CL Table Saws - Delta Uni vs. PM66 - Your thoughts?

[David Hou]

Hello – I’m new to this forum and relatively new to woodworking but been a long time lurker just reading and learning from you all so thanks!

There are two table saws that I’m looking at in the NH area which I have found on CL which look promising. The person selling apparently buys used equipment, refurbishes and re-sells them.

The unisaw is a late 70s model from a one man custom shop with new bearings, belts, rewired and comes with a jet-lock fence. The asking price is $600.
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/1961123555.html

The Powermatic 66 comes from a contractor in the area and has new bearings, belts, and motor. He has installed a new Delta 2hp 1 phase 220-volt motor and it comes with a Biesemeyer fence.
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/1961133721.html

I’ve never had the privilege of working with either of these saws but have heard and read good reviews of both. Can anyone give me some pointers as to which on the surface looks like the better machine and what I should be looking for or questions that I should be asking when I see them in person?

Thanks in advance!

[Kyle Kaldor]

If it were me, I'd definitely go with the Powermatic. The Biesemeyer fence is much better than the jet-lock fence. I believe those usually came on the older and lower priced Delta's. In my opinion, the fence somewhat makes the saw. Just my $.02

[Cary Falk]

I would go with the PM. It has a better fence for not much more. You will probably want to replace the fence on the Uni. The PM66 is rumored to be a little beefier. I have no experience with a PM66. I was a Uni owner in a past life. The Uni is right tilt. The PM66 is Left tilt, if that matters any.

[Rick Pettit]

The bigger motor on the delta is what would interest me. For the extra 250 you can almost pay for a fence upgrade. Delta motor on a Powermatic doesn't seem right to me. I don't like piecing a saw together. Both are good saws and I am partial to the Delta because I have one just like it. Right tilt is no big deal. If you have always used one a left tilting blade will take some time to get used to.

[Jerome Hanby]

Not sure what significance it may have, but I see the Powermatic 66s on my local CLs in a pretty steady stream. I almost never see a Unisaw (that's the reason I drove to Nashville to get mine).

Not sure if that means Powermatic sold a lot more saws down here or if the Delta users never turn theirs over...

[Dale Chinn]

Both the Delta and PM will likely serve you well.

I agree with most responders. I would suggest you do some research on buying used table saws and be prepared to check each table top for flatness and to ensure they can be tuned properly and the saw actually works properly. Regardless of which saw you purchase, the idea is to get one that runs, can be tuned and will hold those settings. If you have a "woodworking friend who knows how to check out a saw, it may be worthwhile to ask if he/she would help with checking the saw out. There is nothing more frustrating than have a saw that does not cut square consistently.

Dale

[Travis Porter]

I too like the PM. If you go look at it, I suggest taking a decent straight edge and checking for table flatness and also make sure there is no play in the arbor.

[Paul Steiner]

I have a unisaw at home and a pm66 at work. They are very similiar in quality and it would be hard to rank them 1 and 2. My purchasing decision would be based on the fence, power source, model year, condition, tilt, and accessories with the saw. I personally think the Biesmeyer fence is the best fence you can get. I am always going to choose the saw with the biesmeyer fence. Next I prefer left tilt then power, I prefer 3 phase but I have a converter already. A good blade or guard would be a bonus.

[Van Huskey]

Complete toss-up. I would look at both and buy the one that is in best condition.

[Carroll Courtney]

I did not know that a Delta motor would fit a PM66 which has a C-face frame and the Delta has a pivit point type mount,if we'll talking older models.Either way,I would also check to see if motors are american made and it would be insult to mount a non-american made motor on either saw again we're talking 90's through 50's.I also have both and I prefer the 66 by just a splinter.Like the other poster stated,the bis. fence is by far better than anyother.Post some dang pics so we can be envious;)---Carroll
Welcome to the forum

[David Hou]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and opinions! It is a bit of a toss-up... Hopefully one will hit me in the gut when I see them in person. The seller did tell me that the Biesemeyer fence on the PM66 was a bit "beat up" but didn't really elaborate beyond that so we will have to see.

Not to start a whole other conversation but as I was telling my other half about going out to see these two saws over the weekend, she asks me if I've looked at the SawStop units which she has seen in some of the woodworking magazines that I have lying around! The SS contractor saw is already more than we can afford at this time, though seems like a solid unit from everything that I've read though would be great from a piece of mind standpoint for a relative newbie such as myself...

Anyways, hopefully I'll get to see them in action in the next two days. Will post some pictures and give you guys some followup!

[Chip Lindley]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and opinions! It is a bit of a toss-up... Hopefully one will hit me in the gut when I see them in person. The seller did tell me that the Biesemeyer fence on the PM66 was a bit "beat up" but didn't really elaborate beyond that so we will have to see.

Not to start a whole other conversation but as I was telling my other half about going out to see these two saws over the weekend, she asks me if I've looked at the SawStop units which she has seen in some of the woodworking magazines that I have lying around! The SS contractor saw is already more than we can afford at this time, though seems like a solid unit from everything that I've read though would be great from a piece of mind standpoint for a relative newbie such as myself...

Anyways, hopefully I'll get to see them in action in the next two days. Will post some pictures and give you guys some followup!

David, you are lucky to have this delimma, and this choice. It IS a bit of a toss-up, IF the saws are both in decent operating and cosmetic condition. One more HP with the Unisaw; a better fence on the PM. The deciding factor for me would be inclusion of the Biesemeyer on the PM66. There is not much to "beat up" on a Biesemeyer; only the laminate-covered ply fence faces. Those can be replaced. I consider that a non-issue, and just part of purchasing a TS which has been in use.

I have both these TSs, and the PM66 is a heavier saw. AND, a left-tilt saw, which I prefer. But, I would never be insulted to "make-do" with a Unisaw.

Both are light-years ahead of TSs available at your local BigBox stores. And, IMO, both are light-years ahead of SawStop's lightest, cheapest model, which is still unaffordable! I survived being a newbie with a brand new Crapsman TS in the 70's. You will survive very nicely, using common sense and forethought, with either of these nice, commercial-grade tablesaws.

IMHO, Go for the PM66! A 2hp TS is nothing to sneeze at in a home shop! I doubt you will ever suffer from any lack of power. And you already have a heavy-duty and accurate rip fence included.

[Stephen Cherry]

I would skip both of them. There is no reason to buy a cabinet saw that doesn't have the fence that you like, or has been used professionally, particularly if the bearings and motor have needed to be replaced.

There reason is that there are enough lightly used saws out there that if you are a little patient you will see a regular stream. Plus, in my opinion, there is no need to deal with a speculator who buys used machines, patches them together a little and resells them. Deal with the owner of the machine.

You may need to drive a little, but it's a machine that will last a long time, so you want a good one.

[Chip Lindley]

I would skip both of them. There is no reason to buy a cabinet saw that doesn't have the fence that you like, or has been used professionally, particularly if the bearings and motor have needed to be replaced.

There reason is that there are enough lightly used saws out there that if you are a little patient you will see a regular stream. Plus, in my opinion, there is no need to deal with a speculator who buys used machines, patches them together a little and resells them. Deal with the owner of the machine.

You may need to drive a little, but it's a machine that will last a long time, so you want a good one.

I take offense to your comments, since I do rehab a few machines from time to time and resell them. I feel I've done the buyer a service by cleaning up an otherwise decent machine and adjusting it.

Bearings replaced? FYI, bearings are replaced in many commercial shops on a schedule. No surprise breakdowns that way. If bearings have been replaced, that is a good thing! One less major operation to perform after taking possession. Then, consider the newbie owner that never quite gets it that the saw sounds or acts funny, but they keep using it anyway. But, it's all still shiny on the outside, but perhaps galled on the inside!

Motor replaced? Perhaps it had a 3-phase motor prior. Much easier to sell a single-phase saw to the general public. Smart guy! Suppose the prevous motor did fry. A 2hp replacement is quite adequate, assuming it is a commercial-duty motor, and not a Chinese boat anchor.

Unlike CarFax, there is no SawFax! Anybody can represent themselves as the owner of a machine if they have run one piece of wood through it. If a seller proves to be totally unknowlegeable about His (or her) machine, red flags go up pretty quick, and low-balling is emminent.

Be a little Patient? I can count on both hands the PM66s advertised within a half day drive of Mid Missouri, within the past four years. I missed one very nice one (lack of funds) but certainly scarfed up the next one at auction, 70 miles away! Unisaws appear more frequently, and in varied states of repair. Many are 3-phase.

There are many who are just plain wary of older machines. They wish they could afford to buy new. Because a machine is represented as lightly used, is no guarantee it will have more longivity than one from a commercial shop. One still has to know what to look for, and feel, and hear.

I suppose the bottom line is, buyer beware. Do your homework, and know what it will take to get the machine running well. There are many gray areas for the uninitiated when considering used equipment. (no Delta pun intended) But, often newer is not necessisarily better, and all that glitters is not gold. (no Powermatic Pun intended)

[Norman Hitt]

I would highly prefer the PM 66, but NOT for $850 with a 2 hp DELTA motor, (which IIRC is an Asian motor). I know prices vary across the country, but there have been too many for sale with a 3 hp Baldor motor that until recently, were the standard issue motor, and several have been cheaper than this one.

[Stephen Cherry]

I take offense to your comments, since I do rehab a few machines from time to time and resell them. I feel I've done the buyer a service by cleaning up an otherwise decent machine and adjusting it.



Chip, I certainly meant no offense to you personally. I was expressing my opinion, which I am entitled to, that I would skip both of these saws. There were plenty of unisaws that were sold to hobbiests that there is no reason to buy one off the plant floor unless it is really cheap. Personally, I bought my unisaw, which was almost like new, for 900 dollars, with the Beisemyer fence. I sold it for exactly that price also.

I like old equipment also, but it needs to be cheap. For example, I just bought two delta hd shapers for 350 dollars, including a few extra motors.

My used buying advice: watch craigslist everyday using search engine, (such as search tempest). Wait for your machine to pop up. Wait for the listing to age, maybe a week. Look, and make a reasonable offer.