Another CL Rant...

[Ruhi Arslan]

There were few topics recently in regards to "CL is good - CL is bad" but let me vent off a bit...
Many several weeks ago, I found a PM 719T advertised on CL not too far from me. Replied, waited and waited and waited and asked again, got a reply saying that he would be away up to a month so we would talk once he gets back. Waited another month, sent him a reminder and he got back to me. Made an offer and he accepted it and provided me a phone number to call. I also indicated that there was a sale going on and I had to get it before the sale ends. He suggested times to come to pick it up also asked if I would be interested in other equipment he was selling including a PM2000 which I was interested and going to check it out when I get there. He suggested maybe it would be best the following week so there won't be too much rush. I reminded him that I am taking his word to defer it till after the sale is over. I've emailed him today to schedule a convenient time within next two weeks since I had no trips scheduled. He gets back to me right away saying that he had a change of heart and not selling anything. it was a gift from his wife and she was upset for him wanting to sell it. I've replied kindly stating that he should think about it how he would feel if someone else treated him as such reminding him that I took his word as is. What would say if same to happen to you? Of course, he has all the right to change his mind with or without a reason but what happen to common courtesy and keeping your word? I would have been able to have it delivered to my doorstep for $809 (CPO was applying 10% discount as well during the store wide sale event - confirmed!) if I were not too naiive to trust a stranger just because... :mad:

[Neil Brooks]

Let's say, for arguments's sake -- that the guy was telling the absolute truth.

I would say that his obligation to her is stronger than his obligation to you.

I'd be disappointed, too, if I were you.

Cross your fingers that another one comes along -- in better shape, and for a better price.

And I'll cross mine, too.

Maybe you could call CPO, tell them your story, and beg ? Seriously. Stranger things have happened......

[Bruce Page]

Ruhi, there will be another sale.
It would have been nice if he gave you a quicker response, nevertheless, the seller has every right to change his mind, particularly for the reason he gave.

[Chuck Saunders]

It is a wonder though why so many put an ad on CL or other sites and then leave town.

[Stephen Cherry]

I think that you put too much emotion into it. Craigslist is just a website that allows people to exchange information. You've just found out that some of those people are ___ ____ (fill in the explecative).

And it didn't cost you any money. I use craigslist and like it, but you can't count on anything until it is in the back of your truck.

and remember:
"THERE WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER DEALS"

[Paul McGaha]

I see people getting unbelievable good deals on craigslist so I guess it works for some.

I dont know, I think I prefer using the classified section here on the creek. Not super incredible pricing but solid. I've bought a couple of tools that way.

I've noticed an ad in the CL near me (Baltimore, MD) He says he has a brand new still in the box PM-2000 for $1250. I replied to his ad a week ago and still havent heard from him. ??? The ads still up if anyone is interested.

PHM

[Mike Heidrick]

Unfortunate but another deal is coming for you. Have patience and it will happen - maybe better than these deals!

Just tell the guy thankyou, wish him the best sincerely, let him know he can ask you any questions about wood working he might have, and move on to the next deal.

Sometimes finding close-ish woodworking friends are worth way more than woodworking deals. Good Karma will pay off big time in woodworking deal finding.

[Stephen Cherry]

Good Karma will pay off big time in woodworking deal finding.



This is it. Conduct yourself well, be patient, keep the oil changed, and it will happen. If others do not act with integrity, that's not your problem.

[Ruhi Arslan]

I concur. In my reply to him I was clean and cordial. He must feeling pretty bad. He wrote back explaining more. I said no worries and if anything changes in the future, one way or another, to let me know.

[Chip Lindley]

Many several weeks ago, I found a PM 719T advertised on CL not too far from me. Replied, waited and waited and waited and asked again, got a reply saying that he would be away up to a month so we would talk once he gets back. Waited another month, sent him a reminder and he got back to me. Made an offer and he accepted it and provided me a phone number to call. I also indicated that there was a sale going on and I had to get it before the sale ends. He suggested times to come to pick it up also asked if I would be interested in other equipment he was selling including a PM2000 which I was interested and going to check it out when I get there. He suggested maybe it would be best the following week so there won't be too much rush. I reminded him that I am taking his word to defer it till after the sale is over. I've emailed him today to schedule a convenient time within next two weeks since I had no trips scheduled. He gets back to me right away saying that he had a change of heart and not selling anything. it was a gift from his wife and she was upset for him wanting to sell it. I've replied kindly stating that he should think about it how he would feel if someone else treated him as such reminding him that I took his word as is. What would say if same to happen to you? Of course, he has all the right to change his mind with or without a reason but what happen to common courtesy and keeping your word? I would have been able to have it delivered to my doorstep for $809 (CPO was applying 10% discount as well during the store wide sale event - confirmed!) if I were not too naiive to trust a stranger just because... :mad:

Ruhi, what was your first clue that the seller was not too awfully motivated to sell??

I have never encountered quite your type of experience on CL. I have answered a few ads by email when no phone # was given, and received no response until finally the seller said it was already SOLD! CL ads with no phone # freak me out. Motivated sellers don't mind answering the phone!

But, most sellers I have done business with were ready and willling to sell if a price was agreed upon. There will always be exceptions, and extenuating circumstances beyond our control. All we as buyers can do, is try to be first in line when an item appears that we are interested in. The best bargains are usually GONE the next day. There is no time to dilly dally around!

IF I received only foot-draggng from a seller while the same item was on sale at a good discount...well, a bird in the hand...

At least you did not send money for something you did not receive. You did not drive a good distance, only to be told the item was no longer for sale. You lost only your naïveté. I have had great luck on CL so far. But, I don't doubt if I do it long enough, there is sure to be a downside, sooner or later.

[Dave MacArthur]

Ruhi, sorry to hear about the deal falling through, and it sounds like you comported yourself well.

However, my opinion on this is slightly different. This was a business deal, CraigsList was just the way you got introduced. And while supposedly verbal agreements are valid, the truth is everyone hears what they want to hear and slightly differently. No court in the land would uphold a contract without something in writing, just based on a statement from you. There's a good lesson in here for you-- get it in writing!

Every time I buy something on CL, I go view the item and MAKE THE DEAL. If for some reason I can't pick it up right then, first I am probably being foolish, but then... I have both of us sign a Contract For Sale, stating the item is sold, stating he agrees to STORE MY ITEM there until pickup at some time, and then I give him something to do so! If you "make a purchase" and contract for him to hold something for you, but you give no "consideration" i.e. pay him something for this, then there is NO SALE by contract law. You must realize that him agreeing to hold an item for you costs HIM something, if nothing else opportunity to sell to others is lost, you MUST pay him something for this.

While we may want to be able to sink a deal with a phone call, if you have any expectation that you'll both agree to the relative costs of changes in the deal or failure to execute, you MUST agree on breach penalties, timing, failure to execute costs and ramifications etc. ahead of time, and get it in writing.

Here is the "standard" form I use for securing CL sales, so I have some documentation to stand on if I feel I got taken advantage of, which you may find useful:

Agreement and Record of Sale and Receipt for Deposit

I, _____________(seller), have agreed to sell my __________________________(item model and serial #) to __________________________(buyer), for the sum of $______. The sale is effective as of noon, _________(date), contingent upon receiving a deposit of $_____ from buyer, which will be in the form of a personal check for $_____ sent via US Mail on __________(date).

I agree to deliver the saw to buyer's home address of:
___________________, by ___________(date). The remaining $______ owed will be given me upon delivery of the item, in either cash or check at my option. I will include any parts/tools/literature I have for the item as well as: __________________________________________. In the event I fail to execute this contract by date above, buyer will be entitled their deposit back as well as a liquidated damages fee of $200, which I agree is a reasonable estimate of their damages caused by my breach.


Signatures/printed name:

Seller ______________________ _______________ Date: __________

Buyer_______________________ _______________ Date: __________

[Greg Portland]

Online Craigslist ads are like asking a girl out on a 2nd date. Don't be that guy who calls 10 times and leaves a bunch of messages. Give it 2 shots and move on with life (or man up and make the deal in person).

[Brandon Weiss]

Here is the "standard" form I use for securing CL sales, so I have some documentation to stand on if I feel I got taken advantage of, which you may find useful:

Agreement and Record of Sale and Receipt for Deposit

I, _____________(seller), have agreed to sell my __________________________(item model and serial #) to __________________________(buyer), for the sum of $______. The sale is effective as of noon, _________(date), contingent upon receiving a deposit of $_____ from buyer, which will be in the form of a personal check for $_____ sent via US Mail on __________(date).

I agree to deliver the saw to buyer's home address of:
___________________, by ___________(date). The remaining $______ owed will be given me upon delivery of the item, in either cash or check at my option. I will include any parts/tools/literature I have for the item as well as: __________________________________________. In the event I fail to execute this contract by date above, buyer will be entitled their deposit back as well as a liquidated damages fee of $200, which I agree is a reasonable estimate of their damages caused by my breach.


Signatures/printed name:

Seller ______________________ _______________ Date: __________

Buyer_______________________ _______________ Date: __________



I think you guys are taking CL too seriously. It's simply a web based classified section. Personally, I would never sign a contract for a tool sale, unless you're talking something REALLY expensive. If you are selling something and I sign that contract, what's to keep you from taking parts out of the machine or swapping parts while I'm away? If you do I'm not protected from that by the contract but am still bound by contract to buy the item if I discover something like that? I don't think so. When I buy off of CL I email if there is an email and then I call. If I don't get a response from either one, I move on. Once and done. When I'm selling I hate it when the same person blasts me with tons of calls and emails. I know we're talking about expensive tools being sold sometimes, but hey, this is Craigslist, not the (insert major tool manufacturer here) Store. Ruhi, sorry you wasted a bunch of time on this, but if the guy decides right before you hand him the cash to back out he has the right. I'm sure he'd much rather be on your short list than his wife's short list. Keep looking, great CL deals are everywhere!

I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. Who knows, perhaps you'll find the deal of a lifetime now that you still have your cash and a tool need.

[Callan Campbell]

It is a wonder though why so many put an ad on CL or other sites and then leave town.
Yessss, it's like this, Umm, I'm about to waste your time ,and everyone else replying to my CL ad, but feel to engage me and get your time wasted......;):mad: Oh, and by the way, I'm leaving town for an undetermined amount of time, but still, please respond to my CL ad...:rolleyes:.
My recent Chicago CL ad favorite was a poster who didn't want people asking the following about his Campbell-Hausfeld compressor: What model is it, what are the specs on it, how big is it, etc. I mean , come on, what does he expect, russian roulette salesmanship?
Hey, don't waste my time, just guess from the picture I provided and bring your money....:p:p:p

[Steve Vaughn]

I see people getting unbelievable good deals on craigslist so I guess it works for some.

I dont know, I think I prefer using the classified section here on the creek. Not super incredible pricing but solid. I've bought a couple of tools that way.

I've noticed an ad in the CL near me (Baltimore, MD) He says he has a brand new still in the box PM-2000 for $1250. I replied to his ad a week ago and still havent heard from him. ??? The ads still up if anyone is interested.

PHM

I'm pretty sure That's the same scam artist that tried that a while back if you're talking about the "saw" in Lutherville/Timonium. Looks like the same pictures as the one that was for sale here in Houston.

Steve

[Dave Lehnert]

I think you guys are taking CL too seriously. It's simply a web based classified section. Personally, I would never sign a contract for a tool sale, unless you're talking something REALLY expensive. If you are selling something and I sign that contract, what's to keep you from taking parts out of the machine or swapping parts while I'm away? If you do I'm not protected from that by the contract but am still bound by contract to buy the item if I discover something like that? I don't think so. When I buy off of CL I email if there is an email and then I call. If I don't get a response from either one, I move on. Once and done. When I'm selling I hate it when the same person blasts me with tons of calls and emails. I know we're talking about expensive tools being sold sometimes, but hey, this is Craigslist, not the (insert major tool manufacturer here) Store. Ruhi, sorry you wasted a bunch of time on this, but if the guy decides right before you hand him the cash to back out he has the right. I'm sure he'd much rather be on your short list than his wife's short list. Keep looking, great CL deals are everywhere!

I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. Who knows, perhaps you'll find the deal of a lifetime now that you still have your cash and a tool need.

I have to agree with you. I would never sign anything like that if I was a seller. I would just tell you to move on. I don't trust you any farther you trust me. I have a friend who sells on CL all the time. I bet it's 50/50 on the people who call and actually show up. Then he gets the people who show up to only look at what he has. They are not interested at all in purchasing it.

Like others have said. People talk about buying from CL like they are buying from Sears or the like. CL is nothing more than a modern day newspaper ad.

[Barry Nelson]

Its a bit like a furniture retailer we bought from,when we first moved from the big smoke, had a very small showroom,his stock in trade was " I dont have one in stock but here is a photo of one and this is the colour range"
He soon got told we dont buy from photos,didnt buy anything from that point on.
Richard Cranium the 1st.:(

[Neil Brooks]

I've noticed an ad in the CL near me (Baltimore, MD) He says he has a brand new still in the box PM-2000 for $1250. I replied to his ad a week ago and still havent heard from him. ??? The ads still up if anyone is interested.

Same deal, six months ago, in Boulder, CO.

Many inquiries. No replies. Ad stayed up.

Knew it was hinky, but couldn't figure out exactly which species of hinky :rolleyes:

[Dave MacArthur]

Brandon and Dave---
It was a lot to read, I probably lost you in the first paragraph ;) You misinterpreted my example contract. The "contract" is obviously not for a situation where you go there and buy it. It's for the OTHER situation that we constantly read about here, and people always complain about--they made a call, agreed to buy the tool, but didn't actually pay $$ or walk off with the tool, the seller is "holding" it for them, etc... Your point is correct, but reversed: if a seller is going to hold some tool for a buyer, but refuses to sign a contract that he is doing so and took $$, then the BUYER should walk. In fact, this is a common occurrence with large tools--you go view it first, but don't go to the expense of renting a lift-gate or trailer until you know you want it. NOW, how do you secure the sale without the thing actually in your possession without getting cheated? The 100% time tested answer, supported without any disagreement whatsoever by absolutely EVERY aspect of the business world and legal system: a contract.

In fact, we're about saying the same thing--but I'm going one step further. If you DON'T pay/take/walk, and you are somehow relying on seller's good nature to hold a tool for you... THEN get it in writing.

[George Sanders]

I have bought a few things on CL and sold a lot of things there. I wade through the spam and answer in a timely manner. When I went to the fields in planting season I removed all of my adds to avoid any hassles. Then reposted afterward. It's called integrity and some people will never have any.
Then there are the buyers who want to pay less than the agreed upon price. Doesn't work with me. Niether does asking for extras. If it wasn't in the ad it doesn't go. I did throw in a motor and switch with an old craftsman scroll saw once as I had a pile of fractional hp motors I wanted to thin out.
The sellers who don't respond after 2 emails are history. I move on and buy the item somewhere else. Don't talk yourself into a bad deal.

[Philip Rodriquez]

If you find a deal on CL, jump on it NOW. Some people will hold it and some won't. I've had two items sold out from under me. One was while I was on my way (40 miles) there... and the guy knew it. That's life and it sucks.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, the guy knew you told him you were on the way. I've had people "on their way" who apparently got lost never to be seen or heard from again.

Signing some kind of contract on a major purchase where the transaction can't be completed immediately is understandable. Very few hobby-level woodworking items would fall in that category in my mind--I'm thinking more like a car. And in that case I take a non-refundable deposit and make that clear. We did that when we sold our pop up camper because I literally had 10 people waiting to hear back from me.

[Callan Campbell]

[QUOTE=Matt Meiser;1544314]Well, the guy knew you told him you were on the way. I've had people "on their way" who apparently got lost never to be seen or heard from again. - Yes, Matt, I listed something on the "Free" section of craigslist. Had the first guy who called about it say he was "on his way" , got directions, ANDDDDDD, never heard from him again.:confused: I think bears got 'em, urban bears that is. I also had people practically beating down the door for a brad nailer that I put in the Free section. I didn't know my new iPhone could ring that fast in a minute!:p
Funniest one was the free battery tester that I tried to meet up with a guy to GIVE him. He broke down 3 blocks from our meeting place and I drove down the street to find him, broken down in the parking lot of an auto parts store. At least they had the right parts for the drivers side brake caliper on his older conversion van! Felt really sorry for that guy, he was getting the tester for his son.:o

[Chris Tsutsui]

The only downside to craigslist is it reduces the sales of new machines and tools.

Just don't get emotional about it and consider it a blessing if you do snag a deal. Then be sure to gloat about it here so everyone can tell you how much you suck.

[Doug Carpenter]

I like the posts that say they'll post pictures later that day. Why not post the whole thing later when you are ready?

I like the joke about Craig's freinds can kick facebook's friends a$$.

alot of people on craigslist are nuts!

Ofcouse I have many good transactions and met alot of nice people too. But you have to keep your BS radar up at all times. It there is any nonsense then cut your losses.

Why the heck would the guy post something and leave town? because he is scamming.

[Dan Karachio]

Whether CL or the old classifieds, people can be just plain weird. With business with strangers you should probably play by the *one* strike and you are out rule. Any weirdness, vacillation, rudeness, lack of response and that's it, over, done, don't look back. Even if it is a 18" European made Laguna for $400 (well...).

I have had a few whackos via CL (buying and selling), but the majority have been very nice people where we end up yapping for a while about tools, woodworking and all that.