Frame and Panel approach

[Ray Schafer]

I want to make some frame and panel cabinet doors. What methods/tools do you suggest? As always, I am hoping for it to be cheap and easy ... but I don't want to skimp and have doors that will fall apart.

Thanks.
Ray

[David Hawxhurst]

what do you have avavible? router (or shaper), router table, router bit set for your choice of door and panel at a min..

[Ray Schafer]

I have routers and a router table. I have considered using dowels (I have a Dowelmax).

I am willing to buy a set of router bits if I am convinced I will be happy with them in the long term and would want to use them on future frame and panel and raised panel projects.

[david blakelock]

I have a set of router bits for raised panel door along with the rail and stile bits and they are great. I forget which ones I have but I got them from Rockler or Woodcraft. They weren't that expensive and the doors turned out great. I have used them on multiple projects so I have gotten my money worth. I have done both raised panel doors as well as more simple flat panel doors using just a rail and stile kit. The doors have held together very nicely and I have a 5 year old who is always gentle on doors. Hope that helps.

David

[Philip Rodriquez]

Hey, a local Denver guy!

Ray,
There are a million ways to go on this. Materials, size, style, your available tools, etc. will all impact the advice.

Cheap and easy = cope and stick
Cheap and really nice = M&T

Other items to think about are:
Flat or raised panels?
Beaded frames?
Overlay or inset door?
Face frame or euro?
Glass front?

I like M&T doors with a raised panel. They can be done with a router, a TS, or a shaper. I have all three and my choice depends on the size, style, mood, and how many I’m going to make.

[Lee Schierer]

Lap joints make excellent frame and panel doors. You can easily cut them with just a table saw. The joints should last a life time if they are smooth and glued properly.

[Ray Schafer]

Phillip,
I am actually in Parker ... near Ponderosa High School.

All,
I have been considering getting a cope and stick set, but I am afraid that that is not strong enough, and would want suggestions on the best set.

Ray

[David Thompson 27577]

I want to make some frame and panel cabinet doors. What methods/tools do you suggest? As always, I am hoping for it to be cheap and easy ... but I don't want to skimp and have doors that will fall apart.

Thanks.
Ray

If your router is powerful enough, and you have a router table, then using the router works wonderfully. And you can get quite a few different profiles for the frames and for the panels.

Your tablesaw can be used for rails and stiles that have no profile, and for raised panels that have no curves in the profile.

And if you aspire to neanderthalism, buy all of the right handplanes.


Dave

[Philip Rodriquez]

Ray,

I live on Saddle Rock golf course, hole #6 (Arapahoe and E-470). I have a router set I got from Woodcraft years ago. I only used them once and they ran me about 75 to 100 bucks. I'd be willing to sell them to you on the cheap (if I can find them).

I actually use my shaper when I'm doing cope and stick construction. I have three or four sets of Amana shaper cutters, each provide a different profile. Cope and stick is commonly used for cabinet doors and they provide a lot of glue surface and they are pretty darn strong and easy to do. You need a router table, a router, the bits, and a sled to clamp in the coping cut.

For raised panels on a router table, I would take a serious look at the vertical panel bits. It just looks like a safer operation. Oh, and if your router is not a variable speed, the vertical bits may be your only option. I have three horizontal bits, for my shaper, and each of them are around 5" to 6” in diameter. I do not have a power-feeder... so I take a few extra precautions when using them.


I also try to prefinish the panel before I glue everything together. It will prevent you from locking the panel in place.


If I were to buy a set for the router, I would look at some of the CMT bits.

[Ray Schafer]

Phillip,

I may be interested in the bits that you are talking about. I have a powerful, adjustable speed router, so they should work for me. I would me interested in more detail about them, if you can find them.

Thanks.
Ray

[Matt Oulman]

Ray,

Why are you worried that cope & stick wouldn't be strong enough?

Easiest way is flat panels, edge routed - with corresponding groove cut in rails/stiles. Fast and strong. And can be cut with one straight bit on router table.

[Ray Schafer]

I think that I have seen articles that talk about tenon- modified cope and stick for extra strength. That led me to believe that the cope and stick alone may not be strong enough.

[Philip Rodriquez]

I'll see if I can find them and take some pictures. I'll PM you.



Phillip,

I may be interested in the bits that you are talking about. I have a powerful, adjustable speed router, so they should work for me. I would me interested in more detail about them, if you can find them.

Thanks.
Ray

[Philip Rodriquez]

Ray, how big are your doors going to be?

[Ray Schafer]

I guess typical cabinet doors -- except some will be 42 in in height.

[Paul Incognito]

Resurrecting a forgotten thread, thanks for the search feature.
Ray, I've made lots of cabinet doors using cope and stick joints on the router table. Haven't had a door fall apart yet...
That being said, I have a question. Does anyone out there use dowels as well as cope and stick to put the rails and stiles together? Would it help to kep the door flat? I've had problems with doors twisting in the past. Maybe I just need to be more careful with gluing them up? Mortise and tennon would be nice, but I figure for production work dowels would be more efficient. Besides, I have my eye on the new Jessem jig. :)
TIA,
PI

[John TenEyck]

Most doweling set ups are slow and tedious to get matching holes unless you have dedicated equipment. If your door isn't flat during dry clamp up, doweling isn't going to fix the problem. Something is wrong with your stile/rail joints. Cope and stick joints seem plenty strong - I haven't had one come loose yet. But if you want extra strength, I'd recommend a loose tenon instead of dowels. The mortises are quick and easy to cut with a router and simple guide, or with an easily built horizontal router mortising table, and the tenons are easily shop made to any size required. I've made a bunch of doors this way, including some with curved rails where I couldn't figure out how else to join them.

If you want to go really cheap, you don't even need cope and stick bits to get the look. You just run whatever profile you want on the inside edge of your stiles and rails. Then cut the dados for the panels with a router or table saw. Then cut away the profile on the end of the stiles, with 45 deg angles on the profiles where the stiles and rails meet. Cut mortises in the stiles and rails for a loose tenon, and you're done. Same thing for raised panels. You can use your table saw to cut raised panels, or even your router with a straight bit and a jig to hold it at the desired angle. I even cut a few with a large cove bit I already had. You can spend money to make frame and panel doors, or none at all.

[Paul Incognito]

Thanks John,
I kind of suspected that the fault was in my machining or glue-up. It's just easier to blame the equipment :) So instead of buying the dowel jig I'll take some extra care with stock selection, machining and glue-up of my next bach of doors. And best of all, this will be free!
Happy New Year!
PI

[Philip Rodriquez]

I actually sold him my cope and stick router set and I showed him how to use them. Paul, It is a good practice to mill your wood oversized, day one, and bring it down to finished size, day two. You'll get much flatter doors.

[Steve Jenkins]

Paul,when you are clamping up the door make sure to check for flatness with a straightedge across the rail to stile joint. It is really easy to pull the stiles up when you tighten the clamps. depending on what you are using for clamps you may need to use a narrow backup stick set slightly below center on the stile edge.

[Paul Incognito]

Philip, that's a great idea! I'll try that with the job I'm starting next week.
Steve, yea, I tend to rush thru the glue up. I'll take a little more time this time around and double check everything.
Thanks for your help!
Happy New Year!
PI

[Frank Drew]

I like a mortise and tenon joint for its proven strength and longevity; to make cope and stick joints with router bits, I removed the bearing from the coping cutter, and ground off the screw down to the top of the bit so that I could still make the coping cut under a normal tenon, using a fence and/or miter guide.