I can't believe I did that!

[Tom Winship]

Was building the Schwarz sawbench today and was drilling the holes for dowelling the legs to the top. Thought I had 1/2" dowel so drilled 1 hole 1/2" and discovered the dowel was 3/8. No problem change drills, drill second hole and found the bit was actually 7/16". Finally drilled last two holes with 3/8" drill and installed dowels.
Went to local supply, bought 1/2" dowel for first two holes. Got a Forstner bit to redrill holes and drilled them. Oops! Bit was 5/8". Finally got on lathe and turned 5/8" stock for holes.
Think I should drill and plug 3/8" holes with 5/8" stock or quit while I'm ahead?
BTW, bench turned out nice, but is pretty heavy. Have to build second one and think I will use 3/4" stock for shelf.

[george wilson]

Focus focus focus!!!!!!

[Pam Niedermayer]

...Think I should drill and plug 3/8" holes with 5/8" stock or quit while I'm ahead?...

Glad the bench turned out OK. Sounds like it's time for a nap. :)

Pam

[Jim Koepke]

Having found that dowels are not always consistent and bits a little different also it has been my practice to use a simple caliper on the bits and dowels to match them up before starting. It is a bit more to do and all, but it is kind of like measuring twice and cutting once.

jtk

[glenn bradley]

+1 on a nap. When I start doing things like that I try to walk away. Notice I said "try". ;-)

[Jonathan McCullough]

I got a bunch of dowels at the local Borg--one of each size up to 1 inch. I had a caliper type rule in my pocket and measured them--each and every one was mislabeled as being 1/8" larger than it actually was. Maybe you got some of the same lot. When I told the cashier she was unimpressed. Did you get them at Home Depot?

[Randy Briggs]

I got a bunch of dowels at the local Borg--one of each size up to 1 inch. I had a caliper type rule in my pocket and measured them--each and every one was mislabeled as being 1/8" larger than it actually was. Maybe you got some of the same lot. When I told the cashier she was unimpressed. Did you get them at Home Depot?

I've had the same problem with dowel sizes being too large. Bought some 1" maple one from Woodcraft to make wooden screws for my mini-Holtzapfel that I've made for my two young boys. Don't have a lathe but I'll have to get my dad to sand them down for me.

[Tom Winship]

I wish I could blame it on the Borg. This was all Tom's lack of attention when selecting bits. Still thinking about drilling out the 3/8" ones and plugging with 5/8" homemade dowels.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Problem with dowels, also is that they're turned and not always optimal to the grain. When they dry, they sometimes go oblong, or worse!

For critical dowels, get or make a dowel plate, split some stock with the grain and whittle corners off and put through the dowel plate. LN's plate runs about $40 or so, although they're easy enough to make.

[george wilson]

I have to tell you folks,I've done a LOT worse,and spent a LOT more time making the foul up!!!

Early in my machining interest,I was making an indexing plate. They have many rows of holes,spaced concentrically around on a disc. Each row is different,allowing you to divide circles with different numbers of spaces,like when you are making gears.

I turned out a nice brass disc,ornamented it nicely,then drilled the holes. Only,for some unknown reason,I had drilled the holes ALL THE SAME NUMBER in each row. When did I realize how bad I fouled up???? After I had drilled them all.

It might have made a nice sink drain strainer!!

[harry strasil]

I wasn't quite so bad George, I only messed up the spacing on one hole in one circle. Didn't find it out till I had most of the teeth cut in a gear blank. Luckily it stood out like a sore thumb in the gear blank. BTW I made my own indexer and then made the gear and worm to convert it into a dividing head. Not as pretty as some of your work, but it was made from a pair of fabricated angle plates a friend gave me.

indexer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/indexer02.jpg

dividing head conversion.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/dividinghead01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/dividinghead02.jpg

[Marv Werner]

Tom,

I should not be posting here in your thread because I can not remember ever having screwed up even one time on anything. Not once, never, ever....

The operative word here is "remember".

Uhhhh, how do I post this thing? Where is the darned button?

Oh, there it is, way down there. "Post Quick Reply" This is my third try, I was too slow the first two times.

Marv

PS....round things are always deceiving. They always look smaller than they actually are.

[Tom Winship]

George and Junior,
You guys be careful, you might have to explain what an indexing plate is. First machine shop class when I was getting a degree involved milling an octogon on a 1" bar (turned from hot rolled material).

Always thought that was the neatest thing. Now mechanical engineers do not have to take shop courses here, all theoretical stuff. The thing that always made me appreciate those shop courses was I could talk to the machinists.

[harry strasil]

Tom, I started my apprenticeship under my father and uncle when I was 7 in 1951 I think, and the same year I welded on my first plow points I think I was 9. I was given an old scrap piece of 1 inch shaft, a hacksaw with one blade only, a mill bastard file, and a finish file and had to make the first inch of the shaft 1/4" round with the tools provided, the next inch was 7/16" to a side triangular, the next inch was 1/2" square, the next inch was 3/4 hexagon, and the last inch was 15/16 round. My training was old school as when my grandfather was smithing, like most smiths of his time, over half of their time was spent finish filing. I would not even attempt that feat at this time in my life. And I wish I had saved that piece of shaft.

[george wilson]

I recall a student in college cutting gears with a BROWN AND SHARP indexing plate. Kept getting a thin tooth. The teacher,and old retired Navy machinist, got to checking the index plate,and found it had the wrong number of holes on a row on the plate!! A B&S,too! USA made,old time good stuff!!

Now,I'll have to post pictures of an indexing outfit I made for a 6" rotary table later on.

I don't know where my head was when I made that first fouled up plate!! Sometimes you just don't pay attention.

Harry,HOW are you getting used pictures to re-post? I can't use a photo twice. Maybe they're new pics? I've seen your indexer before. Let me know how you are doing that.

[harry strasil]

This may be a little Off Topic, but we are talking about drilling holes. As a Blacksmith I was often required to drill holes thru the collars of sprockets and other assorted things exactly in the center. After many time consuming set ups in my bridgeport mill, I happened to come up with the idea of using some of the short cut offs from the ends of shafting and set then up in my indexing jig and drilled a series of different sized holes dead center a short distance apart and rotating the shaft a little bit. Then putting them all on a large hairpin made of oxy/acet welding rod and hanging them on the wall near the drill press.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/drillingjigs.jpg

Now when ever I needed a dead center hole in a collar,sprocket, sleeve, etc. I would drill the first hole, insert the right sized shaft at the right sized hole and drill down thru the hole in the shaft to get the other hole dead center. FWIW

[Tom Winship]

And I wish I had saved that piece of shaft.[/QUOTE]

Junior,
That piece of hot rolled about 12" long, we started out turning to 1" dia., Then milled with 8 sides, and turned down further to make a handle for a drill press which we built. I still have this in the workshop. Have never really used it because of babbet bearings.

[harry strasil]

I remember going to conventions where us older experienced fellers sat around a table and discussed our mistakes, that was our way of learning and hoping that we could maybe save one of the others making the same mistake. Invariabely one or two of our newest and youngest members would chime in with, " I NEVER make mistakes". I remember one old smith about 90 years old, who would look them straight in the eye and say, "Sonny, if you have never made a mistake, you are either not doing anything or are too dumb to see them", That usually got a red face in response. Experience is one heck of a lot of mistakes. The first time you make it, its called experience, the second time I called them DAA's (Dumb A-- Attack's).

Rant over. TG

[harry strasil]

Tom, I think you have hit on my problem, maybe I can get George to repour some of the Babbet Bearings in my back, hip, knee and shoulder joints. LOL

[ray hampton]

Tom, I started my apprenticeship under my father and uncle when I was 7 in 1951 I think, and the same year I welded on my first plow points I think I was 9. I was given an old scrap piece of 1 inch shaft, a hacksaw with one blade only, a mill bastard file, and a finish file and had to make the first inch of the shaft 1/4" round with the tools provided, the next inch was 7/16" to a side triangular, the next inch was 1/2" square, the next inch was 3/4 hexagon, and the last inch was 15/16 round. My training was old school as when my grandfather was smithing, like most smiths of his time, over half of their time was spent finish filing. I would not even attempt that feat at this time in my life. And I wish I had saved that piece of shaft.



did the smitty spent the other half of his time making his files

[harry strasil]

No, but he often sharpened the dull ones, if he had any spare time, he and helpers if he had any would make bolts, nuts, rivets and sometimes hinges and horseshoe nails to build up stock, way back things were very expensive to have shipped in. It was just common sense to make stock to keep help busy. $.50 to $1.00 a day was a lot of money back then.