Huge bowls on the G0698 lathe. How?

[dirk martin]

I'm about to order the Grizzly G0698 lathe.
I've got some huge 24" walnut blanks I want to turn.
This lathe will handle an 18" blank, over the bed, but can't I move the headstock to the end, and then use a floor stand to support a tool rest, to turn larger bowls like these?...or does it not work that way?

[alex carey]

It works exactly like that. Though you should be wary! Turning a 24" chunk of walnut ain't no picnic, especially if you don't have the tailstock and even more if you don't have some experience with turning atleast some large stuff. A 24" bowl blank could easily weigh over 150#. I personally would use a 6" faceplate and I'd get it as round as possible before attempting to turn it.

I have no real experience with the grizzly's but the word around town is that they are generally considered the lowest quality lathes, so I wouldn't make turning something that size on that lathe a regular habit.

Also once you get the lathe I'd seriously consider adding a few hundred pounds of ballast. One of the reasons that lathe is way cheaper than a lathe like the powermatic 3520b is that it weighs 200 pounds less and that is very significant when it comes to turning stuff that large.

Let us know what you decide!

[Roger Chandler]

Dirk,

I own a Grizzly G0698, and let me tell you, this one is a winner! Grizzly lathes in the past were considered the lower end, but this one is in a class with the PM3520b, and the Jet 16/42. I have turned on 2 PM3520b's and have watched several demos on the Jet.....I know what of I speak! Some of the parts on the PM and the Jet are identical to the parts on the Grizzly G0698, and there is a connection in manufacturing somewhere.

The secret to what you want is to add ballast. In the legs there are castings for adding a shelf. You could make one out of a 2x4 frame with supports and fill the voids with sand, then place 1/2 inch plywood as the outer skin. A shelf stiffens the unit from end to end [important] and gives you extra stability down low to help soak up vibrations.

That being said, you should get the blank as round as possible. You can slide the headstock to near end of the bed, and use a floor stand, just go slow until you get the blank balanced. Do use a faceplate [a 6" does come with the lathe] and long enough screws.

[Norm Zax]

Do not stand "in the line of fire".
Start below 100 rpm.
Get it as round as possible before mounting.
...and all these, after you get some prior experience with 12" or larger bowls. Otherwise, cut in half and create two "safer" works of art.
stay safe,
Norm

[Roger Chandler]

A Big AMEN to what Norm said!

[Chris Haas]

also take a look at lagunas outboard bed extension http://www.amazon.com/Laguna-Tools-Outboard-Turning-Lathe/dp/B002UUNLCW/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288149132&sr=8-1-fkmr0 for their 1847 lathe. it should bolt right on to the grizz

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have turned on the identical twin that Busy Bee sells, and I tell you that is not the kind of lathe I would want to turn 24" blanks on to make bowls from.
That lathe is quite a nice lathe, but not a heavy duty lathe, the other thing is that turning with a loose floor stand is something I would not do for anything but a platter type turning, something where you don't have to go into with your tool.
I have turned quite few large pieces in excess of the 24" you are considering of turning, and you better get some experience under your belt before you get into turning these large pieces.
Here's a picture of me turning a bowl that had the lathe walking the floor while trying to get it round and better balanced, and it is nowhere near even 16 inches

165614

[dirk martin]

I will be cutting these blanks round, on my MM24 bandsaw first.
I knew Mr. Chandler would chime in, praising this lathe...but I sure wish I could hear from other owners of it.

BTW, Mr. chandler, any idea what Grizzly's shipping schedule is these days for this thing? It used to be quite long I know...wonder if they caught up.

[dirk martin]

Also, any suggestions on the best tool for roughing large blanks?

I've ordered a 5/8" V-shaped bowl gouge from Thompson Lathe Tools.
Will that do the trick, for initial rouging?

[Ken Whitney]

Dirk,

In addition to all the good advice you've received here, rounding a 24" blank on the band saw can be a bit of a challenge.:)

I usually band saw blanks (typically in the 12" diameter range) but I recently switched to doing the chansaw "stop sign" method and doing the initial rounding/balancing on the lathe. It seems a bit faster, and with a variable speed lathe you can gradually increase the speed as the blank becomes more balanced.

I use a Thompson 1/2" v bowl gouge for rough turning, and it is fine. I am sure you will enjoy the 5/8" Thompson.

Ken

[Jake Helmboldt]

Dirk, the 5/8V will be more than adequate.

I second the idea of slabbing that blank to get a large platter instead of trying to turn that large of a bowl.

Stay tuned on the outboard rest...I have a Jet 1642 and I'm finally getting around to having a machinist friend fabricate an outboard rest with an articulated arm that will bolt to the end of the lathe. But I intend to use it primarily for large platters, not huge bowls. The Jet and Grizz don't have the mass and additional spindle bearings to routinely handle those sizes. Plus, I think you will find that bowls beyond 16" are mighty big.

One other reason I'm doing the outbaord rest is that while the Jet can turn 16", to turn at max capacity means start with a rough blank that is beyond that, which can be a pain (constantly trimming little bits off trying to maximize diameter while getting it small enough to swing).

[Roger Chandler]

Dirk,

While I do like the Grizz 18/47 very much, I am also realistic as to its capabilities. The point you were asking about was huge bowls on it. Mass or ballast is so important. I have had mine vibrating pretty good with some out of balance blanks 15" or so.

That is why I added a shelf to the leg brackets on my unit. It stiffened the unit from end to end, which is a big help, and the weight I have on it [tools and wood blanks] adds to the stability. Some folks bolt their lathes to the floor, but I would rather have mine where I can move it when needed.

If mass is a serious issue for you because you want to turn big a lot, then I would recommend that you get a lathe that has more mass, like the PM 4224 or 3520b........both weigh 200 or more pounds more than the Grizzly G0698.

My comments about the G0698 was that it is a good lathe, and has great features for the price. It will handle large stuff, but one must use wisdom, like Leo has pointed out. An outboard attachment would be a good thing as well, and most people turn platters off the end, but a bowl could be done as well, just get the blank as balanced as possible, and have the ballast all across the bottom to stabilize everything as much as you can.

The last I heard was latter part of November for the new shipment......but a call to tech support can give you the info.

[Thomas Hamilton]

Hello Dirk,

I have the comparable Laguna lathe, the 18/47 model. I bought the outboard turning package with it and have turned a walnut bowl up to about 22" using it, as well as many other platters and bowls over the 18" swing capacity.

Because of the way that the outboard feature is designed with a smaller banjo and a 12" riser for the tool rest, it ends up being pretty flimsy in a situation where you want even more robustness than normal. So the tool rest almost "bounces" around during a heavy cut, it's a bad situation.

If you are going to turn outboard I'd suggest fabricating something.

Tom

[Wally Dickerman]

I don't know how much turning experience you have, but I don't even want to be inside your shop when you try turning a 24 inch bowl on that lathe or any lathe that isn't a heavyweight. That thing could be lethal. You'd be better off becoming very experienced at turning 12 inch bowls before attempting to tackle something like that, especially when using a makeshift floor stand tool rest.

Wally

[Kim Ford]

Dirk;

I have to chime in here as well and please by no means take this is the wrong way, but; A 24" walnut log is a massive amount of weight to put on the outboard side of a lighter weight lathe using a floor stand if you haven't done it before and don't understand the basic's of cutting angles, tool rest placement and tool presentation. It's not that you can't do it, it's just that it may be very unwise until you really understand turning. A catch could very easily drag the tool stand and you into the spinning path of a 100 lb mass that is trying to walk across the room.

Just getting a blank that size round and semi balanced requires a lot of skill and knowledge that only comes with experience. Other wise you are putting you and your shop in harm's way. My concern is for your safety.

If the Grizzly lathe is your budget, then anchorseal the walnut logs, put them aside, get the "Griz" and some firewoood. Start with 6" bowls, then move up to 12" bowls, join a turning club, and when you feel ready, find someone at the turning club that has a heavy weight lathe and get them to work with you on their lathe to get the rough blanks turned. When they are dry and ready to be completed you can then decide if you want to put them on the outboard side of your "Griz".

The best of luck and keep us posted.

[Sean Hughto]

What are you going to do with a 24" bowl?

You might try a few at 18" first. I think you'll see that 18 is plenty big for most any use you can think of including huge party salads. How thick are the blank? Like 8"?

You get an awful nice grain pattern when you orient the pith side as the foot of the bowl - sort of concentric circles and some potential for sapwood at the edges (see pic - that one is about 15"). This requires a blank that is flat on the sapwood side so that you can make the rim. Often, folks get bigger bowls by orienting the blank to use the tree's circumference as the outside curve areas of the bowl. That works too, but you get a sort of "X" grain pattern and a bit less stability as far as post turning movement and cracking. My point in all this is that your 24" blanks might be candidates for cutting down to 18" and the benefit would be a pretty grained bowl. Just a thought.

[dirk martin]

Ok, a little background.
Years ago, I spent some time with David Ellsworth at his home in Pa., and turned some smaller bowls and hollow vessels. Then, my "real job" got very busy, and I wasn't making any sawdust for years. Most of my shop equipt. was either undersized, or I got rid of it.

Now, I want to go back at it.
Like I said, I've turned bowls before, and I understand the huge mass to these large blanks. I've been commissioned to create some roughed out walnut blanks...as large as I can supply. Roughed Down to about 1" walls. So, this project has given me the excuse, and money to make sawdust shavings again.

I've got a MM24 bandsaw, and last year created about 200 round bowl blanks on it, which I sold world wide, via my website. So, I'm VERY familiar with getting large blanks ready for the lathe...just not the turning of them. When I worked with David, we concentrated primarity on smaller hollow forms.

I sold a round maple blank last year, that was 36" in diameter, and 24" deep. Shipped it from Chicago, to Washington state. He paid more for shipping, then he did for the wood. He said when it arrived, his wife threatened divorce.

So, since my primary intent is to simply rough these blanks out, I'm also looking at getting either an Easy Rougher, or probably The Peeler, rather than my Thompson gouge.

By the way, are we allowed to place our website addresses in our signature?

[Roger Chandler]

Dirk,

If I were going to focus mainly on the very large blanks you describe, and thought that would be the majority of my business, then I would invest in a larger lathe than the Grizzly G0698........

I would go with a Oneway 24/36 or a Bowl lathe -VB-36 or maybe a Robust American Beauty, which has a 25" swing.

Since it is a business investment, and if it is a long running commission you have then maybe the expense could be justified and maybe even tax deductable?

For the hobbyist that just occasionally turns a large piece, the G0698 will work, but for continual work of the size you describe, I would want a heavier machine with more swing than the G0698.

[dirk martin]

Huge blanks, won't be my primary focus...but possibly large ones.
I plan on focusing in the 12" - 20" range.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Huge blanks, won't be my primary focus...but possibly large ones.
I plan on focusing in the 12" - 20" range.

If that is the case then I think a PM 3520 and a coring system would be the way to go. PM has the mass and swing and coring will save time and yield a lot more blanks (instead of making huge mounds of shavings).

[Sean Hughto]

You may well know this, but for what it's worth, if your blanks are not completely dry and your rough outs are intended for someone else to re-turn, you almost certainly want to leave any big ones far thicker than 1". A 24" bowl can go very oval, meaning that when it's returned inside and out, you are going to lose a lot of thickness to get back to a circle. I'd say 2" is a better ballpark thickness.

I've never used ez rougher or peeler, but I'm having a hard time imagining that its faster than my bowl gouges.

[dirk martin]

Any idea if the Woodcut Bowlsaver will mount on that lathe?

[Roger Chandler]

Any idea if the Woodcut Bowlsaver will mount on that lathe?


If you are going to get the 3520b and use a coring rig, I would recommend that you special order the 3 hp. motor, as it will serve you well if you are doing a lot of coring. The extra power is definitely worth it!

[Bernie Weishapl]

I don't think the woodcut will fit your lathe. It is designed for a 12" lathe. You've gotten some good advice. I would have to agree that I would not even think about a 24" blank on something less than a PM3520B. Even with a MM24 it doesn't mean the blank is balanced when cut round.