New DIYer needs help with SCMS choice

[Clint Morris]

New board member here. I'm trying to build my tool collection one project at a time and my first project is going to be installing some laminate flooring in my house. I am fairly new to this type of stuff but I'm looking forward to some of the home updates I would like to do. My tool collection is completely lacking though. I figured that a SCMS would work for the flooring project and the installation of new baseboards to add that updated look to the house. My budget for a saw is around $500 for a workhorse SCMS.

I had my eye on the Makita LS1016L at a local Home Depot for $499. I also found a Makita LS1214FL at another hardware store selling for the same price but I wasn't sure if it was a better saw or not. I understand that it is a 12" compared to the 1016's 10" but other than that, I have no idea what the differences are.

Just to make my choice a little harder, Lowe's has the Bosch 5312 for $599 but it comes with a free Bosch T4B stand that retails for $300. I also have a 10% Lowe's coupon. My google-fu is weak and I am unable to find any reviews on this saw. It is also lacking a laser like the Makita's. I'm not sure if I will end up using it extensively but it certainly doesn't hurt to have it. This deal comes with a well reviewed stand too. Again, doesn't help my decision making process.

With that said, do any of you guys have some input you wouldn't mind sharing with a woodworking greenhorn? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[greg a bender]

Hi and welcome to the creek!

I just bought a Makita LS1016L, and am thrilled to death with it! Very accurate and great cutting capacity. Much better than the older Makita 10" or 12", CSMS from what I understand.

This saw just may force me to get rid of my 1960's CMan RAS.
Yeah, 12" crosscut at 90 and 6 5/8 crown cuts, for $499.00? Hard to beat, IMHO.

Greg

[Don Morris]

With a last name of Morris you can't be all bad. Do a search of SCMS as I recall there have been several reviews and requests for feedback recently. Lots of ideas and strong opinions about the various brands, size (10" or 12") etc. I have a Hitachi 10" and have been very happy with mine. But my take has always been to go to the big BORGs with a machinist square and try them all. See how the blade lines up at 90 degrees with the machinist square, handle position (vertical, horizontal although for comfort many can be changed). Wiggle them at the full pull out position to see how stable they are. You'll find advocates for just about every brand on the market. There's a new Bosch if you're willing to spend a little more $$$ that may challenge the Festool and not be as expensive. No matter what brand!!! The blade makes almost as much difference as the brand. Most brands don't put a top quality blade in their saws, and a Table Saw blade isn't the best blade to use in a SCMS. When I put a Forest Chopmaster in my Hitachi I improved the cut. It's still a Chop saw. For my most critical cuts, I still use a sled on my TS.

[Will Overton]

I have had the 5312 for a little over 5 years. It comes with a crappy blade, but once I swapped it for a Forrest ChopMaster it became a great saw.

That said, the only advantage to the 12" saw is cutting thicker wood. There is very little advantage in board width. The 12" saw needs a lot of room behind it. I have mine on a Ridgid MSUV so it folds up out of the way when not in use.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/Bill_de/scms---bs--jointer-1.jpg

Unless you plan on cutting a lot of thick lumber I would recommend the 10 in version of this saw, if buying today.

Of course I haven't seen the new Bosch saw which is a totally different concept to do the same job. It might be worth a look.

[Clint Morris]

Thanks guys for the advice. Is there any reason to not pull the trigger on the Bosch 5312 deal with the free Bosch T4B stand for $600? I have searched high and low for reviews on this saw and there's just not a lot out there (either on this site or elsewhere). The Makita LS1016L is a fairly well received saw and it will probably be more than enough saw for me. I would still have to purchase a stand which is going to push the price above the Bosch deal.

[Matt Day]

Reconditioned Sales has the 12" Hitachi for $350 shippped. I'm on the fence about placing an order... but another option for ya.

[Neal Clayton]

Thanks guys for the advice. Is there any reason to not pull the trigger on the Bosch 5312 deal with the free Bosch T4B stand for $600? I have searched high and low for reviews on this saw and there's just not a lot out there (either on this site or elsewhere). The Makita LS1016L is a fairly well received saw and it will probably be more than enough saw for me. I would still have to purchase a stand which is going to push the price above the Bosch deal.

if you have a miter saw, add two 2 dollar 2x4s, mix in a little simple math, a few bolts, some deck screws, season to taste, and could wind up with a stand ;).

fwiw i have the 10" bosch, no complaints. been a pretty good saw for a couple of years now.

[Don Morris]

And if you're new to DIYing you'll be happy with your own made stand for lots less $$$!

[Will Overton]

And if you're new to DIYing you'll be happy with your own made stand for lots less $$$!

OP said "... Bosch 5312 deal with the free Bosch T4B stand ..."

What's less dollars than free?

OP - you'll be happy with the saw on a portable stand. Dust collection is nonexistent unless you build it yourself. Get a good blade.

[Clint Morris]

fwiw i have the 10" bosch, no complaints. been a pretty good saw for a couple of years now.

Just wanted to make sure that I wasn't making a bad decision going with the Bosch instead of the Makita LS1016L. The Bosch is also lacking the laser that the Makita has. Is that something that I'm going to miss or is it one of those accessories that is rarely used?

[Chris Tsutsui]

I see the Hitachi 12" SCMS at Costco for $399. I'd probably go this route if I didn't want to get something better.

What appeals to me right now is the Bosch Axial Glide Miter Saw.

If you wait till late november, the Borgs always have deals on saws.

A couple black fridays ago I got the Ridgid MSUV for $100 minus 10% coupon.

[Greg Portland]

Why do you feel that you need a slider versus a regular compound miter saw? A 12" CMS will cut 8" @ 90&deg and 6" at 45&deg. This should be plenty for flooring & base moulding.

[Clint Morris]

Why do you feel that you need a slider versus a regular compound miter saw? A 12" CMS will cut 8" @ 90&deg and 6" at 45&deg. This should be plenty for flooring & base moulding.

I have never installed flooring but in my search for online tutorials, the installers used and recommended a sliding CMS to cut the laminate flooring and new baseboards. I also wanted to get a saw that I could use for years to come with other projects so I thought the SCMS would be a better buy. I'm really new to this so I wasn't quite sure which direction to go. I wanted to mount the saw on a rolling cart since I don't have a dedicated workshop. I had a couple of miter stands in mind from reading reviews but picking out a good saw was the hard part.

[Charlie Stone]

Clint,
Really, what you need is dependent on how you are going to use it. Also, in my opinion, there are other tools which will need your money far more than this.
I had a nice dewalt, which was loaned to a friend of the family who managed to leave it in a garage with the door open and that was the end of my nice saw. At the time I didn't have much money for a replacement and went with a $100 saw from Harbor Freight. Which, for what I use it for does an excellent job. The only problem I have with the HF saw is that I need to check the angles prior to cutting. Since I typically either use it for 90 or 45 miters, this isn't really a big deal, and I am sure I could adjust it properly if I took the time.
If you really want a laser guide, and most who have them I hear don't use them, then you can also pickup aftermarket attachments to do the job. Personally, I just lower the saw and verify it against my scribe line.
My dollars would be much better served in getting a good plane and shooting board to clean up the last 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch from a "close enough" cut to end up at perfect.

[Jerome Hanby]

If you have the room and actually need the sliding part, I'd look for a good deal on an old Dewalt RAS and buy a decent non slider to chop and cut miters.

I was able to use a Miter Saw for some of the cuts when I installed laminate flooring, but I ended up using the table saw to rip the pieces that fit against opposite walls (assuming that you want things to look even on both sides and your room isn't miraculously just the right width for the flooring widths to come out even). So if you can only have one powered saw for this project, I'd say get a decent contractors table saw.

[Chris Padilla]

I saw an ad recently in one of the ww'ing rags. I swore it was either Makita or Bosch but someone had a slider with a folding/scissor-like arm that would allow one to put a slider closeR to a wall than a traditional slider. I thought that was pretty cool.

[Jeff Bartley]

Clint,
I've never used the Bosch but the Makitas are nice, smooth saws. I have a 12" Dewalt slider--I prefer the miter locking mechanism on the Dewalts. Lasers are worthless; I've yet to meet someone on the job that actually uses one---they're too thick to be accurate. And as for accuracy; whatever saw you chose you should square it up and check the 45 degree indents (miter and bevel). They're rarely spot-on
I also use one of the dewalt stands which I love. It's easy to fold up and the extendable arms and stops make repeatable cuts quick. I made a table for mine using an extra pair of saw brackets and then mounted a router base under it for a simple router table.
But if I never planned to move the saw I'd just make something simple with 2x stock and bolts.
Oh, and you'll have to replace the blade for sure...the blades made specifically for sliders do work better.
Hope this helps,
Jeff

[Neal Clayton]

Just wanted to make sure that I wasn't making a bad decision going with the Bosch instead of the Makita LS1016L. The Bosch is also lacking the laser that the Makita has. Is that something that I'm going to miss or is it one of those accessories that is rarely used?

the laser is nice. it's easier to line up oddball angles on a pencil mark with it. i have the older bosch model (4410) and it came with the laser. there are aftermarket ones if you want one though, bosch even sells one.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&q=bosch+laser+miter+saw+guide&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=6233706017627329524&ei=neHBTJGOFMaAlAfM9pSmCg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDQQ8wIwAg#

the laser is just a replacement for the blade collar. so if you want it, buy it separately. put it on the right or the left of the blade, whichever you prefer, replacing the existing collar. there's nothing to them really, they're just centrifugal switches. blade spins, laser lights up, blade stops, laser goes off.

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/power-tools/bosch-glide-miter-saw-review

The Glide by Bosch...that is the new compact SCMS I saw. Looks pretty trick.

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=GCM12SD

[David Thompson 27577]

............ The Bosch is also lacking the laser that the Makita has. Is that something that I'm going to miss or is it one of those accessories that is rarely used?

For the vast majority of cuts, a laser is worthless. Think about it for a minute -- with a miter saw, you can make your mark, then you can literally set the sawblade down on the workpiece to line up the blade with the mark.

And doing that is WAY more accurate than trying to align the mark with a (at least somewhat) blurry laser line.

But, I said 'the vast majority'. If when you made your pencil mark, that marking included an angle based on "direct marking" -- you somehow marked the angle that you needed, based on how it needs to fit. And when you go to the saw, you don't yet know what number of degrees that angle is.

In those cases (quite rare, assuming you have a protractor), shining a laser on the angled pencil mark will help you align the saw.


For what it's worth, I have the Hitachi 10" slider, without the laser. It was dead-on accurate fresh out of the box. It's been tossed in the back of my pickup hundreds of times over the past 8 years. And I still like it very much.

[Gene Howe]

My laser is useless in the sunlight. Got used to aligning the blade to my mark on my old chop saw, so I still do that on the new SCMS. I'd love a stand, though.
It can't be mentioned enough....get a god blade designed for a miter saw! For laminate flooring though, you might want to find some blades (note the plural) of lesser quality as you will dull them quickly.

[Will Overton]

My saw came with a laser and an extra set of batteries. The original batteries died about 3 years ago. One of these days I may just get around to installing that second set. :)