lie nielsen chisels?

[Marty Barron]

I am thinking about getting a set of Lie Nielsen socket chisels for doing dovetails. Are they worth the price? Are there any sales that happen prior to Christmas? Is there a need to go to the long handle chisels if you have large hands or is the regular length adequate? I am not able to test drive the chisels.

Thanks in advance for any assistance...

Marty

[Prashun Patel]

You won't go wrong with those.

I would, however, counsel you to research a couple other brands b4 pulling any triggers:

Blue Spruce Toolwks gets excellent reviews.

If you are budget minded, the Narex chisels are an excellent value. You might consider getting a 'set' of these and then buy premium chisels in only your most used widths.

Just a thought.

[Charlie Stone]

Marty, if you are looking for a dovetail chisel, check out toolsforworkingwood.com they have some really nice round back chisels from Ashley Iles.
I may sound like a commercial for this companys website, however, I think their warranty blows away almost any other I have seen (1 year unconditional, you don't like it, you get your money back). I picked up a full set of the Ray Iles mortise chisels and absolutely love them.

[Dave Beauchesne]

FWIW, I love mine ( in Rosewood of course ) - they just work well.

I don't have experience with Blue Spruce or other premium makers - do your homework and try to get some hands on before you shell out the $$

Dave B

[glenn bradley]

Agreed that the LN chisels are very nice. Once you get to that price point, there are a lot of nice chisels so read the reviews (with a grain of salt) and check out owners thoughts on different brands (thinning out those who love anything they spent a lot of money on) and if at all possible, get to a LN event and lay your hands on some.

[Rick Markham]

I have zero complaints about mine! If I had to do it over again, I might have gotten them in 01, but I haven't had any issues with the A2 ones, so it is really a moot point. Now I want a set of their mortise chisels :D

[John Coloccia]

I have a set and they're very nice, but it's not the night and day difference that you experience when you go from a cheaper plane to a LN or Veritas plane. Japanese chisels are also very nice, as are Two Cherries, Pfeil etc. I mostly use LN and Veritas planes, but I have a lot of different chisels and I really don't have any complaints about any of them. Seems like when you get away from Home Depot chisels, there's lots of really excellent choices.

My recommendation is to not buy a set. Buy one or two that you need, and see what you like. Personally, I'm really starting to dig the Japanese chisels. They get very sharp and hold an edge for quite a while.

[Prashun Patel]

Now that I think about it, FWW did a review of bench chisels in 2008.


http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNPDF/011200038.pdf

The LN came out top.

The other one they really liked was the Matsumura Blue (if you prefer Japanese style)

[David Weaver]

Now that I think about it, FWW did a review of bench chisels in 2008.


http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNPDF/011200038.pdf

The LN came out top.

The other one they really liked was the Matsumura Blue (if you prefer Japanese style)

There's a funny thing about that. They didn't test the chisels at 25 degrees, which is where they should've been tested. The results would've been different.

The other funny thing is, and I have chisels from both (japanese and lie nielsen), Lie nielsen chisels, especially a2 if you will use them at 30+ degrees, are extremely tough, but of the japanese chisels I've used (and I have some matsumuras, too), koyama-ichi last longer than LN chisels, and so do some miyanaga blue steel mortise chisels I got (and I have an LN mortise chisel to compare). At the time they did that test, I think miyanaga chisels were in the same ball park, and you couldn't get koyama-ichi bench chisels.

Thanks to the exchange rate, japanese chisels become more and more expensive, and immediately so if you have to order them direct (though that is still usually cheaper, even though the currency fluctuation is immediate).

Anyway, those chisel tests should have, at a minimum, been done at 25 and 30 degrees in their entirety, because you will use a chisel as shallow as it lets you use it without sharpening getting onerous, maybe with mortising chisels being the exception.

[Jonathan Spool]

I have two sets of chisels. My Blue handle Marples, which get used and abused for anything I don't want to subject my Ashley Isles MK IIs to.
For the amount of hand work I do, which is primarilly making fine adjustments to my power tool work, or the occasional full hand tool project, I am extremely happy with the edge quality, durability, and comfort of the MK IIs.

[Jared McMahon]

Marty, if you are looking for a dovetail chisel, check out toolsforworkingwood.com they have some really nice round back chisels from Ashley Iles.


I just noticed these a day or two ago, does anyone have first-hand experience with them? They're intriguing critters.

As far as chisels generally, I have been contemplating the LN's for a while but saw some first-hand at my local Woodcraft store and they look surprisingly small. The only chisels I have currently are rehabbed Swan firmers but I really appreciate their length and heft. This really brought home people's advice to lay hands on whatever you aim to buy. I'm definitely going to go back and ask to handle the chisels for a while before pulling the trigger on anything.

[David Weaver]

I have two sets of chisels. My Blue handle Marples, which get used and abused for anything I don't want to subject my Ashley Isles MK IIs to.
For the amount of hand work I do, which is primarilly making fine adjustments to my power tool work, or the occasional full hand tool project, I am extremely happy with the edge quality, durability, and comfort of the MK IIs.

Even if you used them all the time and had no power tools, they'd be fine.

[Charlie Stone]

I haven't tried these, but the mortise chisels are AWESOME! and again, the people at this company will give you your money back if you don't like them for ANY reason (other then broken by abuse). Even if you thought the handles didn't look good in your tool cabinet.

[Ken Masco]

Marty,
I bought a set of them last year and they are great! All I have to compare them to though are the Marples which I used (and abused) for almost 18 years. The handels on the LN are easily removeable with a slight tap on the side. I bought one extra handel ( a long one) and find I'm using the standard handel most of the time although the longer handel has come in handy a few times.

[Andrae Covington]

As far as chisels generally, I have been contemplating the LN's for a while but saw some first-hand at my local Woodcraft store and they look surprisingly small. The only chisels I have currently are rehabbed Swan firmers but I really appreciate their length and heft. This really brought home people's advice to lay hands on whatever you aim to buy. I'm definitely going to go back and ask to handle the chisels for a while before pulling the trigger on anything.

If possible, it would be great to handle the chisels before buying. Though I believe Lie Nielsen has a generous return policy. The first set of chisels I bought were Narex, and having never seen them in person I must say I was surprised how big the handles were. I recently bought an Ashley Iles Mk2 and the smaller handle is more comfortable for me. The opposite problem from Jared but same basic issue.

I agree with the advice to buy a size or two to try out first. You might try a couple or three different brands, especially if you can send one back if you don't like the size and shape.


I just noticed these [round-back Ashley Iles] a day or two ago, does anyone have first-hand experience with them? They're intriguing critters.

No personal experience, I debated buying one instead of the Mk2, especially since I bought it to do dovetails. I think Joel Moskowitz posted somewhere (may have been another forum) that he likes the roundbacks even more than the Mk2's. Maybe when I go to order another size I will try one of those.

[Tom Henderson2]

I am thinking about getting a set of Lie Nielsen socket chisels for doing dovetails. Are they worth the price? Are there any sales that happen prior to Christmas? Is there a need to go to the long handle chisels if you have large hands or is the regular length adequate? I am not able to test drive the chisels.

Thanks in advance for any assistance...

Marty

LN stuff is wonderful and you won't regret owning a set of their chisels.

"Worth the money" is a tough question though... and a hard thing to judge. Others have suggested alternatives which are probably a bit less expensive.

BUT -- if you decide you don't like the LN you can probably sell the set easily for 75% or more of what you paid. Same for Blue Spruce.

The longer handles are the same diameter, so if the small ones are too small for your hands, the large ones will be too. But the only way to know is to hold one... so if you can't find one to hold before you buy, make sure you can return them.

If there is a Lie-Nielsen "Handtool Event" in your area, it would be the perfect opportunity to test-drive all their tools. Check the LN site.

LN does not have sales, and I have not seen any of their dealers discount in the last couple of years. So don't expect to find a sale. Some dealers will provide free shipping, as will LN if you attend one of their hantool events. But that is about the only discount you will find.

Craftsman Studio is an excellent LN dealer, and they provide free shipping for orders over $75. Find them at www.craftsmanstudio.com

Hope this helps.

-TH

[Josh Rudolph]

I am thinking about getting a set of Lie Nielsen socket chisels for doing dovetails. If they are only for dovetails...you may want to consider a dovetail specific chisel. Czeck Edge has some nice one's I handled at WIA.

Are they worth the price? That all depends on your definition of worth. This is a set that will last your lifetime. To me they are worth it...that is why I bought the 5 piece set at WIA. I considered the Blue Spruce...they are absolutely gorgeous, to the point I wouldn't want to use them, they are $140 more. The LN were at my high limit anyhow for what I wanted to spend. I looked at the Ashley Iles set also quite a bit at WIA, but really wanted the socket set.

Are there any sales that happen prior to Christmas? Only sales that I am aware of are the free shipping offered at events

Is there a need to go to the long handle chisels if you have large hands or is the regular length adequate? Are you chopping out the dovetails or paring? If mostly chopping, you will do fine with the standard handles. If paring...the longer handle will help with control.

I am not able to test drive the chisels. That really wouldn't sway me either...I have yet to pick up a tool I didn't like. :D Just found ones I prefer more than another.

I have yet to get much use with my set yet, but am confident they will meet my needs and expectations.

Good luck with your decision.

[Christopher Charles]

If possible, it would be great to handle the chisels before buying. Though I believe Lie Nielsen has a generous return policy. The first set of chisels I bought were Narex, and having never seen them in person I must say I was surprised how big the handles were. I recently bought an Ashley Iles Mk2 and the smaller handle is more comfortable for me. The opposite problem from Jared but same basic issue.

I agree with the advice to buy a size or two to try out first. You might try a couple or three different brands, especially if you can send one back if you don't like the size and shape.



No personal experience, I debated buying one instead of the Mk2, especially since I bought it to do dovetails. I think Joel Moskowitz posted somewhere (may have been another forum) that he likes the roundbacks even more than the Mk2's. Maybe when I go to order another size I will try one of those.

I have had a set of the AI round back chisels for about two years now and have gotten through a couple of projects with them. They complement my 10 year old Marples blue handles that I still use for heavier work.

Joel told me over the phone that they had become his favorites when I ordered them. They were releatively easy to set up, the O1 steel is straightforward to sharpen and holds an edge for a noticably longer time than the Marples. I really like the feel and balance of the chisels (I'm 6' 0" with medium-large hands) and the round backs are especially nice to my hands. I got these when they were $150 for the set, which seemed like a very good deal ($25 chisel vs. 2x that for LN). I like them enough that I filled out the set with the 1/2" adn 3/4".

All of that said, if I could only buy a single set, the LN with a couple of skew chisels or a set of quality japanese chisels might be better for all around tasks for the average wood worker. But as the OP said, as a dedicated dovetail/paring/light work set, I think the AI round backs are both great and still a good value (e.g., can buy the AI and a set of Narex for the cost of the LN). I'm planning to get a couple of mortise chisels at some point for the really heavy stuff and doubt I'll ever need anything else. If you happen to be in North Idaho, come by and you can test drive mine...

Good luck, don't think you can make a wrong choice.

[Zach England]

I have LN bevel-edge chisels, mortise chisels and a few fishtail and corner chisels to go with them. They look so nice all lined up on the chisel rack.

[Doug Shepard]

I picked up a set of LN chisels (A2) a few years ago and love them.They take and hold an edge much longer than my set of Marples blue handles. My only issue with the LNs is that I couldn't get the handles to stay seated in the sockets until I finally added a dollop of West epoxy in the sockets and drove the handles in. I also have to really watch how I slide the LNs into the leather tool roll. They're so sharp I've skewered the bottom of the pouches a number of times if not slid in slow and straight. They just slice on through with zero resistance. That never would have happened with my Marples without a concerted push through the leather.

[Dan Karachio]

If looking at other brands, be wary of metric. I bought a set of Pfeil's as a knee jerk purchase at Woodcraft and although they are very nice, they are *close* to standard sizes, but not exact and that has made things a little weird with some tasks (like cleaning out a 1/4" mortise - I do need mortise chisels don't I?). Now of course I fantasize about having a nice rack of chisels, the Pfeil's and another set PLUS mortising chisels... It never ends.

[Pedro Reyes]

If looking at other brands, be wary of metric. I bought a set of Pfeil's as a knee jerk purchase at Woodcraft and although they are very nice, they are *close* to standard sizes, but not exact and that has made things a little weird with some tasks (like cleaning out a 1/4" mortise - I do need mortise chisels don't I?). Now of course I fantasize about having a nice rack of chisels, the Pfeil's and another set PLUS mortising chisels... It never ends.

Not wanting to create controversy, but... why do you consider that having a 1/4" mortise is better than a 6mm one? I have a pigsticker which is neither metric nor imperial, most of what I do requires precision not necessarily accuracy. Cutting a tenon to 6mm is the same as cutting it to 1/4", same goes for a tounge. Just curious.

peace

/p

[george wilson]

6mm is about .236" unless I am forgetting my mm to inch conversion.

[Mark Stutz]

Not wanting to create controversy, but... why do you consider that having a 1/4" mortise is better than a 6mm one? I have a pigsticker which is neither metric nor imperial, most of what I do requires precision not necessarily accuracy. Cutting a tenon to 6mm is the same as cutting it to 1/4", same goes for a tounge. Just curious.

peace

/p

Pedro,
It could matter depending on the application. Mortices done for doors are easier for me if I plow the groove for the panel first. I can use the sides of the groove to help align the mortice chisel making it easier to avoid doors frames that resemble pretzels. If you have plow irons in both 6mm and 1/4 in it won't matter but it's easier if both are the same size.

Mark

[Pedro Reyes]

Pedro,
It could matter depending on the application. Mortices done for doors are easier for me if I plow the groove for the panel first. I can use the sides of the groove to help align the mortice chisel making it easier to avoid doors frames that resemble pretzels. If you have plow irons in both 6mm and 1/4 in it won't matter but it's easier if both are the same size.

Mark

Agree, this is one of those (rare for me) cases.

I guess the point I was trying to get across was that (to me) woodworking is more about copying, e.g. cutting a tenon (or a dado) and then making sure the mortise (or the tounge) is the same as the previously cut part... much more so than making sure they are both any given measurement (1/4" or 6mm). Mortise gauges, cutting wheels, marking gauges generally are fine without graduations, because you use them to transfer more than to measure.

But your point is very valid.

/p

[George Moore]

I have the L-N chisels and love them except with arthritic hands the handles are small. I talked with L-N and bought the handles for their mortise chisels which are larger. That really helped me with using them.

Have a Blessed day.
George

[Shawn P. Smith]

Marty, the LN chisels are worth the money. They are wonderful chisels.

I have a set of the Lie Nielsen A2 chisels and a few Blue Spruce Chisels. When cutting dovetails I reach for the Blue Spruce chisels for my final paring cuts. I can take a finer and more controlled cut with them. But this is just my preference. You won't go wrong with either one. I definitely recommend trying to find someone in your area who has both brands and trying them for yourself. Or, order 1 chisel from each maker and get a feel for them before purchasing a whole set.

The bench chisel review that FWW magazine conducted was before Blue Spruce offered their bench chisels. The review compared the BS dovetail chisels against the other manufacturer's bench chisels, so it wasn't comparing apples to apples. The BS bench chisel is a little longer than their dovetail chisel and is constructed so it can be hit with a mallet. The BS dovetail chisels are a little shorter and lighter, and I do not strike them with anything other than my palm. The shorter length gives me more control and the lightness gives a better feel for the cut. Their fishtail chisels are my go-to chisels when finishing up dovetails.

You won't go wrong with either brand, but as I have stated, my preference is for the Blue Spruce when dovetailing. I will be adding some more of their chisels to my set in the near future.:)

[Don Dorn]

I guess I'm one who didn't consider them expensive. It's not that I had the money to spare, but once I bought them, my search for the best chisels I could find were over. Not buying others to try made the purchase cheaper in the long run.

That said - my Marples are not bad chisels, nor or my Japanese chisels even though they are not high end. The LNs gave the bevel I wanted and needed for dovetails. I found that they lose the razor sharp edge fairly quickly, but retain a great working edge far longer than anything else I've used. I've only sharpened about three times and have had them for a year or more and use them quite often.

[Scott Stafford]

I picked up a set of LN chisels (A2) a few years ago and love them.They take and hold an edge much longer than my set of Marples blue handles. My only issue with the LNs is that I couldn't get the handles to stay seated in the sockets until I finally added a dollop of West epoxy in the sockets and drove the handles in. I also have to really watch how I slide the LNs into the leather tool roll. They're so sharp I've skewered the bottom of the pouches a number of times if not slid in slow and straight. They just slice on through with zero resistance. That never would have happened with my Marples without a concerted push through the leather.

You know Doug, I was about ready to epoxy my LN handles on when an old idea from my motorcycle days struck me. Hairspray... we used to glue our handlebar grips on with hairspray!

I cleaned my handles and the sockets with mineral spirits, sprayed the sockets with a short burst of cheap hairspray (Aquanet?), inserted the handle, and gave the chisel a good whack into a piece of poplar. Even as dry as it is here in Montana, I've never had one come loose.

Yet, when I want to get a handle off, I give it a sideways rap on the bench and it pops loose. To reinstall, I repeat the adhesion procedure. The mineral spirits disolves the old hair quickly so you're back to new.

Scott in Montana

[Thomas Kila]

Cool tip, Scott. I think I may try that.

[Tim Sgrazzutti]

Try inserting them into the tool roll with the bevel down.....I haven't sliced through mine since I started doing that.

[Karl Fife]

Hairspray... we used to glue our handlebar grips on with hairspray!
...To reinstall, I repeat the adhesion procedure. The mineral spirits disolves the old hair quickly so you're back to new.


Funny! And I though that hairspray was only a bicycle shop trick. The tip about mineral spirits is new to me. Thanks for sharing!

[Jim Neeley]

The old-fashioned hairspray to which people refer is primarily made of shellac which serves as a light glue, holding the handles on. denatured alcohol (or everclear :) ) will work to remove it as well.

I say this because some of the "newfangled" hair sprays that don't include shellac may or may not work well.

One simple (and more macho) alternative is to buy a small container of shellac.

Shellac, if invented today, would be considered a miracle product.. tremendous amounts of it are used to coat pills, baby cribs, etc., because (when mixed with the right alcohols for application) is non-toxic after drying.

Jim in Alaska

[John Sanford]

I am not able to test drive the chisels. That really wouldn't sway me either...I have yet to pick up a tool I didn't like. :D Obviously, you've never been to Harbor Freight. ;) :p

[Matthew Hills]

I am thinking about getting a set of Lie Nielsen socket chisels for doing dovetails. Are they worth the price? Are there any sales that happen prior to Christmas? Is there a need to go to the long handle chisels if you have large hands or is the regular length adequate? I am not able to test drive the chisels.

Thanks in advance for any assistance...


The LN chisels are my favorites, primarily for the balance and the way they fit in my hand. As others have said, the handles are small... but this is more of a grip thing than a size-of-the-hand thing. I've also got Koyamaichi chisels and some Ashley Iles chisels. The working end on all are fine; and I find myself choosing primarily on the handle. (The Japanese chisels have the hoop; the Ashley Iles have a huge handle with a lot of weight)

Derek's review of the Veritas Bench Chisels (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasChiselReview.html) had some good comments about chisel handles. His photos here contrasting how the Veritas handle and a Stanley handle (similar to the LN) fit his hand illustrate this nicely:
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasChiselReview_html_20b657f9.jpg
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasChiselReview_html_67c78155.jpg

Matt

[Mike Henderson]

Note that this thread was started about a year and a half ago.

Mike