Brazing My #60 1/2

[Tom LaRussa]

I have a nice little Stanley #60 1/2 with a chipped mouth. The chip is at the rear edge, so it affects the ability of the mouth to support the blade.

I tried filling in with solder, but the solder broke off when I tried to file it down to the correct angle. I think this might have something to do with my not knowing a single thing about how to braze cast iron -- heck, I don't even know if "braze" is the correct term for what I'm trying to do!

In desperation I tried to fill the chip with JB Weld epoxy, but with the same result, i.e., it came loose when I tried to file it down to the correct angle.

Any ideas? :(

TIA,

Tom

[Steve Cox]

It's my understanding from reading (no real experience) that what you're trying to do doesn't work very well. It is very hard to weld to the iron used in the Stanleys and the heat used is likely to distort the plane especially in the thin area behind the mouth. 60 1/2 block planes are close to a dime a dozen, why all the effort to fix one that probably won't be that good when you can get another one pretty cheap?

[Tom LaRussa]

It's my understanding from reading (no real experience) that what you're trying to do doesn't work very well. It is very hard to weld to the iron used in the Stanleys and the heat used is likely to distort the plane especially in the thin area behind the mouth. 60 1/2 block planes are close to a dime a dozen, why all the effort to fix one that probably won't be that good when you can get another one pretty cheap?
What? Do you want me to just 'give up'?! :confused: :eek:

Did Washington just 'give up' when the British crossed the Rubicon?

NO!

Did Moses just 'give up' when the Romans burned Jerusalem?

NO!

Did Lincoln just 'give up' at Waterloo?

NO!

And by Gumm I'm not going to just 'give up' on this poor little plane now!

;)

But seriously, a decent 60 1/2 is not all that cheap -- at least not by my standards.

Besides, I really like to use tools that I've rescued from oblivion.

So, anybody else got any ideas?????

[Bob Smalser]

Braze....not solder.

Go to brownells.com and look at their Fusion Silver Braze ground in flux. The gap-filling flavor and MAPP gas should do your chip easily enuf. Use a stainless steel dentist's spatula to apply and work it into shape once it begins to harden after melting.

Needs to surgically clean....chalk areas you don't want braze to stick to...1100 degrees for 40k psi....cool it slowly ovenight in a bucket of ashes or lime and flatten the sole afterwards.

[Dan Moening]

"60 1/2 block planes are close to a dime a dozen..."

Um, Steve, I have a dime, could you point me in the right direction?

:confused:

[Tom LaRussa]

Braze....not solder.

Go to brownells.com and look at their Fusion Silver Braze ground in flux. The gap-filling flavor and MAPP gas should do your chip easily enuf. Use a stainless steel dentist's spatula to apply and work it into shape once it begins to harden after melting.

Needs to surgically clean....chalk areas you don't want braze to stick to...1100 degrees for 40k psi....cool it slowly ovenight in a bucket of ashes or lime and flatten the sole afterwards.
Thanks Bob! :)

Somehow I had a feeling you'd know what to do with this. Can't imagine why... :D

[Steve Cox]

Okay, Okay! I surrender!:p 60 1/2 planes are not quite a dime a dozen and it is nice to rescue planes from oblivion (I have a 5 that I've cobbled together from three different incomplete planes) but good used block planes are not that expensive and if you need to buy brazing supplies and a stainless dentists spatula then do a fair amount of tune up to bring it back to standards then it might be cheaper to hunt for a new one. Just my opinion and others are certainly entitled to disagree.:)

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/48396786.jpg

Just passed this recently-refinished 60 1/2 down to my oldest for it's third generation of family use.

See the shiny solder peeking out from the movable sole? It was a broken junker from my uncle's boat shop parts bin. The "sole" is a piece of hacksawed mild steel filed to fit that needed those solder "shims" to bring it perfectly flush....and the knob is an adjusting wheel from something or other that happened to fit the threads.

I was 13 or so when I put it together.

Your plane may have a similar history and value one day.

[Tom LaRussa]

Okay, Okay! I surrender!:p 60 1/2 planes are not quite a dime a dozen and it is nice to rescue planes from oblivion
Okay, well, you're forgiven then, but watch it in the future, mister! ;) :p



... if you need to buy brazing supplies and a stainless dentists spatula then do a fair amount of tune up to bring it back to standards then it might be cheaper to hunt for a new one.:)
Yeah, you gotta point there. The "Fusion Silver Braze ground in flux" from Brownells is going to be more than $30 with shipping. Plus I only have a propane torch, so I don't know if I can even supply enough heat.

But I figure I'll give it a try with stuff I can get my hands on either for free or nearly so before giving up on the poor little booger.

[Bob Smalser]

That tiny bottle of silver braze will probably last you for 20 years of such minor repairs. Bigger repairs require bronze braze and acetylene for economy.

Will take MAPP gas to achieve the heat you need.

[Gary Bingham]

Hey Bob, would that stuff be any good for brazing brass to steel? I've tried brazing something like this (http://home.earthlink.net/~gbingha/images/knob_3.jpg) using flux and some flux coated brazing rods, but I can't seem to get it to work. My first attempt I actually melted the knob. I soldered this one, but it'd be nice to be able to braze it if I really wanted to.

[Bob Smalser]

It's perfect for it.

I recommend it strongly and frequently not because it's inexpensive, but because that ground braze combined with MAPP gas is almost foolproof. Gunsmiths have used it for decades, a little goes a long way and I get several years out of a bottle....and I bet I do a lot more of this than you do.

Acetylene and bronze or silver rod, either coated or dipped in flux require some technique, heat up the parts more than necessary, and acetylene being dirty is an easy path to failure and frustration.

[Gary Bingham]

Thanks for the info. I'll have to get some and give it a try. I kind of figured it would be a lot easier to use, considering that it's ground in flux. By the way, I'm using an oxy-acetylene torch. It's way more torch than I need, but it's all I've got. Maybe one of these days I'll figure out how to use the thing the way it's supposed to be used. I think I have a problem getting it set right for the size parts I'm working on.

[Bob Smalser]

Buy a smaller tip for fine work and also a rosebud tip in a small size for general heating.

I braze with either one depending on the job.

You also need a clean, oxygen-rich flame at real low pressure.

[Gary Bingham]

I don't think I ever tried an oxy-rich flame. A lot of the info. I found searching the internet recommended using a neutral or slightly carburizing flame. I was using a neutral flame. I'm now browsing through the esab handbook for brazing and they recommend using a slightly oxidizing flame too. I think I'll go ahead and read through this manual and go try it again.

[Bob Smalser]

I don't read many books.

Acetylene=soot. Oxygen=clean.

And nothing screws up a braze or solder joint faster than either dirt or burning the flux, which also equals dirt.

That's why MAPP where you can use it is so much easier.

I use a 40-year-old Victor Journeyman (large) torch. With a medium tip and a real soft (2psi) oxygen-heavy flame it brazes just fine.

[Gary Bingham]

Maybe I'll look at getting a MAPP torch then. I think my main problem was burning the flux.

By the way, I normally don't read many books either. I much prefer to learn from either seeing it done, or by doing it myself. But with something like this, it's really the only option that I have for getting started. Unfortunately I don't know anyone nearby that's willing to show me how it's done. The only reason I even have the torch is because it was my dads. But he passed away a little over a year ago, and I wasn't really interested in this kind of stuff when he was still here, so I didn't get the chance to learn from him.

Anyways, thanks again for the help. I think you've steered me in the right direction, so I should be able to figure it out.

[Tom LaRussa]

That tiny bottle of silver braze will probably last you for 20 years of such minor repairs.
Hmmm...

Could I use it (and MAPP) to fill in some pitting on the sole of another plane?

[Tom LaRussa]

Problem: How to braze a repair on my little #60 1/2 without a MAPP gas torch?

Well, it seems that the reason one needs a MAPP torch (vs a propane torch) is that propane torches can't get the metal hot enough to melt the brazing material.

I pondered on this for a while and then it hit me...

Where is it written that I have to use a torch, (properly speaking), at all?

Yep, you guessed it! -- those of you from the deep South, that is -- all I had to do is dig out my turkey fryer!

Fired that puppy up and pretty quick I had the entire front half of that little plane glowing nearly cherry red.

I'm not declaring absolute victory yet though, because I had to make a couple other deviations from Bob's recommendations -- the silver brazing stuff in flux hasn't arrived from Brownells yet, so I had to use silver solder, and I used a screw driver tip instead of the dentists tool to push the stuff around.

But it seemed to work okay. Before I started I heated the oven up as high as it goes and filled a big coffee can with ashes from the BBQ. As soon as I had the repair situated I stuck the plane body into the ashes, put the can in the oven, and then turned the oven off, so that the whole thing can cool down slowly overnight.

I'll let you all know tomorrow how it turned out.

In the meantime, here are some pics of my little "torch." The two different pics of the beast fired up are of an O2 rich and lean mixture, respectively.

[Scott Parks]

Tom, now that's creative thinking!:) Just add some fire brick around it and a hair dryer, and you'll be melting old lawnchairs to make plane bodies!:D

[Tom LaRussa]

Tom, now that's creative thinking!:) Just add some fire brick around it and a hair dryer, and you'll be melting old lawnchairs to make plane bodies!:D
Scott,

I don't know about making my own plane bodies, but I am going to adopt this burner to become a heat treating furnace for making my own chisels (from manufactured tool steel).

Unfortunately, my brazing technique seems to leave something to be desired, as the brazed on patch snapped right off this morning. :mad:

[Jim Dunn]

Fire Hazard, Fire Hazard wood to close to flame. Just kidding you must have a lot of time on your hands this week. How about a little sanding on that bad spot to give some new meat for the solder to grab, just a thought.

[Tom LaRussa]

Fire Hazard, Fire Hazard wood to close to flame.
That's not "wood" -- that's my improvised anvil. ;)



How about a little sanding on that bad spot to give some new meat for the solder to grab, just a thought.
Yeah, I'm thinking sanding or maybe grinding out a slightly bigger piece and filling in with mild steel. First though I'm going to wait until the specific stuff that Bob S recommended arrives from Brownells.

[Bob Hawley]

Looking for a solutiom to a similar problem recently, I found these people. http://www.lockstitch.com/ I haven't had a chance to try out their techniques, but they sure explain some failures I have had in the past, At least they give the best easiest description of the materiels and what it takes to repair them that I have found. Good luck.

[Tom LaRussa]

Looking for a solutiom to a similar problem recently, I found these people. http://www.lockstitch.com/ I haven't had a chance to try out their techniques, but they sure explain some failures I have had in the past, At least they give the best easiest description of the materiels and what it takes to repair them that I have found. Good luck.
Uh, Bob, are you sure you posted the correct URL?

That site is a company that makes machines to sew ladies unmentionables. :o