Help with furniture design.

[Jason Ryan]

Hello. I'm interested in building a dresser similar to picture that I've attached. I'm struggling with even basic design aspects of this pc and would love to find a book or plan set which would point me in the right direction.

I purchased a couple books one of which was "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Furniture and Cabinet Construction", but it did not go into great depths on furniture building. I've considered ordering this plan set (http://www.woodstore.net/dresser.html), but I'm afraid it will not address aspects which I don't understand such as building a separate base, utilizing side panels, undermount metal slides, etc. Any information or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Jerome Hanby]

I checked this book out of the local library then ordered my own copy from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561584223/ref=oss_product). It's Bill Hyltons book on Chest of Drawers. Lots of good info presented in the guise of various projects.

[Stephen Cherry]

Why not subscribe to Fine Woodworking's website, and read as many of the past articles as possible? I think that you could get a trial membership to see if you like it.

[Conrad Fiore]

Jason,
I like Illustrated Cabinetmaking by Bill Hylton. It illustrates and describes many ways to put together the different aspects of that case. The only thing you will have to figure out are the dimensions for that piece.

[Jason Ryan]

Jason,
I like Illustrated Cabinetmaking by Bill Hylton. It illustrates and describes many ways to put together the different aspects of that case. The only thing you will have to figure out are the dimensions for that piece.

So you think that book would be more appropriate than the "Chest of Drawers" book? After already dropping $30 on one cabinet making book, I'm a little gun shy about ending up with another so I'd just like to make sure :-).

[Jerome Hanby]

I didn't look up the other book, but you can get the chest of drawers book off of amazon for about $9.00 + $3.99 shipping.

I'd check your local library system for these books first. I like to own my reference material, but I hate to buy something that will never get a second look. Library has saved me from more than one bad purchase (as well as prompting several purchases I would have never have made without seeing the book first).

[michael case]

You want the Chest of Drawers book. Hylton's books are great. It really goes into the details of construction. I found it indispensable.

[Jason Ryan]

Thanks everyone, I pulled the trigger on the book.

[Jason Ryan]

Back again! i had the books for a couple weeks and am really enjoying them especially chests of drawers. I'm learning a lot going through them, but I still have a couple concerns that aren't addressed. I would enjoy anyone's input.

Referring to the chest in the original post.

1. Any advice on how to add the beading around the drawers? (and no, I can't afford the cool Kreg beading system :-))

2. Regarding the center molding. Would you suspect that this was a molding added after joining the two units, or should there be an entire new layer of plywood between the two carcases?

3. I'm considering using blum tandem undermount slides, and the chest of drawers book doesn't really address using them. Any references on how best to incorporate them into the design would be great.

Thanks!

[Steve Griffin]

Back again! i had the books for a couple weeks and am really enjoying them especially chests of drawers. I'm learning a lot going through them, but I still have a couple concerns that aren't addressed. I would enjoy anyone's input.

Referring to the chest in the original post.

1. Any advice on how to add the beading around the drawers? (and no, I can't afford the cool Kreg beading system :-))

2. Regarding the center molding. Would you suspect that this was a molding added after joining the two units, or should there be an entire new layer of plywood between the two carcases?

3. I'm considering using blum tandem undermount slides, and the chest of drawers book doesn't really address using them. Any references on how best to incorporate them into the design would be great.

Thanks!

Jasen,
There are many appoaches to your questions, but here's my ideas:

1) the bead molding can be produced on router table or shaper. you can get a 1/8" beading bit. I like to have a 1/8" bead with a 1/16" step. Depending on your tooling, you may wish to make this profile on a larger piece of wood which is easier to work with, and the as a final step table saw it to size. I'd miter the corners, and pin nail or brad nail to each face frame opening with a wiggle of glue. You can also apply it to the drawer faces, if you prefer that look.

2)I'd probably use dado blades to produce a groove maybe 1/8 or 1/4" deep to accept this molding in the side panels and face frame members. The carcass shouldn't need to be modified for it.

3) Blum tandems are an excellent choice for such a nice piece of furniture. I love combining modern stuff with old designs. In a nutshell, these are available in 3" increments (15,18,21 etc) and require an additional 1" space clearance behind the drawer boxes. Drawer boxes are 3/8" smaller than openings. You can look on their website for more specs. Good idea to order and have on hand while drawing up plans so you completely understand how to build drawer boxes.

Looks like a nice project. Hope you post some pic's of the final product.

-STeve

[Ted Wong]

Can you get your hands on a collection of Woodsmith Magazines? If you can track down back issues I'm almost positive you could find plans for that dresser as well as all the how-to tips and techniques to get it built.

[Lee Schierer]

Jason,
I like Illustrated Cabinetmaking by Bill Hylton. It illustrates and describes many ways to put together the different aspects of that case. The only thing you will have to figure out are the dimensions for that piece.

If the site where you found the photo gave over all dimensions for the piece, you can scale the dimension off the photo and use a ratio to determine each dimension on the piece. for example if they give the height as say 42" and you want to determine the size of the rails on the side panels. Print the photo as large as you can and still get decent sharpness. In my example I measure the height with my scale as 7.75" and the height of the rail measures .375" high. The needed dimension = .375 * 42 / 7.75 = 2.032 inches or 2"

Repeat this process for each needed dimension round off to the nearest 1/16". Since the photo is at an oblique angle, to get increased accuracy, use the corresponding given dimension for determining dimension in that direction. You can try this with a photo taken of an object you already own and will be amazed at how close the calculated dimensions work out to the original.

[Jason Ryan]

Thanks for the tips Steve. I had thought about using a small beading bit and making small trim type pcs to install around the drawer opening. I started reading about methods of directly beading the drawer frame which had me second guessing the approach.

I would love to find a plan set for this or any other two tiered dresser, but my searches have not yieled much in the way of results. Woodsmith has a plans site, but I didn't find anything resembling the pc that I'm looking for. It does seem that the search may be limited to full plan sets and may not include magazine articles.

Thanks

[Jason Ryan]

I had a few more questions/advice requests and sorry for queing up and stacking so many questions! :o


1. Would this dresser look oak if made out of red oak and stained a darker shade? This is my first major hardwood project and fear working with more expesive lumber such as mahogony.

2. The top rail appears to be wider than the dividers, would this be a wide board or would it be a regualr width board installed vertically?

3. In the center section with the moulding. Upon closer inspection of the side panels, it appears to be a full width board inserted between the top and bottom section, would you concur? If not and it is a moulding, would the top rail and panel bottom/top rails need to be custom made?

4. Would it be foolish to only use blum tandem on the bottom four heavy drawers and use traditional wood slides for the top five smaller drawers?


Thanks,
Jason

[Steve Griffin]

1) Nothing makes oak look more like oak than stain. It lodges in the grain and highlights the grain. Personally I like oak, especially white oak, and it would be a great choice for your piece.

2)I'd make all face frame members .75" thick. It looks like the mid rails are .75 or .875" wide with a 5/16" bead molding. The top rail is around 1.5", not counting the molding. But your guess is just as good as mine--my point is, to keep all the same thickness and just vary the widths.

3)Absolutely not. Besides not looking right with the end grain, you would have the problem of allowing for seasonal movement of the wood. My general rule of thumb is to never lock wood in accross the grain greater than 8".

Hope this helps Steve

[Jason Ryan]

Thanks! I will definately look at White Oak.


2)I'd make all face frame members .75" thick. It looks like the mid rails are .75 or .875" wide with a 5/16" bead molding. The top rail is around 1.5", not counting the molding. But your guess is just as good as mine--my point is, to keep all the same thickness and just vary the widths.

Gotchya on going with .75" face frame members. When you say vary the widths, do you mean that you think the ~1.5" top rail is a .75" board turned up on edge and is ~1.5" wide?


3)Absolutely not. Besides not looking right with the end grain, you would have the problem of allowing for seasonal movement of the wood. My general rule of thumb is to never lock wood in accross the grain greater than 8".

I'm throwing something together using sketchup to try and identify how this section may or may not be constructed. I'll post when complete.

[Jason Ryan]

I tried mocking the middle section up in sketchup, but it's getting too complicated :p... Maybe I can articulate my request for more detail.

In the picture the upper and lower sections have panels. The lower rail of the top section panel and the upper rail of the bottom section panel appear to be the same width ~3". Both the rail and stiles "appear" to my to end at the moulding. Do you think that the two rails sandwhiching the moulding are actually wider (maybe 3.375") and extend behind the moulding? Further do you think that the upper and lower stiles are connected? Wow, maybe the upper and lower section stiles are one peice? :confused:

[Jason Ryan]

The top rail is wider than the drawer dividers. I'm trying to understand if the top rail is a 3/4" board on edge or if it is a 1.5" board. I've attached a couple images if you could let me know which is most appropriate.

Thanks!

[Jason Ryan]

Spent some more time reading through my books... I feel foolish that I just found that the proper construction technique for my previous question was to create a lap joint for the verticle peice...

I am still struggling with how the top and bottom sections of drawers are put together. Everytime I look at the picture I see two separate dressers one atop the other. I'm just not understanding how they go together. I do see from the books that the moulding pc could be attached separately via rabbit or through keyed dovetails. I just don't understand the board behind the moulding.

[Jason Ryan]

Hello all. Well, I'm officially the owner of a large pile of lumber :D! I bought 300 bdft of air dried red oak the other day from a nice fella off of craigslist. I'm gonna turn it into something one way or another, but I really like to turn some of it into that nice dresser in my 1st post.

I just don't understand what would be the most practical method of building this dresser. Everytime I look at the picture the engineer in me says, that is two short dresser stacked on top of one another, but I'm sure that it's not. Please help me understand the underlying carcass.

I've put together a sketch of what I think it might be built. Please let me know your opinions.

Thanks!

[Jason Ryan]

Is there anyone out there???

I've added more detail added to the sketch, please let me know if this appears to be the correct approach. I'm also not sure how best to integrate blum tandems on the bottom 4 drawers. I'm thinking of using traditional slides on the top 5 drawers. Opinions please. Thanks.

[Jason Ryan]

My OCD won't allow me to quit updating this thread, or at least I hope it's OCD...:) At least I'm not responding to myself!!... Maybe that wouldn't be too bad a thing if my one of my other personalities was a master wood worker! :p

Anyway, I made some modifications and inserted some web frames. I'm planning on using loose tenon joinery. If anyone has any suggestions or comments on this design, I would appreciate the feedback.

[Paul Murphy]

I just don't understand the board behind the moulding.

Jason, sometimes it helps to look at it from a different perspective. You have a lower section of 2 side by side drawers, with the same configuration directly above. Above that you have 3 side by side drawers large enough to potentially hold a fairly heavy weight. Perhaps the designer made the tall divider section simply to add structural support for the 3 drawers above.

If you were to add those 3 drawers to the top of a 3/4" web frame divider, there would be deflection of the thin divider because it has no vertical support directly under the sides of all the inner drawer sides. My guess is the molding at the center wide divider is there to regain symmetry with the top of the case as well as the rest of the piece.

You can make the tall divider out of ~3/4" stock, or square section stock, it really depends on your preference and expected use.

[Jason Ryan]

Ahhh... That explanation helps a great deal. In all of the 9 drawer chest designs that I've reviewed, none had utilized such a method. Maybe this is because all of the designs had the 3 drawer section on the top.

Regarding the web frame that I've designed, would this be conducive to using blum tandem slides? Most of the examples that I have seen with tandems use plywood vertical separators with the slides screwed to the side.

Thanks!

[Paul Murphy]

I think you are on the right track with the web frames, they provide a basic structure for you to attach drawer slides, or a base for traditional drawers. Be sure to securely attach the top front center vertical divider to the top wide divider. That center divider will be in tension from the weight of the top 2 drawers.

Ok, you really have to read the instructions; there is no way around it.
http://www.blum.com/us/en/01/40/10/50/index.php (http://www.blum.com/us/en/01/40/10/50/index.php)

Cliff Notes:
-There are two “series”, the H for up to 5/8” drawer sides, and the F for up to 3/4" drawer sides.
-“Locking Devices” are usually sold separately, and you need a pair for each drawer. There are different part numbers for inset vs. overlay drawers. Inset drawers have the slides mounted further back in the opening.
-Build your drawer box to the dimensions in the chart, the box will be a specific dimension smaller than the width of the opening, and it depends on the drawer side thickness. Drawer box length must also be correct; hooks engage holes at the back.
-In general you are safe to select slide length 3” shorter than outside cabinet depth. Sometimes you can go 2” shorter, but if you use inset drawers you had better check your clearance.
-Review the drawing for screw hole location. You will have to have mounting points for all your slides. Usually face frame chests are easy, you just run a 2” tall strip of wood from stile to stile and thick enough to be flush at the face frame. Never glue/screw to the floating panels.

[Jason Ryan]

Excellent! Thanks for the feedback, it was exactly what I needed. I've spent a couple hours going over all of the blum documentation. Most of it makes perfect sense, but I am having trouble differentiating the construcion methods.

On the 2nd page of the installation packet, they call for either a "Frame cabinet application" or a "Panel cabinet application". I not sure which application applies to me.

It also appears that inset 4pc drawer construction methods will not work correctly. It seems that I'll need to switch to a 5pc drawer method.

I had planned to install cock beading around the drawer frames (not on the drawer). It seems that if I were to do so, I would also have to shim all of the slides to make them flush with the cock beading. I may not bead the frames if this will prove to be overly difficult.

[Paul Murphy]

"Frame cabinet application" means construction similar to face frame kitchen cabinets where the drawer opening width is smaller than the cabinet width, and side blocking must be used (or brackets) to mount the slides flush with the opening.

"Panel cabinet application" means construction similar to euro 32mm system kitchen cabinets that do not have any face frame, and slides need no blocking as they can mount directly to the cabinet sides.

"Drawer construction methods". Not that it matters, but my simplest drawers have a minimum of 5 parts...4 sides + a bottom ;). I think what you mean is you may have to use an applied front (6 piece) drawer.
The applied front will be much easier, but it is possible to build a traditional drawer box using undermount slides...you will have to build it to the full opening size, and trim it to fit (handplane type small increments). I would use the applied front unless you are comfortable with the task of building and fitting a traditional style drawer with an integral front larger than (lipped) the sides.

"Cock beading around the drawer frames". The sides of the frames are the easy part. Block out the sides after the cockbeading, and make the blocking flush to the cock beading. Where you have to be careful is the horizontal cock beading under the drawer. Make sure there is clearance under the slide for the slide to extend fully!

[Jason Ryan]

Thanks again for all of the feedback. I understand the differences between the two a little better now. Also I think I'll probable stick with making a drawer with a false front for now.

[Keith Hankins]

You don't mention what style you prefer in material to learn. Myself I prefer a visual that I can see vs. something just written. I would reccomend the DVD set Bases and Cases by Charlse Neil. He does wonderful videos and they are not little half-hour disks. His sets are al multi disc sets and he breaks things down to very basic items. I've bought a lot of his stuff (he has a 10 disc set on finishing that is fantastic. He has a weekly show on the internet (sorry you have to subscribe for a fee to get that0 but its worth it he goes though project from start to finish.

Here is a review: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1086

To buy it: http://shop.charlesneilwoodworking.com/Cases-Bases_p_14.html


He also has a great set on doors & drawers: http://shop.charlesneilwoodworking.com/Doors-Drawers_p_15.html

[Pat Barry]

I like Norm so I would try the New Yankee Workshop website - do a google search for yankee workshop. Then check out search by category and pick chests. There are several choices - videos are the way to go and you get the drawing to boot.

[Ted Wong]

Check out Woodsmith magazine. They have hundreds of back issues and I'm sure you could find one that has a similar design with step by step instructions for assembly.