Veritas Twin Screw vs. Benchcrafted Wagon/Tail vise

[David Wadstrup]

Hello,

This is my first post, thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'm about to get started on building my first workbench, and have been having a tough time deciding between two different vices. I was hoping someone out there might have experience with both, and can give me some advice. I've been looking at the Veritas Twin-Screw vise and Benchcrafted's Tail/Wagon vise. Let me start by saying that I will only be using this bench with hand tools, and that I envision doing a fair bit of dovetailing, hand planing, etc. by hand. Which would you recommend for the end vise position? I like the simplicity of Benchcrafted's beautiful wagon vise, but the Twin-Screw seems to have a greater range of uses and larger capacity(it's also less expensive.) Especially when it comes to holding boards vertically. The Wagon only will hold a 11 3/4" board or shorter, the Twin-Screw ones up to 24". This shorter capacity might be something I can work with, but I'm also afraid of the difference in how each vise holds the boards. The Tail Vise pinches it between its ends, whereas the Twin-Screw clamps it between its surfaces. Should I be afraid of play/bowing in the boards held in the Tail Vice? Also, I'd say that perhaps I could use the Twin-Screw in the front face vise position, but doesn't this seem like overkill? And aren't regular face vises, like the Jorgensens, better in this position anyways? And wouldn't having the Tail vice and Twin-Screw be redundant? What do you guys have to say? What set-up do you recommend? Thanks so much for your help.

Regards,

David

[Victor Stearns]

David,
Great question. I can only speak to the Vertias Twin Screw vise. I too had researched several different vises before settling on the twin screw. It has all the versatility that I need. I find that it gets used much more than the small front vise that I installed on my bench. If you do go with the twin screw, just take your time on the install. You will not be disappointed.
Victor

[Charlie Stone]

David,

They are both very different creatures, and I would recommend both styles. Not that I can speak first hand to the quality of either, however, I will say, you are better served to use the tail vice with benchdogs for some of your planing needs, holding your work horizontal on top of the bench, and the Veritas twin screw for holding work virtical either along the front or other end of your bench.

[Jeff Bartley]

David,
I looked at both when planning my bench and decided that I would prefer the Benchcrafted wagon-vise for the end position. After some 6-8 months using this vise I have to say that I absolutely love it. No regrets whatsoever, money well spent! And it was nice to know that I was supporting a fellow woodworker.
I'm sure the Veritas twin-screw is also really nice (as is everything else LV makes) but for me I liked the idea of a wheel and the function of the wagon-style vise.
I used inexpensive acme thread vise hardware for my leg-vise on the front which I do regret....it would be much nicer to have a Benchcrafted glide up front...but budget constraints ruled that decision. I like the leg-vise itself, just wish it had Benchcrafted hardware!
For dovetailing I'm planning to build the Joseph Moxon twin-screw vise that Chris Schwarz writes about here:
http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Joseph+Moxons+Doublescrew+Vise.aspx
Makes a lot of sense to me to have the work held up higher when dovetailing.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
ps: when you start considering bench-dogs my vote is for square-dogs!

[michael osadchuk]

I don't have direct experience with a wagon or tail vise but understand that the principal way they work is to hold work between benchdogs.

On my veritas twin screw vices, I put a dog hole in the top outside wood jaw aligned with a row of bench dogs at the front edge of the workbench and so have that functionality of a wagon/tail vise plus everything else that a vise that is as wide as your workbench can do. The twin screw vise is pretty strong and massive affair so I would think that it comes reasonably close to the amount of clamping power a tail vise can exert and probably for 99% of the clamping situations the superior in line (with the screw) clamping power of a tail or wagon vise is not called upon.

But I'm not sure that the veritas twin vise is an easier install.... it's not difficult but the instructions took me a long time to absorb before I felt confident in making the installation changes for my workbench.

btw, one new use I found for the twin screw vise was as a handsaw sharpening station .... the length of it allows gripping just about the full length of most handsaws.

good luck

michael

[Sam Joyce]

I have the Veritas twin screw as a front vise and once its tuned up it is a dream to use, definitly not overkill. I originally had a single screw with two stabilizer bars and wooden chop and found it incredibly frustrating. Constantly racking under pressure and the bars were always getting in the way.

I dont have a tail vice anymore for the reason you mention in that it can pinch boards upward. Plus you have to undo the vise everytime you want to move the board. I find a plane stop is simpler, cheaper and more effective for face planing. You can use two, one in front and one on the side to keep the board still even while planing crossgrain.

[John Coloccia]

The benchcrafted vice is very cool, but I would be lost without my front vise. If you really like the wagon vise, I would install both. Personally, I'd rather have a tail vice, or for hand work, a shoulder vice. Boy, I really wish I had a shoulder vice sometimes.

In fact, if I had my choice, I would have the veritas vice, a shoulder vise, and I would drop the wagon vice altogether. The shoulder vise is really great for sawing joinery, in my opinion. The Veritas is great for longer items, and also excels at clamping things to the bench with dogs, especially if it has two rows of holes like Sjoberg's on their Elite line of benches. I use that all the time for clamping larger items where one dog on either side just doesn't work.

I just don't personally find a tail vise all that useful, especially once you have a good vise on the end of your bench with multiple rows of dog holes. That's just my opinion, of course.

[Russell Sansom]

I have tried to figure out a way to put in a wagon vice. Or to install one in concert with a traditional tail vice. One gentle and affectionate turn of Krenov in his grave for talking me into the tail vice decades ago.
Let's say I need to plane the end grain on a couple drawer sides. It's just so natural for me to chuck one ( or both, since I generally pin drawer sides together and cut them as a unit ) in the tail vice, wedge a stick under it, and plane away. Takes me 20 seconds.
But from my years here at SMC it looks like we all have out pet ways and we all get used to what works for us and what we practice with.

[Gary Miller]

I've had the Veritas twin-screw for years and like it. But I am a fan of quick release & the Veritas does take some cranking.

As an alternative, I just installed and am using the new Len Hovarter quick release twin-screw vise. Brand new technology--and provides a quick release in a big twin-screw. Smooth movement, very tight qlamping w/ 1/4 turn. Check out his video and website. I am very pleased w/ the vise.

Have not tried the Benchcrafted vises, but I got their bench plans and built the Roubo syle bench and I love it.
Have fun
Gary

[Ron Brese]

David,

This is not a viable comparison because they are totally different type vises. If the comparison was between the wagon vise and a tail vise then the comparison would be oranges to oranges so to speak. Or if the comparison were the Twin Screw in comparison to the BenchCrafted Glide leg vise, but the two vises you mention are meant for different work holding purposes.

Ron

[Tri Hoang]

I like minimal obstruction in the front of the bench so having a twin screw vise as a face vise is out of the question. I think as a tail vise, the twin screw vise is a good choice.

I personally went with the wagon vise. I'd not worry about holding boards (1/2" minimal thickness/10" max width) vertically on the wagon vise. For wider/thiner boards, the leg vise + sliding deadman & clamp will do.

[David Weaver]

I would rather have a tail vise or the veritas twin screw on the back of my bench than a wagon vise.

My cheap bench has a single screw vise with guides on the back, I like being able to grip stock in it with the width of the stock perpendicular to the vise. It would be nice to have a nicer bench with a veritas twin screw, but it's not an emergency.

If I were using my bench only to dimension wood, I would probably have a different opinion (maybe), but I would appreciate the versatility of a veritas twin screw on the back of a bench most.

I do dimension a lot of my wood on my bench, but I use a couple of veritas bench blades, low profile dogs and scrap stock of varying widths to hold the work. I've never felt limited by it, the same way I haven't felt limited by the lack of a dead man because it's not difficult to clamp a piece of scrap on the apron of the bench.

[David Keller NC]

David - Ron has it right, you've got a few decisions that have been compounded together in your original post. These should be decided upon separately; the dcision tree is as follows:

Face vise or Tail Vise, or both?

Then, once that's answered, the next decision should be:

For a face vise, do I want a shoulder vise, a traditional face vise (twin-screw or quick-release), or a leg vise. For an end vise (if applicable), do I want a traditional tail vise, a wagon vise, or a twin-screw/quick release vise.

Finally, the last decision should be:

Which brand/design do I want for a twin-screw, leg, tail, or wagon vise?

Just as a note, many benches are out there, both contemporary craftsman-made and antiques, with both a face vise and an end-vise. There are also lots of benches out there with a face vise only (no end vise). There are very, very few extant benches with an end vise but no face vise (Asian planing beams excepted, of course).