As The Vortex Turns...

[Mike Cruz]

I can see the smiles and hear the I told you so's already...

Okay, so I'm coming to understand what ya'll have been talking about when you say that a particular lathe is a good starter lathe, or that you'll always want a bigger or better one. I've come to realize that the old Delta that I bought in the Spring is nice, but not really what I wanted. No way to have known that without experiencing it. Ya live and learn.

I'm not concerned that the lathe is underpowered. With 1 hp, it has done what I've asked of it. It turns small (4-6") bowls fine, and the spindle work I did was perfectly acceptable on it. But, there are some things that I don't love about it, and I'm going to start searching CL for an ungrade. Don't know what I do want yet, but I'd really like to know what NOT to get.

I got a little spoiled going over to Tony's, and getting to turn on his lathe with variable speed, digital read out, and very easy movement of the tool rest. Of course, that is WAY out of my budget. But, that doesn't mean that I can't find something in between.

My question is this: What should I stay away from? By that I mean, are there any specifice models within a manufacturers line that were duds? My understanding is that Powermatic makes a great lathe. But did they have any hickup years, or put out a model that just didn't fit the bill?

I have a feeling that I'm going to have to jump on a deal if it comes up. So, I probably won't have the time to post a "Is this a good lathe?" thread.

Among the things I don't like about my lathe is that the slowest speed is still a bit quick. Moving the tool rest requires a wrench (with multiple turns). Adjusting the tool rest up and down isn't as smooth as I'd like. Although all cast iron, it can move quite a bit with a bigger blank. Locking down the tail stock is a bi t laborious. There is nothing really wrong with the lathe, these are all functions of it being a 1947 lathe...

Thanks all, for your thoughts.

[John Keeton]

Mike, I know virtually nothing about the various models of lathes out there - save for the few I considered before getting the Delta 46-460. But, for those that do know, and might respond, what is the budget?

That might narrow down the responses so someone doesn't comment on the worst low end Grizzly lathes if those are outside the bottom of your budget.

Just trying to narrow it down for you!;):D

[Prashun Patel]

Mike, I'm a beginner, but am having the same epiphany you are.

I also have the Delta 46-460 but have not tried others.

Fantastic experience so far, but if I could do it again, I'd go bigger.

It don't mean a thing if you ain't got that swing.

[John Keeton]

Mike, I'm a beginner, but am having the same epiphany you are.

I also have the Delta 46-460 but have not tried others.

Fantastic experience so far, but if I could do it again, I'd go bigger.

It don't mean a thing if you ain't got that swing.Prashun has also mentioned a good point, along with price range. What do you hope to turn and does the swing make a difference for you?

For me, and for what I enjoy doing, the Delta gets the job done very well, but I also understand the desire for "bigger, better."

[George Morris]

I can only speak for my experiences, I started with a used jet 1442. This was a very good lathe,I replace the motor when it burnt out. The slowest speed was 450 and it was a reeves drive adjustment for speed.
I moved up to a powermatic 3520 great lath and the most reasonable of the better lathes. It has plenty of power the headstock slides and true variable speed.

If I ever bought another it would be a robust! Go with the most you can afford you won't be sorry!! Hope this helps.

George

[Bernie Weishapl]

I could see a Powermatic 3520B, Robust American Beauty, Oneway 2436, VicMarc long bed, etc, etc, etc. Those 4 would be my first choices and not in any specfic order.:D:rolleyes:

[Thom Sturgill]

Your price range is probably the MOST IMPORTANT data to advising you. If your budget will go $1500 then the new Grizzlys or talk to the ToolNut about a Jet 1642... If you can go higher (which I doubt since you said you were searching Craig's List) then look at the Powermatic. The sky's the limit if you have the funds.

For under $1000 I would look at the Delta - still only 1hp but 12" swing and VS. and the machine is well built and with the extension will handle long spindles. The Nova is well thought of though not VS and Woodcraft sells it for $900 although I understand that you will have to wait for delivery.

A new lathe is more likely to have the electronic VS that most turners love once they get a chance to turn on one, although you can find older lathes that have been retro-fitted and some with Reeve's drives that give mechanical VS - albeit with the maintenance issues that go with them. I have only been turning about 2 1/2 years, so I really can't speak to the issue of specific older lathes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

You look at these posts and it reminds you of a script from a bad Cheech and Chong movie!


"Yeah......man get the Yellow one......it's rad!"

"No man....get the mayo. It's that Canadian Snow....don't ya know?":eek::rolleyes::D

That's the Vortex Mike!

[Andrew Kertesz]

The Jet and Powermatic lathes will be on sale soon. As for the NOVA lathes, if that is your interest check your local Woodcraft for in-house inventory. They all knew about the impending sale and many pre-ordered stock to have on hand. The DVR is on sale for: $1699.00 which is $550 discount.

[Mike Cruz]

Okay, sorry about that. Yeah, I see why price range should have been mentioned. The reason I didn't was because I'm looking for the "deal". They do come around...you just have to be patient. If I said my budget for a Uni was $300, everyone (including me) would have laughed...but I got one...with the 52" Bies and mobile base and and and...you've all heard the story. That is why I didn't mention price range. I was hoping to to find out if there were duds to avoid.

To answer the question, though. I'm hoping to find something for $500. NO, NOT NEW...I know that. But, right after I got my Delta, I saw an ad for a Powermatic for $400 (used of course) on CL, not too far from me either. My budget wasn't $400-500 then, and I knew I would be kicking myself later...and now I am.

So, I'm waiting for that sweetheart of a deal to pop up again and didn't want to be stuck with the lemon of the fleet.

[Michael James]

You look at these posts and it reminds you of a script from a bad Cheech and Chong movie!!

Ken, Was there a Good Cheech n Chong movie?:cool:


Another vote for all you can afford. Im upgrading to the 46-480 only becasue of space constraints. I work in my garage and have to be mobile. My friends talked me out of cutting corners. Get the one you'll be happy with in 5yrs!
m .02

[David E Keller]

I don't know of any bad models or years for the PM or oneway lathes. Older grizzly models have gotten a bad rap, but I'm sure there are exceptions. I'd suggest continuing your current frustrations long enough to be able to afford what you really want... If you drop $500 on a compromise, I fear that you'll regret it.

Estate sales may be another place to pick up a decent lathe on the cheap... I've seen a few sweet deals locally.

[Joe Shinall]

Ken, Was there a Good Cheech n Chong movie?:cool:


Kinda what I was thinkin :rolleyes:

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Stay away from Chiwanese lathes with reeve drives, no matter the color or name on it or at any price above scrap metal prices.
But there are lathes that do have good quality reeve drives, like the canadian made General lathes, they last and work just fine, though more noisy than the EVS lathes.
Good luck, take care and have fun

[Tony De Masi]

Sorry Mike, mines not for sale:D

I will keep an eye out for you though.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Leo. That's kinda what I need to hear.

Tony, shucks, I thought you might want to trade me your lathe for some wood blanks. :D Thanks for the eye.

John, I forgot to respond to your swing question. Quite honestly, 14 would probably be enough, but I have a feeling that whatever size you get, that is juuuuust a little bigger than what is comfortable on that lathe. For example, my Delta is a 12", but unless the blank is perfectly balanced (good luck), the lathe can't handle it...it dances around like spaz.

As for saving up for what I really want, I would totally agree if I was going new, but since I'm looking at used, I might find a deal on a $1000-1500 lathe (30-50% of new :rolleyes:) for that $500.

Thanks for everyone's input!

[Jim Burr]

I hate to add more fuel to the fire, but if you save up a bit more (like I'm doing :o) take a good look at the Grizzley G0698 or Jet 1642. Big move up from my jet 1014, but an affordable upgrade that could easily be your last lathe.

[Roger Chandler]

I have the Grizzly G0698 18/47 and so far it has been very good.....performance and features rival the PM3520b, in my opinion.

[Karl Card]

I have two mini lathes, a jet 1014I and a Rikon 12x16 and I pretty much have gotten the thought that next year id like to have a stubby or something close to it. I can get length out of my two lathes but I so bad want to turn some 16 and 20 inch bowls.. We will just have to see how the money goes.

Good luck on your endeavors though and big does count but in this game quality means more than quanity to a certain point.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

A lot of folks overlook Serious lathes http://www.serioustoolworks.com/ and Vega lathes http://www.vegawoodworking.com/ ...one made in Illinois.

[Roger Chandler]

A lot of folks overlook Serious lathes http://www.serioustoolworks.com/ and Vega lathes http://www.vegawoodworking.com/ ...one made in Illinois.


Hi Ken,

We had a company rep from Serious [Mr. Trumbo] who came to our local club for a demo, and he stated the serious is actually manufactured in India, but that it is made to their strict specifications.........and likely the market here could not bear the price if they did manufacture it here in the USA.

He actually gave me my first piece of burl [redwood] and his talk was interesting and he showed some tools from his company as well.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Thanks Roger for the correction and I corrected my mistake. I thought at one time they were made in Orgeon. My mistake.

[Mike Cruz]

Anyone familiar with the Grizzly G1495? Just found one on CL.

[Jeff Nicol]

Mike, I looked around on the net and did not find many "Good" reviews for the lathe. But I have owned a few Grizzly tools and have always had good luck with them, but like Leo said most all the Reeves drive machines will give you troubles if they are not very well made. The cheap ones have aluminum or white metal cheap pulley systems and tend to get dirty and sticky more often than not, I say this from experience. That being said the old PM90's and other older lathes that have milled reeves systems work much better and have withstood the test of time in many high school shops for many years. Still most of them still have bolts to move the tailstock and tool rests, but any of them can be retrofited with a cam action clamping system if you want to take the time.

So my 2 cents are to try and find a really great deal on a PM3520 or a Jet1642 if you can. I have come across a few in my looking on CL and through other sales and auctions. You will still end up paying about $1000 or more even for a Jet, they just have not been around long enough to have any great used deals out there.

Make some things and pound the pavement and sell some turnings and save your pennies, it may be the only way, a prayer may help too!

Good luck,

Jeff

[John Keeton]

Mike, lots of good comments so far, but I think you are going to be quite limited on the $500 budget mark. When I was looking, there were no quality used lathes out there in that range that would not have required a substantial investment of extra cash to make them do what I wanted - electronic variable speed, reverse.

And, most of the older Deltas or PMs that I saw were 12" swing over the ways - even the ones with the cutout ways won't give you much more than that off the end of a chuck. You would have to use a faceplate for most wider bowls.

I would probably delay this purchase until more funds are available, and in the meantime keep looking so that you get an idea of what is out there.

Just my thoughts, but then, I am a happy camper with my little 12.5" Delta!:) That said, if I found a LARGE box of money hidden in my shop somewhere, an American Beauty would be my next lathe!!!!

[Mike Cruz]

Jeff, thanks for you efforts! I, too, have some Grizzly stuff and have been generally pleased with their tools. I know they have some bottom of the line things that probably wouldn't be what I want, but I also know that they do carry some better stuff that might fit my bill. The lathe in question isn't a bench top model, it is a $1000 plus machine. The seller has it for on for $550. But it was listed over a week ago. He may be willing to let it go for cheaper. Of course, if I had a bunch of "don't get it, I wasn't pleased" answers, I would certainly take the advice of my fellow Creekers. I usually don't pay toooooo much mind to reviews because I find them skewed one way or another. Either they are by people that love whatever that manufacturer makes, or someone that hates that manufacturer, or someone way more or way less experienced than myself. I prefer asking real people and getting real answers, like on this forum. That said, again, thanks for actually taking the time to look for reviews. That was certainly kind.

I also have no idea what a Reeves drive is. I'll have to do some research on that so I don't get caught with a cheap one. Thanks to you and Leo for the heads up on that!

John, yeah, I agree, lots of good advice. I do want to make it clear that not only am I not in a rush to jump out and get a new lathe today, I will certainly be patient and wait for my deal to come along; but also, the idea of saving up $1000 to get a lathe in the future is a bit unlikely. The reason is that with all my shop machinery, I haven't spent more than $450 on any one piece. Call me cheap, call me frugle, whatever...I just can't seem to justify it. My budget of around $500 is driven by my desire to have the best that I can get, and also my patience to lay in wait. I have a lathe that I can turn on. I can still get my fix...:D Oh, and I whole heartedly agree that it will take a monster gloat to get what I REALLY want for $500. I may either have to settle for something better than what I have but not what I truely want, or have to wait for a while.

My shop evolution included 2 planers, 2 tablesaws, 3 jointers, 2 dust collectors, and 2 band saws (well, I kept both band saws). Each time, I got the first one for a good price, cleaned it up, had my fun with it, and sold it. Then for a small upgrade price, got a bigger and better one. I'm hoping that the same will hold true for my lathe. From what I've seen on my CL, I should be able to get $350-400 for mine (we'll see) and with an extra couple hundred, I hope to get into something that I will enjoy more. Does it have to be my last lathe? Nope, but I'd like something the is, well, more suited to me.

Thanks, again for all the help and support.

[Thom Sturgill]

As a quick and dirty explanation of what a Reeves drive is - on a normal pulley system you change the ratio of the pulley diameters of the motor pulley drive pulley by moving the belt from one step to another. This allows a constant speed motor to be used to provide a range of speeds.

On a reeves drive the pulley wheel separates allowing the belt to run higher or lower, effectively changing the step in many many small increments, hence variable speed rather than stepped speeds. Since the pulley has to move on the shaft maintenance is required (regular cleaning and lubrication) and some are known to eat belts.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Thom. While I couldn't easily find a clear cut explanation doing an internet search, I kinda figured it out. But I still wasn't positive. Thanks for the explanation.

So, I've been warned to stay away from cheap Reeves drives. What manufacturers would you all consider the ones to stay away from? Is it a manufacuture wide thing, like stay away from all HF models, or is it a quality level thing, like stay away from the less expensive Jets, but the ones over $1500 will be better built?

On that note, would Grizzly's Reeves drive be considered one to avoid?

[Tom Godley]

When I was looking a few years ago an older PM with the R Drive was on the top of my list -- I had just taken a class using them and used one many years ago. I could not find one that was in decent shape for less than 1k -- and they all needed some additional work. Now the economy was better then but a lot of lathes were around a few years ago because many schools in my area were disposing of shop equipment. Last year my friend went looking -- same situation -- except now with the bad economy most came from metal shops and were in worse shape - and still went for about the same price. We both ended up buying new lathes.

[Mike Cruz]

Well, so far, that Grizzly 1495 for $500 is all I can find. Unless I can get even a better deal, I may just have to keep looking...

[Tony De Masi]

After all this time you spent looking this is all you can find? I'd just give up if I were you:rolleyes: