Mortiser advise

[Jerome Hanby]

Sorry if this is a re-post

Lost out on a used Delta 14-650 mortiser but had already made some plans for it. I'm thinking of just giving up and buying a new Mortiser. I know regardless of what model I get, whatever chisels I end up with are going to need some prep before I get good use form therm. I'm not letting the chisels figure into my decision, i am more concerned with getting a useful piece of machinery (that I can afford and have room for).

I know the Jet 3000 hour sale than ends on the 23rd has the Powermatic PM701 for about $350 with no chisels. I've seen several posts on the creek where folks weren't entirely pleased with these. From what i can find online, it looks like a much more substantial machine than the offerings from Jet, Delta, and Shopfox. At $350 + chisels, it's at the top of my price range. Reviews on Woodcraft and Amazon look favorable for the most part. I've seen many reviews that contain something to the effect of, all bench top mortisers are plagued with poor hold downs, but the Powermatic was far superior... Plus, it has a bigger motor than the Jet or Delta...

The Delta 14-651 is in the $250 ballpark and come with chisels. gets fair reviews, but I've seen lots of general Delta bashing over quality. On the other hand, Norm used seeral models of this mortiser and they looked good on TV:D

I see a lot of Jet saw and lathe fans on the creek and wonder if that enthusiasm extends to their JBM-5 mortiser? Around $250 with the current sale which includes chisels. I see fair reviews, looks like they would have the same deficiencies with the hold down.

I've had the Shopfox W1671 on my Amazon wish list for a long time. It looks sturdy, the only bad reviews I've seen are about shipping. Only thing that gives me pause is the 3450 RPM speed. The rest are all half of that. I've read reviews where they mention burning and smoking with the higher speed machines, but I've seen no direct mention of the Shopfox in that regard.

So, any advise? Unless you have a used whatever for less than $350, I think the four models i mentioned are the only contenders in my price range...

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Jermome -

I have the Steel City (very similar to the Delta IMO), and I like it. I have not used it a *lot*, but my experience so far has been good. Time spent tuning up the (included) chisels really paid off. I had narrowed it down to Steel City or the Delta, but the Steel City was on sale at the time.

There was a good review in one of the mags at one point, and I believe both SS and Delta did well. The Jet unit got dinged because of the table (was MDR or something at the time - not sure if they went to cast iron).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jerome,

I bought a mortiser but I paid a little more than $350.

Heres why I pushed the envelope out a little farther.

Check the stroke length. How large of a piece of wood can you put under the bit?

What type of hold down does it have?

Can you clamp the wood and use the hold down?

Can you use both 5/8" and 3/4" shanked bits/chisels?

Does it swivel for off bench mortising?

Does it tilt for angular mortises?

Look at Woodcraft right now. They have a sale on the Powermatic benchtop and it falls within your $350 limit.

I'm not recommending it...I am suggesting you might want to put it into the mix for consideration.

I bought the General International because of a 9" stroke....a better clamp/hold down and it tilts 30º right or left. But I also paid a few dollars more.

Good luck with your decision. I used mine for the first time on a project and it worked just like Norm's did!:rolleyes:

[Kirk Poore]

In addition to Ken's very good points, if there is any way you can try the candidates out in person you should. There is enough variation in weight, stiffness, handles, and hold downs between benchtop machines that the difference in "feel" might be very significant for you.

Kirk

[Jerome Hanby]

The Powermatic is one of the four machines I mentioned. It just looks like a better machine than the other three. Only thing about Powermatic that bothers me is I've seen several creekers post recent experiences about bad experiences (one with this particular piece of equipment) where the units got out of the factory with defects and they went round and round to get everything corrected. I'm sure a bad experience is much more likely to result in a post than a satisfactory one, so I may be reading more significance into this than is warranted.

I was looking at Steel City once upon a time, but our Woodcraft stopped carrying them...

[Callan Campbell]

Got rid of it and got the Powermatic floor model, 719T? The Shopfox was OK for me except for that higher RPM and me wanting more out of a mortiser once I had my first one to play with. It was my first mortiser, so I only had store demo models to compare it to. I know some people like the roller guides on the Jet and Powermatic models more than a plain hold down system.

[Cary Falk]

I have the Steel City also and am happy with it.

[Jerome Hanby]

Local Woodcraft say they have a model that will be in the store in the next few weeks that is very similar to the Steel City. Of course, the Jet/PM sale is over by then...

Think if I can swing the funds, I'm going to buy the PM. It looks tougher and it will swing a 3/4" bit...


I have the Steel City also and am happy with it.

[Gary Herrmann]

I have the JFM-5 and like it a great deal. A friend has the JBM-5 and doesn't like to all that much - specifically the fence.

[Terry Welty]

Don't laugh, but I actually have a harbor freight mortiser. It was a piece of crap until I added a cross slide vice to hold the board during the mortising... It works incredibly well...

[lawrence dosson]

I have a 14-650 and it is the only delta tool that i have that i realy dislike and my shop is pretty much grey
i would not buy it again under powered and hard to use be glad you missed out on that one
lawrence

[Thomas Williams]

I have the Shop Fox and have no complaints. It has fit my needs fine. If I were buying a bench top again, it would be high on my list.

[Jerome Hanby]

I heard great things about the Jet but then couldn't reconcile what I heard to what I saw. Must have been the model change...


I have the JFM-5 and like it a great deal. A friend has the JBM-5 and doesn't like to all that much - specifically the fence.

[Rod Sheridan]

As Ken mentioned, the General International is more money, however it has been top ranked by several magazines for awhile.

Excellent hold down, good vise, works great.

I've owned mine for 8 years and have cut thousands of mortices with it.

I would buy it again............Rod.

[Darl Bundren]

I bought the Steel City benchtop mortiser and have liked it. Fairly easy to use, and the chisels that came with it are (as far as I can tell) decent.

[Peter Parrinello]

I had a Delta bench top mortiser & did not care for it. When I upgraded I went to a PM 719A floor model (no angle tilt back then) and have been very happy with it . If I were going to buy again today, it would be the same machine with tilt or the General verison.

[John Carlo]

I have never regretted this purchase. It handles mortises with ease. The indexing stops make repeatability a breeze. And don't overlook its usefulness for more than mortise and tenon joints. Nothing makes a square hole to hold a square nut for a jig or a bolt together joint better.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I bought a Jet bench-top used a several months ago and have been using on a complex set of bedside tables (each with 48 M/T joints). The issue with the bench-top models in my opinion is the table/fence/hold down...not the chisels or lever-handle or chuck access (things magazine reviews have given weight to). While it has made square holes...perfect for the square spindles I am fitting...it was no less set-up time for longer apron m/t's than a simple router jig and up-cut bit.

I didn't have the duckets for a better model as I have recently set up my workshop and a new SS PCS, jointer, planer, dp, dc, blades, bits, hand-tools, bench build, etc. just didn't allow. But, I would love to make the move to a floor model with a great clamping xyz table. THe PM 719a has been drooled on more than once.

[Paul McGaha]

I'm with John and Peter in that I've had good luck with the floor standing Powermatic. Mine is the 719A (Non tilting table). Perfect out of the box and no problems with it ever. I bought mine based on a review of hollow chisel mortisers by American Woodworker magazine. I've had it maybe 6 or 7 years now.

It has been one of the few original tools in my shop that wasnt later upgraded to a better tool (6" to 8" jointer, lunchbox planer to full size planer, etc.).

PHM

[michael case]

General International Makes a very nice one. I believe it can also cut angle mortises.

[david blakelock]

I have the General International as well. It is a little more expensive than what you want to spend, but it is a great tool. I use it all the time and am very pleased with it. It is well built, very heavy, easy to adjust and use.

[Shawn Pixley]

I have the powermatic mortiser and love it. If I had more room I'd get the floor standing model, but the 701 does almost all I want today.

[Jerome Hanby]

Thanks for all the great information and advise. One of the super guys at the local Woodcraft put me over the top with a Personal Message the pickiest guy working there finally settling on the Powermatic 701. Just got back to work from plunking my ~$390 down. Should be at the store next week.

Apologies to Woodcraft, but they didn't have CMT bits in stock and I was waffling between CMT and LV and I want one of those miniture shoulder planes, so...

[Gary Herrmann]

I heard great things about the Jet but then couldn't reconcile what I heard to what I saw. Must have been the model change...

The Jet JFM5 is the rebadged PM719a. Mine still has PM markings in the CI. Maybe you saw a pre model change version?

[Jerome Hanby]

The Jet JFM5 is the rebadged PM719a. Mine still has PM markings in the CI. Maybe you saw a pre model change version?

The problem was on my side, I assumed we were talking about bench top models and the Jet is clearly not the same as the PM. I just looked up the JFM5 and it does look pretty much just like the PM floor model.

[Gary Herrmann]

The problem was on my side, I assumed we were talking about bench top models and the Jet is clearly not the same as the PM. I just looked up the JFM5 and it does look pretty much just like the PM floor model.

Yep, it is the same. PM moved the 719A to the Jet line when they came out with the 719T. I got mine a couple years ago during a fantastic black friday sale. I'm using the LV chisels with it. Smooth, precise mortises.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.........Got rid of it and got the Powermatic floor model, 719T...........

I did the same thing - sorta. Definitely outside the $350 price range. Was also definitely outside of my price range at the time, but....Had the Delta pre-cursor [12 yrs ago]. To be fair - it did what it was supposed to do, at that price range. But...

I intended to do - and have done - a lot of Arts + Crafts / Stickley / Ellis stuff, including through-tenons in big $$$$ QSWO. I wanted something with not only more muscle, but an easier way to set up more accuratley, and solid repeatability. No "T" in them days - I have the 719A [use it on a bench - never used the base - sold that to a Creeker a few weeks ago].

It depends on what for + how often you intend to use it, IMO. For occasional use, where you don't mind the time, the detailed work to set it up accuratley, and the not-really-bulletproof repeatibility, then you're fine with your target range. Not dissing them - they are what they are, and are a good value, and a lot of folks are very happy with that - pick your spot on the price-performance curve, that's all.

Gave the Delta to a good friend for use at the local high school - he was the shop teacher - and got the PM. DOn't know what the used market is like for them, but a very, very solid machine in my experience.