Quiet(er) table saw?

[Dustin Smith]

Hi gang,

I have been saving my pennies for a nice table saw and am about ready to make a purchase. I have my choices narrowed down to either a new Powermatic PM2000 or a used Unisaw (~10 years old). Obviously it would be nice to save $1000 and get the used Unisaw, but I'm concerned about noise. I've never been around a running cabinet saw, of any kind, so I'm just curious. Can I expect the low "hum" that comes across on camera while watching Norm on The New Yankee Workshop, or is that just sound editing? I imagine it's the latter, but I thought it couldn't hurt to ask.

I have been using a Dewalt benchtop table saw and it SCREAMS when turned on. It's VERY loud.

I understand the induction motor in a cabinet saw will be quieter than the universal motor in the little benchtop saw I have....but I'm wondering how much more quiet the Unisaw/PM2000 will be versus the Dewalt?

What's the most quiet cabinet saw on the market? I've done some searching but wasn't able to find any noise reviews/articles/etc.

Thanks,
Dustin

[Van Huskey]

The difference between your Dewalt and ANY induction motored cabinet saw is going to be VERY significant. The difference between the new PM and older Delta will be relatively small. Even blades can make a difference, Tenryu blades tend to produce less sound than the other mid-upper level blades. I have never seen a direct comparison with cabinet saws but to my ear not trying to make a comparison seem pretty much the same.

[Frank Drew]

Dustin,

I don't know if they're making quiet machines these days, but I would never use a table saw, or router, jointer, planer, chain saw, etc. without hearing protection.

When I upgraded from a Powermatic to an Ulmia, the faster blade speed Ulmia was piercingly loud, but it was also a much better saw.

[Bruce Wrenn]

On belt driven saws, usually the blade makes the most of the noise. A fifty tooth combo blade makes a distinctive sound, no matter what brand.

[Josiah Bartlett]

On my unisaw, (mid 70's), the blade makes more noise than anything else, especially while sawing. Compared to the bench saw, it will be like the difference between the noise of a Cadillac and a weedeater.

[John Coloccia]

Compared to my dust collector, everything in my shop is practically whisper quiet!

Are you worried about noise because of where you live (like a condo, maybe, or something like that)?

[Steve Griffin]

A mountaineer once said: "there is no such thing as bad weather ,only bad clothes"

Sound like someone needs to invest in some good ear protection.

BTW, I can't imagine many tools louder than my belt driven Hitachi chop saw. When it physically hurts your ears, that's when you know the engineers stayed up extra late trying to make their product extra special loud...

Sound is never a factor in my tool decisions, except for tools which I want to be able to use without protection, such as a shop vac.

-Steve

[Jim Summers]

Compared to my dust collector, everything in my shop is practically whisper quiet!

Are you worried about noise because of where you live (like a condo, maybe, or something like that)?

+1, DC is much more of a noise maker.

[Dustin Smith]

Are you worried about noise because of where you live (like a condo, maybe, or something like that)?

Yes -- I live in a townhome end unit, so I have neighbors on one wall. I do my woodworking in our 2-car garage. That's why I'm looking for as close to "quiet" as I can get.

Dustin

[Neil Brooks]

Compared to my dust collector, everything in my shop is practically whisper quiet!

Without much detail, this study (http://www.me.mtu.edu/courses/meem4704/project/papers/nc03_table_saw.pdf) doesn't make it seem like that's the case -- particularly when compared to SPLs (Sound Pressure Levels) from the DCs tested here (http://www.deltaportercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf).


Are you worried about noise because of where you live (like a condo, maybe, or something like that)?And that, to me, is the $64,000 question.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Sound aside, there's another hidden choice here.

The Powermatic is a left tilt saw. And the 10 year old Unisaw is a right tilt saw.

Most folks prefer a left tilt saw. I have a right tilt Unisaw that I've been using for over 20 years. I wish it was left tilt.

Jeff :)

[Lex Boegen]

Is it practical to add sound insulation to your "common wall"? You could glue up foam panels, build a "floating wall" in front of your existing wall, etc. That would help deaden all noise coming from your shop.

[John Coloccia]

Without much detail, this study (http://www.me.mtu.edu/courses/meem4704/project/papers/nc03_table_saw.pdf) doesn't make it seem like that's the case -- particularly when compared to SPLs (Sound Pressure Levels) from the DCs tested here (http://www.deltaportercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf).

And that, to me, is the $64,000 question.

The loudest tablesaw was about 70dBa, and most of the small dust collectors in that study were over 80dBa. But I have a big Clearvue and that thing is LOUD! :D

[David Christopher]

I dont know what kind of saws that yall are using...

when my 1958 5 HP unisaw is running, all you hear is a whisper of the blade turning....no hearing protection needed..you can talk at a normal voice and be heard just fine

if you need hearing protection for your cabinet saw, you need to sell it

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

The difference between your Dewalt and ANY induction motored cabinet saw is going to be VERY significant. The difference between the new PM and older Delta will be relatively small. Even blades can make a difference, Tenryu blades tend to produce less sound than the other mid-upper level blades. I have never seen a direct comparison with cabinet saws but to my ear not trying to make a comparison seem pretty much the same.

I agree.

I went from a Delta saw with a universal motor that totally SCREAMED, to a new saw with a 3HP induction motor, and the difference was stunning. With the Delta, I could not even consider using it w/out hearing protection. The new saw is quiet enough that I could consider running it w/out hearing protection (but I don't). The wife always knew when I ran the old saw; with the new one, she doesn't even here it when she's on the 1st floor.

[Mike Archambeau]

If you want to work with less noise you could get a Festool TS55 track saw for cutting up sheet goods, and a bandsaw for ripping, resawing, and crosscutting. Along with some nice hand tools and you can work pretty quietly and precisely.

[glenn bradley]

As (almost) all others have said, wear hearing protection. My saw when running is very quiet. Add a blade and the sound increases depending on the blade. Regardless of that, I do not turn my saw on to look at it, I cut with it. When cutting, it is loud enough to require hearing protection. Even if it wasn't, my DC is inside and although the motor is quiet, the moving air is certainly louder than the saw; again, hearing protection. Any induction motor in the power ranges we use, in my experience, is many times quieter than a universal motor designed for a similar use.

[Frank Drew]

when my 1958 5 HP unisaw is running, all you hear is a whisper of the blade turning....no hearing protection needed..you can talk at a normal voice and be heard just fine

if you need hearing protection for your cabinet saw, you need to sell it

See my post #3, above; my Powermatic was also a '50s 5 hp (model 70?); the Ulmia was 5Kw, so just under 7 hp, but regardless of the power rating, the Ulmia simply had a higher blade speed, and, as others have noted, it's principally the blade that makes the noise.

[Neil Brooks]

The loudest tablesaw was about 70dBa, and most of the small dust collectors in that study were over 80dBa. But I have a big Clearvue and that thing is LOUD! :D

Not being an acoustical engineer .... I think figure 1, in the study is the apples-to-apples comparison for the DC study.

Figure 1 called the sound pressure levels of the saw closer to 97dbA.

One primary difference between the TS and the DC is that ... most of us (I'm guessing) have moved the DC fairly far away from our ears, if not separately enclosed it in its own room.

In other words, we're more flexible about its location than we might be with the TS.

A Clearvue would be niiiiice :)

Dustin: I wonder how much you could effectively reduce ALL shop noise by doing .... something on the garage wall that abuts your neighbors' place.

There are a fair number of ways to use soundproofing material that wouldn't cost a fortune. Shaped foam comes to mind, or ... buying and hanging some old-school, used, heavy drapes, or ... something.

Good luck !

[Mike Heidrick]

I agree with all the comments on the DC being the noisy machine.

[Justin M Rovang]

On my unisaw, (mid 70's), the blade makes more noise than anything else, especially while sawing. Compared to the bench saw, it will be like the difference between the noise of a Cadillac and a weedeater.

I just picked up an old Walker-Turner cabinet saw not long ago, an upgrade from my Jet benchtop... The difference in noise is incredible. (The JET was technically a 'belt driven', very noisy still).

It seems to me hollow-ground blades have much more of a 'ring' than a carbide dipped blade in terms of noise as well.

[paul cottingham]

I just put a thin kerf blade on my contractor saw and am shocked at how much quieter it is when cutting.

ymmv

[Ron Bontz]

Just my humble opinion. But I consider any right tilt saw finger choppers. Unless you have a Saw Stop, Why take the chance. That being said, my uni is about 10 yrs. old and if I hear anything other than the musical whirr of the blade I shut down and start looking for the source. Thin kerf blades may be quieter yet. But they will also deflect easier. I now only use full kerf blades for the most part. OH If only the DC was as quiet as the saw blade. Hearing protectors are wonderful things. Best of luck with your choice either way.:)

[John Coloccia]

Unless you plan a special order, you won't be doing it with SawStop either. It's a left tilt, of course. I will say that my SawStop contractor saw doesn't make quite as much noise as my old Delta, or if it does it's more pleasant at any rate. It's not a difference worth really noting, though.

[John Coloccia]

Not being an acoustical engineer .... I think figure 1, in the study is the apples-to-apples comparison for the DC study.

Figure 1 called the sound pressure levels of the saw closer to 97dbA.


Figures 1 and 2 are called out in dB so it's just showing the relative powers of the different noise sources (figure 1) and the general shape of the spectrum (figure 2). Figure 3 is the one called out in dBA, so it's the only one that can be compared to other dBA measurements. Maybe I'm just not reading it right because it looks all grainy and garbled on my computer. If I'm missing an "A" on figure 1 or 2, then I apologize.

All the figures seem rather low to me, though, to be honest.

[Dustin Smith]

As (almost) all others have said, wear hearing protection.

Guys,

Sorry, I should have clarified....but I'm concerned with the noise because I live in a townhome with neighbors on one wall....not because I don't want to wear hearing protection.

Dustin

[mreza Salav]

The tablesaw itself is quiet. It's when you are cutting that makes the most noise. So the sound of cutting wood is the loudest moment, otherwise the noise of the saw itself running is not comparable to a universal motor (of a circular saw or those cheap job-site saws).

[Rod Sheridan]

Guys,

Sorry, I should have clarified....but I'm concerned with the noise because I live in a townhome with neighbors on one wall....not because I don't want to wear hearing protection.

Dustin

Dustin, as someone who has his shop in the basement of an end unit townhouse, don't worry about the noise level of the cabinet saw, or contractor saw.

They are far less noisy than a portable saw.

Regards, Rod.

[glenn bradley]

Guys,

Sorry, I should have clarified....but I'm concerned with the noise because I live in a townhome with neighbors on one wall....not because I don't want to wear hearing protection.

Dustin

I should have mentioned that. There are needs beyond the operator for quiet machinery that sometimes escape me in my quest to emphasize safety.

My bandsaw is quieter than my tablesaw both while running and while cutting. Many folks run a shop without a tablesaw. I wouldn't want to because I'm spoiled but I certainly could see doing it if a tablesaw would cramp my shop time :).

[Heather Thompson]

Dustin,

Like you I also live in an end unit townhome with a two car garage that is a dedicated shop, there has never been a problem with noise. The shop does not have a common wall with the neighbor, our living space shares the common wall. Last winter I fired up the PM66, 3hp cyclone and went next door and let myself in for a listen ( I watch her place for her while she winters in Florida), nothing could be heard from the shop noise.

Heather

[Will Overton]

As (almost) all others have said, wear hearing protection.

OP said he lives in a Townhouse and is concerned about the noise bothering his neighbors.

Is he supposed to wear hearing protection so he can't hear them yelling at him?

:D:D:D

[glenn bradley]

OP said he lives in a Townhouse and is concerned about the noise bothering his neighbors.

Is he supposed to wear hearing protection so he can't hear them yelling at him?

:D:D:D

Absolutely :D.

[Tom Hassad]

I have read that those plastic link belts are supposed to help reduce noise. It is interesting no one has mentioned that so I wonder if it is just marketing. Also, I think there is a tenyru blade that is marketed for sound reduction. I know thinner kerfed blades also help as one of the prior posters mentioned.

I also think it depends on what you are doing - I find my dado blades don't make that whining pitched sound that my regular combo blade makes but it still makes noise.

I was wondering if anyone can comment on whether a cabinet saw is quieter than a contractor's saw because the motor is inside a cabinet I assume it may help but not sure if the higher horsepower of a cabinet saw cancels that out when comparing to a lower powered contractor's saw.

For insulation purposes you can also consider upgrading the garage door to one that has insulation to soak up the noise if you are cutting in an enclosed space but just make sure you have ventilation and dust collection.

[Peter Quinn]

I don"t know about DB"s and sound pressure, but my 5 hp cab saw makes a gentle hum that will lull the baby to sleep, while my makita job site ts makes a ferocious whine that will wake the dead. Its not just about volume, it's about the pitch. Ask any musician. Your neighbors will hear the portable through a concrete wall, but they will feel the cabinet saw almost imperceptibly.

But put a blade in either saw and shove some hard wood in, and both begin to sound like a loaded freight train on a long straight away. Loud.

[Rich Engelhardt]

My job site (Hitachi) howles like a dog being beaten. My Ridgid TS3660 is about 90% quieter until the blade gets into what's beigng cut, then it goes up to about a third as noisy.

My Coleman Oiless 3.5HP compressor will wake the dead it throbs so loud.

My 2.5HP Freud 1700 router just screams like a banshee. It's almost as intense as a two stroke Offy making serious RPMs on the straights @ Indy.

Far and away the piercing scream of the router is the worst.
Job site saw w/a thin kerf "singing" is second.

A lot of times it's not the sound level, it's the pitch.

[Dustin Smith]

Well guys, I ended up getting a Jet XACTA Saw Deluxe cabinet saw, and I LOVE it. It's amazing how quiet it is, induction motors are where it's at! If only the dust collector were as quiet as the saw!

[Marty Paulus]

Actually the loudest, noisest tool in my shop is the Delta lunchbox planer. You can't hear yourself think when that is running let alone cutting. Contractors table saw is quiet as I belive all I really hear is blade cutting air. CMS is loud but unless I am cutting a lot of stuff it doesn't really require the muffs.

[Chris Fournier]

This thread has pointed out a few things:

The noise of an idling TS is really about two factors. One is induction motor noise vs universal motor noise race - no contest either. The second is about the blade noise which likely comes down to the plate harmonics for that annoying ring and the movement of air by the teeth and gullets which gives you the jet engine forced air noise.

If you increase the blade speed I can assure you that you can turn a whisper into a roar. My TS can run at 3500 rpm or 5000 rpm. 3500 rpm allows me to amble over and get my earmuffs in preparation for the cut as its pretty quiet. 5000 rpm and I have ear plugs under the earmuffs and tears in my eyes before I hit the start switch. Same blade by the way. There is no noise worse or louder/offensive to my ears in my shop than the TS idling at 5000 rpm. Oh yeah, the scoring saw on my TS is a very close second, 10200 rpm and that tiny blade are like the mouse that roars. My shaper at 12000 rpm with a 6" diameter insert cutterhead installed is a lullaby by comparison.

Now add wood to the TS and no matter how you slice it, it comes up noisey. Spare your neighbours the induction motor racket and shy of sound insulation and carefully thought out shop hours, that's the best that you can do when it comes to TS noise.

[David Hostetler]

No matter Unisaw, or Powermatic, either way you go, an induction motor, belt driven cabinet saw, unless there is something majorly wrong with it, will run MUCH, MUCH quieter than a direct drive universal motor equipped saw. Your neighbors will appreciate that. Having said that, no matter what table saw you get, the majority of your noise will, or at least should come from the blade when it is cutting. some blades are quieter than others. The Tenryu is designed to be as quiet as possible, and it does a good job of it... Freud blades are fairly quiet as well...