PDA

View Full Version : Looking at Espresso machines



Tim Morton
10-29-2010, 7:27 PM
And I am thinking about buying this one as a jumping in point..

http://www.amazon.com/Breville-Die-Cast-Espresso-Machine-Refurbished/dp/B002EDYHPU/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1

It would be a bit of an impulse purchase if i bought it now, so instead thought i would sound you guys ( jim becker the espresso guru and others hopefully).

I have been researching grinders for the past week for a coffee maker and had decided on a baratza maestro...then decided that life was short and winters in vermont are long so i bought the Virtouso instead and figured that would help push me to an espresso machine.

I cannot...i repeat cannot drop a $1500 machine on the counter without getting a divorce....and as much as i love coffee i do not want to get a divorce over it.

So as a getting my feet wet is this a safe purchase if i research what "refurbished" means or should i be looking at something like the ranchillo silvia instead...it would not get me divorced...maybe just my own bedroom...

Or and i don't want to hear this...if i am not going to drop real money on the thing i should avoid it all together.

I figure if i buy the Breville and i hate it i will sell it and rethink it it at another time.

Jim Becker
10-29-2010, 10:10 PM
Tim, I speak from experience that the low end machines don't last very long and don't work too consistently. It was not until I went through three of them and decided to get a semi-pro machine that I got happy. That machine has been in service now since early 2005. I recently replaced the vacuum breaker on it, but other than that, it's been a trooper. When I figure what I would have theoretically spent for my required daily latté if I were buying it out as well as the costs for weekend breakfasts that we stopped eating out for, the ROI on my then-$1400 machine was less than a year. Probably six months.

There are some decent mid-range machines available. While they cost more than that Breville, they do not cost as much as the semi-pro machines. Talk with the folks at Chris' Coffee Service (http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso)...they can make a recommendation and even if they can't support your realistic stretch budget, I suspect they can point you in the right direction. But they are great to do business with. A genuine small business that offers personal customer support.

Joe Pelonio
10-29-2010, 10:25 PM
We have that one! Bought it new, about $200. We have worn out 4 cheaper ones over that last 15 years or so. This one, my wife says, is great, the only issue is the nozzle being a little hard to clean. It's used once a day during the week and 3-4 times on the weekend. As for grinding, we're real happy with the Cuisinart. Huge container, pretty quiet and has lasted several years, that gets used at least twice a day.

Eric DeSilva
10-30-2010, 9:54 AM
The Rancilio Silvio gets good reviews, and I'm sure you would be happy with it. As far as Breville goes, I've got their panini press and my overall feeling is that they are aspiring to be a high end appliance company, but missing a bit with the build quality.

Ultimately, I'm with Jim--I spent about $1500 on an espresso machine (a Salvatore semi-auto) about 10 years ago, and it has far exceeded my expectations. Both my wife and I drink a lot of coffee, so it is heavily used, and I'm glad I invested what I did. Aside from backflushing on a regular basis, I have done zero maintenance on it.

I'd look for something with an E61 group head and *weight*. Part of what you are shopping for is a boiler that gets up to heat and stays there--that requires mass.

Matt Meiser
10-30-2010, 10:14 AM
I've got a Breville Cafe Roma that I've had for at least 4 years now and I've been happy with it. The only thing I've replaced is the filter cup which got clogged after a few years. It gets used at least once a day. My grinder is a Krups burr grinder.

Mark P. Miller
10-30-2010, 10:16 AM
Moca pots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_%28coffee_pot%29

Shawn Pixley
10-30-2010, 10:52 AM
At the risk of hijacking the thread. The others have given you good advice that I will echo. After going through several espresso machines, we re-examined what we really wanted from coffee. For my part, I am relatively indifferent to whether it is espresso. What I like is really good and strong coffee. We opted to go to a high end coffee maker.

The secret to really good coffee is this:
Good beans ground right before brewing.
Store whole beans in dark airtight container in cool location (not refrigerated)
Burr grinder with adjustments to tune the grind for your specific brewing technique. Spin grinders heat beans too much.
Clean machine and clean water
Heating water to perfect temperature. (there is a maybe 3-5 degree F. range that gives best results.
Brew right before drinking
Never let it sit on a heater!

Some of the European self service, single serving machines are great. They typically cast 15-20K though. At work we put them in our affiliate offices. Good luck and find the brew that works for you. If you want good coffee cheaply, a French press can give excellent results (this is the coffee neander style)

Greg Carr
10-30-2010, 10:53 AM
La Pavoni

I have had mine for over 20 years. Almost daily use. Itialian made. You can buy Replacement parts from an outfit in New York. I have done a couple of rebuilds on mine. My only complaint is that it makes only a cup at a time.

Those screw togwther pots are a standard throughout the world. I spent years working in Italy, there is one of these on every stove. They make a great pot of espresso. I have a collection of these including a fairly large one I use to make multiple cups at a time. I use the Pavoni for frothing milk to go with it. You can find the serew together pots for under $20 bucks. Pick up a pack of spare gaskets.

The real secret is the coffee. I use Lavazza that I have sent from Italy in a large quantity for a lot cheaper than I can get it over here. I also use Cafe Bustello which I buy online from javacabana.com, this is a Cuban style coffee ideal for the screw together pots.

Here is a link to a Pavoni similar to mine. I paid considerably less than this for mine. If my memory serves me correctly around $200. When I bought I my wife thought I was crazy to pay that much for a coffee maker. Now she thinks it is one of the best purchases we have made.

http://www.amazon.com/Pavoni-EPBB-8-Europiccola-Espresso-Machine/dp/B00004S9GG/ref=sr_1_11?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1288448770&sr=1-11

Greg

Chuck Wintle
10-30-2010, 11:03 AM
not to hijack this thread but are there any opinions on the Saeco brand machines?

Dan Friedrichs
10-30-2010, 11:39 AM
Also not to hijack, but what exactly does an espresso maker DO? I mean, isn't it just a heater that makes steam and forces it through coffee grounds? Is there some other functionality that I'm unaware of?

Joe Pelonio
10-30-2010, 12:31 PM
It actually forces water through the grounds, the steam is for heating the milk and frothing it for lattes. The coffee is ground a lot finer than for regular drip, to concentrate the flavor and create the creamy coffee that is espresso. Not the same as regular coffee, though I do drink both.

Tim Morton
10-30-2010, 7:03 PM
Hijack away...its a discussion about espresso machines...there are hundreds of them out there. I watched a bunch if youtube videos last night...Seattle Coffee Works has a lot of informative info...nice to see the units in action.

Part of me is thinking if i spend $600 on a dvd player..then i should have no problems spending the $1500 on a espresso maker.

But as someone pointed up i don't have this huge desire or preference for espresso over coffee, and i when i drink espresso i almost always drink it with hot water....not much of a latte guy anymore, but that would probably change if i bought this.

I like the idea of getting into something cheap in order to learn what i like and what i don't like...i am not expecting a $200 breville or a $400 Gaggia, but i do think that the moeny i put into it will be well invested if i find its "not my thing".

Its just me in the house that drinks coffee..so this would lightly used....i will have to ponder it for awhile and decide....

Tim Morton
10-30-2010, 8:39 PM
I think i am narrowing it down to the Gaggia Classic or the Le'Lit PL041. These are both selling for $400 shipped, and seem to be decent entry level machines. I have read enough bad about the Breville to cross it off my list.

Doug Mason
10-31-2010, 12:12 AM
I had a Gagia classic--bought it in 2000 (for $450) and it finally gave out in 2008 (because I used hard water). It was a good machine--almost all metal. The machine turned me into an exspresso snob--and I much prefer expresso to drip coffee!! Unfortunately, the new Gagia Classic machines I see are mostly plastic now--and I would NEVER by a plastic expresso machine.

Based on my experience there is a threshold below which I would not go as far as purchase price for an espresso machine; I would say it is about $800. So my advice is stay above $800 and make sure the machine isn't plastic. Have you looked at CL for used machines?

Tim Morton
10-31-2010, 7:10 AM
Unfortunately, the new Gagia Classic machines I see are mostly plastic now--and I would NEVER by a plastic expresso machine.


I think you are referring to the Gaggia "pure" as being plastic.

The Gaggia classics are stainless and in fact better than they were in 2000...if you can believe what you read:

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Gaggia/classic.cfm

Chris Kennedy
10-31-2010, 10:07 AM
I have an entry level Gaggia (I forget what type, but it was about $200), and while its body is plastic, its guts are pure metal.

That being said, I think I have gunked it up using hard water. It doesn't pump as well as it did when it was new. I just cannot get the stream of espresso I used to.

To be honest, I really like the espresso from stove-top pots.

Cheers,

Chris

Tim Morton
10-31-2010, 10:22 AM
I have an entry level Gaggia (I forget what type, but it was about $200), and while its body is plastic, its guts are pure metal.

That being said, I think I have gunked it up using hard water. It doesn't pump as well as it did when it was new. I just cannot get the stream of espresso I used to.

To be honest, I really like the espresso from stove-top pots.

Cheers,

Chris

as i was reading this post, i was watching this video at the same time...the internet is a small world.

http://www.youtube.com/SeattleCoffeeGear#p/u/208/JRHhzin4tGc

Mac McQuinn
10-31-2010, 12:04 PM
I've been running a Rancilio Sylvia for 6 years along with a one year old Baratza Vario grinder w/ ceramic burrs. The Sylvia takes a bit of practice to achieve great shots although it's built well and is the small block Chevy of light Pro-sumer machines. Learn to surf the temps and/or add a PID to help and you will be happy. The only real drawback I see is the single boiler which makes multis and instant frothing a bit of an hassle. The new Vario grinder's ceramic burrs don't throw a lot of heat into your grounds, is very smooth and has multiple settings which allows greater consistency. Both machines are real workhorses. I roast w/ a I-Roast or stovetop stainless popcorn popper w/ thermostat and careful listening, IE. 1st pop, second crack.......Only way to get truly fresh coffee. Looking back, Buy a great grinder 1st and a reliable, well built espresso machine w/ good parts availability second. Read up on coffee roasting to understand it's effect on the coffee you brew & filtered water is your friend, it's a must. Good luck and have fun!

Mac

Zach England
10-31-2010, 12:22 PM
Onto the second page without someone saying "just put some Folgers in your Mr. Coffee, you sissies"...I am impressed.

Tim Morton
10-31-2010, 12:29 PM
Onto the second page without someone saying "just put some Folgers in your Mr. Coffee, you sissies"...I am impressed.

this reminds me of my first post on the creek about 10 or 11 years ago...it was something along the lines of...

I just moved into a new house and i am looking to buy my first table saw, what is your impressions of the $199 delta at Lowes:D:D:D

I ended up with a delta contractor saw whihc has served me well, and i have never felt the need to upgrade, although using a PM66 at work i sure get what everyone here is saying about you get what you pay for..so i am listening.

Caspar Hauser
10-31-2010, 12:55 PM
Onto the second page without someone saying "just put some Folgers in your Mr. Coffee, you sissies"...I am impressed.

I was going with, "Tea, it's a good drink, it keeps you going". The Weather Report?

Then the Wifey (attended university in Florence with two years stationed in Sicily) reading over my shoulder, points to this at $6.00, says she wouldn't seek a divorce if I were to bring one home.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&q=espresso+pot&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=16435997955467446708&ei=HrzNTIXZOoWKlwf2npnnCA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQ8wIwAA#ps-sellers

I'm still going with tea.

Jim Becker
10-31-2010, 9:25 PM
this reminds me of my first post on the creek about 10 or 11 years ago...it was something along the lines of...

I just moved into a new house and i am looking to buy my first table saw, what is your impressions of the $199 delta at Lowes

Yea...still a "tool" thread, too!

There is something to be said for investing in quality. I'm thinking that you'll end up doing something similar to the saw situation...start with a mid-range, but good quality "contractor brewer" machine and once you're truly hooked, you'll move up to the "cabinet brewer". :D :D :D

Rick Prosser
10-31-2010, 11:04 PM
I have the Saeco Vienna Superautomatica and am well pleased. I even posted a review in 2005 on it:
http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/saeco_vienna/reprosser

Still going strong today, although I don't use it every day (usually 2-3 times a week).

Steve Friedman
10-31-2010, 11:16 PM
Nespresso! Easy, quick, no mess, idiot-proof, and makes great expresso. I have used it every morning for at least 7 years and it have made me give up regular coffee. Only negative is you must buy the coffee pods from them.

Steve

Jason Roehl
11-01-2010, 9:41 AM
Sign your name sloppily, and you might be able to get a free one from one of those chain stores in Canada and a few northern states! :D (Owners have privileges, eh!)

Jason

Jerome Stanek
11-01-2010, 10:09 AM
Nespresso! Easy, quick, no mess, idiot-proof, and makes great expresso. I have used it every morning for at least 7 years and it have made me give up regular coffee. Only negative is you must buy the coffee pods from them.

Steve


We had a customer that had one It only lasted about a 1 1/3 years. It goes to trade shows so it is only used about 4 gays every 3 months. The inside plumbing is plastic and not very well made.

Zach England
11-01-2010, 10:24 AM
We had a customer that had one It only lasted about a 1 1/3 years. It goes to trade shows so it is only used about 4 gays every 3 months. The inside plumbing is plastic and not very well made.


Most gays I know drink a lot more espresso than that.

Steve Friedman
11-01-2010, 12:38 PM
We had a customer that had one It only lasted about a 1 1/3 years. It goes to trade shows . . The inside plumbing is plastic and not very well made.

Ouch, that hurts! Like many expresso lovers, I have a very special relationship with my expresso machine and am very protective of how it feels. I would guess that your customer's machine may have just reacted poorly to being dragged around to trade shows, being mishandled by strangers, etc. I treat mine kindly and with respect. In return, it continues to reward me with much appreciated expresso every morning without fail.

Steve

Eric DeSilva
11-01-2010, 12:52 PM
Gaggia is also a good name, as is Saeco. Don't know anything about Lelit. If you are in that price range, I'd also steer clear of Francis!Francis!--I bought one for my office and hated it. Although, oddly enough, the guy I gave it too loves it. Maybe it was because I was trying to use ESE pods when I had it.

One word of caution--having a good espresso machine is only a start. The perfect espresso is really a combination of temperature, pressure, grind, tamp and time. While the machine covers temperature and pressure, you need to experiment a bit with the grind/tamp and time to get good consistent results. Take some time to learn your machine's idiosyncratic tendencies--I have my espresso machine wired on a timer so it heats up for 45 minutes before I wake up, but even so, the first thing I do is let some steam out of it and let it fire the boiler back up to temp before I pull a cup. Don't have any idea why that makes my machine make better coffee, but it does.

Steven DeMars
11-01-2010, 1:03 PM
Bought a Gaggia for my son in college from wholelattelove. It ran non-stop in a dorm room for (5) years. It finally bit the dust when he brought it home and used our local water. . . .The dealer even sent him a cleaning kit for free to try to revive it . . .

Steve:)



I think you are referring to the Gaggia "pure" as being plastic.

The Gaggia classics are stainless and in fact better than they were in 2000...if you can believe what you read:

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Gaggia/classic.cfm

Prashun Patel
11-01-2010, 1:05 PM
We have a Saeco at work. Close to 10 years running. Nary a problem.

I have a reconditioned unit at home. Same experience.

I definitely vote for this item.

Joe Pelonio
11-01-2010, 1:11 PM
I was going with, "Tea, it's a good drink, it keeps you going". The Weather Report?

Then the Wifey (attended university in Florence with two years stationed in Sicily) reading over my shoulder, points to this at $6.00, says she wouldn't seek a divorce if I were to bring one home.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&q=espresso+pot&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=16435997955467446708&ei=HrzNTIXZOoWKlwf2npnnCA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQ8wIwAA#ps-sellers

I'm still going with tea.
That's cute, and would work camping. We used to surprise people when they saw us making espresso at campgrounds, using this little guy:
http://www.rei.com/product/401117

It cost $15 but now I see they have gone up.

I never tried bringing the real one to see if it works on the 250 watt inverter, that would be just silly.

Tim Morton
11-01-2010, 7:52 PM
I have decided to save up my pennies for awhile so as to not have to wonder "what if i had just gone to the next step"...

In the mean time i am going to buy a new coffee maker and if should serve me well for awhile until i have enough pennies:

http://www.digitalkitchenstore.com/ht.html

Matt Zuko
11-02-2010, 10:58 AM
If i was choosing between those 2 I would go with the Gaggia.

But I would like to suggest 1 other. It is the Illy x7, that uses what they call ipperespresso capsules. It makes excellent espresso, lattes, capachinos, anything you want and consistantly. There is no clean up and it is had to screwup your drink.

I have this and love it. We use it multiple times a day. I have had many other from $2,200 custom made machine to fully automatic machines. They either don't make great espresso, or require so much work to make a drink, that eventually you dont use it that much. Not to mention a significant amount of clean up.

I strongly recomment the illy iperespresso systems. They are awesome, and the machine is only around $300 and change.

Terry Wawro
11-03-2010, 2:05 PM
not to hijack this thread but are there any opinions on the Saeco brand machines?


Yes, The Saeco Aroma.

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Saeco/aroma_black.cfm

I own two of the older models. One for our home and one for our lake house. Plus my in-laws own one. They are priced right and work great. Had them for years. They get used every morning and I HIGHLY recommend them.

You have to have a good (not cheap but not gold plated expensive) grinder. This is the one we settled on.
http://www.wholelattelove.com/Baratza/maestro.cfm
It makes a nice expresso grind that gives me lots of creama.

You can occasionally catch the Saeco on sale for about $249.

So for $350 or so you are set.

BTW, after you get used to making your own, Starbucks tastes like watered down decaf.

Matt Zuko
11-04-2010, 3:20 PM
If i was choosing between those 2 I would go with the Gaggia.

But I would like to suggest 1 other. It is the Illy x7, that uses what they call ipperespresso capsules. It makes the most flavorful espresso I have ever tasted. It makes excellent espresso, lattes, capachinos, anything you want and consistantly. There is no clean up and it is had to screwup your drink.

I have this and love it. We use it multiple times a day. I have had many others from $2,200 custom made machine to fully automatic machines. They either don't make great espresso, or require so much work to make a drink, that eventually you dont use it that much. Not to mention a significant amount of clean up.

I strongly recomment the illy iperespresso systems. They are awesome, and the machine is only around $300 and change.

Eric DeSilva
11-04-2010, 6:31 PM
It is the Illy x7, that uses what they call ipperespresso capsules...

I strongly recomment the illy iperespresso systems. They are awesome, and the machine is only around $300 and change.

Here's the problem. I looked on the internet, and found boxes of capsules at $15/21 7g capsules. I can buy locally roasted artisan coffee at $14/lb. That means you are paying ~$0.71 per 7g shot, and I'm paying ~$0.23. I've owned my machine for about 10 years--call it 10 exactly to make the math easy. My wife and I both drink a double shot drink in the morning, she usually has a double shot drink later in the day, and on weekends we both probably have an afternoon cup, maybe more, plus occasional guests. So, say an average of 25 doubles a week. At a delta of almost exactly $1 per double, that is $25 per week. Over 10 years, your machine would have cost $13,000 more than mine in consumables. Yeah, my machine cost $1500, and even throw in a dosing burr grinder at $600, my lifetime cost is over $11,000 less than yours...

Greg Portland
11-04-2010, 6:57 PM
I would recommend this website for further reading, reviews, & learning: http://coffeegeek.com/

The reviews and commentary were very helpful when I was looking at grinders.

Greg Roberts
11-04-2010, 7:46 PM
I never drank a cup of coffee until my visit with my friend in Russia a few years ago. I was 44 years old then. When I got back to the U.S. after the trip, I couldn't believe how weak the coffee was! The Russians, like many Europeans, drink very strong coffee.

Anyway, after getting hooked on strong coffee, one cup at a time, the search began for something that would work for me at home. I started with the Aeropress, and that worked pretty well for a while, but for some reason I began to dislike the coffee it produced. I bought an $89 Espresso maker that lasted six months, and then the same refurbished model for $49 which I currently have. I'm starting to not like the coffee it makes. I don't think it's any different, just my tastes.

I just can't bring myself to spend even $400 on a machine. I guess coffee just isn't that important to me, even though I like to drink it every morning. I'm thinking of trying my best friend's method (not my Russian friend, but another friend here in the U.S.) of simply pouring hot water over ground coffee in a filter.

Greg

Matt Zuko
11-05-2010, 10:06 PM
Eric, I agree the capsules are considerably more. I should have mentioned that in the original post.

I prefer illy to most other beans, so even if I buy whole illy beans I pay a premium. Prior to this I purchased a Salvatore espresso machine, and grinder. The machine is awesome. Works fantastic and looks amazing. It is completely hand made buy a guy in California. The machine cost a small fortune, but I still love it. The part I realized I didn't love was the process of making drinks, and the cleanup.

The machine looks great on my counter and it can make great drinks, but my point is it was a little bit of a process to make drinks and after a while I used it a little less. Not to mention some drinks you don't make as well as other. And the clean up. And regular cleaning of the machine.

I guess my point is I never expected liking any type of capsule or pod espresso machine, but it makes a great drink, and to my family it is more practical - it's quick and easy with 10 seconds of cleanup. I don't look at it from a cost perspective, but more from an ease and convience.

Stephen Cherry
11-07-2010, 9:59 PM
I like the "french press" coffee makers. (I'm not sure what is french about them) They make a good cup of coffee for about 10 dollars. And you can foam up milk in them by first heating the milk in the microwave until very hot, then pumping the little screen up and down.

A capachino type drink on the cheap.

Of course, you need a burr grinder.

Darin Kauffman
11-08-2010, 1:42 AM
not to hijack this thread but are there any opinions on the Saeco brand machines?

I have one, and love it very much. It has never let me down. I have the Via Venezia:

http://www.saeco-usa.com/en/products/household-manual-machines/2/manual/0/via-venezia-espresso/1/via-venezia-espresso.html


Yes, The Saeco Aroma.

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Saeco/aroma_black.cfm

I own two of the older models. One for our home and one for our lake house. Plus my in-laws own one. They are priced right and work great. Had them for years. They get used every morning and I HIGHLY recommend them.

You have to have a good (not cheap but not gold plated expensive) grinder. This is the one we settled on.
http://www.wholelattelove.com/Baratza/maestro.cfm
It makes a nice expresso grind that gives me lots of creama.

You can occasionally catch the Saeco on sale for about $249.

So for $350 or so you are set.

BTW, after you get used to making your own, Starbucks tastes like watered down decaf.

Good info. I concur.

Jim Becker
11-08-2010, 9:20 AM
I like the "french press" coffee makers. (I'm not sure what is french about them) They make a good cup of coffee for about 10 dollars. And you can foam up milk in them by first heating the milk in the microwave until very hot, then pumping the little screen up and down.

A capachino type drink on the cheap.

Of course, you need a burr grinder.

You can absolutely do this for a fine cup of coffee including coffee au latté. That said, it's not the same taste as an espresso-based latté, although closer than other methods because of the nature of the French press. The key difference here, outside of the mechanism for forcing the boiling water through the grounds is...the grounds. Espresso machines force the water through finely ground coffee, resulting in a very rich, robust extraction including the crema, which is a golden froth that floats on top. French presses force the water through a much coarser grind. It's still rich...by design...but not quite the same in taste and constituency.

Good point about the grinder...a burr grinder is essential for the best coffee, no matter how you brew it. And only grinding what you are going to use that exact moment to make coffee is also important. I keep my beans in a sealed container and have learned exactly how much to put in my grinder by eye to create my morning latté with no waste.

Eric DeSilva
11-08-2010, 10:55 AM
Prior to this I purchased a Salvatore espresso machine, and grinder. The machine is awesome. Works fantastic and looks amazing. It is completely hand made buy a guy in California.

I love my Salvatore--mine's one of the SS semi-autos... I've owned it for about 10 years, and it gets used every day. The only downside to it I found was that it took forever to heat up--not just get the water to temp, but to get the head hot, etc. I've now got it hooked up to an outdoor timer, so it kicks on about 90 minutes before I wake up, which does the trick.

Johnny Kleso
11-08-2010, 6:39 PM
Another good place to buy from is http://www.1st-line.com/
They are in NJ and almost as good as Chris Coffee...

I got a Fiorenzato Bricoletta a few months backwhen 1st Line had a huge sale on them.. http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/fiorenzato/bricoletta_tank_lever.htm

Illy had Mini Mazzer Grinders on sale for Christmas free delivery with two lbs of coffee and I when for that deal as it was the same price as the Vairo but I wish I had got the Baratza Vario, it takes up less space is cleaner to use too..
http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/baratza/Baratza_Vario.htm

If this is your first machine get a Gigga Classic as I almost did or a Le'Lit
http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/lelit/index.htm

Try to get a good coffee grinder like Baratza Maestro (highly rated) the company has them refurbished most of the time..

Joel Goodman
11-09-2010, 12:50 AM
This is a great discussion -- I'm glad to find so many espresso freaks who also do woodworking. Perhaps they're is a connection! I have been looking for a machine for home as I've gotten hooked at work where the one luxury we have is commercial Brasilia espresso machine. One of my coworkers just got a Pasquini 90 which is pretty pricey but I figure at my age whatever I get should last me till I'm gone. So thanks for this discussion as it's really timely for me. I have about half dozen choices so please keep writing in with preferences and experiences. Any more Salvadore owners ?-- I like the 6 year warranty -- and the fact that he's sort of local to me.

Eric DeSilva
11-09-2010, 10:04 AM
The Pasquini Livia 90s are well built too--I looked at those before I bought mine. I mentioned using a timer with the Salvatore. I've also been very happy with the Pasquini Moka dosing burr grinders I own.

The only bad things I could say about the Salvatore are... Mine has a 2 liter reservoir for water that is nalgene. Probably would have been better if it was SS too, or something. Over the last 10 years, the nalgene has started to get a little aged, become somewhat brittle, and I'm thinking at some point I'm going to have to open the thing up and replace it. The second thing is that I sort of wonder whether the Salvatore is built with all the same safety interlocks that some more mass produced machines might have. Several times over the past 10 years while filling it up, I've spilled water into the top vent. The electronics are somewhat exposed, and the result is that the pressure shut off seems to stop working--the machine continues to heat, red light starts flashing, and the pressure goes through the roof. I generally unplug it, open the steam wand to let off the pressure, and let it dry completely before turning it on again. I tell myself there is a mechanical overpressure relief on the brass cylinder somewhere and that I don't have a giant bronze bomb in my kitchen, but I've never inspected it. Just be careful pouring water into it.

Norm Lincoln Sr.
11-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Add nespresso to the list.

Capsules are pricey but selection is varied.