Mortise and Tenon - I am ready

[Dan Karachio]

As I get into making actual furniture, nothing is more satisfying than a good M&T joint. They are fun, but I want better results and I want bigger!

I want to buy a mortiser and a tenon jig. For the mortiser, I think the General bench top is the bench top to get. Is it? Opinions welcomed. I don't mind spending for this. What about bits? Who makes good ones please?

Tenon jigs (for the TS) are frustrating. From many posts, it seems they all are kind of junky with really spotty quality control. Does anyone make a good one that is reliable out of the box? Dumb question - what blade do you all use with a tenon jig? Rip? Combo?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dan,

I have the General International benchtop mortiser. It works great.

I also have the Rockler tenoning jig. It works well too. Almost all of the tenoning jigs are very, very similar.

One thing to watch for when you buy a tenoning jig. Check the distance from the saw blade to your miter slot on your tablesaw...get that measurement and make sure the tenoning jig will set up for that distance. The miter guide bar on the Rockler has 2 positions...in other words...there are 2 sets of screw holes so that the bar that rides in the miter slot will allow the jig to set up midway within the adjustment range of the jig....at 2 different distances. Not all miter slots are the same distance from the blade.

[Stephen Cherry]

I've got the older non-tilting powermatic 719, which I think looks just like the general. I use the el cheapo woodcraft bits, which seem to be OK. Mortise machine bits live a hard life.

For the tenons, I bandsaw cheeks, using a shim to match the desired width (one cut with shim, one without, resulting in a tenon of proper width-- the shim need to match the mortise bit). Shoulders on the table saw.

[Neal Clayton]

Dumb question - what blade do you all use with a tenon jig? Rip? Combo?

dado. all the surfaces need to be really flat, not kinda flat.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Dan - I second the advice above. Measure your table and the tenoning jig. I have the Delta tenoning jig, and it's OK but was not good "right out of the box". plus, on my old saw, because of the distance from the miter slot to the blade, it would never actually read 'zero' on the gauge so I always had to use a tape. Also, a dado blade - or at the very least, not a Hi-ATB blade, which would likely leave a little 'notch' in the tenon if not very careful.

[Gary Herrmann]

The LV mortise bits work very well. If you get lucky, you may be able to find an old Delta 1172 tenon jig...

[Rod Sheridan]

Dan, I've owned the GI mortiser for 8 years and made thousands of mortices with it, great machine.

When I cut tenons on the tablesaw I used a rip blade for the cheek cuts since it's a ripping operation.

Regards, Rod.

[Will Overton]

Dan,

I have a Craftsman/Orion mortiser and it works fine. However, everything I've read about the General says it is an excellent machine. I don't think you will be sorry with that purchase.

My tenoning jig is a Delta "184". Out of the box, you do need to set it up. One of the pluses mentioned in reviews is the handle placement on this jig. It's the only one I ever had, so I don't know if this really makes it better, but it works great. I do use it following the directions that come with it, rather than the way Norm used it.

For a blade, I agree with what was said above ... rip blade.

[John Coloccia]

Don't forget about the Leigh Super FMT.

[Dan Karachio]

But John, I want square mortises! :D Seriously, I do. Want to do some craftsman style joinery.

I guess buying a tenon jig is low risk for the $ involved, but maybe I will make one of those instead.

[glenn bradley]

When I was looking at benchtop mortisers I did my usual exhaustive research. No offense to anyone who has any particular machine but, I didn't find anything worth the effort till you got to the General 75-050T. Even then, those happy owners had eventually upgraded to better chisels (add another $100+).

I decided on the Mortise Pal and have been very happy. There are many happy benchtop mortiser owners here and I would listen to them if you are set on a machine. The main complaint I found was that the mortises were NOT square overall; they were a series of square holes that sorta lined up; the General being the exception. This is a non-issue (as no one sees them) until you want through mortises (which I do).

Just my experience and worth exactly what you paid for it ;-)

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

The main complaint I found was that the mortises were NOT square overall; they were a series of square holes that sorta lined up; the General being the exception. This is a non-issue (as no one sees them) until you want through mortises (which I do)

Hmm...I think this is good advice. I noticed the 'series of square holes' issue when I first tried out my benchtop. I've found that it can be remedied, but it does take some extra care to make the chisel perpendicular to the fence, that's for sure.

[Terry Welty]

I've got a super cheap Harbor Freight mortiser... but it works great because I added a cross-slide vise... works great even with a crappy mortiser... mine is kinda like this, but different.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=shop&file=articles_414.shtml

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Stay away from powermatic. At the price point it goes for they will not support it. I have had nothing but bad luck with powermatic tools.

[harry boyer]

I bought the leigh Super Fmt this summer. Built the jigs they suggested to hold the work. Bottom line, I'm very happy with the setup. I also have the Delts bench top mortiser. I like both of them but for diff. reasons. Since we grow in woodworking. I like the Fmt a little better. I got into chairs with compound angle joints the FMT is really nice. I found that cutting the tenon shoulder was a little tricky on the compound angle tenon. The FMT eliminates an extra setup on the tablesaw or band saw. The half inch bit cuts up to 2.25 inches. I'm plunge cutting some thru mortses using a backing board. Just another idea, I'm not an expert

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I have to second the FMT. Great machine.

[Paul Murphy]

For the tenons, I bandsaw cheeks, using a shim to match the desired width (one cut with shim, one without, resulting in a tenon of proper width-- the shim need to match the mortise bit). Shoulders on the table saw.

Stephan has a great tip here, and it works with vertical tenon jigs on the tablesaw as well. Using a shim means you only have to setup the initial offset for your cut, and it also means you'll get the same thickness tenon even when cutting tenons in stock of a different thickness, or when you mught need an offset tenon for some of the pieces.

[Charles Goodnight]

I made this tenoning jig

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=30723

Now I do strictly hobby work, and I suspect that setting it up takes a fraction longer than using a commercial jig, but the price is right, and it really does a great job.

For most tenons I use a dado, and set the jig to cut the outside edge of the tenon. I then flip around and cut the other cheek.

For mortises I got a great deal on the Jessem zip slot mortise mill. It works great, but (1) its way slower than a mortiser, and (2) it leaves you with a rounded slot. Not a big deal since I do own a chisel or two. . .

[David Winer]

Stephan has a great tip here, and it works with vertical tenon jigs on the tablesaw as well. Using a shim means you only have to setup the initial offset for your cut, and it also means you'll get the same thickness tenon even when cutting tenons in stock of a different thickness, or when you mught need an offset tenon for some of the pieces.
This is not so much a tip, as it is a tip-off--that a good method exists. How does one go about using a shim to make tenons? I've tried thinking it through but don't get it. Sounds nifty though.

[Neal Clayton]

This is not so much a tip, as it is a tip-off--that a good method exists. How does one go about using a shim to make tenons? I've tried thinking it through but don't get it. Sounds nifty though.

if you have a shim the precise thickness of your mortise chisel, and use it on one of the face cuts for the tenon, then don't use the shim for the other face cut (against the horizontal stop plate on your tenon jig) then logically, your tenon will wind up being the precise thickness of the shim and thus the precise thickness of the chisel.

[Jason Pinsonneault]

Ive got the General International tenoning jig , which i so far really like seams like the fit and finish might be a bit better than some others that ive seen. Also have a Steel city mortiser which i really like especially the big table and pull-out wings.

[Dan Karachio]

Ive got the General International tenoning jig , which i so far really like seams like the fit and finish might be a bit better than some others that ive seen. Also have a Steel city mortiser which i really like especially the big table and pull-out wings.

Well, if I will be making mortises with GI, why not tenons too? :D I wonder if we can get these in the states - General is often hard to find if Woodcraft doesn't stock it. It's like they make it difficult to buy their stuff some times.

P.S. Here is a review of about ten! http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=24115

[Dave Lehnert]

I have used a Grizzly bench top unit and the Rockler jig for years. It works well but never thought of it being great!
First the Rockler jig has all kinds of adjustments to make very minute tweaks to the tenon but using the mortiser is just a fancy way of chopping out mortises by hand. No real adjustments to tweak the cuts.
Like I said works well but always thought something like a router jig would be better. Don't know for sure, never tried it.

[Dan Karachio]

One of the tenon jigs not in that review is the Steel City. It looks like it might be of good quality. I just don't want to get one, any brand, that is not flat and have to send it back. Is that too much to ask? http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/steel-city-tenon-jig.aspx

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/steelcity/358100d.jpg

[Rod Sheridan]

Dan, the one part of the tenon jig that you will operate, perhaps hundreds of times in a tenon cutting session is the hand wheel that clamps the wood into the jig.

In the photo you supplied, the hand wheel is a simple plastic knob.

Do you want to loosen and tighten that a couple of hundred times?

Find a tenon jig with a good metal hand wheel or knob with a spinner handle.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. The GI jig has a nice heavy metal knob with spinner.

[Dan Karachio]

Dan, the one part of the tenon jig that you will operate, perhaps hundreds of times in a tenon cutting session is the hand wheel that clamps the wood into the jig.

In the photo you supplied, the hand wheel is a simple plastic knob.

Do you want to loosen and tighten that a couple of hundred times?

Find a tenon jig with a good metal hand wheel or knob with a spinner handle.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. The GI jig has a nice heavy metal knob with spinner.

Rod, my fingers thank you! Good call!

[Darnell Hagen]

A mortiser should have a clamping x/y sliding table. Tilting heads and angleing tables are nice but unnecessary.

I make my tenons (http://thewayiwood.blogspot.com/2010/09/maple-and-cherry-desk-tenons.html) with a dado head and a mitre gauge.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s168/DarnellHagen/P1520732.jpg

[Forrest Bonner]

I know that you wanted squared tenons, but to simplify your joinery I suggest considering slip, or loose, tenons. Then all you need is make mortises. FWW has a neat jig described for absolutely locating matching mortises for furniture, like tables, and you can be assured that all mortises are true. This gives you the maximum glue surfaces. The ends are round, but no one sees them - ala no one sees uneven results from a mortise chisel. And try cutting a tenon on a table skirt that is five feet long using a tenoning jig or dado and miter gauge. The tenons may be made all on one piece of matching wood (then cut to length) so that each joint fits exactly the same. Make the tenon board less wide than the mortises, chamfer the edges and you have a built in adjustability to get perfectly aligned joints. The slip tenon is particularly useful when you have many joints as I did on my wife's bookcases. Pic is one side being prepared for glue-up.
Forrest

[Tim Put]

if you have a shim the precise thickness of your mortise chisel, and use it on one of the face cuts for the tenon, then don't use the shim for the other face cut (against the horizontal stop plate on your tenon jig) then logically, your tenon will wind up being the precise thickness of the shim and thus the precise thickness of the chisel.

Definitely the way to go. But don't forget that your shim has to be the thickness of your mortise width plus one kerf!

[Dan Karachio]

A mortiser should have a clamping x/y sliding table. Tilting heads and angleing tables are nice but unnecessary.

I make my tenons (http://thewayiwood.blogspot.com/2010/09/maple-and-cherry-desk-tenons.html) with a dado head and a mitre gauge.


Thanks Darnell. That's how I make mine now too. I have limited time in the shop, so I get a little sick of swapping the blades/dado and think a tenon jig will speed up my work.

[Dan Karachio]

I know that you wanted squared tenons, but to simplify your joinery I suggest considering slip, or loose, tenons.
Forrest

Thanks Forrest, I do have a mortise pal and it works great, but more and more I find it unable to cut where I need to cut and I find using the router for this to be noisy and not much fun. Maybe this is weird, but I feel like I am working in some awful repetitive factory job instead of having fun enjoying my hobby. For through tenons and wedged tenons, it doesn't sound fun to chisel out square edges from rounded mortises either. I think I will always use the mortise pal, especially where it shines the best, but I think I really do need and want a mortiser. Thinking the Steel City will be the one I get.