grizzly. It does seem to be very comparable to the Powermatic and priced about a $1K less. Lot of bang for the buck with Grizzly and many satisfied Grissly owners here on the creek.

I went from a lunchbox planer (Rigid TP-1300) to a full size planer (w Byrd Head) last year. You are going to love the upgrade. Dust Collector is louder than the planer. You're not going to believe it.

Good luck with it.

PHM

Just my $.02.

[Jonathan Spool]

Rod,
You asked why a 20" planer if I didn't have a 20" jointer:
If I never did glue ups my planer would not need to exceed the width of my 12" jointer. While it does not make sense to purchase a jointer that exceeds the width of your planer, I find it convienient to run glued panels
and even sometimes cabinet doors (if I did a poor job on them) through the planer prior to the sander. So with a 20" planer I can run reasonably wide panels through, and then sand out any imperfections on the 16/32 drum. I could just use the 16/32 but then I would go through a lot of paper, and have to make more frequent grit changes.
Also, when I have a bunch of lumber to plane, I will start one length down one side of the planer, then pick up another length, and get it going down the other side. Cuts planing time in half. My 13" planer limited me to two 6" boards at a time. With the 20" planer I will run 3 of those, or a couple 8" pieces at a time.

[John Stan]

I have not had particularly good luck with my PM15 HH planer and especially with Powermatic's customer service. If it was my money, I would buy a Grizzly - they seem to stand behind their products much better.

[Zach Callum]

I have seen a couple of 20" SCMI planers for sale recently for a good price. There was one on ebay a couple days ago...

[Van Huskey]

I have a 15HH and have had 100% great luck with it. That said the Grizzly only lacks a small amount of the PMs value added features/warranty so I would probably look in their line. I know I am taking about a 15" planer and you ask about a 20" but to me the 20" is a waste of money...

I know, I know glue ups you say. BUT, my opinion is get a smaller planer (obviously as big as your jointer and the 15" four post generic planers are the "best buy" for a heavy smaller machine) AND get a drum sander. If you are talking about a 209 with a helical head (I wouldn't consider buying a planer without one) you can get the Grizzly 15" helical head planer and have over $2,000 left for a drum sander. In my view you will have a shop with more capacity and versatility for the same price. Currently the Jet 22-44 and 22-44 OCS are on sale and get you out with a Griz planer well under the cost of a helical 209.

[Jonathan Spool]

Thats not a bad suggestion Van. I'll have to think about that.

[Cary Falk]

Thats not a bad suggestion Van. I'll have to think about that.
I have teh G0453Z and an 18/36 drum sander and like the combination. A 22/44 would be even better.

[Jason Raksnis]

I went from a 6 inch delta jointer to a 12" grizzly jointer. I went from a 13 inch hitachi planer to a 20 inch griz. Ive never heard of one person that said, man I wish i would have gotten a smaller machine. This thing is just to big! Ive had times where i wish i would have gotten a 24 inch. Im on the lookout for a good 16 inch jointer to replace my 12 inch. I'll keep you informed!

[Mike Heidrick]

I do not know an owner of (and an owner with the space for) a well running and tuned 12" jointer and 20" planer who wishes for a 15" or 12" planer or a 12" combo machine of any quality.

Chances are if you can afford a 12" jointer and a 20" planer you can also eventually afford a drum sander.

My advice - buy the best tool you can afford - even if it takes you longer to buy all three. In the end, if you have room for them, high quality large seperates will be the best plan.

[Chip Lindley]

Jonathan did not specify that he wanted a spiral cutterhead. BUT, Buy Once, Cry Once! Regardless of head type, I would not throw my hard-earned $$$ away buying a new Powermatic. If you were to find a good bargain on a clean, used machine, that's wayy different!!

The Grizzly 20 with helical head would give you great results for around $2500. (watch for sales) The comparable PM 209HH with Byrd head is about $1300 MORE! There is arguably not $100 difference between the two machines if you dissect them! Many say these two planers roll out of the same factory in China.

A spiral-head 4-post 20" planer would be very useful for planing glue-ups before final sanding. (I am 99% sure that a 15" planer could handle 99% of most raised panels) But, I have had too much heartbreak of tearout to trust a knife-type planer to this task. Those cause even more work instead of adding convenience.

With a spiral carbide head, the panels could be planed within a "hair" of final thickness, then quickly final-sanded. If time is money, the spiral insert head will pay for itself in short order. That, IMO, is the 20" 4-post planer's strong suite.

Where all these planers fall short is the fact that none include segmented infeed rollers or pressure bar. If multiple pieces of stock are fed through together, all must be same thickness. A thicker piece will raise the infeed roller and thinner pieces will stop feeding. That is a real bottleneck!

The ideal 20" planer would include a spiral insert head AND segmented infeed rollers, etc. These do exist, but are the "industrial" machines, bigger, heavier and more expensive than any of the 4-posters.

[Bryan Cowing]

I bought the 20" 209HH a year ago, after having a 4 blade 20" for nearly 20 yrs. Very quiet when running, don't need hearing protection anymore! Planes large knots without ripping chunks out of the board, (test pieces) :cool: Hard maple comes out perfect. I used to use the drum sander to thin the last 1/16th on maple to stop all the tear-out :mad:.

[Mike Heidrick]

Chip, I have not yet been convinced to buy the byrd for my DC580 but I am NOT giving up my segmented infeed rollers for sure.

[Van Huskey]

Chip, I have not yet been convinced to buy the byrd for my DC580 but I am NOT giving up my segmented infeed rollers for sure.


Mike I think you and Chip pointed out something I use in the back of my head when considering planers. I see it like this, if you want to handle glue ups then a planer at least the size of your jointer but not oversized (would be a 15" 4 post for most) along with a drum sander makes perfect sense. However if you want to take advantage of the ability to reduce milling time by running 2 or 3 boards at one time then segmented rollers are something I would consider mandatory, though depending on your stock it may not be needed every time. Bottom line if time is money a wide 20+ inch planer with segmented rollers is GREAT, if it is a hobby and money is not an issue get what you want, but I would rather have a 15" planer and a drum sander with good capacity than a 20" planer alone if money dictates a one or the other senario.

[John Carlo]

Back in the 70's I bought a Belsaw 12 inch planer with a 5 HP Baldor motor and I think it cost me about $1200. It rivaled the Rockwell 13" I had at school. I did some moldings with it from time to time and used the ripsaw attachment once. I still have that planer although it sits mostly unused in the shop. I had a chance to pick up a brand new PM 201 22" planer for $2900 delivered and could not pass it up. It is an incredible 1300 pound machine. Well, I digress from the topic. My point is that I think the PM planers through 20" are based on that Belsaw design and it worked well for me.

[Van Huskey]

Back in the 70's I bought a Belsaw 12 inch planer with a 5 HP Baldor motor and I think it cost me about $1200. It rivaled the Rockwell 13" I had at school. I did some moldings with it from time to time and used the ripsaw attachment once. I still have that planer although it sits mostly unused in the shop. I had a chance to pick up a brand new PM 201 22" planer for $2900 delivered and could not pass it up. It is an incredible 1300 pound machine. Well, I digress from the topic. My point is that I think the PM planers through 20" are based on that Belsaw design and it worked well for me.


The 201 is indeed based on the Belsaw but the 209 is based on a 4 post design, which I "think" was originally a Delta design. The 201 is a serious step up from the 209 and about twice the price with straight knives.

[John Carlo]

Thanks for setting it straight Van. Mine is an older model with the 4 straight knives. It does a great job on almost anything. I had to plane some bird's eye maple for a friend once and I wish I had the new 201 HH with the helical head for that.

[Jonathan Spool]

I would love to have the segmented infeed rollers, but that in combo with a helical head would be over the top for me. When I plane multiple pieces they are all batch run, so they are sometimes actually the same thickness! Usually they will run through a planer together.
The most economical 20" planer I can locate is the Griz G0454 along with a Byrd head for $2404 shipped (plus tax for me). Its actually less expensive to get the straight blade model, together with the Byrd head, than the G0454Z which is using he griz stepped helical head ($2469+tx)
I am thinking that unless I stumble upon a great second hand deal around Seattle (and I might) I would be hard pressed to beat a 20" Byrd Shelix head planer for $2600 to my door. Upon Vans suggestion I did check out what a Jet 22/44 OS sander was going for and at $1699 its probably a great deal. Would be a great combo for me if I can swing it as I could use the 44" for my passage doors project.

[Rick Fisher]

I have the General Int 20" Planer which is likely the same machine with green paint. Miine has the helical cutterhead.

I have planed full 20" wide glue-up's in Sapelli, Maple, Oak and Wenge. (some might have been 19")..

The 5Hp motor is more than enough.. I have never even heard a moan..

The helical head is worth every penny.. I recently put fresh knives in the head because they where dull.. I plane lots of glue-up's and the glue dulls the knives.. That's life.. With sharp knives, its amazing, even dull its better than the old straight knife 15" I had.

The lack of segmented infeed roller is a pain.. Really annoying to try to plane a load of 1x3, but for a hobby.. I guess that's life too. :)

Dust collection is very good. I run a 6" system with 6" flex hose reduced to the 5" intake on the planer.. Works like a charm.

Built in casters make it a breeze to move. I think its an 800lb machine, so its important to me.

I have a 12" Jointer.. I have to say that for the type of work I do, the planer being wider than 12" is a major bonus.. I sometimes wish the jointer was wider too.. but again.. that's life :)

These are the annoyances..

When the carbide is dull, they get chipped. Removing the cover to replace one knive ( or turn it) means removing the dust chute and the cover.. not a big deal, but there are better designs out there.

There is a dead zone on the far edges of the cutterhead.. meaning you can get an unplaned lip on a really wide panel.. so you have to be careful.. or remove it with a block plane.. ( get your violin out on that one:) )

Lack of segmented infeed roller

When the blades are not sharp, boards tend to suddenly stop.. meaning I have to give them a shove to get them moving again.. Dual outfeed rollers that are powered would help here..

Snipe.. I get a noticable snipe.. Again, powered, dual outfeed rollers would be superior to bed rollers.. (all the $20,000 planers have them :) )

Not an impressive list of complaints.. Its a planer that costs much less than $5000.00 and as such, it doesnt have the niceties of the big Euro Machines.. but bang for the buck.. its a great machine.

[Jonathan Spool]

Is there much of a difference between the helical heads that are available. The head on my 12" jointer is a stepped helical (Grizzly). It cuts smooth and holds a decent edge. Does the Byrd, which is a "true" helical, being that the blades are taking a skewed cut, any better, either cut smoothness wise, or in being able to hold an edge longer?
How about the actual continuous spiral bladed heads that are out there?

[Cary Falk]

Is there much of a difference between the helical heads that are available. The head on my 12" jointer is a stepped helical (Grizzly). It cuts smooth and holds a decent edge. Does the Byrd, which is a "true" helical, being that the blades are taking a skewed cut, any better, either cut smoothness wise, or in being able to hold an edge longer?
How about the actual continuous spiral bladed heads that are out there?

I have a Byrd in my 8" jointer and the Grizzly head in my G0453Z planer. I don't see a difference in cut quality. I have seen many threads on this and this is a general concensus. Shiraz Balolia(the owner of Grizzly) has stated here at the Creek that he has used both and has not seen a difference.

I have never used the continuous spiral blade, but I have avoided them for several reasons. They are expensive and dsposiable so they are made not to be sharpened.. They don't look like they can be shifted when they get knicked. Since they are flexible, I would guess they they are not that durable. These are just speculations and maybe somebody can confirm.

[Van Huskey]

Is there much of a difference between the helical heads that are available. The head on my 12" jointer is a stepped helical (Grizzly). It cuts smooth and holds a decent edge. Does the Byrd, which is a "true" helical, being that the blades are taking a skewed cut, any better, either cut smoothness wise, or in being able to hold an edge longer?
How about the actual continuous spiral bladed heads that are out there?

As Cary said there doesn't seem to be a difference. The only "difference" I see is the Byrd is American made if that makes a difference to you. If I was buying one seperate from a machine the price difference is so close I would get the Byrd, if nothing else for the American factor.

[Jonathan Spool]

Cary,
Can you make any comment regarding the edge holding quality of the the two?

[Cary Falk]

Cary,
Can you make any comment regarding the edge holding quality of the the two?

Not really. The jointer with the Byrd has been in use for a couple of years of light use. I have not flipped the cutters yet. I have only had the Grizzly planer for a couple months and has seen very little use to this point.

[Rick Fisher]

Most of the actual knives are made by Tigra, which is a German Carbide tooling company. I believe that the Byrd, Grizzly and Magnum all use Tigra cutters.