I guess Stanley fumbled the ball again....

[Mac Houtz]

Well, their new chisels were supposed to be available (both the construction tang handled chisels and the socket chisels for woodworking) in September. Surprise surprise its almost November and all a google search for them will turn up is all the excited blog posts from six months ago when they made that announcement. Which is the same thing that happened about two years ago when they said they were going to make new chisels.
What the hell is going on over there?

I would rather save up and spend my money with Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley, or Blue Spruce, but I have to admit that I was interested in trying a couple of the new stanley chisels, if only because I own a bunch of refurbished stanley chisels and really enjoy them. If they performed as well as my blue chips I would be happy enough.

Here's hoping that the delay was caused by them reading some of the critiques of the design that appeared on this board and others following their announcement this past spring and deciding to do something about it.

Does anyone have any idea who will carry these mythical tools, should they ever grace us with their presence?

[Matt Meiser]

The Bailey ones are available. I've seen them at Menards. And I read a review here.

[David Weaver]

I'd bet the delay has a lot more to do with margin and market size. They probably have other things they can focus on where the margin and market size is a lot better.

Like some fatmax nail puller made in china or something.

[george wilson]

Won't the chisels be made in China too? I don't know.

[Mac Houtz]

George, I'm quite sure they will be chinese, which is depressing to me as well. I guess I am just a sucker for socket chisels, and was hoping that somebody could make something that was reasonably functional at a pricepoint that was "affordable."

In fact, compared to your standard of work, I feel quite sure these chisels are going to be pure, unadulterated garbage.

You know what they say, if wishes were horses then poor folks would ride, or something to that effect. If I had always waited for the ability to purchase the top of the line tool that I wanted before doing any work, then I would never get any projects done on my budget. After all, I would say I am a woodworker before I am a tool collector, though I have to admit to being both.

[Rob Lee]

Hi Mac -

You won't have too long to wait for another option....maybe ours will be out before Stanley after all.... :)

There are a number of really good chisels out there - just buy them one at a time, and it won't seem so expensive. The Blue Spruce and LN chisels are both fine choices....

Cheers -

Rob

[David Weaver]

Having not seen the packages in person but recalling the print on the ones that were shown on here, I think they are made in england.

They have just been coarsely finished, the ones that have been shown.

I'm really kind of surprised that they are bothering to make anything in england, and I'm surprised with their cost structure and what is probably their normal margin, that they will sell them for what they do. In the age of CNC machines, maybe there is a lot less to making them than I'm thinking, though. I have seen the "how it's made" with the buck brothers chisels - they are automaton fodder.

I don't have any idea why they felt the need to call the new chisels sweetheart. Why didn't they just make 750s again and call them 750s? And why label some chisels Bailey? It stinks just the same as CNH global taking a ford boomer utility tractor and writing "FARMALL" on it. it makes you think the people at the company have no clue.

All of their (stanley) hardware store stuff is chinese, though, even chisels that cost almost as much as the ones that were shown here from menards. Years ago, my FIL got me a set of sheffield england fatmax chisels. They are fairly coarsely finished like hardware store chisels, but when it comes down to it, they are not bad. You can sharpen them, and they hold their edge. They probably cost 3 times as much to make an england, but still...at least they were worth buying for someone on a budget.

[David Weaver]

Hi Mac -

....maybe ours will be out before Stanley after all.... :)


:confused:

[James Taglienti]

I saw them at the store. They look like a Narex but say made in england on them. I don't know why they decided to mimic that design. Also the Bailey logo is a bit strange on a chisel but i'm sure that only really bothers dorks like me. :o

They had a mediocre finish but came with a nice suede leather roll. Didn't get to really inspect them because there was about 1.5 lbs of packaging around em. I think $80 for the set?

[dave andrews]

Hi Mac -

You won't have too long to wait for another option....maybe ours will be out before Stanley after all.... :)

There are a number of really good chisels out there - just buy them one at a time, and it won't seem so expensive. The Blue Spruce and LN chisels are both fine choices....

Cheers -

Rob

Cool, another socket chisel option and going through Lee Valley is much more preferable than Stanley! I would have very strongly considered adding them to my order yesterday. cheers

[David Weaver]

I saw them at the store. They look like a Narex but say made in england on them. I don't know why they decided to mimic that design. Also the Bailey logo is a bit strange on a chisel but i'm sure that only really bothers dorks like me. :o

They had a mediocre finish but came with a nice suede leather roll. Didn't get to really inspect them because there was about 1.5 lbs of packaging around em. I think $80 for the set?

which makes you think: what's the point? Why not spend a little time making them nice and charge double or triple that? I think they don't understand the market.

[Jonathan McCullough]

I saw them at the store. They look like a Narex but say made in england on them. I don't know why they decided to mimic that design. Also the Bailey logo is a bit strange on a chisel but i'm sure that only really bothers dorks like me. :o

They had a mediocre finish but came with a nice suede leather roll. Didn't get to really inspect them because there was about 1.5 lbs of packaging around em. I think $80 for the set?

There are supposed to be two types: The "Bailey" line, which you're talking about there, and the "Sweetheart" socket chisel line, which is supposed to look like the Lie Nielsens/750s.

My guess is that there are a number of factors delaying the introduction of the "Sweethearts." The first is the terrible economy. The second is the value of the dollar versus the Pound. The third is that I could not be surprised at all if making socket chisels is a lot more complicated than people first guessed and that nobody is around from the time when they made them in the first place, and that they may be trying to adapt existing tooling to make them, and they're re-inventing the wheel.

I saw the Buck Brothers drop forging video too, and as far as the chisel part is concerned that's how I'd make them if I were in the biz. Most of the shaping is taken care of by the stamping process, as opposed to cutting or grinding the work from flat stock like the little bespoke chisel makers do it. Saves time and materials. I have some of the Buck Brothers chisels from Craftsman studios with the wooden handles. They were apparently leftover drop forged blanks from the 1960s. I like them and they take a keen edge, but you can take that with a grain of salt; just as with my rehabbed saws, there are only a couple of chisels I didn't actually like. Always seem to be reaching for the Bucks though, and they're made in the U.S.

[Gary Hodgin]

Perhaps, I don't understand the market for chisels. But, it seems to me that if there is a profitable market today, that market is in the med-high and high end segments. I don't see a big market for low quality chisels. Who uses them? I see them for sell, but hardly ever see anyone buying. The folks who could potentially get something done with them (with lots of knowledgeable fettling) just aren't in the market for a low quality chisel. Many someone gets them as a gift and uses them to open paint cans when he can't find a screwdriver.

[dan sherman]

I don't see a big market for low quality chisels. Who uses them?

The guy who thinks making the front door not stick, is a tricky woodworking project.

[James Taglienti]

most of the older sockets were forged into that shape. sometimes they come apart and you can see the seam where the two halves were worked together. i thought that most of the newer socket chisels were milled? part of the reason the old socket chisels hold a handle so much better is the uneven toothy surface inside the socket... plus the chunky rust :D

[Gary Hodgin]

The guy who thinks making the front door not stick, is a tricky woodworking project.

I guess they'd quit making 'um if they couldn't sell 'um.
Gary

[john brenton]

I see the price of their "premium planes" are dropping quickly. They're about $20 less than they were a few months ago. I'm eyeing that low angle jack and the shoulder plane. I know people say they have to be fettled, but I can do that.



Well, their new chisels were supposed to be available (both the construction tang handled chisels and the socket chisels for woodworking) in September. Surprise surprise its almost November and all a google search for them will turn up is all the excited blog posts from six months ago when they made that announcement. Which is the same thing that happened about two years ago when they said they were going to make new chisels.
What the hell is going on over there?

I would rather save up and spend my money with Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley, or Blue Spruce, but I have to admit that I was interested in trying a couple of the new stanley chisels, if only because I own a bunch of refurbished stanley chisels and really enjoy them. If they performed as well as my blue chips I would be happy enough.

Here's hoping that the delay was caused by them reading some of the critiques of the design that appeared on this board and others following their announcement this past spring and deciding to do something about it.

Does anyone have any idea who will carry these mythical tools, should they ever grace us with their presence?

[Bill Houghton]

Hi Mac -

You won't have too long to wait for another option....maybe ours will be out before Stanley after all.... :)

There are a number of really good chisels out there - just buy them one at a time, and it won't seem so expensive. The Blue Spruce and LN chisels are both fine choices....

Cheers -

Rob

What kind of CEO suggests that the competition has good products? Rob, your standards for yourself are a delight.

[Don Dorn]

What kind of CEO suggests that the competition has good products? Rob, your standards for yourself are a delight.

You beat me to it - I look to LV for most everything, not only for quality but for thier buisness integrity.

[Curt Harms]

The guy who thinks making the front door not stick, is a tricky woodworking project.
And like it or not, I'll bet that's the majority of the market.

[John Neel]

I don't see a big market for low quality chisels. Who uses them?

I bought a cheap HF set to use when I do work around the house and don't want to risk my good chisels. That came in very handy recently when I hit a concealed nail. It put a nice nick in the chisel and I was thankful my good chisels were back in the shop. Before I bought the cheap set I succumbed to temptation, used a good chisel, and nicked it as well. That was one trial learning, I was very happy to have the cheap one for household tasks so that my good ones remained pristine.

[Mac Houtz]

Many framers keep low end chisels in their tool rigs to tweak a cut or joint as necessary, or to quickly chop out notches in soft spruce or pine. Every framer on my jobsite, mexican or american, had one or two. That's who buys the ones at HD and Lowes.


Rob, thanks for the info, based on your comments above I will definitely not be making any substantial additions to the chisel drawer until I have had a look at the new offerings you are referring too. It has always been a pleasure doing business with your company in the past, and I will look forward to a good reason to do it again.

[James Taglienti]

The guy who thinks making the front door not stick, is a tricky woodworking project.


careful, that same guy could be performing your root canal next month! :eek:

[Erwin Graween]

Rob,

You raised my interest ... What sort of chisels are we talking about, and what ETA are we expected ?

Damnn, it's going to be time to think about christmas :D

Cheers

[Rob Lee]

Rob,

You raised my interest ... What sort of chisels are we talking about, and what ETA are we expected ?

Damnn, it's going to be time to think about christmas :D

Cheers

Hi Erwin -

We shoud have at least three styles (eventually) - Mortise, Bench, and Butt/utility ... we have the basic designs and are firming up exact configurations now. At least one of the three will bring something new to the table (in terms of design - not just material). We've not yet completed our steel review - our testing is still in progress. We've made something like 120 different chisels, with dozens of different blades.... we only intend to choose a material once (though it could be different for each style). There could be some surprises there too.

We have a custom griding machine being built in Germany right now - and expect delivery April 2011 or later.... so that pretty much means we'll be late summer or so.

Cheers -

Rob

[Erwin Graween]

Hi Rob.
Thank you for the information.

It sounds nice. I'm looking forward to see theses new chisels.
If they're at you usual standards, it'll be very nice. Especially if there is some nice bench (bevelled :p edge) and some good mortice chisels !

We'll :(, still a long time to wait. Although I'm sure some of your usual testers may have some models to work on soon :D

Thank you.

[Rob Lee]

(snip)
We'll :(, still a long time to wait. Although I'm sure some of your usual testers may have some models to work on soon :D

Thank you.

Hi Erwin -

Already heard back from some of our usual testers....:D

But that doesn't necessarily mean they're testing what we'll actually produce!

Cheers -

Rob

[Don Dorn]

I see the price of their "premium planes" are dropping quickly. They're about $20 less than they were a few months ago. I'm eyeing that low angle jack and the shoulder plane. I know people say they have to be fettled, but I can do that.

I have little doubt that you could, but is the difference in price enough to go through the trouble when you could start with a LV BU Jack and not have to deal with it? I understand that to each their own, but I have trouble wrapping my arms around the logic. For me personally, they would have had to be substantially cheaper.

[Erwin Graween]

Hi.

Rob, that's what tests are for :cool:. I hope they'll be available in metrics for us european :D.

John,
+1 with Don Dorn. My LV BU Jack was the first premium/high end plane I bought. And it was a 'revelation'. I never went back to fettling, tweaking at all. Except with old planes/tools, but for other reasons pleasure, conservation of tools and trade, etc. Since I got both LV and LN planes and I'm very happy with them.

Honestly, the time required to do so is in my opinion not worth it. In particular with new products. Especially since, as Don said, for the price spread between the products.
Now everyone sees the world its own way, and do the way that fits him. Depending, of budgets, time, preferences, ...

But from a price point of view (mine in fact), buying a new tool, and having to work on it to get it working right, does not seems to me advantageous. You either buy a cheap tool (preferably and old one in that case) and work on it. Or buy it new to use is right out of the box. Does anyone fettle his new car, once it was bought to drive it? Same for woodworking in my opinion.


Best Regards.

[J. Greg Jones]

Well, their new chisels were supposed to be available (both the construction tang handled chisels and the socket chisels for woodworking) in September. Surprise surprise its almost November and all a google search for them will turn up is all the excited blog posts from six months ago when they made that announcement. Which is the same thing that happened about two years ago when they said they were going to make new chisels.

I've been wanting to spring for a new set of chisels for months now and I was waiting to see how the Sweetheart chisels performed before making a decision. Yesterday I gave up on waiting on Stanley and ordered a set from LN.

The same thing happened with the new Stanley planes-I pre-ordered one of the Stanley LA Jack planes and after the shipping date slipped for months, I gave up, canceled the order and bought a LN LA Jack instead. Considering the feedback on the first shipment of the new planes, Stanley did me a favor on that one.

[Rick Boyett]

I see the price of their "premium planes" are dropping quickly. They're about $20 less than they were a few months ago. I'm eyeing that low angle jack and the shoulder plane. I know people say they have to be fettled, but I can do that.


IMO, you'd do better to get the Veritas LA Jack Plane. I got the Stanley and ended up returning it. I made some notes about this plane before returning it. You can read them here: http://lumberjocks.com/Rick_Boyett/blog/18618

I did a complete review of their low angle block plane as well. http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1326

By comparison, here is my full review of the Veritas LA Jack Plane.. http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1697

IMO, the Stanley just isn't worth the effort. The paint is flaking off the one I bought and the cap iron is aluminum. That cap iron alone should make one question the long term durability of the tool.. As for the No. 92 shoulder plane, Chris Schwartz wrote a review and seemed to generally like it after he had squared it up..

I did speak with Stanley's product manager for these planes and he said that they had made a lot of quality control improvements on the Sweetheart line. Unfortunately there is no way to tell these new planes from the old ones. So if you buy online, you're rolling the dice on your purchase.

[Paul Murphy]

I see the price of their "premium planes" are dropping quickly. They're about $20 less than they were a few months ago. I'm eyeing that low angle jack and the shoulder plane. I know people say they have to be fettled, but I can do that.

It's good you know how to bring plane into better shape, and I'm sure it can be worth the effort at times. As many point out, some of the older planes were built to a higher standard.

My experience with a Lee Valley low-angle smooth plane was a revelation on total quality, as everything about the plane has met or exceeded my expectations. There is minimal backlash in the threaded adjuster, the adjustable mouth has an adjustable stop screw, there is enormous support for the blade. Some of the things I mention can't simply be fettled. I read a review of one of the new Stanley LAJ planes where they mention the mouth not closing any tighter than ~1/8", and the reviewer doubted it could be easily rectified.

I'm sure you could improve one of the new Stanley's, but I doubt you could make it equal to either the LV or LN products. Every time I use my LV planes I'm reminded of what an excellent job they have done on every aspect of the plane. I hear the same thing about the LN planes, and in the end I'm certain their owners believe they have received full value for their money. Check resale value on the LV or LN, and consider what it might be for a newer "fettled" Stanley.

Whatever your choice, I hope you are as satisfied as I have been :).