Opinions on trim nailers

[Eric Wheeler]

Ok Guys, a question has been wondering around my mind for a few years and I just now stumbled back upon it while browsing trim nailers. Why does it seem that every company has a 15, 16, and 18 Ga nailer? I get having 2 sizes, sometimes you want a bigger nail for more strength, sometimes a smaller to hide better or help eliminate splitting. But why the heck is it needed to have the 15 AND 16...is that 9 and 1/2 thousandths really enough difference to justify? It doesn't make sense to me why they'd design/manufacture both, and DEFINITELY doesn't make sense to me to want to purchase both

[Rich Engelhardt]

15 has a head
16 doesn't

16 is a brad nailer
15 is a finishing nailer


9 and 1/2 thousandths really enough difference to justify?
Yes - see first point.
Because of the head, the 15 needs quite a bit more oomph to contersink a fastener.
The air head on my 15 is half again larger than the air head on my 16.

Also the 15's are a lot closer to a traditional hand driven finishing nail in terms of strength. Plus, with the added oomph of the larger air head, 15's will go deep into harder woods. W/the additional girth, the 15's will go deep and straight also.

OTOH - 16's, which are no weak sister in their own right compared to an 18, can go straighter than an 18 w/a longer or same size fastener.
A 2.5" 16 in trim can be a formitable thing to have to remove....as I found out first hand this past month when doing a lot of trim around the house.

(Tip to anyone that has to remove a 16. You pull the trim off by pulling the fastener through the trim, leaving it in the casement. Then you wriggle the 16 back and forth and break it off near the base. A quick whack with a hammer finishes it off & you're all set to put the right piece of trim up...:o..)

16's are also less prone to splitting than a 15.


However - after saying all that - I got along fine with just a 16 & an 18 for a long time.

I picked up a 23 about a year ago & now use that for about 80% of the things I used the 18 for.

I also had 7 six panel oak pre hung doors to install recently & an excellent price on a Grex 15 came along so I bought it. I'd budegted full price for the doors, and when I got them on sale, I was money enough ahead to afford the $70.00 Grex.

16's and heavy solid core oak doors are, IMHO, too "iffy".

Me and a hammer (was probably going to) = a smashed door stop @ some point, so I really wanted a nailer to hang the doors.

HTH

[John McClanahan]

Woodworking is my hobby. I don't depend on my tools for a paycheck. I can't justify the cost of top name tools that don't get used all that much. In this case, I own the Harbor Freight 15 ga. angle head and the 23 pin nailers. Both have served me well.

John

[Peter Pedisich]

Hi,

16ga was my first, it did base,casing, crown quite well.
Next came an 18, and mitered corners and small coves dont split as much as the 16. Also the 18 is a much lighter gun than my 16.
23 came next for small mouldings to hold in place while glue dries, very, very handy. Love it, there is no alternative sometimes.
Just added a 15 for some exterior trimwork, and like Rich said it's more like a regular finish nail with a smaller version of a clipped head like the framing nails. Holding power so far seems definately better than my 16ga.
I just wish they made ring shank 15ga finish nails.
I guess thats what a siding nailer is for!

The 16 really is versatile.

Pete

[Rich Engelhardt]

I just wish they made ring shank 15ga finish nails.
I guess thats what a siding nailer is for!

The 16 really is versatile.

Or - use a plam nailer.
Probobly the most versitile of the bunch.
I love mine!

[Will Blick]

Great response Rich....

I would add just one bit....

a 15 being a nail, vs. a brad, has tremendous holding power when angled for shelf supports vs. a 16 brad. For supporting trim (just its own weight) 15g can be over kill and makes a visible hole in the wood vs. a 16g, as Rich mentioned, due to the head on the 15g.

As discussed in another thread, I think if there is any slight redundancy between nailers, its between the 16g and 18g. Different, yes, but less distinction than 15/16 and 18/23. So I think this question of redundancy lies more between 16/18. Maybe others can comment.....

The value of the 23 at a few ft distance, the hole is invisible.... sure its a wimpy nail, but at the right angle, it can still support reasonable size trim.

[Eric Wheeler]

Ok, everything that was said, I understand, except a minor discrepancy. I looked at a couple different sites (Dewalt and Bostitch) and they call the 18 brad nailer, 23 pin nailer, and 15 and 16 are both finish nailers. Maybe other companies are different, but the ones I have been looking into (which is where the question was inspired from) say otherwise. It looks like 15 ga is the angled nailers and 16 ga are straight nailers. Could that have something to do with it? Angled need to be a bit more stout to keep from bending, etc? Also, Bostitch shows very well on their site the "nails" offered. Pins have NO head, where brads have a slight curved/tapered head, and finish nails have like a countersink looking head. Again, this may vary between brands. So with that, would there be any reason to need (or even want) both a 15 and 16?

[Greg R Bradley]

The typical 23ga nailer is made for 23ga Pins, which have no head. There are a few units that will also fire a 23ga Brad, sometimes called a 23ga Slight Headed Pin.

A Brad is a Pin with a rectangular head. The width of the head is the same size as the shaft and the length of the head is about twice that. If you look at one from the side, it looks like the letter "T". If you turn it 90 degress it looks like a pin.

The typical (almost only) 18ga nailer is made for 18ga Brads.

The typical 16ga nailer is made for 16ga Brads. Unfortunately, this seems to be normally called a 16ga Straight Nailer. Exactly like an 18ga Brad, except a bit larger. BUT, There is a 16ga angled nialer, which fires something closer to a nail with an oval head. Paslode and Bostich are the only two suppliers of this that I have seen.

The typical 15ga nailer is made for the DA type nails. This is a nail, very similar to a finish nail that you would use with a hammer. The head is round. This is huge compared to the 16ga straight brad/nail. There is also a FN type 15ga angled nail, which I think is Bostitch only. I believe this is less of a nail than the normal DA nail, perhaps it is a 15ga brad.

[Will Blick]

Eric, I think you might have stumbled on a slight difference in manufacturers nailer types. One would have thought they were all standardizied, since the goal is to allow them all to use the same nails.

But maybe one or two of the makers felt they could get a lock on the nail replacement sales if they sold an orphan. Like inkjet printers, they sell the printer cheap, and software lock the ink carts and force ya to buy theres, which is where the profit is. Just specualtion, but I think that is what you might have discovered... let us know.

I have noticed at times, when you buy nails, the guns they will fit in is disclosed. This seemed odd to me..., cause I felt any 16g nail pack would fit in any 16g nail gun. But that might not be the case, hence why some makers list the guns...its not ultra common, and maybe the industry was once not standardized, and a few of these orphans nailers remain. Anyway, check into what nails are fit the gun you are considering.

good post Greg....

[Rich Engelhardt]

Anyway, check into what nails are fit the gun you are considering.


That bears repeating.
My Grex 15 uses the Senco DA.
Bostitch 2.5" FN won't fit it/ They are just a hair too long.

A word to the wise is, check the manual of the gun you buy to make sure you get the right fastener.

[Bill White]

My list:
16, 18, 23ga. nailers. 1/4" narrow crown and std. wide crown upholsterer's stapler. There have been times when I wanted the 15ga., but not enough to buy one. I've never had a trim job fail with the 16 and 18 ga. guns. The 23ga. has been sweet for the tiny "hold 'em while the glue dries" jobs.
Bill

[Peter Pedisich]

As discussed in another thread, I think if there is any slight redundancy between nailers, its between the 16g and 18g. Different, yes, but less distinction than 15/16 and 18/23. So I think this question of redundancy lies more between 16/18. Maybe others can comment.....


Very good point.

Also, as others have said, note the difference of the Bostich 15ga nails from the Senco type DA.
I bought a nailer that takes the DA type after looking at the nails, the Bostich type looked just like my 16ga brads!

[Will Blick]

Peter, not sure I follow what you wrote, but I do want to know....

BTW, my Bostitch 15g only fires up to 2 7/8" IIRC, much shorter than I wanted... what is common for a framing nailer? 3.5"

[Peter Pedisich]

Will,

I agree that the 16 and 18ga are quite close in real world applications.

What I meant was that I was recently looking at getting a 15ga nailer, and almost got a Bostich, since I really like my Bostich 16ga, but I thought the Senco DA type nails looked more like nails, whereas the Bostich type 15ga looked just like 16ga but slightly thicker...slightly. So I got a nailer that takes DA type.

[Rich Engelhardt]

what is common for a framing nailer? 3.5"
3" or 3.5"
Air/compressor requirements are also greater.
The "pancakes" are going to work hard to keep up w/a framing nailer.

[Will Blick]

My 15g nails are DA style as well....what does DA stand for ? :-)

[Dave Zellers]

My 15g nails are DA style as well....what does DA stand for ? :-)

I'm going to assume 'D' head, Angled

[Matt Meiser]

So are the nails for the straight 16ga nailers interchangeable? Say Senco nails in PC gun? I've got a PC on the way and all the store I was at tonight had was Senco nails. Yet they carry the PC gun. The Senco's seem to fit but I didn't think they'd appreciate me firing up a compressor and opening a hose to try.

[Peter Pedisich]

Matt,

I have used all different brands of nails in my Bostitch 16ga straight gun without problems.
Bostitch, Porter Cable, Paslode, no name...
I have not used senco only because I never saw them in my local tool store.

Pete

[Rich Engelhardt]

So are the nails for the straight 16ga nailers interchangeable?
Pretty much yes - as long as you stick w/"name brands".
I've interchanged Senco, PC, Craftsman and Bostitch in my PC 16 w/out any problems.
I had a bad experience w/no names so I don't bother w/them anymore.

Disclaimer - My PC 16 is a couple/three years old & of the oiled flavor.
The newer oiless PC guns may be a whole different breed.

[Will Blick]

Ok Rich, continue to enlighten us.... :-)

I thought all nailers crave small amounts of oil? I use an accessory oil input connection to introduce oil into my nailers. I was told by an old pro, this will preserve the inner workings of the nailer....made sense, so I did it.

So the newer models now require no oil in their inners? Although some of my nailers are new, their vintage can easily date back a few years since the last design change....

I wonder what the motivation was to change the design to oiless? Prob because most people never oiled them anyway?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hi Will,
IIRC, it's all in the seals.
A lot of the newer guns, PC being one line, have gone to an oilless design.
As usual, always read the manual that comes with the tool to find out for sure whether to oil or not & what type of oil to use.
The gun that came with my little "mouse fart" Evolv compressor specify's to use a non air tool oil. They say air tool oil will attack the seals.

Back to oiless PC guns - IIRC from memory, the oiless guns are the "C" series. They came out about 18 or so months ago. Almost all of the PC "pancake/gun combo's" now have the oiless guns. I looked at one (16 ga oiless) last night at HD.
It's -different - than my oiled PC 16 ga.
Definately not as well "finished". It looks like it's geared towards a home owner.

Opps - need to add. Not all newer guns are oiless. Check before using to see if yours is or not. If it says "oil" by the air inlet, then oil it.

[Will Blick]

Thx Rich.... very interesting....

My guess is, the makers considered that most people forget to oil the guns anyway, so just like compressors, they adapted an oiless design. I am always under the assumption oiled parts have longer lifespans... but, I could be wrong. But a good heads up, need to check all my guns...

[Larry Edgerton]

I make a living at this stuff and have spoiled myself with tools but.....

If you were going to take all of my finish nailers away but one, I would keep my Senco SLP20's.