Newly Developed Miter Gauge/Need Input

[richard poitras]

I recently stumbled across this miter gauge via wood mag and looked it up on the web. It seemed interesting to me. In looking at it I liked the protractor miter gauge designed with its 1degree positive stops. But what I did not like is the fence on the gauge. On his web page it states it is still under development. So I sent him any e-mail with some suggestions about the fence and a few suggestions that I thought would be helpful and things I thought would make it a top notch miter gauge (things I would like to see any way). He sent me a very nice e-mail back and stated he was looking for constructive input and that was way he set up the website early and was looking for comments and that they were all valued and appreciated. He also stated that he would like to hear objective comments from others woodworkers on his design as well. What do you guys think about how this miter gauge looks or it's designed? I listed his site below so if you want to send him constructive feed back as well I am sure he would appreciated it.

www.protractormiter.com (http://www.protractormiter.com/)

http://www.protractormiter.com/sitebuilder/images/Miter_Gauge_25_C-519x600.jpg

[David Thompson 27577]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this person is not a woodworker.

Cuz if they were, their invention would work on either side of the blade, and on either side of zero degrees.

And that design probably does neither.

[Alan Schaffter]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this person is not a woodworker.

Cuz if they were, their invention would work on either side of the blade, and on either side of zero degrees.

And that design probably does neither.

He is a woodworker and actually has another product being marketed- the ChestMate by Prazi (looks like it uses Leigh Jig type fingers). That being said, I agree about the range and use on either side of the blade. Even the Osborne will do that. Aren't most miter gauges really protractors? Don't one or more INCRA miter gauges index by 1 degree increments?

[John Coloccia]

If you look at the website, it does increment on 1 degree intervals. Also, if you read down some more, he states his rationals for not allowing "negative angle" cuts, as he calls them. I actually think it's quite a nice, simple and robust miter gauge. I would suggest a simple way of attaching an auxiliary fence, or maybe offer a longer fence with a stop mechanism, but other than that I kind of like it.

If you look at the Incra indexing, it's a complicated affair. That's not to say it's bad, but if 1 degree increments is what you want, his system is very simple and robust. The Incra 5000 lets you index on 1/2 degree, I think.

[Bill Huber]

I think it looks really good, I do agree he needs to have a different fence, one that will take a stop and it could be a little longer.

The design looks really good and I am sure it would be very accurate.

[richard poitras]

Bill what I liked about it also is how easy it would be to set the angle on it. Very quick with the positive stops.

[Matt Meiser]

I don't care about anyone else's justification--I wouldn't buy a miter gauge that didn't pivot both ways.

[Cary Falk]

It looks cool but it only adjusts 45 degrees one way. My incra 1000SE adjusts 90 degrees both ways, has a long fence with a stop, and cost me less than that one on sale. Do I need 90 degree adjustment both ways? I don't know yet but I would rather have it and not need it. I just bought a Incra V120 for $50. The INCRAs are going to be hard to beat.

[Phil john williams]

It looks cool but it only adjusts 45 degrees one way. My incra 1000SE adjusts 90 degrees both ways, has a long fence with a stop, and cost me less than that one on sale. Do I need 90 degree adjustment both ways? I don't know yet but I would rather have it and not need it. I just bought a Incra V120 for $50. The INCRAs are going to be hard to beat.

Perhaps I am missing something obvious, but what is the purpose of a mitre guage that adjusts 90deg?

-phil

[Matt Meiser]

Making a frame with an infinite number of sides of course! :D

[Don Alexander]

don't know about 90 degrees but up to 89 degrees could be useful and certainly 45 degrees is not enough unless of course its for a specific purpose that needs less than that

most people want a more versatile miter gauge i would think i know i do

[Darius Ferlas]

Positives:

- miter track expanders to keep the miter from wiggling left and right
- longer fence
- fence can be adjusted to be closer to or further away from the blade

Negatives:

- fence doesn't appear to allow for attachments such as hold downs or taller sacrificial fences
- moving of the pivotal point towards the blade steals some of depth of cut
- no built in positive stops for all angle increments

Overall it looks to me like a conventional miter cut in half and with the pivotal point moved and as mentioned above, it would be hard to beat the $50 Incra miter.

[John Coloccia]

Again, there are positive stops on every degree. Re: everything else, I guess it depends what you're doing. I have NEVER used the miter gauge on the right side of the blade or EVER adjusted to more than 45 degrees. Ever. There are probably a lot more woodworkers out there like me than there are that are making triangular boxes. My guess is that most pros would very much appreciate a simple and accurate miter gauge.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Interesting. Made me think of why miter gauges stink to begin with - trying to attach a usable long fence to something at just a single point of intersection. I think the whole concept would work better - and turn 'miter gauges' into just 'mini sleds' - if there were *two* slots on the same side of the blade. Think about how much more stable a gauge could be with two points of contact with guide bars, not just one.

[John Coloccia]

Interesting. Made me think of why miter gauges stink to begin with - trying to attach a usable long fence to something at just a single point of intersection. I think the whole concept would work better - and turn 'miter gauges' into just 'mini sleds' - if there were *two* slots on the same side of the blade. Think about how much more stable a gauge could be with two points of contact with guide bars, not just one.

I have an alignment kit that adjusts in the slot very tightly with NO play. It uses little bearings. I wonder why no one makes a miter gauge like that (or just the tracks). Little bearings, spring loaded. That really would make everything better.

[Alan Schaffter]

I have an alignment kit that adjusts in the slot very tightly with NO play. It uses little bearings. I wonder why no one makes a miter gauge like that (or just the tracks). Little bearings, spring loaded. That really would make everything better.

Miter bars really need adjustable "fixed" bearings. Spring loaded ones just keep the miter bar from rattling in the slot, they are easily overpowered by typical user forces. Frankly, except on low grade saws, miter slop is more of a perception thing. Even if you could measure the effect on a cut it would be minimal- it is wood after all. However, any minor slop will be magnified at the end of a long accessory fence. So if you sell a miter gauge with a long fence it better have a bar that can be adjusted for minimal slop.

I can't remember the last time I used my miter gauge set to anything but 90 degrees, either. Too many of us "want" a capability because it is available- somebody made something for which there wasn't really a need.

I often use a sled because I like the support it offers and too many times try to cut boards that are really too wide, too wide to cut on a tablesaw, and better done on a miter or radial arm saw. Many years ago I used Autocad to draw a template to make a Dubby-like sled. I still haven't made it- I just haven't had the need.

[Noah Katz]

I think the whole concept would work better - and turn 'miter gauges' into just 'mini sleds' - if there were *two* slots on the same side of the blade. Think about how much more stable a gauge could be with two points of contact with guide bars, not just one.

I don't see how that helps; all it takes is a left edge and a right edge of however many miter bars there are to take out the slop; any more just increases the chance of binding.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Again, there are positive stops on every degree.

Yes, and he states further down that " The Protractor Miter Gauge can be set between indexing holes as well." No indexing but it makes it infinitely adjustable.

My biggest issue is not being able to easily mount an auxiliary fence.

[glenn bradley]

His site shows how the fence accepts a stop. I don't know how you hit the common angle of 22.5* though. At his price point he may find it challenging to sell a one side of the blade, one direction tilting device when there are others that accomplish this.

Different people work differently and I wish him the best with his products. We obviously don't think along the same lines because I found it hard to find any value in the Chest-Mate product but that hardly devalues it in the hands of someone else.

In the end a single bar miter relies on rigidity and a pretty well cut miter slot. Even with a perfect gauge, the other variables involved can give less than machine-shop results. That fact has never stopped me from trying to get the best result I can and I applaud his inventiveness.

[Terry Beadle]

I use the Kreg miter gauge that is similarly priced. It has most of the features suggested but it doesn't seem as stout as this protractor Miter Guage. The results with the Kreg are dead accurate though and I'm quite pleased with it.

I would also support an easy method of attaching auxiliary fences. That is a normal requirement for any guage IMO.

The Kreg will allow adjustments of 1/10th of a degree and will switch sides of the saw blade easily. This protractor gauge looks like a left side of blade only but that can't be so it's probably just not clear how to flip sides.

[Ben Martin]

I have an alignment kit that adjusts in the slot very tightly with NO play. It uses little bearings. I wonder why no one makes a miter gauge like that (or just the tracks). Little bearings, spring loaded. That really would make everything better.

I believe on the box it says that that feature is patented, that would be why you don't see it! :D

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I don't know how you hit the common angle of 22.5* though.

That would be a problem..... I personally can't see why you would need every 1 degree positive stop. Just the "common" ones. And for sure I would want that 22.5. So, +3 for the el cheapo Incra.
And pivoting both ways.

[David Thompson 27577]

........... Also, if you read down some more, he states his rationals for not allowing "negative angle" cuts, as he calls them................

On that website, he says

"And I don’t see why a forty degree circle segment for a miter
gauge isn’t a good idea. If the market wants the forty five degrees for left handed use, we will make one for the lefties as
well. Experienced uses might know what they are doing cutting negative angles, but beginners don’t and I like the idea of
offering a miter gauge that doesn’t allow the cutting of negative angles."


So in his mind, it's a matter of being left handed or right handed. Obviously, he has no concept of why I might need to use the other side of the blade.

Imagine paying a hundred bucks for a miter guage, only to learn that you need to spend another hundred for the other half!

I'll restate my original theory. This person (the one who is touting his "invention") is not a woodworker, never has been, and has no intent to be one in the future. And in my shop, his product would be in the trash can.

[David Thompson 27577]

[QUOTE=John Coloccia;1544796]................... I have NEVER used the miter gauge on the right side of the blade or EVER adjusted to more than 45 degrees. Ever. ..................../QUOTE]


But if your miter guage only went for "positive" angles, it would be impossible to cut both ends of a piece for a simple mitered frame, using profiled stock. The profile would make it impossible to put the face-side down on the table, which makes it impossible to cut the "other" end of the board.

Which is why I still believe that this inventor does not understand the true functions of a miter guage.

[John Coloccia]

[QUOTE=John Coloccia;1544796]................... I have NEVER used the miter gauge on the right side of the blade or EVER adjusted to more than 45 degrees. Ever. ..................../QUOTE]


But if your miter guage only went for "positive" angles, it would be impossible to cut both ends of a piece for a simple mitered frame, using profiled stock. The profile would make it impossible to put the face-side down on the table, which makes it impossible to cut the "other" end of the board.

Which is why I still believe that this inventor does not understand the true functions of a miter guage.

What makes you think I cut profiled stock on my table saw? Perhaps I'm also not a woodworker and don't understand how to use a miter gauge? Please consider that not all of us work the same way or do the same kinds projects. Where does the crown moulding go on a guitar? LOL. :p

[Bill Huber]

[QUOTE=David Thompson 27577;1545125]

Where does the crown moulding go on a guitar? LOL. :p

I think it goes around the edge, right?

[johnny means]

make it impossible to put the face-side down on the table, which makes it impossible to cut the "other" end of the board.



Very first issue that popped into my head. Even with square stock, do you want to have to make half your cuts face down and get tear out in all your joints? I'm not even sure what's inventive here.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

[QUOTE=David Thompson 27577;1545125]
Where does the crown moulding go on a guitar? LOL. :p

The crown moulding goes on the top of the guitar. That's where the head is.