The tubing for the "pop bottle" bleeding of brakes

[Stephen Tashiro]

The nipples on the bleed valves of automotive brakes look like they are designed to accept tubing with a small diameter. I've never seen any such tubing in the plumbing section of hardware stores. The thin type of vacuum line from an automobile parts store might work on some bleeders. Is there supposed to be a type of tubing that fits bleed valves? Is there some connector to adapt it to tubing used in plumbing?

There are kits for the "pop bottle" bleeding of brakes that have small tubes. The tubing is usually too curly and the container that is supplied is too light and easy to tip over, not like an old fashioned glass pop bottle. Plus, for what you get, these kits seem unreasonably expensive. What kind of tubing did they use for "pop bottle" bleeding in the old days when all the pop came in glass bottles?

[Bruce Page]

Tygon tubing. You should be able to find it in various sizes at one of the borgs.

[Pat Germain]

You can use any flexible tubing that fits sugly over the fitting; vacuum hose or vinyl "fish tank" tubing, for example.

Using a clear container of some kind is helpful for recovering the brake fluid. This makes it easier to see if air is still coming out. Unless you install one-way bleeder fittings, you'll need someone at the fitting to tighten it down after bleed-down anyway. So, this person can simply hold the container and keep it from tipping over.

Be sure to wear gloves and goggles. Brake fluid is pretty nasty on the skin and really nasty in the eyes.

[Joe Pelonio]

I use fish tank air tubing, because it's clear so you can see the fluid.

[Dan Hintz]

And now's a good time to swap out for bleeder nipples... allows you to do brake bleeds without help from someone else.

[Pat Germain]

And now's a good time to swap out for bleeder nipples... allows you to do brake bleeds without help from someone else.

Do you know if NAPA carries those bleeder nipples? I've never actually seen them available at auto parts stores. Do you typically have to order them online, or something?

[Rob Steffeck]

Do you know if NAPA carries those bleeder nipples? I've never actually seen them available at auto parts stores. Do you typically have to order them online, or something?

I use these:

http://www.speedbleeder.com/

[Scott Shepherd]

How come you are bleeding them? Last 10 sets of brakes and rotors I have changed out over the years have all been done without having to bleed the brakes. Were you just changing the brakes or doing more in depth work?

[Josiah Bartlett]

I use the clear vinyl tubing, but I also use a mityvac which makes it much more convenient.

You are actually supposed to change your brake fluid every 3 years, since it is hygroscopic. Changing the fluid often prevents rust in the system. I change my brake fluid every time I do a brake job by flushing it through the master cylinder and out the bleeder valve at each wheel. Then I go out and activate the ABS a few times and do it again.

[Stephen Tashiro]

How come you are bleeding them? Last 10 sets of brakes and rotors I have changed out over the years have all been done without having to bleed the brakes. Were you just changing the brakes or doing more in depth work?

My encounter with bleeding brakes is a continuation of the thread on the 83 Fairmont brakes, a car that has been sitting parked for 5 years. (It only has about 87,000 miles on it.) Today a friend and I bled the brakes. We must have spent a half hour trying to get fluid to come out of the front passenger side bleed valve. Then we noticed that the brake on that wheel was working. Then we noticed the bleed valve itself was clogged up. We unclogged it, but still no fluid comes out. That area of the brake must really be dirty.

[Chris Padilla]

How come you are bleeding them? Last 10 sets of brakes and rotors I have changed out over the years have all been done without having to bleed the brakes. Were you just changing the brakes or doing more in depth work?

BMW recommends changing your brake fluid every 2 years. Brake fluid is hydroscopic: it absorbs water (from its environment). As it becomes water-laden, it doesn't work as well.

[Dan Hintz]

Chris, it's hygroscopic (I know, hydroscopic sounds more appropriate because hydro is water, right?).



Stephen,

If you have that kind of gunk level, you really need to tear apart all four brakes down to the piston level. Pick up rebuild kits (should cost about $50/wheel, less if you find a dealer who will offer at 10% over cost) and expect to spend the evening if you've never done it before.

That much gunk tells me there's a good possibility for broken seals, and a possibility for rust/pitting along the piston walls from continual exposure to moisture. A few years back I went through this with my S2000, to the point that I finally took it to a shop and told them to replace all four calipers with rebuilds.

[Scott Shepherd]

You are actually supposed to change your brake fluid every 3 years, since it is hygroscopic.

I usually just put more in when it's low.


(Yes, that's was a joke!)

[Callan Campbell]

My encounter with bleeding brakes is a continuation of the thread on the 83 Fairmont brakes, a car that has been sitting parked for 5 years. (It only has about 87,000 miles on it.) Today a friend and I bled the brakes. We must have spent a half hour trying to get fluid to come out of the front passenger side bleed valve. Then we noticed that the brake on that wheel was working. Then we noticed the bleed valve itself was clogged up. We unclogged it, but still no fluid comes out. That area of the brake must really be dirty.
Once you've removed the clogged bleeder screw, you need to make sure that the tiny hole in either a caliper or wheel cylinder isn't also clogged with crud. You can use a simple drill bit that's small enough to carefully twist into the hole and unclog the crud. 1/16" or right near that size usually works well for bleeder screw ports in brake calipers , etc. Agree with Dan H. about the real possibility that major work for the vehicle is in its future. Just because you get air out of the system, and 4 wheels working/stopping doesn't mean you're done, or that the car is DONE with YOU.....:p:p
Another thing that can mimic clogged screws and bleeder ports is that one or more of the flexible brake hoses are preventing any pressure /flow through, due to swelled interior/ID of the hose itself. Until you've seen one do this, it's kind of hard to believe that the hose could stop high pressure on it's own, but it DOES happen. Only cure is a new flex hose, which can lead to dealing with rusted, breaking steel lines on an older vehicle.

[Callan Campbell]

The nipples on the bleed valves of automotive brakes look like they are designed to accept tubing with a small diameter. I've never seen any such tubing in the plumbing section of hardware stores. The thin type of vacuum line from an automobile parts store might work on some bleeders. Is there supposed to be a type of tubing that fits bleed valves? Is there some connector to adapt it to tubing used in plumbing?

There are kits for the "pop bottle" bleeding of brakes that have small tubes. The tubing is usually too curly and the container that is supplied is too light and easy to tip over, not like an old fashioned glass pop bottle. Plus, for what you get, these kits seem unreasonably expensive. What kind of tubing did they use for "pop bottle" bleeding in the old days when all the pop came in glass bottles?
When I'm not using either my pressure bleeder, or one of my vacuum bleeders, I have a simple rubber tubing set-up that is tie-wrapped inside a drilled plastic soda/pop bottle. The cap gets drilled to allow the tubing straight down inside of the bottle, and I drill a similar hole at the side of the bottle, near the upper section so I can shove the loose end of the tubing into the bottle to allow any fluid to drain back into it.
Yes, the loose tubing can flop around a bit, and until you get some weight in the bottom of the bottle with the flushed/drained brake fluid, the bottle also has a mind of its own. BUT, it's dirt cheap, and with manual bleeding of a brake system, very effective with two people working the vehicle together. I've used clear tubing from the hardware store, but unlike industrial tubing that comes with my vacuum bleeders, the hardware store tubing seems to react with the brake fluid over time and gets very stiff. Whatever clear tubing comes with commerical bleeders does not.
That's why I use plain rubber vacuum/washer line hose for my older manual bleeder bottle, it works, doesn't seem to be affected by the fluid, and is very cheap. You can rely on the end of the tubing being submerged in the fluid at the bottom of the bleeder bottle to tell you if any air bubbles are coming out of the system while bleeding. More fluid, and no air, just gives you a visible stream of fluid in the bottle from the end of the hose. Usually the color difference between old and new brake fluid is very drastic, so you'll see it right away as your fresh fluid finally makes it to the wheel you're at.
Good luck with this old car.:cool:

[Callan Campbell]

Here is a shot of my "work" bleeder bottle. It's just a used Gatorade bottle, but you get the idea on my previous posts about simple and cheap.
I can also use this with a diagnostic tester that's running the ABS pump to force fluid out of a caliper of my choosing. But that's too high tech and not needed for the old '83 Ford you're working on.:p

[Nick Michalares]

Those Ford Fairmonts can actually lift the back wheels from braking hard. I saw this when the police were testing them back when that car was new.

[Curt Harms]

I've heard of old fluid-presumably due to water in it-requiring the replacement of $$$$ ABS brake components.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Here is a shot of my "work" bleeder bottle. It's just a used Gatorade bottle, but you get the idea on my previous posts about simple and cheap.


If you do "pop-bottle" bleeding, how much brake fluid do you put in that bottle? Enough to cover the bottom of the tube? It seems that "pop-bottle" bleeding involves significantly more brake fluid that the fluid in the master cylinder reservoirs. How should the extra fluid be treated or saved? Do you just pour it back in the bottle?

[Dan Hintz]

Pour it back into the bottle and take it to the local toxic waste recycling facility. Since it's hygroscopic, it will collect water if you leave an opened bottle sitting on the shelf... unless you plan to top it off for some reason (leak?) in the next few days, there's no point in hanging onto any leftovers.

[Bryan Morgan]

The nipples on the bleed valves of automotive brakes look like they are designed to accept tubing with a small diameter. I've never seen any such tubing in the plumbing section of hardware stores. The thin type of vacuum line from an automobile parts store might work on some bleeders. Is there supposed to be a type of tubing that fits bleed valves? Is there some connector to adapt it to tubing used in plumbing?

There are kits for the "pop bottle" bleeding of brakes that have small tubes. The tubing is usually too curly and the container that is supplied is too light and easy to tip over, not like an old fashioned glass pop bottle. Plus, for what you get, these kits seem unreasonably expensive. What kind of tubing did they use for "pop bottle" bleeding in the old days when all the pop came in glass bottles?

Its over by the bathroom plumbing section of any home depot. You can also get it in the pet department (fish tanks) of Walmart or target or whatever.

[Bryan Morgan]

If you do "pop-bottle" bleeding, how much brake fluid do you put in that bottle? Enough to cover the bottom of the tube? It seems that "pop-bottle" bleeding involves significantly more brake fluid that the fluid in the master cylinder reservoirs. How should the extra fluid be treated or saved? Do you just pour it back in the bottle?

Just put enough that it keeps the end of the tubing submerged. You don't want air getting back into the system. I put I dunno, 1/2" or so in the bottom? Not much. Never put anything from the system back into any fresh fluid. Once its out of the bottle it stays out. Shouldn't even really keep the bottle of fresh stuff if you aren't going to use it. I just take all the old stuff to my local Orielly. They take old oil and stuff.

[Callan Campbell]

If you do "pop-bottle" bleeding, how much brake fluid do you put in that bottle? Enough to cover the bottom of the tube? It seems that "pop-bottle" bleeding involves significantly more brake fluid that the fluid in the master cylinder reservoirs. How should the extra fluid be treated or saved? Do you just pour it back in the bottle?
Add enough fluid to the bottle to cover the end of the hose so that air escaping will be easily seen in the fluid-we're only talking a few ounces to start with. You WILL go through fluid while bleeding an older vehicle out, as you will find more crud, rust, etc coming out of the fluid than compared to a new vehicle. Fluid is CHEAP, crashed cars due to poor braking systems aren't[:p] So, buy a few quarts of fluid, or a few pints, and get the old fluid out. DO NOT REUSE old brake fluid. There are too many contaiments in the old fluid that can due damage to the braking system, esp. on new ABS systems. You only need a tiny piece of dirt or rusted steel to hang a solenoid up inside a very pricey ABS modulator.
So, to repeat, treat the brake fluid like used engine oil, dispose of it properly with a shop or parts store that collects used auto fluid for recycling. :cool:

[Bryan Morgan]

How come you are bleeding them? Last 10 sets of brakes and rotors I have changed out over the years have all been done without having to bleed the brakes. Were you just changing the brakes or doing more in depth work?

It breaks down from all the heat and somehow gets crud and air bubbles in there. I've bled the brakes every 20k-30k miles (or less, whenever I think about it :) ) on every car I've ever owned and black crud always comes out. The brakes always feel much firmer with fresh fluid. Its very noticeable on the cars I've put braided steel brake lines on.

[Dan Hintz]

The bleed stub is pointed upwards, so whatever tubing you put on it will arc upwards before going down. that bend acts just like a plumbing trap, just in reverse. There will always be an inch or two of fluid against the nub, so as long as you're careful about closing the nub before trying to suck in more fluid, you'll be fine.