Which dovetail saw: opinion from those who knows

[Shawn Stennett]

I have been cutting all my dovetails with a Japanese pull saw and like it alright but want to get a western style saw. I got a chance to try the veritas saw at the Woodworking Show in Mesquite yesterday and liked it but don't know how it compares to other saws. I am considering a few different ones and would like to know all of your opinions on them and others maybe. I have been reading several posts abou saws recently but they haven't really been compared to each other. I am looking at the Veritas saw, the Lie-Nielson dovetail saw, Wenzloff & Sons saw, and the Gramercy dovetail saw. Which one should I get?

[Jim R Edwards]

I have been very happy with my Lie Nielsen DT saw.

[Andrew Gibson]

I would say you can't go wrong with any of them. I have a LV dovetail saw and the handle fits my hand very well. I ware a medium to M/L glove if that helps give you an idea of my hand size.
I handled the LV saws and felt that the handles are to large for me.
I have for wenzloff kits and all are great saw I made my own handles so they all fit quite nicely :)

I have not had the pleasure to handle the TFWW saws, but for some reason think the handles are on the slim side, I think mikes handles are slimish as well. Don't take my word for mikes or TFWW's handle size.

[Mark Stutz]

Shawn,
This is sorta like Ford vs. Chevy:D:eek:. Seriously though, handling them and cutting is the best way to see which one feels best in your hand. The Adria was the first DT saw I had many years ago. Beautiful saw out of the box. It was very hard for me to start though that did get better. also the heaviest of my DT saws. I have a small Wenzloff saw that I really like,especially for thinner stock. I had a chance to test drive a Grammercy...very light weight, starts first time every time, and the hang is perfect for me...now my go to DT saw. I tried a LN in the showroom when I was there 3 years ago. It felt good but not better than what I had. I've tried the LV only once so really can't compare. Never tried a Bad Axe but hear great things.

If you have a chance to get to one of the shows you can try several side by side. The god thing about any of the new saws is that you can sell them for 80-90% of what you paid if you don't like it or find one you like better.

I'm afraid I can't tell you which "one" to get;)

Mark

[Shawn Stennett]

They all are real lose on paper as far as I can tell with only slight differences in tpi and blade thickness. The Ln 15 tpi, Gramercy 19tpi, Wenzloff 14 and Veritas 14 or 20 and the Gramercy being the tinnest blade at .018 thick. With comfort and feel of the saws is hard because I have no access to play with any. I had a chance tis weekend because LN had a handtool event in Houston but I went to the wood working show instead. I wish I would have gone to Houston, the show was disappointing except I spenta good amount of time talking to a school that was there from near Waco. They offer several classes that I am interested in.

[Josh Rudolph]

I have the LV...really like it.
My buddy has the LN...really like it.
I have put my hands on the Gramercy...it cuts just as well. Though I do not like how the overall height of the blade is so short. It essentially limits the saw to DT's.
Never tried a Wenzloff, so I can't comment. But hey they are still in business in a product line that would not keep them around if they were putting out junk.
I don't think Bad Axe offers a DT saw yet.
You can't go wrong with any honestly.

However, for the money of one you can buy a set from LV and have a crosscut saw also. Pair is $109...set of 3 $159. Hard to beat prices like that!

[george wilson]

I believe that LN now has a .015" dovetail saw,unless I am hallucinating.:)

For the money involved,and their good workmanship,I'd go with the LN,if I didn't make my own.

[John Coloccia]

I almost bought the LN but it felt cramped and blocky in my hand. The Veritas felt just right. Other than that, they're all really nice. You won't go wrongin terms of performance. You just have to find what's comfortable to you. I will say that the Veritas is far and away the best value of the bunch and you don't give up any performance.

I'd love to hear from someone who's played with Cosman's saw. That thing looks very nice.

[Griph0n Brown]

Performance aside (it will take more than a perfect saw to make all MY cuts perfect), how it fits the hand seems to be the deciding factor for me from now on. My hands don't seem too big to me, quite attractive I think, but are definitely too large for some saws.

I've got a Cosman Dovetail saw and a Lee Valley crosscut carcase saw that cut for hours without no trouble. My friend has a Gramercy that I tried and seems to fit my hand quite well..
My Lrg Tenon and Halfback saws from Wenzloff cut fine but are too small. My hand cramps up pretty quick.....(but they look sooo good).

I'm waiting on a Medallion saw, you send hand measurements to him, maybe that will be the trick and worth the money.

On the other..um hand.. it could be an excuse to buy a nice $100 french rasp.

[James Phillips]

I have a LN dovetail saw and a LV cross cut saw. They are the same size and if I did not already have the LN I would buy the DT saw from LV. FOr what its worth

[Chris Griggs]

One thing you might want to factor into your considerations is that you can send both the Gramercy and the LN into the companies for resharpening, at a very low cost.

Not a huge deal since your saw probably won't need sharpening that often anyway, but its definitely nice to have the option if, like me, you haven't learned to sharpen saws yet.

For what its worth I'm very happy with my LN saws. The handle size and slight squareness (as opposed to being completely rounded) makes for a nice grip.

[Shawn Stennett]

I am starting to lean towards the LV saw with all of the sugestions. I sure do love the look of the LN and Gramercy saw, but if performance would be the same then I would probaly get both the dovetail saw and the crossut saw as someone suggested. Which version should I get the 14 or 20 tpi? I have been working with 1/2 drawers lately but woud like to do case work to. Also I know it depends on how much use but how often do you guys have to have them sharpened?

[David Keller NC]

Shawn - Unfortunately, all of the above replies are incorrect. Not that they're actually incorrect (kinda hard to go wrong with the "I have XXX saw and love it" response), but in that they will not ultimately be helpful to you.

If you've used a japanese pull saw exclusively to cut dovetails, all of the above mentioned saws will feel "wrong" to you - at first. But with time, you will train your hands, eyes and brain to work efficiently with any of the high-quality western dovetail saws now manufactured by individual shops and small companies (yeah, I still regard Lee Valley as small).

Once you do that, it's highly likely that picking up another manufacturer's high-quality western dovetail saw will feel "wrong". At least until you've used it for a while, in which case it may become your new favorite.

If you're getting my drift, you'll understand that there isn't a "best" one. Even going to a WW show and trying out 4 or 5 different ones will still not assist you, because much like test-driving a car for 10 miles, you really can't form a lasting opinion that quickly.

The only saws that you should stay far, far away from are the big home store's offerings from Stanley, Buck, and others, and the ones now manufactured in Sheffield by Garlick, Lynx, and Pax. These can be made to work fairly well (I've done it, but it took a LOT of work), but you will never get past the unacceptable, inexpensive handles with corners that would make a prickly pear cactus seem comfortable.

[John Keeton]

I'd love to hear from someone who's played with Cosman's saw. That thing looks very nice.My first dovetail saw was the LV, and it is a very nice saw. For the money, probably as good as you can do.

About a year ago, or more, I bought the Cosman saw, and not needing two - sold the LV. IMO, the Cosman is a superior saw, both in cut and in the feel and heft of the saw.

However, as has been noted, much of this is how the saw feels to you. I have handled an LN, and while I am convinced it would have the same high quality as all of their saws, it did not feel right to me. I have small hands, and the LV seems to fit a broader range of folks from what I gleaned from prior threads a year or so ago.

[Tom Godley]

At the dovetail class I took a few years ago - the then new Gramercy saw from TFWW really stood out -- everyone liked it. Not too big - nice handle and the teeth were sharp and fine. The LV was a little bigger and the teeth a little coarse - but still a great saw and a terrific saw for the price. Having tried the LN saw -- I still favor the smaller size of the Gramercy. LV then came out with the finer toothed saw. I bought a three saw package from them last year at Valley Forge WWA -- that came with the new saw.

For the money -- you can not go wrong with the LV finer toothed saw. Do I like the looks and the slightly smaller blade the Gramercy -- yes ..... but its all in my head .... The LV works just as well.

[Tom Godley]

John -- can you please teach a class on "tool selling" -- How does that work?

I need to learn! ......... soon.

[John Keeton]

John -- can you please teach a class on "tool selling" -- How does that work?

I need to learn! ......... soon.Tom, I have sold a bunch of them - all very traumatic events, BTW!!!:D But, all the sales were associated with another purchase, so I am not sure I have much to teach other than "buy up!":o

Shawn, I will add, that if you get the LV, consider taking 2-3 very light passes on the side of the teeth with a stone - both sides. This improved the cut on mine substantially and left a much smoother kerf. The newer fine tooth saw may not respond the same.

[gary Zimmel]

I've got a few dovetail saws. Medallion, LN, and a couple of Cosmans.
I learnt to cut dovetails with a regular LN. Got a progressive LN to see how it would be but preferred the regular one.
When Cosman came out with his I got one and have been very happy with it. The 22 TPI at the tip makes for a easy clean start. I really like this feature for doing the pins on a half blind. His saws also have a very small set which makes a very clean cut. It's a bit pricey but I think it is worth it. The Cosman saw is now my go to one.
Good luck on your pick Shawn. But between you and me over time you will end up with a few.... They seem to be addictive.

[Shawn Stennett]

Gary, I haven't even got one and I feel like I would like a few.

[Zach England]

I am lousy at cutting dovetails, but good at buying dovetail saws. I have (or have had):

Adria
Veritas 14 and 20 TPI (sold the 14 a while ago)
Glen Drake
Grammacy
LN straight handled

I like the Adria the best, but I did have to modify the handle to make it more comfortable. The Glen Drake is totally different. It's only a dovetail saw in its application. In the little bit I have used it I like the way it cuts but find the handle uncomfortable. I have considered buying a replacement blade and fashioning my own back and handle for it.

[Rick Lasita]

Shawn, I have been happy with my LN saw and have had the opportunity to use a couple of those mentioned in your post. Quite frankly, I think it is what you like, and I also found out it's not the saw so much as it is the person holding the saw and cutting the dovetails :) Good luck with your choice.

[Derek Cohen]

I have been cutting all my dovetails with a Japanese pull saw and like it alright but want to get a western style saw. I got a chance to try the veritas saw at the Woodworking Show in Mesquite yesterday and liked it but don't know how it compares to other saws. I am considering a few different ones and would like to know all of your opinions on them and others maybe. I have been reading several posts abou saws recently but they haven't really been compared to each other. I am looking at the Veritas saw, the Lie-Nielson dovetail saw, Wenzloff & Sons saw, and the Gramercy dovetail saw. Which one should I get?

Hi Shawn

This review and comparison may help: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/TheVeritas20ppiDovetailSaw.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

Everyone here is so SPOILED:):):). Years ago you'd have been using standard European junk and thinking it was great!!! This really is a new age for tool users,except now,there is mass confusion about all the choices.

[Roy Lindberry]

I have been cutting all my dovetails with a Japanese pull saw and like it alright but want to get a western style saw. I got a chance to try the veritas saw at the Woodworking Show in Mesquite yesterday and liked it but don't know how it compares to other saws. I am considering a few different ones and would like to know all of your opinions on them and others maybe. I have been reading several posts abou saws recently but they haven't really been compared to each other. I am looking at the Veritas saw, the Lie-Nielson dovetail saw, Wenzloff & Sons saw, and the Gramercy dovetail saw. Which one should I get?

I have the Lee Valley fine tooth dovetail saw, and it is far and away better than the old saw I was using. I would like to have the coarser teeth, though, so I might get that.

For the price, I don't think it can be beat although I haven't tried any other high end saws yet.

My only complaint about the Lee Valley saw is aesthetic. I really like the traditional backsaw look (i.e. Lie-Neilsen), rather than the modern look of my saw.

[Shawn Stennett]

Roy- I feel the sameway about the looks but as many people have said about the price for quality ratio is good. I have decided on the pair of saws from LV. I finely let go and decided because of what Gary Zimmel said about most likely I will end up with a few. I figure that one I get used to the style I can figure out what I like and what I don't while not spending too much while retaining quality.

Derek- How many forums are you a part off? I think everytime I google something woodworking and look at different forums there are post from you. Oh by the way, I enjoyed your review very much, it was very detailed.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Can I offer a suggestion. All the saws you mention are made by reputable companies. Give it some though - order a saw or two and return the ones you don't want. Some vendors even pay return shipping. The saw that speaks to you is a highly personally thing not not inexpensive. You need to get your hands on them to find out what speaks to you.

(ps no manufacter or retailer complains minds if something gets returned as long as it was ordered in good faith and the tool is given a chance to win the customers heart.)

[Rob Lee]

Can I offer a suggestion. All the saws you mention are made by reputable companies. Give it some though - order a saw or two and return the ones you don't want. Some vendors even pay return shipping. The saw that speaks to you is a highly personally thing not not inexpensive. You need to get your hands on them to find out what speaks to you.

(ps no manufacter or retailer complains minds if something gets returned as long as it was ordered in good faith and the tool is given a chance to win the customers heart.)


Joel -

Your post script is correct - retailers don't mind if a transaction is in good faith - but the body of your text suggests doing the opposite - ordering more saws than you plan to keep. That just raises costs for everyone, and is an abuse of goodwill.

Rob

[george wilson]

I agree,Rob. We have that happen to us sometimes,and we are a very small company with 2 full time employees,trying to not lay anyone off in this economy.

[Prashun Patel]

If it were me (and it was me), just follow your instinct. You can't go wrong with your array. All of these will be vast improvements over your previous experience. You will learn over time what features really matter to you. This will inform yr next saw purchase - which I believe will come at some point. If in the future, you decide to sell whatever u purchase now, all of these saws have excellent resale values.

With good tools, you're really just renting.

I ended up with the Veritas 20tpi. I love everything about it; and it's priced low to boot. The angle, heft, rigidity, and balance are all great for me. The only complaint I've ever heard about is the look of it (although I love even that).

[Joel Moskowitz]

Joel -

Your post script is correct - retailers don't mind if a transaction is in good faith - but the body of your text suggests doing the opposite - ordering more saws than you plan to keep. That just raises costs for everyone, and is an abuse of goodwill.

Rob

Rob,
How is a person supposed to know if they are going to like something without trying it first? If you walk into a store and want to buy a pair of pants you try it on first and if you are clever you walk into the dressing room with several pairs - it's faster. With mail order clothing it's the same thing - I buy most of my clothes mail order and a decent portion goes back. But if I could not return the stuff that I didn't like or didn't fit I would not buy in the first place. With tools a box of nails is pretty much a box of nails but when it comes to pricier tools it's much harder to make an optimal selection and you have to try to see what fits your hand. For someone will little exposure to various makers I don't know what other advice to give. And we pay return shipping (I think you do too) so it's frustrating when something comes back, but I would rather have a customer try our tools and then return them and maybe get something in the future than not have the opportunity to comparison shop.
Of course it's more efficient for us when someone gets a chance to play with our tools at a show or in a class but sometimes that isn't practical.

[Matt Benton]

Rob,

You may have already considered this, but it seems like an opportunity may be presenting itself. Demo programs are quite popular in the world of sporting goods...

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/demoprogram.html

...and to the point, Joel is correct, it would be difficult for the OP to experience all of the choices before making a decision, however businesses should not bear that burden unless they choose to do so.

If you are really that concerned about the choices, buy 3 and sell the 2 you like least for 90% of retail. Paying $30-$40 for the peace of mind seems like a bargain to me...

[Larry Fox]

I have a Wenzloff and really, really like it. It fits my hand very well. If it has an apology it is that it is a little light when weighed against the rest of the field. For what it is worth I also have their cross-cut sash saw and love it as well.

I have taken at least a stroke or so with the Veritas, LN and Rob Cosman versions. If the Wenzloff was not in the field and I had a decent chunk of spare $$ lying around I would give the Cosman one a really serious look as it is a really nice saw with great build quality and heft.

The Veritas cut surprisingly well given it's price point (relative to the rest of the field). It had nice heft but I just can't get past the way it looks. I know it is a stupid and nit-picky thing but it really looks funny (sorry Rob).

[David Weaver]

I have been cutting all my dovetails with a Japanese pull saw and like it alright but want to get a western style saw. I got a chance to try the veritas saw at the Woodworking Show in Mesquite yesterday and liked it but don't know how it compares to other saws. I am considering a few different ones and would like to know all of your opinions on them and others maybe. I have been reading several posts abou saws recently but they haven't really been compared to each other. I am looking at the Veritas saw, the Lie-Nielson dovetail saw, Wenzloff & Sons saw, and the Gramercy dovetail saw. Which one should I get?

You have the saw to cut dovetails already, so there's no time pressure.

I would buy a vintage dovetail saw with all the teeth on and the file to file it. You're going to file it rip, anyway, so if you're ever going to find a saw that's easy to file, it's going to be a small joinery saw rip - there's a lot of forgiveness. You could even do progressive rake, which is made out to be some big whup, but I've seen progressive rake and progressive toothing on old saws that I've gotten where the filer wasn't particularly skilled.

You don't even need to have a saw vice - a machinist vise and a couple of scraps is fine.

I got a nurse dovetail saw on ebay last week for $45. The week before, I got an open handled split nut dovetail saw from one of the online sellers for about that much. I'm out $90 + $15 for shipping for two saws (shipped from two different places), and possibly one file by the time both are tuned up (the first one is already running fine).

I don't know if they'll (those two saws) ever get me to stop doing dovetails with a good rip dozuki - even a .015" plate dovetail saw can't touch the kerf of the very fine rip dozukis, but I'm going to give it a shot if for nothing else just because I can sharpen the saws.

[Rob Lee]

Rob,
How is a person supposed to know if they are going to like something without trying it first?

Joel -

I have no beef with returns - and yes - we eat the postage both ways. We do so - as our return policy , by and large, is not abused.

If you re-read what you wrote - you're suggesting a customer buy several saws, try 'em all, and return the ones he doesn't want. That's bad faith purchasing in my book. No only could we conceivably eat the return shipping, we'd end up with a used saw too.

I'm just surprised you'd encourage consumers to do so...

Rob

[george wilson]

It is extraordinary the abuse I have seen Lowe's take. I have a friend who worked there. She said people would buy a power tool,build a house with it,lose the box,get it all beaten up,and return it. The only time I ever return things is when the quality is just so bad I don't want to use,or fix,it.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Rob,
The OP asked that he tried your saw at a show and how does it compare to other similar saws on the market. And which one should he get.

I get this question and permutations of this question all the time. And lets face it the answer isn't obvious. So the only actual advice I can give a customer that makes any sense to me is "buy our saw, try it, and if you don't like it return it and we will pay the return postage". I would assume that you or any of my competitors would reply exactly the same way. I can't see myself saying "well if you already have a saw you think you are happy with leave it at that" . Fortunately our returns are very low and customers don't abuse the privilege so the advice seems to be reasonable. But yes - carried to an extreme it could be bad faith but it typically isn't.

[Tim Null]

This is to Joel and Rob,

How about a demo program?

It would work like this:

You set aside a certain number of saws as demos. Customer orders a demo, pays shipping both ways. There is a deposit via charge card for retail. Customer returns saw after a certain period of time, like 30 days. Late fees charged for late return. If they want to order a saw, give a small discount or offer free shipping.

After a certain number of demos, sell the saws at 50% off retail. Then put new saws into the mix. Keep the number of times a saw is demoed to a minimum so that it still feels relatively new.

Benefits:

Customers can try a number of saws for the price of shipping, no obligation.

You get more people trying your saws, thus more sales. The cost is simply 50% off of retail for the demos you sell. Cheap advertising in my book.

What do you think?

[David Weaver]

It is extraordinary the abuse I have seen Lowe's take. I have a friend who worked there. She said people would buy a power tool,build a house with it,lose the box,get it all beaten up,and return it. The only time I ever return things is when the quality is just so bad I don't want to use,or fix,it.

Me, too. Something has to really be a lost cause. I think I've returned something about 3 times, and never to Rob or Joel. Twice to amazon because they put their SKU UPC for the grip tite full set on one single grip tite feather clamp, and sent me one clamp twice for the price of the full set. I'll bet a lot of people got those, and you can't talk to someone in the US to actually get them to fix it.

We on this board probably make a small % of the lowes buyers. The rest probably abuse the system and make everything else more expensive for the rest of us. The only fortunate thing is that the manufacturing cost of a lot of the goods is a small part of the purchase price now (the ones sold at lowes, not the ones at TFWW or LV), so maybe the impact is less.

When i get the urge to send something back because I don't like it, and I know the manufacturers don't offer to sell those items second hand, I hitch a little and think about whether or not it's fair for me to expect someone else to absorb my experimentation. Seems sort of presumptuous.

[Mark Maleski]

I have to agree with David Keller's post way back on the first page. I have a hard time accepting that, given the high-quality saws available today, it makes much of a difference in the end result. I've been cutting my dovetails exclusively with a LN saw (which I bought when it was just about the only good choice), but I'm pretty sure if I switched to a LV/Wenzloff/BadAx/Adria/restoredDisston/Gramercy/Medallion/etc the joint would look pretty much the same. I can buy that there's a comfort factor - a little bit - but unless you're spending all day cutting dovetails it's gotta be a pretty small factor. I can also buy that some will be more grabby than others...but you'll quickly adjust to that too with a lighter touch.

As George said, we're all spoiled. And I love it.

[David Weaver]

One thing that ought to be set up here is a public record on SMC, or wherever else, where premium tools go onto an exchange. Each time you want to try a premium tool, one on the exchange goes to you and you try it. A record is kept of who is holding it (on here or somewhere else), and when the next person wants to try the tool, they contact the last person on the list with it and that person is obligated to send it or pay the exchange for the tool.

I don't know who the saint would be who would run something like that, it would be a lot of headache.

You can either do that or work something out with a friend who has a tool habit. A buddy and I wanted to try out the veritas and LN scrubs. We ordered one of each and agreed that we would decide who got to keep which one (we operate like that, without having to have an undue amount of rules). When we got them, it turned out the LN was too small for his gorilla hands, but not for mine, so I got to try both and I kept the LN (until I ultimately traded it for an LV scrub to someone else who wanted an LN).

There are just so many ways to work around it that don't put an undue strain on the seller.

[David Weaver]

As George said, we're all spoiled. And I love it.

Big ditto - no real life difference at all. If one didn't work, we'd know all about it long ago.

[Mark Maleski]

One thing that ought to be set up here is a public record on SMC, or wherever else, where premium tools go onto an exchange....

....You can either do that or work something out with a friend who has a tool habit.

Good idea, David, and could also be implemented at the local guild level. E.g., a "bring your dt saws for tryout" agenda item for the upcoming meeting. Maybe I'll suggest it to mine.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...
If you are really that concerned about the choices, buy 3 and sell the 2 you like least for 90% of retail. Paying $30-$40 for the peace of mind seems like a bargain to me...


You mean there are actually people out there losing peace of mind over a dovetail saw?! Hard to believe. I say get a good dozuki and have at it (a good source of these is LV, btw, great dovetail saws); or buy a Kanaharu and spend more.

Pam

[Zach England]

If anyone has a LN thin plate they want to part with PM me.

[Peter Cobb]

Rob,
So the only actual advice I can give a customer that makes any sense to me is "buy our saw, try it, and if you don't like it return it and we will pay the return postage"

Maybe the key is "if you don't like it"... if I like them all I might end up with 5 new DT saws... :D. (Not that anyone is going to offer free shipping to this neck of the woods).
On a serious note, maybe the potential for abuse is greater for Lee Valley than for TFWW? Not sure though.
Cheers,
Peter

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

The cost of shipping is significant in our industry - and getting rapidly higher.

We put every effort into accurate and truthful copy to telegraph exactly what you're getting... there should be no surprises. What we endeavor to do is set an expectation, and then exceed it..

Everything we do, from photography to copy, (not to mention QC) is geared to minimize returns.

Frankly - if someone wants to comparison shop using mail-order, I'd rather be left off the list.

To mis-quote Yoda... "Buy, or buy not.... there is no try."

If something doesn't meet an expectation - then returning it is more than fair...


Cheers -

Rob

[Pam Niedermayer]

...
Frankly - if someone wants to comparison shop using mail-order, I'd rather be left off the list.

To mis-quote Yoda... "Buy, or buy not.... there is no try."

If something doesn't meet an expectation - then returning it is more than fair...

Sometimes these days it seems that sellers should be so pleased that a given person, famous or not, is buying from them that it's not supposed to matter whether or not the seller makes any money off the patronage. Like everyone's a celebrity who can bring more business. Of course, this attitude is easier to hold if one's never had to meet payroll.

Pam

[Peter Cobb]

Hi -

The cost of shipping is significant in our industry - and getting rapidly higher.

Frankly - if someone wants to comparison shop using mail-order...

I know about shipping and insurance, I have to pay an extra 26% (VAT and duties) on tool cost+shipping+insurance... that means I probably wont return something even if it's a dud, it isn't worth it. So I assume the risk every time...

Don't ask about the complete disaster it is trying to bring used tools in (they don't pay tax so get scrutinized 10 times and have to jump through bureaucratic hoops)

Talking of which I need to convince LOML/SWMBO that the next mail order is indispensable...

Cheers,
Peter

[Lawrence Richards]

I have the Veritas 14 TPI and like it very much. It was a good balance of value/quality for me and I plan to couple (threesome? :rolleyes:) it with a crosscut and 20tpi in the future (after my zona gives out).

I was able to test drive the saw, alongside the Cosman and Lie Nielsen, at the Craftsman Studio in San Diego. This store is quite nice in that they have a "test drive" workbench set up where you can try before you buy and can therefore feel more confident in your purchase. I know this is obviously not an option for everyone (San Diego is a 6-hour drive for me from Tucson) but hey, the kids get to see Shamu too!

Good luck with your purchase choice-- there is certainly enough material on the 'net to make an informed decision before pulling the trigger. In addition, the tools from LN, LV, Wenzloff, Gramercy, Independence etc. have a very high resell value if the tool just "isn't for you" but meets the manufacturer specs.

All in all, I agree with the others and feel quite fortunate that we have so many high-quality choices available to us.

Lawrence

[Prashun Patel]

...it's not supposed to matter whether or not the seller makes any money off the patronage...this attitude is easier to hold if one's never had to meet payroll.


Here, here! I'm not in retail, but do deal directly with my wholesale customers. Nowadays a lot of people keep you over the barrel and threaten to take the biz down the street if you don't make certain unprofitable concessions. Shipping is the big one.

Grizzly charges a fair price for shipping, and charges restocking fees on some returns. I respect them for being ABLE to do this in this day 'n age.