PDA

View Full Version : A couple of reviews



john brenton
10-26-2010, 3:05 PM
Not sure if anyone is interested...but that never stopped me before.

I've recently been selling off some old tools, some that were users and some that I picked up intentionally to sell. Some made a good return, others minimal. Either way, there have been a few that I picked up to sell but am going to end up keeping. These aren't "NEW Market breakthroughs" by any means...just my thoughts on some tools I never had before.

1. Ulmia 9" jack plane.
Horn handled jack Bedded at 45* white beech with hornbeam sole. Works great, feels great in the hand. I had never owned a woodie with the rest on the back that fits into the web between your thumb and fore finger, but after planing several large planks of oak I really developed an appreciation for it. I use a traditional wooden Sandusky jack plane to flatten the surface across the grain, but I think the Ulmia will find a place in my collection for working somewhere in between the jack plane and the smoother...keeping my favorite 50* smoother dedicated for the final surfacing if needed.

The Ulmia does a great job smoothing to a glassy surface as well as taking thick cuts for dimensioning. No big mystery there. I can say the same thing about my #5.

2. Ulmia 24" jointer.
Sorry if I stole this from anyone in the forum. I tuned in just as the auction was finishing and I didn't expect to win. It's a beautiful plane of white beech with a hornbeam sole, with the typical pivoting wedge socket dealy bob. They go for about $220, I paid about a fourth of that for this brand spanking new jointer. Although I don't feel that $220 is too much money for a plane of this quality, I don't think that I would buy this plane unless the deal was stellar, and the reason is the tote. When I compare this handle against my old English red beech jointer's tote the difference is huge. It's the difference between a Disston or Groves saw handle and a big box Taiwanese handsaw. The old English handle just fits so securely and comfortably into your hand, like it was made for it. Your hand hugs the tote and the tote hugs back....the Ulmia handle feels like user comfort wasn't even considered.

3. Footprint blue handled chisels:
I would have never bought these as users. I can't say why, I guess they just looked cheap to me. But, having used them I can say that I will get a lot of use. They retain their edge well, and the balance in the hand is perfect. I pared down some dovetails on poplar and oak and really enjoyed using these chisels. I got them for next to nothing, but the asking price for a new set is pretty reasonable in my opinion.

4. 12" Spears and Jackson brass backed tenon saws:
It's a nice hunk of saw but the beech handle design bites. I think S&J handles have always been on the less attractive side. A few old ones have passed through my hands and only one had a nice tote. They go for about $30 new...apparently Sears online has them. Go figure. Its supposedly filed as an "all purpose" saw, but out of the sleeve will not make crosscuts to save it's life. However, it is a pleasure to rip with. I ripped right through some thin stock rock maple and it left a nice surface. Unlike a lot of cheap saws that are stamped and nothing more, this one actually cuts right out the box. I haven't tried filing it yet so I can't say too much, but $30 ain't bad at all compared to some of the other junk of that same price.

5. Veritas honing guide and bevel gauge:
I never once even considered getting a honing guide. I didn't really need it, and people say that it's a waste of time, and it's just a "dummy guide", but to me it's a God send, especially when it comes to establishing the flatness of the bevel. Quite a few irons and chisels pass through my hands and most of them need a lot of work. It was a shock to me to see a belly on some of my irons and chisels as I put them on the stone with the guide. Albeit very small bellies. A few strokes on the coarse water stone gave me a flat bevel to work with and significantly improved the performance on my Stanley 110's bevel up iron, which of course has a very small bevel making it hard to balance. I say that because the thicker irons aren't hard to sharpen free hand, but I will still use guide for honing on the lower grits and establishing the secondary bevel...hell, I might even try the "third bevel" and see how that goes. It's easy with this thing.

That's it...for now at least.

David Weaver
10-26-2010, 3:50 PM
For anyone who wants to try that type of jack, but doesn't want to spend for the ECE or whoever it is that makes it now, muji makes one out of ebony for about $50 with an iron - horn, iron in the middle, etc - and it comes with an HSS iron.

I don't like continental jointers, especially when there is an abundance of old beech jointers that were made with a proper tote, as you describe, but I like the continental smoother a lot. I leave mine sitting around set for a coarse smoother shaving, and on small pieces, I go right from the jack or fore plane to it, and it leaves me with a surface that I can whip right to with an infill plane set to whisper (for hardwoods), or one that doesn't need anything at all with softwoods.

For the S&J saws, you've gotta go back as far as when they had lamb's tongues. I got a 16" rip tenon saw with a normal size plate (not thick like a miter saw) on peebay for $16 a month or two ago. Split nuts, a handle that is properly carved with a lamb's tongue, and it's straight. The seller couldn't have been too happy about that, but life's tough. I've overpaid for my share! Also got a very nice split nut 12 tpi 26" saw filed crosscut with a great tote. $20, and it's old enough to have the company name stamped deep in the plate, not stamped like a normal etch, but really deep. The steel is wonderful, just the perfect combination of hard enough but not too hard to file.

The new ones are doggish, but the old ones are made like the english made them in when hand tools were used, and from time to time, they slip through auction sites and stuff unnoticed because the name "disston", "atkins" or "simonds" isn't attached to them. There is no instant gratification about era, though, as far as I can tell - no page with medallions to tell how old something is.

john brenton
10-26-2010, 4:02 PM
The Jointer does have a proper rear tote, it's just not ergonomic at all...it's the jack that has the horn. Do they make horn handled jointers? That would suck to use.

One thing I forgot to mention is the the S&J handle is riveted. I don't really care for that as I would have liked to make a new tote for it. It wouldn't be impossible to drill or grind out the rivets..but I'd prefer to just unscrew a couple of nuts. The S&J that did have a nice tote was gorgeous. It was beat to hell but the design was perfect. I photocopied it to use in case I ever decided to copy it...who knows where that copy went. I could really use it if I ever decide to make another one for this saw.

I did check out the horn handled Mujingfingdong that you mentioned last week and it does look pretty sweet. I think I saw a set of two of them, a jack and a smoother for cheeeeeeeeeeap. I just finally let Kaisers and Emperors tools into the fold...I'm not ready to let the red dragon in yet.

Gaz Palmer
10-26-2010, 4:50 PM
If the S&J's handle is riveted you'll find you've a DIY grade saw and not one intended for professional use. The main giveaway regarding DIY S&J saws is the presence of plated rivets on pale beech handles instead of the typically dark stained beech handles with brass screws, caps and "Warranted" badge.

They used to produce a lineup named "Workhorse" and intended for the DIY market. They weren't up to much if considering professional quality saws and would bind in their kerf at every opportunity and readily lose their edge, as they weren't taper ground or made using higher grade steel. Try something from among their "88"', etc., professional lineups and you'll not be disappointed by the quality of their fully taper ground blades. I still have the set of S&J saws (26" Rip, 24" crosscut, 22" panel, 12", 10" and 8" tenon saws) from my apprentice years almost 40yrs ago and in spite of buying Disston, Sandvik, etc. over the years I still find myself gravitating toward my S&J's as they're extremely well made working saws. They're still outstanding tools and just as good as older examples with the "lambs tongue" feature on their handles from the days when Moses was a lad. :)

David Weaver
10-26-2010, 5:22 PM
The Jointer does have a proper rear tote, it's just not ergonomic at all...it's the jack that has the horn. Do they make horn handled jointers? That would suck to use.

One thing I forgot to mention is the the S&J handle is riveted. I don't really care for that as I would have liked to make a new tote for it. It wouldn't be impossible to drill or grind out the rivets..but I'd prefer to just unscrew a couple of nuts. The S&J that did have a nice tote was gorgeous. It was beat to hell but the design was perfect. I photocopied it to use in case I ever decided to copy it...who knows where that copy went. I could really use it if I ever decide to make another one for this saw.

I did check out the horn handled Mujingfingdong that you mentioned last week and it does look pretty sweet. I think I saw a set of two of them, a jack and a smoother for cheeeeeeeeeeap. I just finally let Kaisers and Emperors tools into the fold...I'm not ready to let the red dragon in yet.

Trust me on this - avoid buying any sets of those muji continental smoothers on ebay if the origin is china. The guy who sells them doesn't actually have the large ones, and the four sizes smaller than the large ones have an iron of 1 3/8" at the largest - they are worthless to have, and that's what he sends you, and he does the bob and weave as soon as you ask him to make it right. I found that out the hard way.

Woodline sells them out of tenn in the US. When you figure shipping (and the fact that you get the right thing), it's cheaper to just get them in the US.

The iron in them is trick, though. I'd bet it's 90% as good as the high dollar HSS irons (it's far longer lasting than A2 or any other non HSS non-powder metal iron - by a factor in whole numbers, not a percentage). Who knows what it is, but it feels like M2. It is an exercise in frustration if you don't have something that can cut it to flatten the back initially, but if you do....best bargain in new planes from a company who makes things in china in a way we often don't believe things in china are made (well executed with high quality materials).

A saw with rivets is a downer! I have a good idea which saw you're talking about.

The one I mentioned (the big crosscut saw) came with a frown, but it's something I can work out and cut new teeth in it, it'll just cost $10 worth of files and a couple hours on my part. Makes me wish I had a retoother, though!

john brenton
10-26-2010, 8:27 PM
Oh yeah, it's definitely not a professional saw...the fact that they sell it at SEARS is another dead giveaway. I'm not saying it's a fantastic saw, and I wouldn't pay full price for it, but it's also not crap. Thanks for the insight on the S&J professional backsaw though...I had seen it and wondered if it was worth its price tag.

Dave: I never for a minute thought about actually buying one of those god awful things! It did seem like a pretty great deal though. The only thing uglier than those mofonchingchong smoothers are those weird looking swiss plastic smoothers..have you seen those? They look like they're made for wood working on the moon.


If the S&J's handle is riveted you'll find you've a DIY grade saw and not one intended for professional use. The main giveaway regarding DIY S&J saws is the presence of plated rivets on pale beech handles instead of the typically dark stained beech handles with brass screws, caps and "Warranted" badge.