Jointer rattles on shut down.

[Dave Zellers]

New G0490.

After hitting the stop button, it winds down and then makes a loud rattle before it stops.
The pulleys are both tight so it's not that.
Removing the front panel and the fan housing and observing the shut down shows that it is happening right after the RPM's reach the point where the switch on the motor disengages.

This doesn't seem right. Is anyone else getting this?

[glenn bradley]

Belt slap. Common on the single v-belt version of this jointer regardless of badge. There is a serpentine belt upgrade available form Grizzly. My G0490X came before the upgrade was available so I used a fix that many before me had shared; link belt and some extra clearance at the through hole/belt guard. You can see my version of it here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=88752&d=1211053935

Note the extra nut and washers between the base and the belt guard to elevate it. The link belt does sit a bit higher in the pulley than the v-belt so (with Grizzly's blessing) I use an angle grinder to remove about 1/32" of material from the arch under the carriage that provides clearance for the belt path.

P.s. if you have this belt/pulley setup, you may also have the open top dust chute. This should be closed off to give better DC at the cutterhead. More info on mine here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=84153&highlight=G0490X&page=2

[Dave Zellers]

I just bought this last month. It has the serpentine belt. It sounds like it is coming from inside the motor on the pulley end to me.

[glenn bradley]

Ah, please disregard all that useless info I posted. I would take the belt off and power up and down to confirm that the sound is not the motor, If it is the motor (or if it isn't) I would open a case with Grizzly tech support to make them aware. If it is belt slap with the newer belt style I will hope that some of the several folks who have that configuration will chime in.

P.s. I am wondering if you are hearing the centrifugal switch kick out. Are we talking about a noise just before the last 5 to 10 revolutions of the motor? My DC had a quirky cent-switch. Griz sent me a replacement but, while I was waiting I took off the original, flattened/smoothed the contacting surface of the resting plate area with some 600 grit stuck to a piece of glass. Shut it right up. It still clicks as it changes position but, it doesn't stutter into position or squeak the last few turns anymore.

[Dave Zellers]

Oh man, I should have thought to test it with the belt off myself.

OK- it IS a lot quieter but I can still hear the rattle very faintly right at the end. The centrifugal switch seems ok to me. With the fan housing off, I can see when it kicks off and the the rattle follows that right before it stops.

I don't know- maybe it's normal.

[Grant Larouere]

My new Grizz jointer was rattling and it turned out to be the sheet metal safety cover that went over the area where the belt comes up through the base. The solution ended up being to move the cover about 1/8" away from the jointer. Too small of a gap to fit a finger in, but large enough to keep from banging against the casting when it was turned on/off.

[Dave Zellers]

My new Grizz jointer was rattling and it turned out to be the sheet metal safety cover that went over the area where the belt comes up through the base. The solution ended up being to move the cover about 1/8" away from the jointer. Too small of a gap to fit a finger in, but large enough to keep from banging against the casting when it was turned on/off.

Thanks for the thought but my belt cover isn't even on. When I was tuning things up after assembly, I forgot to put it back on and still haven't. But there is no question that the belt is a factor here. When the rattle happens, the belt wobbles wildly for a second. But the wobble is not the cause, it is an effect. I have held a stick against the belt with some pressure as I turn off the jointer and it has no effect. The rattle is coming from inside the motor it seems.

At this point the only ideas I have are, do I have the belt too tight, and are the bearings bad? The belt can be pushed in a half inch with moderate pressure and the jointer seems to cut OK when it's on so I'm doubting either of those theories.

I'm stumped. It just seems to me like it should just power down gently and stop rather than loudly rattle to a stop.

[Chip Lindley]

...there is no question that the belt is a factor here. When the rattle happens, the belt wobbles wildly for a second. But the wobble is not the cause, it is an effect. I have held a stick against the belt with some pressure as I turn off the jointer and it has no effect. The rattle is coming from inside the motor it seems.

At this point the only ideas I have are, do I have the belt too tight, and are the bearings bad? The belt can be pushed in a half inch with moderate pressure and the jointer seems to cut OK when it's on so I'm doubting either of those theories.

I'm stumped. It just seems to me like it should just power down gently and stop rather than loudly rattle to a stop.

Dave, tighten that belt MORE! The belt is not nearly as tight as you may think. See if that does not make a big difference.Serpantine belts can stand mucho tensioning.

Before you tighten the belt, check the motor pulley to be sure it is not loose and wobbling on shut-down. The last thing you need is a motor shaft eaten alive by a loose pulley.

Bad bearings on a new jointer? Verrry doubtful!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dave,

I just got a G0490X a few weeks ago. After reading a lot of posts here about the G0490/G0490X I decided to do something.

I removed the belt and found the set screw loose on pulley of the cutterhead, the pulley on the motor and while I was at it, I pulled the cover on the motor at the end where the centrifugal switch is. I marked the position of the switch with respect to the end of the shaft. I removed the screw holding the switch to the shaft and reinstalled it after cleaning it and applying some blue loc-tite. I also removed the set screws from the two previously mentioned pulleys...cleaned and applied loc-tite to the set screws and reinstalled them. I found the screws loose on both pulleys and decided to do the same treatment to the centrifugal switch as a preventative measure.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I have had similar issues...pulley set screws loose (almost worked out!) and that loud rattle/banging on shut down. I used the blue loctite and reseated. I also had some real issues getting the motor and cutter-head pulleys co-planer. I went through two belts and several hours with customer service on this. So, I am fairly certain that the tension is now correct.

I am not sure I have the stomach for taking those panels off...again. Is there any issue beyond the noise itself? Is this a warning of some imminent breakdown? A reason I should stop believing its just normal for this machine?

The jointer, when not taken apart, has done a pretty nice job. But, it has been a lot of work getting to and staying in this state. Especially for what seems to me to be a fairly simply mechanical design.

Getting the fence dead square to the table has given me a few fits...but that is another thread.

[Mike Goetzke]

My fairly new G0490 has these symptons too but I don't think they are as severe as yours. If I get some free time I was thinking of mounting the motor to a plate and then bolt it to the bars - this structure seems very similar to the whimpy HF BS I once had. Stiffening up the motor mount on the HF made a world of difference.

I have a question about running vibration. I put a Byrd head on my machine when it was new. The machine vibrates quite a bit more than my two previous 6" jointers did. For example, I know this isn't scientific but I use to be able to store the push pads on top of the starter switch on my previous jointers - on the Grizzly they fall to the floor within seconds. How is the vibration while running with the bladed head?

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I have some vibration when running...my push pads will dance too. But, if I put my hand on the end of the in-feed table it dampens out. Just the hand pressure of feeding some 4/4 4" wide stock will dampen it out to point of not being noticeable...I am surprised the Byrd head doesn't run quieter and smoother.

I have always assumed that the vibration I get when under power (but not under load) is due to my concrete shop floor combined with the particular wheels Grizzly uses in this machines mobility package. I have been meaning to put some high density rubber pads under the corners.

I think Mike is onto something in that the motor mounts are not especially robust. In fact I think that in some other threads about this tool their has been some comment about the 3hp motor being a bit larger than the comparable DJ-20 (design the G0490 is based upon). Personally I am not a fan of the side motor mounts with the weight of the 3hp motor for reasons other that the vibration. The weight alone...not too mention the belt tension...seems to cause the mounting struts to flex. Mounting the motor on a horizontal plate suspended below the cabinet ceiling...so that it could be adjusted/leveled/tensioned at the corners with threaded bolts makes more sense to me. But what do I know...I am no machinist.

[Mike Goetzke]

I have some vibration when running...my push pads will dance too. But, if I put my hand on the end of the in-feed table it dampens out. Just the hand pressure of feeding some 4/4 4" wide stock will dampen it out to point of not being noticeable...I am surprised the Byrd head doesn't run quieter and smoother. Byrd head on this machine runs much quieter than my bladed 6" jointers did. The jointer actually gets quieter when loaded.

I have always assumed that the vibration I get when under power (but not under load) is due to my concrete shop floor combined with the particular wheels Grizzly uses in this machines mobility package. I have been meaning to put some high density rubber pads under the corners.Good idea - I'll have to look into this.

I think Mike is onto something in that the motor mounts are not especially robust. In fact I think that in some other threads about this tool their has been some comment about the 3hp motor being a bit larger than the comparable DJ-20 (design the G0490 is based upon). Personally I am not a fan of the side motor mounts with the weight of the 3hp motor for reasons other that the vibration. The weight alone...not too mention the belt tension...seems to cause the mounting struts to flex. Mounting the motor on a horizontal plate suspended below the cabinet ceiling...so that it could be adjusted/leveled/tensioned at the corners with threaded bolts makes more sense to me. But what do I know...I am no machinist.

Here is what I did to the HF BS. I tapped holes in a plate. This reduced vibration and made belt tensioning easier:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/My%20Tools/HF%20BS/th_100_0009.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/My%20Tools/HF%20BS/?action=view&current=100_0009.jpg)

[Dave Zellers]

Well, I tightened up the belt (I almost think it's too tight now) but it didn't have much effect. I guess it is belt slap but I can't stop it. Kinda seems like a spring tensioned third pulley pushing on the middle would help dampen it. I cringe every time I hear that noise.

Re vibration, I have the 8" knives and zero vibration. Storing the push blocks on top of the switch is no problem.

[Tom Esh]

Well, I tightened up the belt (I almost think it's too tight now) but it didn't have much effect. I guess it is belt slap but I can't stop it. Kinda seems like a spring tensioned third pulley pushing on the middle would help dampen it. I cringe every time I hear that noise.


I wouldn't overtighten and risk bearing wear just to get rid of a noise. As long as they stay on, run smooth, and don't slip I don't care if they slap themselves silly.
One other thing you might check is the fan impeller to make sure it's not loose on the shaft. Not sure how they're attached in the Griz motors, but I had one on a DP that was spline fit. At first it was just a startup noise, then it became noticeable at shutdown too. Eventually it started rattling all the time, at which point I had to expoxy the dang thing to the shaft.

[Dave Zellers]

I wouldn't overtighten and risk bearing wear just to get rid of a noise.
Yeah, good point. Plus I'm now getting a faint burning rubber smell. It's too tight. Oh good. Now I get to pull it out and remove both panels yet AGAIN!:mad:

One other thing you might check is the fan impeller to make sure it's not loose on the shaft. Not sure how they're attached in the Griz motors, but I had one on a DP that was spline fit. At first it was just a startup noise, then it became noticeable at shutdown too. Eventually it started rattling all the time, at which point I had to expoxy the dang thing to the shaft.

The fan seems to be plastic and just a friction fit with a screw but it's tight.

I guess just accepting the slap is the solution.

[michael case]

Dave,

I've had the G0490 for about a year. Heck, I don't why it rumbles on shut down. I carefully aligned the motor and belt, tightened everything and its still there. I still have yet to try a good quality belt. The belt that comes with the machine is not top shelf and has a lot twist. This causes a fair amount of needless vibration. The machine works fine nonetheless. But it does seem to hit a certain resonance on shut down. Until I saw your post I had forgotten the issue since I honestly don't even hear it anymore. I guess its sort of like living next a waterfall. So far, the only thing I can tell you is to absolutely get yourself some Lock Tight and apply it to the pulley set screws and the top pulley screw.

[Chip Lindley]

I'm now getting a faint burning rubber smell. It's too tight. Oh good. Now I get to pull it out and remove both panels yet AGAIN!:mad:

I guess just accepting the slap is the solution.

Ok Ok, Too Tight now! You could try a quality serpentine belt from an auto supply store. Too bad you don't have regular pulleys. A Fenner PowerTwist belt would probably work wonders.

And the flexing of the motor mount bracket could well be a contributing factor. One way Grizzly reaches their price point; using thinner sheet metal for stampings.

[Dave Zellers]

Ok Ok, Too Tight now!

:) Yeah- I backed it off today. It slaps itself silly on every shutdown so I guess I'll just think of the worst business experience of my career every time I turn off my jointer. Pretty soon, it will be fun- 'Take that, you jack wagon! Maybe you should have listened to me!'

The jointer cuts well, but my pursuit of perfection continues.

[glenn bradley]

I may have missed it but, what was Grizzly's recommendation on this?

[Dave Zellers]

I may have missed it but, what was Grizzly's recommendation on this?

Given that the replies here showed that this issue was common to this machine, I didn't bother to contact Grizzly.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Given that the replies here showed that this issue was common to this machine, I didn't bother to contact Grizzly.


Should do that - could be an easy remedy.

Sometimes people tighten the set screw on the pulley, not knowing that there are two set screws in there and no matter how hard you tighten the outer one, it does not affect the inner one. May want to check that.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

Wouldn't you know it...after using the jointer three days last week...I went to fire it up this afternoon and the noise was especially rattle-ly. A little peek at the top of the cutter-head pulley revealed two ribs worth of belt were walking off. I shut it down, unplugged it, and did the all-too-familiar job of removing the back panel. The belt was fully seated on the motor pulley and both pulleys seemed tight without any missing set screws. BUT, then I noticed that the motor pulley...while still tightly seated to the shaft and all set screws in place was about 1/4" off the end of the motor shaft!! The key in place, but also working 1/4" out of the shaft??

I'll call Grizzly in the am. This blows...I am losing prime Sunday shop-time...again.

[Dave Zellers]

I'll call Grizzly in the am. This blows...I am losing prime Sunday shop-time...again.

I'll be very interested in hearing if they have anything constructive to say outside of 'blue locktight'.