Safely heating the shop??

[Dan Cannon]

My turning "shop" is in my garage, this being the first year I'm trying it. I'm enjoying it so much that giving it up for the winter is not an option, but the weather up here will eventually keep me from working out there without a heat source. My dad gave me one of those forced air kerosene torpedo type heaters. It has plenty of power to keep it relatively warm in there, but it occured to me that there is somewhat of an open flame in the heater (with the red hot metal cap at the end). Since I don't yet have a dust collection system, am I creating a hazzard with this type of heater? Keep in mind, it never gets REALLY dusty, and the heater would be a good distance away from the lathe. Can I use this heater, or do you all have different suggestions?

Thanks,
Dan

[Aaron Wingert]

Dan you shouldn't use a bullet type fuel-burning heater in an enclosed space such as your garage. Ignition concerns aside, carbon monoxide is a very, very, very real danger with those. You won't know it until it is too late.

You'd be better off installing a wall-mounted unit heater (LP or natural gas), which is safely vented to the outdoors or otherwise designed to operate safely in a shop.

[David Hostetler]

Or use one of those electric oil filled radiators. I have one. A word of warning though. They suck up a LOT of juice...

[George Guadiane]

Or use one of those electric oil filled radiators. I have one. A word of warning though. They suck up a LOT of juice...
That was going to be my suggestion - I use one, just brought it out today.

I keep mine under the lathe at night, at a low(ish) level... The heat warms the lathe which makes it more comfortable to turn. I think this method allows the lathe to radiate some of the heat over a longer period... Worked for me for a few years now. It IS a bit expensive, but not turning isn't an option for me.

[Aaron Wingert]

When my shop was in my (cold) garage before I moved it to the basement, I used two electric space heaters to make being out there somewhat tolerable. I'd turn them on an hour or so before going to the shop, which helped. Not great, but better than turning with frozen fingers.

[Brian Brown]

+1 on the carbon monoxide thought. I use a Propane bullet style heater, and the problem is the same. My shop leaks air like crazy, the wind blows continously in the winter, and I use a CO detector when the heater is on. So far no problem, but Im still not sure it is the best idea... Thinking about one of those electric infrared radient type heaters. Anyone ever use one of them? How costly are they to operate?

[Steve Goetz]

Dan,

Not sure if you have access to natural gas or not, but you could install a vent free gas unit that would heat a two car garage in no time. A friend of mine installed one last winter and he loves it.

Good Luck,

Steve

[Don Jarvie]

A bunch of us use the Dayton electric heater and it works great. You need a 10g run and a double 30a breaker since it runs on 220 - hardwired.

I havn't really noticed a real increase in the electric bill and I'm in the shop around 12 hrs per week.

The key is to insulate the garage. If not the heater will still work but won't hold the heat that well.

[Bob Riefer]

I have the same heater that Don mentions and wired as he notes, although I bought the Farenheat version (depending on the day, you can save $50 by buying one or the other). I have two attached spaces that are each 12x18 (so a total of about 24 x 18) and last year WITHOUT insulation I could get both sides to 60 degrees pretty nicely in the dead of a PA winter. Runs quietly, pushes a ton of air, and my electric bill did not take much of a hit. With insulation... I'll let you know in a few weeks when I'm finished insulating. :)

[Gene Howe]

Dan you shouldn't use a bullet type fuel-burning heater in an enclosed space such as your garage. Ignition concerns aside, carbon monoxide is a very, very, very real danger with those. You won't know it until it is too late.

+1000!!!!:eek::eek:

You'd be better off installing a wall-mounted unit heater (LP or natural gas), which is safely vented to the outdoors or otherwise designed to operate safely in a shop.

My shop is a well insulated 800 sq.ft. with 10' ceilings , and a Procomm unit keeps it toasty.

[Randy Davidson]

Another vote on the Dayton. I have used it for 2 years and it maintains 60 degrees on the coldest days. I use a smaller double garage.

[Rod Sheridan]

The issue of carbon monoxide has already been covered so I'll mention the issue of water vapour from the un-vented exhaust.

That's going to be a building and equipment problem due to water condensation.

You need to use a vented fuel burning heater, or go electric.

regards, Rod.

P.S. I have a 5Kw heater in my single car insulated garage.
After running it for an hour, the garage is warm, even in Canadian winters....

[Jerome Stanek]

Here in Ohio in the winter there is not much moisture in the air to begin with. There is more in the summer even if you use an unvented heater.

[Tom Rick]

I have the same heater that Don mentions and wired as he notes, although I bought the Farenheat version (depending on the day, you can save $50 by buying one or the other). I have two attached spaces that are each 12x18 (so a total of about 24 x 18) and last year WITHOUT insulation I could get both sides to 60 degrees pretty nicely in the dead of a PA winter. Runs quietly, pushes a ton of air, and my electric bill did not take much of a hit. With insulation... I'll let you know in a few weeks when I'm finished insulating. :)

Which model Dayton are you guys using?

The D-f79?

http://www.heater-home.com/product/D-F79.aspx

My shop is a freestanding 20x24 well insulated building. I am looking to get something that can be left unattended to keep the machines from going into deep freeze. Maybe keep ~50 degrees in shop when away. I don't need a sauna but will ramp up temps when I am working in shop.

[Bob Riefer]

Here's the model I purchased (Dayton G73 = Farenheat FUH54) - current cost around $250 is similar to what I paid a year ago. As mentioned, this is an electric heater with a fan that pushes a lot of air around the room. Again, I'm comfortably heating a 24 x 18 space with about an R19 wall insulation, a few energy efficient windows, an overhead insulated garage door, and NO ceiling insulation (2nd story of barn acts as an air barrier I like to tell myself). This is in PA where winter temps are generally in the 25-35 degree F range.

It's the size of a small microwave oven, but it CRANKS. Honestly, I was skeptical when I opened the box because it was smaller than I pictured. This year with the shop nicely insulated, I am going to test leaving it on the lowest of the ten settings (or you can buy a thermostat separately) in an attempt to keep the shop constantly around 45 degrees or so. Then it'll be easier to bring the room up to temp when I'm in there.

http://www.amazon.com/Fahrenheat-Marley-Suspended-Electric-Heater/dp/B001H9K8QE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1287754614&sr=8-2


That said... if money was no option, I would have done radiant in the slab, and then layered this on top of it. If you don't have to heat the objects in the room (and the room itself) you're way ahead (and especially so if you have robust dust collection venting your warm air outside as I plan to do).

edit: at a cost of $250 and some wiring and a breaker, and given the energy efficiency of the unit and ease of installation, I'd use this same item over and over.. hell, I'd install two of them if needed before I spent major money on any more complicated solution.

[Tom Rick]

Thanks

I will look into the Dayton.
Anyone have target BTU's for shop footage?

I am around 450 square feet.

Thanks all

[Bob Riefer]

Here, this link has more reviews that might be helpful to your situation:
http://www.amazon.com/Fahrenheat-Ceiling-Mount-Automatic-Electric-Heater/dp/B0000AXEZV/ref=pd_cp_hi_1



I'm not a HVAC pro so take my advice with a grain of salt... But, I really got to the analysis paralysis point when I was doing my heating. btu calcs, air loss at windows/doors, R-values... yikes! Then, I realized that I honestly prefer about 60 degrees for a working temp. This is a shop, not a living room. So I dropped $250 and wired up. No pricing heart burn, no health concerns, no monthly bill spikes.. Nice comfy area to work in. I can only imagine how it will be with insulation this year.

Ok, I'm shutting up now :D

[Tom Rick]

I really got to the analysis paralysis point when I was doing my heating. btu calcs, air loss at windows/doors, R-values... yikes!

My kind of man- did you come up with a way to accurately model the dog going in an out of the shop door?
:D

You have a web site for Dayton by chance Bob?
There seems to be a bunch of these heaters from Dayton and I would like a simple comparison page to sort it all out...

Thanks

[Bob Riefer]

ha ha, I definitely should have calculated wife, son, daughter, dog in and outs!

I found this website useful when I was researching:

http://www.heater-home.com/dayton-info.aspx

[Matthew Curtis]

can any of these units have a remote thermostat. If mounting in an upper corner of the shop, it would be a pain to go in and get up to turn increase the temp.

[David Hostetler]

Something that just appears to be barely touched upon here is that insulating the space, and sealing off those drafts is every bit as important as heating it... Your rollup doors are HUGE heat gain / loss points. Seal the gaps around them, and insulate them the best you can! If your garage is unfinished, you may want to seriously consider getting a contractor out to do the spray foam insulation in there, and then finish the walls / ceiling out... Your comfort, and your wallet will thank you later. Initially, at least to the wallet, it is kind of painful.

[Tom Rick]

OK- getting somewhere.

Here is a comparison link to what are called "Electric Unit Heaters" by Dayton:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/viewCatalogPDF.shtml?browserCompatable=true&adobeCompatable=true&toolbar=false&CatPage=4091&Catalog=main

And better pricing from these folks:

http://www.drillspot.com/hvacr/heating-equipment/electric-unit-heaters/?brandid=2034&srt=Highprice

I am looking at the 2YU64 and getting a wall mounted thermostat.

[Don Jarvie]

I got mine at the Greenhousemegastore.com. I just looked at the site and the heater is listed at $274.00.

The heater will work fine in your space. I'm at 400 sq ft and it works great.

On cold days I go out and turn it on high and go back in a half hour and it goes from 30 to 55 in that time. I then lick it back so it cycles to keep it around 60. I have a digital thermometer to keep my eye on the temp.

As mentioned insultation is the key.