Powermatic AntiGloat

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

OK after my Powermatic Joiner fiasco I decided to give Powermatic another try when the 18-inch Variable speed Drill press when on sale. Model 2800.

All I can say is that if you are looking for a large drill press I would not consider this one.

First lets look at a few of the features.

- Very large woodworking table with extensions
- Included Fence
- Variable speed 400-3000 RPM
-Laser indicator
-Dual LED spot lights
-18" Swing

While all the features make the tool seem like a great deal overall it suffers from poor quality control and I have to say its the worst china tool I have ever owned.

Lets take a look at the problem areas.

1. Manual stinks. Very basic instructions does not even tell you how to install the table extensions. Anther example is that it says for exiive vibration you may need to tension or replace the belt. However there are no instructions for this. Keep in mind this is a variable speed drill press and the belt system is not simple.

2. Base is warped. I have to use shims to kee the thing from wabbleing.

3. Table Tilt Detents do not work. Very difficult to get set properly. Takes so long to setup that I will never use the tilt.

4. Vibration. At speeds grater than 600 RPM the thing vibrates so much that the chuck has poped off a few times.

5. Runout at about .005 at the spindle

6. Table is pitted mared so bad that it scratches any wood that slides across the table.

7. Fenc can not be made to be square with the table. While it looks good in the magazines and on line its useless.

8. Stop block is not square and loose. I cant seem to get it tight.

9. Table rack is stiff and does not swivle properly with the table no mater what the tension is on the collar.

10. Table binds when lowering.

11. Lots of noise comeing from inside the belt hatch.


Things that do work are the laser lines. I have to say they are spot on. The dual LED lights is kind of nice but not very bright.


I have a 12" Ryobi variable speed that runs smother and has less issues and cost a fraction. I also have owned a few large Harbor Frieht drill presses that were built better than this thing.






Never again Powermatic!.

[Van Huskey]

I have commented on this DP several times. You hit the nail on the head with QC, there some of these that are darn near perfect and some are a train wreck. My advice has been only purchase one you can inspect before you buy, period. This goes for EVERY Asian import DP I have checked out, Delta, SC, Grizzly, Jet and PM suffer from an average 50% unacceptable runout. If you have to order one sight unseen the best bet by a small margin is the Delta 17-959, I have only been hands on with two of the new 18-900 so it may be better...

This all said I plan on getting the PM2800 because if you cherry pick, it can be a great DP and comes closest to what I want, this will be my plan until I get a better read on the 18-900, though it isn't as close to my perfect DP if the QC shows as better I may go that way. This is all moot if I find a PM 1150 VS...

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Well if I can get Powermatic to send me a new table, fence, and belts I think I can work with what I got. I will giv PM a call in the next couple of days.


They still owe me a Jointer Fence.

[Paul McGaha]

Michael,

Good luck with this. Maybe Powermatic will send those guys from Winchester to fix it. From what I remember you liked what they did for your jointer. I was thinking that if I ever needed to have one of my tools serviced I would use them.

Really sorry to hear of this. I guess I've been lucky with my pieces from Powermatic.

It seems that with all the manufacturers you can get a perfect tool or you can get one with some issues.

Hope this goes well for you and you dont have to spend too much time getting it resolved.

PHM

[Jeff Monson]

Too bad to hear, I've read alot of mixed reviews on this drill press. I went with a delta for that very reason.....but the rest of my powermatic tools I have really liked. The fit and finish is second to none on my bandsaw, tablesaw, shaper, dust collector. Keep us posted on what they do for you.

[Neil Brooks]

As a guy who bought two IOA (Inoperable On Arrival) Grizzly tools, I feel your pain.

I try really hard to remind myself that -- while it truly sucks to be the one who gets that occasional bad one -- they're selling a fair NUMBER of tools, so ... even a small PERCENTAGE of QC issues CAN translate into a fair NUMBER of faulty machines.

I surely would call them. For me, Grizzly bent over backwards to make the machines work.

I'm guessing PM will do the same for you.

Good luck !

[Bill Huber]

So if this is an AntiGloat would the reply be "You Blow"

I hate to see you spend all that money and then have a tool that is not very good. I also hate to see the Powermatic name go down.

[Travis Porter]

I have the same drill press, and although a big upgrade from the shop fox I had, I agree it does have some issues. Bad part is I don't know what would be a good upgrade from this model for say under $1500......

[David Handsman]

I just read the thread re the DP. What would you propose as the best bet for a reasonable DP for less than $1000?

[glenn bradley]

I am starting to think that people do not read the experiences of others with this machine. I assume you plan to return it as many others have done(?). I would not pay $900 for that sort of quality if I were you. There are other (although not many) fish in the sea.

[Chris Tsutsui]

Wow, what terrible first impression on that powermatic. Seems like PM isn't the "gold" standard anymore. It's really a shame to buy something only to be dissapointed with it upon first use...

Where are all the made in Europe drill presses that can become the new "premium" standard. :D

[Ruhi Arslan]

So if this is an AntiGloat would the reply be "You Blow"
:D:D:D:D
Now, that IS funny! Thanks for the good laugh.

[Gary Radice]

Well if I can get Powermatic to send me a new table, fence, and belts I think I can work with what I got. I will giv PM a call in the next couple of days.


They still owe me a Jointer Fence.

And how will that solve the vibration problem?

[Mike Heidrick]

They still sell Steel City drill presses?

[Steve knight]

a mill drill may be the way to go. far less runout and far more sturdy and you can mill with it.
the only not to worry about on that drill press is getting the fence straight. it does not matter on a drill press. it could be skewed 45 degress and it would be fine.

[Will Overton]

They still sell Steel City drill presses?

< $600

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products/20520/20520_closeup.jpg

[george wilson]

I never liked Powermatic even when they were made in USA. In college,we had to send back a brand new PM table saw. the blade refused to go down smoothly. Just went down in big steps,BUMP BUMP BUMP. Poor quality control even in 1959.

[John Stan]

Sorry to hear about your drill press. I also had a bad experience with Powematic. This was on my 15HH planer. Never again will I buy Powermatic. Worse, they did not stand behind their product

[Mike Heidrick]

Yep, thats the one I own Will. Looks pretty plain Jane compared to the Pm2800 but I know I paid less than $475 for mine and it is a slower feed rate, super heavy and stable (get help mounting that head), split head to always adjust for play, 6" quill travel, no vibration to speak of, 3/4hp rated motor, and little to no noticeable run-out in my wood and steel projects. I also added a laser, vise and my own table and fence. no tach but that will be solved with a $25 photo eye tach from VXB that was free with some bearings I ordered. Just another option if folks want a cheaper one.

[Dan Karachio]

I can only hope the people from PM read this forum (what else would they read to get consumer feedback?). Spotty reviews and reported issues of quality control kept me from buying their bandsaw and I had one practically in my hot little hands, but I was not willing to take a chance.

If you make things that weigh 5 - 20 pounds, then people might be willing to buy one and take a chance, but if your products weigh hundreds of pounds and are a major effort to move, then people are going to be far less likely to take a chance. Is this rocket science? Powermatic, Laguna... can't seem to figure this out. I guess the level of business IQ in some companies is quite low.

[Phil Thien]

Yep, thats the one I own Will. Looks pretty plain Jane compared to the Pm2800 but I know I paid less than $475 for mine and it is a slower feed rate, super heavy and stable (get help mounting that head), split head to always adjust for play, 6" quill travel, no vibration to speak of, 3/4hp rated motor, and little to no noticeable run-out in my wood and steel projects. I also added a laser, vise and my own table and fence. no tach but that will be solved with a $25 photo eye tach from VXB that was free with some bearings I ordered. Just another option if folks want a cheaper one.

If you ask me that Steel City is the press to beat in the import market.

The first time I heard it came without a laser but WITH a split head I knew it would be a winner.

I don't own one, though.

[Steven Satur]

I can't understand why you guy keep buying this import crap. You are much better off looking for a used machine built before 1980. Some of the machines I have bought over the years have run for 50+ years and still run like the day they were built. I picked up a Rockwell Walker Turner floor DP for $100.00 and all I did was repaint it. Runs exellent.

Steve.

[Will Overton]

I can't understand why you guy keep buying this import crap.
Steve.

Mostly because the majority of it is just fine. I for one don't want to repair or even paint old equipment, I just want to work with wood. I don't want to spend time looking for and then examining the find to see if it's worth it. Mostly, I don't want to talk about some of the drill presses I've owned, I just want one ... so far that's working out. :)

But, we fortunately have choices and can each make our own.

[Joe Leigh]

Listening to the tone of this thread one gets the impression that everything Powermatic makes is junk and everything made before 1970 is bulletproof.The lack of objectiveness in that supposition doesn't say much for the credibility of some who have posted here.

"My 50 year old drill press, blah blah blah......"
Give me a break. That drill press ever break down? of course not. How about replacement parts? available? sure they are...customer support? Huh, what's that?
Selective memory is a wonderful thing.

[Steven Satur]

OK. Look at how many people Gloat about the machine that they just got. Then later down the line, they are saying that the tables are not flat, the motor burned up, this is wrong, that is wrong, then how hard it is to resolve the problem with little customer support. You are saying about parts avail. Look at Delta. After 10 years they don't stock parts for their machines. Steel City. Wasn't there talk about them closing up awhile back. Who is going to back that up?
This is the demise of the USA

[Van Huskey]

The reality is the market demanded inexpensive tools and the manufacturers gave us those tools and we whine that they aren't perfect. How many Grizzly G0690 posts don't mention the fence is not flat? There are tools out there that are made VERY well but most of us won't or can't pay the prices they command. We would rather pay far less than or fathers and grandfathers would have had to pay for a table saw but at some point we have to accept that they will not be perfect. Old iron is not a perfect solution either, it comes with its own set of issues those that don't see them have rose tinted glasses on. If you want great out of the box tools go to companys like Felder, Minimax and Northfield just understand that these great tools come with a very high buy in price. If we buy a Asian import tool I think we have to accept we are rolling the dice and it may take some time to make the machine serviceable.

[Will Overton]

Van,

Something you said about 'great out of the box' has me wondering if all those 50 year old tools were 'great out of the box', or did they pass through a dozen hands over the years with each new owner trying to make them a little better. After 50 years of tweaking, voilà, the perfect tool. :)

[Van Huskey]

Van,

Something you said about 'great out of the box' has me wondering if all those 50 year old tools were 'great out of the box', or did they pass through a dozen hands over the years with each new owner trying to make them a little better. After 50 years of tweaking, voilà, the perfect tool. :)


I have thought about this also in the past. A couple of the old timers I talked to seriously about this gave me the distinct impression that they may have had the same amount of problems we do today. I did gather thay had different types of issues for instance it seems their castings and iron in general was much better than what we get but things like alignment out of the crate and bearings etc often required some tweaking. I think it also bears noting that most of those machines in the past were tweaked by people getting paid to setup/tweak/use them unless me for instance that sees setup as a PITA as opposed to just another day at work. Another thing to consider is a lot of the older machines that were junk either a one off lemon or just bad design or execution has made its way back to the smelter.

[Myk Rian]

I have a very simple solution to the Asian tools.
Old iron

[Joe Leigh]

Good points. It just gets a little old hearing the same "olde timey" rhetoric every time someone complains about some new Grizzly with a table that's out by .003".

Consider this; how many circa 1970 hobbyists, small shop owners, etc, ever even used a dial indicator? or owned one?
How many had straight edges accurate to within .001" per ft? These items are pretty much staples in today's businesses and home shops.

[Mark Maleski]

Steel City. Wasn't there talk about them closing up awhile back. Who is going to back that up?
This is the demise of the USA

Just a very minor point against the quote above (I have no position on the overall argument): there was a RUMOR about Steel City closing on this forum and others. That rumor seems to be complete BS (there was nothing backing up the rumor, and Steel City seems to be going along without a hitch). If you wish to demonstrate the demise of the USA, you'll need to pick a better example than that one.

[Will Overton]

That rumor seems to be complete BS (there was nothing backing up the rumor, and Steel City seems to be going along without a hitch).

I agree the rumor was happily false. There was some reason it was started. Steel City was, for a time, unable to deliver product. My local WoodCraft told me last month that they hope to start selling them again. I was in to pick up a SawStop and there wasn't a single Steel City product on the floor. They used to have their Table saws, jointer, dust collectors, etc. on the floor.

A portion of their top management jumped ship and went to General. So to say without a hitch is very optimistic. But their future today looks a lot better than a year ago. I hope they come back stronger than ever.

[Steven Satur]

For one thing I am not a old timer, Its just that every time I bought a Asian machine, I got burned. I never had a reason to check a table for flatness, but when i bought a Grizzly jointer. and I can see by eye that the fence had a dog leg in it, I checked & it was about 3/8 of a inch. I contacted Grizzly at the time & they said "Put the fence on a flat surface and jump on it, that will straighted it". Right. When it breaks in two, then what. A Powermatic 15" planer that the add said "Smooth out feed roller", came with fine searations that left marks in the wood, when I contacted Powermatic, they said they sell a rubber roller for the planer, that won't leave marks for $250.00. Would not help with the price, even thou it was advertised as a smooth roller. It never planed right, snipping, no matter how it was adjusted. A Delta DJ20 jointer with a big made in USA tag on it, but if you read the tag, the base was made in USA, the jointer was Asian. I have to admit it, that was not a bad machine. As for not having a straight edge to check for .001 back then. I think they were building furniture back then, not watches.

[Van Huskey]

Just a very minor point against the quote above (I have no position on the overall argument): there was a RUMOR about Steel City closing on this forum and others. That rumor seems to be complete BS (there was nothing backing up the rumor, and Steel City seems to be going along without a hitch). If you wish to demonstrate the demise of the USA, you'll need to pick a better example than that one.


Actually, his point was better than you seem to be aware of. If you take a hard look at SC now you will see how much less "American" it is than it was...

[george wilson]

As I mentioned,in 1959 we had to send back a brand new Powermatic.

I have been perfectly happy with my Bridgewood 8" jointer,and 15" planer. I have had plenty of opportunity to buy old American machines,but haven't seen the need to play musical machines. Of course,my machines were made in Taiwan.

When I was younger,the choices of machinery were very limited,and the prices of the American machinery was very high. No imports then. I paid $400.00 for my 10" Dewalt table saw when I was making $2.50 an hour in about 1964. Today,that saw's equivalent price would be out of sight. By my last salary,that would be nearly $4000.00 in equivalent time.

I paid $125.00 for my Craftsman drill press ON SALE,still making $2.50 per hour.

I also have a Taiwan made Bridgeport clone vertical mill,and a 16" x 40" Grizzly metal lathe. They were bought in 1986,and have been so good that I have passed up a number of genuine Bridgeports(the newer ones are made in Singapore,though,$13,000.00). My Grizzly lathe is exceedingly accurate. I haven't seen the need to replace it either.

Steven,if you have had a Grizzly jointer out that much,you have been very unlucky,indeed. Just before I retired,I replaced a 1950's 8" Delta jointer with a new Grizzly,the cheapest 8" they had. In fact,it was on closeout. It was extremely accurate,much better than the old Delta,whose tables had gotten JUST worn enough that they were bothersome,and couldn't quite be gotten in alignment. The Grizzly WAS a Chinese machine,too. I still would hesitate to buy a Chinese metal lathe( too heavy to send back easily,and much more complex).

I think we should be grateful for these imported machines enabling us to have well equipped shops. As an older person,I well remember the days when everything was out of reach,and all things American weren't always the greatest.

[Will Blick]

sorry about your PM2800.... this is frustrating when buying a new tool.... we all have been there.

However, in all fairness, I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head.... the market demands tools with lots of features, for very low retail prices. This is what separates many of these tool makers from the German made machines which are sold mostly to commercial or wealthier hobbiest.

When I look at todays machines and the retail selling prices, I marvel how these makers can sell them at these prices. Something has to give. And the most obvious areas are, sloppy (or no) tolernace specs. and quality control. As mentioned previously, some of these old machines floating around probably benefited greatly from years of tweaking to bring them within spec.

You will also note, most of the hobbiest type machines do not offer specifications on flatness, run out, etc. It's my guess, it's to risky.

To have a good QC procedure, would potentially double the price of the machine, so its not cost effective, the maker would loose market share with higher prices. So the maker passes on this responsiblity to the buyer, and we become the QC arm of the manufacturer. Sometimes you get lucky, you get a good machine, other times, you end up doing the QC work the maker preferably should have done. So the most you can often hope for is at these mid price machines, is how well the maker stands behind their products after the sale, sure it's a major PITA, but it keeps prices down, and that is what the market is calling for.

I have bought some high end Gold Machines... am I happy with them? For the cost, yes.... but is there a bunch of issues that annoy me? You bet. The casters on my PM2000 never worked right, they would not always engage, so I built a new base to take the factory casters out of play. The wooden extension table came so warped, it went into the trash. The riving knife is poorly designed and if not careful, can make contact with the blade.

I bought a new WHITE Italian 20" band saw, the table top had areas I could put .05" finger gauges under....while in a recent magazine article, I read Craftsman Band saw tops were within .003" flatness... Craftsman beats the Italian BS's? huh .... so I corrected it, when I sell the BS, the new owner will rave how fat the top is :-) Of course, for the WHITE BS's, you pay for the column mass.

I think if I ever upgraded machines, I would either opt for the higher end German machines (if I hit the lottery first) or just learn when I start-up a machine, I must spend a day or two with it, check everything, and be on the phone with maker to make the machine perform up to standards. (whatever that is) It makes me not want to buy new machines :-)

A previous poster mentioned buying a machine that you see first, probably on showroom floor. In an ideal world, that would be nice... however, in this internet "order on the cheap" world we live in, very few products you can go see the one you will get delivered, so its a crap shoot. Hence why a good used machine is not such a bad idea, assuming you have enough general knowledge to check the machine for a few of the most significant performance aspects for that machine.

[Will Blick]

BTW, keep us posted on how PM handles this situation.

I always wonder why PM reps are not active on forums like this... a few major ww forums represent a significant amount of the customer base that they are competing for. This is one reason I always try to buy Grizz first, the fact the owner of the company cruises these forums says a lot about his committment to satsified customers. I have had good luck with Grizz machines, although I do buy ther high-end models. I also feel confident that Papa Griz will make any do what it takes to make a sale right....Kudos to Papa Grizz for being a hands-on owner.

[Gregg Feldstone]

Is that the Steel City 20525 variable speed unit?
If so, what is everyone's opinion about the low speed only going down to 500 rpm? Is that a big drawback for metal work?
Can you give me a link the the photo eye tach you mentioned?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Here is the deal Powermatic will not do any thing. They want me to take it to a service center. If I have to take it anywhere I am takeing it back to woodcraft. where I purchased it.

I swear I will never again purchase a Powermatic tool. If I are going to purhcase cheap chineese tools I would be better off getting them from Griz or Harbor Frieght.

I do know with Harbor Frieight if you are not satisfied they will send a truckout to pick up the tool.

From this point on Powermatic is no better than any of the other Chineese importers. I spend well over $10K a year on tools and they will never get another penny from me and I will make a personal quest to let everyone know it.

[glenn bradley]

So I think I'm hearing another unsatisfied PM2800 owner trying to warn others . . . I don't know that you can smear PM's name completely as they do have some winners, so does Jet, so does Grizzly, so does Craftsman for that matter. Shop the tool, not the name. The PM2800 just happens to be one of their "oops" tools. I think every "maker" has at least one. Just my .02.

[Dan Hintz]

You are making me more and more glad I've decided to pass up the current sale on the PM2800. I'm now seriously looking at the Steel City DP as the other variable speed Jet I had my eye on just doesn't seem to be that good of a deal for $1,700.

[Will Overton]

So I think I'm hearing another unsatisfied PM2800 owner trying to warn others . . . I don't know that you can smear PM's name completely as they do have some winners, so does Jet, so does Grizzly, so does Craftsman for that matter. Shop the tool, not the name. The PM2800 just happens to be one of their "oops" tools. I think every "maker" has at least one. Just my .02.

But there is the matter of how a company stands behind an oops product.

I had a good experience with Powermatic, but it was with shipping damage that they could bill to the trucker.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

It would be one thing if they would offer to send someone out to fix the problems. They wont so as far as I am concerned they DO NOT stand behind their products.

This is the my second large powermatic purchase and the second one that I have had major issues. So thats not very good in my book.


The thing is I think the main thing that would fix the machine is a new belt. Lots of vibration as one of the belts has buldges in it. But no instructions on how to get a new belt or even how to change it. I cant figure what to loosen. I dont think its user serviceable as they want me to take the beast to a service center.

FYI I dont think the manual is 100% for this machine as it says in the troubleshooting guide that bad belt tension can cause vibration. The answer is to retension the belt. Hmmm I see no way of doing this. It also talks about replaceing the belts in the troubleshooting guide. Not sure how easy this would be concidering the heavy springs holding the variable pulleys in place. Its like its a generic troubleshooting guide for a standard drill press.


Bad Design
Bad Documentation
Bad Customer Service
Bad Company

[Paul McGaha]

Michael,

I am really sorry to hear of all this. I'm very surprised Powermatic isnt doing a better job with the customer service.

At this point I guess you've decided to return the tool and buy from another manufacturer?

PHM

[Dan Hintz]

Michael,

I've found emachineparts.com to have most replacement parts (though the prices can be all over the place, from a few dollars for a pulley to $100 for a belt).

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

The beast was a real pain to put together and I dont relish the thought of boxing it up. If Woodcraft will take it back as a floor modle then I will probably return it.


Oh FYI

The plastic insert is a joke. It flexes so much when drilling small parts it is useless.


This will go down in history as my worst tool purchase. Believe me I have had some bad ones.

[glenn bradley]

The beast was a real pain to put together and I dont relish the thought of boxing it up. If Woodcraft will take it back as a floor modle then I will probably return it.

Not my business but, that's a lot of money to spend to be unhappy. I'm not usually a Delta fan but the 17-959 is reportedly a better machine and hundreds less. No VS but the table goes up and down easily and I change table height many times more than speeds. Just food for thought.

[Will Overton]

Michael,

You shouldn't have to go through this, but could it be they want you to take it to a service center because you don't want to, or can't do anything yourself?

You said there is a bulge in a belt. Did you ask them what it takes to replace it, and if someone could walk you through it?

You said, basically, that you will return it if you don't have to take it apart.

Again, the drill press should have been perfect, but it might be easier for you in the long run if you try to work with them to solve the problem, even though they should be doing it.

[Paul McGaha]

Michael,

I'm guessing you bought the drill press at the Woodcraft in Leesburg. I'm in there about every other week. Seem to be very good people at that store. Maybe they could help you get this resolved.

I'm just not understanding Powermatic's position.

PHM

[Carl Babel]

Michael,

I suggest that you send the link to this thread to your contact(s) at PM. They should read about your experience and the response of the board. Perhaps then, they will realize that they aren't dealing with just one disgruntled customer. If you are lucky, they might also decide to reevaluate their decision about how best to help you out.

[michael case]

Powermatic (AKA, WMH Tool Group) has the worst customer service as far as answering their phones that I have ever experienced. In fairness though I should note that when after a 1/2 to 1 hour they actually do pick up the phone they have never argued about parts that I needed to replace (in one case an an entire bearing and arbor set for a 66) But I have had bad machines from them the vaunted 66 I had ("had" past tense) had a miserably wavy table that was off by a 1/32" It came with damaged bearings. The rack an worm for the tilt were off by 1/4" and could not be aligned. I read post after post reporting, in particular, wavy and warped tables. Well that jives with my expeirence. So does the outrages waits on hold for customer service. I once seriously considered their 8" Parallelogram jointer, but received no answer to my query as to what tolerance they would guarantee on the tables. You know the real answer -they will not guarantee it or even state it. If you had asked me a year ago if I would not only be buying, but recommending Grizzly machines, I would not have belived it. But the jointer I got from Shiraz & co. has dead flat tables. They answer their phones. They take care of their customers. And they are less than half the price. Its too bad about Powermatic. I was wiling to pay for superior quality, but evidently its a one way street - You pay and they do not deliver. Well there goes another one time great American Company. :(

[Joseph Tarantino]

i had similar experiences with walter meier tool group concerning a jet 18" band saw. post #43 said it very well:

Bad Design
Bad Documentation
Bad Customer Service
Bad Company

if i was given a powermatic, jet or wilton tool for free, i'd sell it and buy somehting else. great marketing, just no ability to support their customers or hire tool makers that can produce the products they advertise. as i've said for some time now, long on promise, short on delivery and overpriced.

[Joe Leigh]

Well, there you have it. A handful of bad experiences and "....there goes another one time great company"

I've only had one experience with Powermatic and have no complaints though my saw is only 4 months old. My observations are:

1. Saw delivered ahead of schedule and at the advertised sale price.
2. Saw arrived crated and well protected. Not a single dent or scratch.
3. Saw assembled easily, fit and finish were flawless, instructions were clear and complete.
4. Saw performs perfectly, alignment was a breeze and has not varied. Tolerances exceeded expectations.

As for customer service, I called for some touch up paint for a scratch I made on the fence tube, purely my fault. They sent me a new tube assembly. Free. Next day. And followed it up with a call 2 days later to make sure I received the tube.

I know my experience alone isn't the defining testament to Powermatics's level of quality. Neither are the handful of negative comments posted here.

Care should be taken in making sweeping generalizations about any manufacturer.
Powermatic's track record is what lead me to give them a try and I wouldn't hesitate to make another major purchase from them.

[Paul McGaha]

I agree with you Joe.

You can get very good tools from Powermatic. I have (4).

I've never needed it but I've read several posts describing good customer service from Powermatic also.

It is just my opinion but I think you can get a lemon of a tool from any manufacturer including Powermatic.

What I'm not understanding is where is the customer support in this case? Powermatic sent customer service tech support to the OP's shop in the case of his jointer earlier this year. What is the problem with them sending customer support regarding the drill press? Why wouldnt they? If I were the customer in this case I'd expect it.

PHM

[Jeff Monson]

What I'm not understanding is where is the customer support in this case? Powermatic sent customer service tech support to the OP's shop in the case of his jointer earlier this year. What is the problem with them sending customer support regarding the drill press? Why wouldnt they? If I were the customer in this case I'd expect it.




Maybe powermatic would rather take the tool back than deal with the OP, there are certain customers that cannot be satisfied no matter what.
I have 4 powermatic tools in my shop and they are all great machines, and I have had 2 calls into customer service and both times I was treated great. I'm not a customer that expects a Ferrari with a Kia pricetag.

[Leigh Betsch]

Same issues I had with my PM2800. In fact I had three of them. I posted about my experiences, search if you are interested. The PM service guys and the sales guys wanted to make it right but all they had was more defective drill presses to give me. The problem was the sleeve over the motor shaft had so much runout that it made the machines (all three of them) vibrate like crazy. I bet that the snot nosed marketing pukes at the WMH Tool Group don't even know what runout is. That's what happens when you outsourse all your manufactuing, pretty soon you find out no one at your company has clue about how to fix a problem. At least Gizzly has a knowedgle able guy like Shiraz at the top that actually knows what .001 tir means. I won't buy anything from a marketing company like the WMH Tool Group ever again. In my opinion they have ruined a good old American brand name.

[Greg Portland]

I had to call WMH group to get a new handle for my Jet DP (snapped off during a move) and had zero problems. The phone was answered quickly by a human, they knew what they were talking about, and the part was shipped promptly.

[Ruhi Arslan]

Here is the deal Powermatic will not do any thing. They want me to take it to a service center. If I have to take it anywhere I am takeing it back to woodcraft. where I purchased it.

It sounds like YOU do not want to do anything not PM. They are doing "something" by asking you to take it to a service center just because maybe they already know that there is nothing else can be done by the consumer/owner. In my opinion, this doesn't make them a lump summed "bad company". On the other hand, it would be natural to expect a "good company - with or without Chinese imports" to try to resolve the customer's problem one way or another within reason. Forgive my for asking this but is there a possibility that the CS person you talked to didn't have the ability to listen to your rant that particular day and blew you off in case you were taking your frustration on him/her? It sounds like you were pretty upset from the beginning, understandable by the way, and maybe if you were to re-approach with a different and softer (again, I am emphasizing that I am just guessing based on what you wrote - no intention to mean any disrespect) "help me out here" manner, it may change direction for your satisfaction even if it is too little too late.

Finally, it maybe best to put it back together and return it back since you bought it locally without any shipping involved. No extra cost to you except your wasted time. You can buy yourself other goodies with the leftover money when you buy another Chinese import.


I do know with Harbor Frieight if you are not satisfied they will send a truckout to pick up the tool.I would argue that HF is terrible with their customer support based on my previous experience with them if I were make a sweeping judgment. I bought a motorcycle ramp from HF several years ago. Put it together despite of their most miserably useless instructions compared to any product sold on this side of the pond form any company. I recycled it up and down few times to get the air out form the hydrolic pump. I put my bike on it, lifted it up but it didn't come down. My bike (550lb) stuck up in the air in my garage. When I called the customer support, they suggested that I should take the bike off and try it again. When I explained one more time that the bike is 550lb and I cannot pick it up to try again. He insisted that only way he can help me was once I take the bike off but without being able to offer any suggestions on how to bring it down safely. I had the bike up there till I had purchased ramps and built a wooden contraption to prevent the ramp lifting up on the front end. At the end, they ordered a new pump for me but it was backordered for two to three weeks. Four weeks later, no pump. When I called to check, it was due 21 days later. 22 days alter when I called it was due in 21 days later. We did this about 12 months. By the mean time, after a couple of months, I went to the local HF and explained to the manager what happened. He took the pump of the display model and send me my way home without even asking the non working one. I continued to follow up with the replacement part on the phone. At times, they even told me that it was shipped to me which later on to be told it was due in 21 days. Did I mention that the calls were answered by people named Sam, Joe, Smith, Rick, etc but there was 12 hours time zone difference? And, yes, I did receive a replacement pump sitting in my garage in an unopened box. Local manager didn't want it asked me to keep it in case it fails again. It didn't so far. Does this make the HF horrible company, it was for me at that point in time. I still buy from HF but without expectations. PM should be better than HF one might expect...

[Peter Aeschliman]

I'm not a customer that expects a Ferrari with a Kia pricetag.

To be fair, Powermatic isn't exactly comparable to a Kia. I would say "I'm not a customer that expects a Ferrari with a Mercedes pricetag."

Harbor Frieght is a Kia.

Grizzly, Jet, Asian Lagunas, and Delta are Fords/Chevies.

Powermatic is BMW/Lexus/Mercedes.

Felder, MiniMax, Agazzani are Ferraris.

:) ;)

[Chris Padilla]

Not my business but, that's a lot of money to spend to be unhappy. I'm not usually a Delta fan but the 17-959 is reportedly a better machine and hundreds less. No VS but the table goes up and down easily and I change table height many times more than speeds. Just food for thought.


I've had this one for several years now. Other than a flimsy power switch, it has done very well for me.

[Van Huskey]

My experience parallels Joe, Paul, Jeff and Ruhi's. The thing I find interesting is PM seemed to be willing to take care of the matter by bringing the tool to a service center (a PITA I agree) but if another machine importer sent a shipment of parts for the new owner to fix their own tool there would be myriad posts about how great the customer service was. There just seems to be a double standard at times.


I will echo what I have said before about the PM2800 and all the other sub $1,000 Asian import drill presses, everyone I have looked at has QC issues, overall about 50% of them are good and the rest suffer from excessive runout, not to mention other issues. I feel the key to buying theses DPs is to buy one you can actually pour over before bringing it home. This can be a little bit of an issue BUT worth the trouble IMHO. It may mean spending a little more at a local dealer but a DP is one of the cheapest categories of machines we own. This all said I think the Delta 18-900 may be the press at this price point but I have only been able to be hands on with two, so far they are batting 1.000.

[Travis Porter]

It would be one thing if they would offer to send someone out to fix the problems. They wont so as far

I don't think Powermatic's warranty documentation covers or includes in home/onsite service, and as far as I know most of the equipment manufacturer's do not. I kind of liken it to buying a car. They expect you to bring the car to their service center.

[Dan Hintz]

I kind of liken it to buying a car. They expect you to bring the car to their service center.
When heavy, unwieldy tools grow a set of wheels and I can drive them to be serviced, then we'll talk...

[Paul McGaha]

I dont know, Maybe Travis is right. We choose to own and use these heavy tools. Maybe it is our responsibility to have the ways and means to move them on occasion.

In the case of this drill press, it seems if Michael Simpson can move the drill press to the service center and back when the service center is finished with it his problems are over. Everything else is on Powermatic.

I realize this is not an ideal situation but maybe this is better than him replacing half the parts on the drill press himself. I think I might prefer it.

The quality of the work of the service center will certainly come in to play.

PHM

[Cary Falk]

but if another machine importer sent a shipment of parts for the new owner to fix their own tool there would be myriad posts about how great the customer service was.

And ever PM owner chimes in and says that they should have spent 2x the money on the gold standard so they won't have these the problem. I have seen countless posts where PM sent somebody out to fix a tool, but it does not seem out of line to have to take the drill press to a service center. This DP has received less than stellar reviews since it came out. I am surprised people are still buying it.

[Van Huskey]

And ever PM owner chimes in and says that they should have spent 2x the money on the gold standard so they won't have these the problem. I have seen countless posts where PM sent somebody out to fix a tool, but it does not seem out of line to have to take the drill press to a service center. This DP has received less than stellar reviews since it came out. I am surprised people are still buying it.


I agree and ruminated on this. I suppose the DP may be a tool they consider "portable" dunno just a guess. In this instance PM isn't twice as expensive, in fact it is the cheapest DP that has the feature set. The PM2800 does seem to be one of the weak tools in the current PM line, as I have said I have seen wide variations in QC on it, but have seen the same on a lot of Asian imports DPs (my main focus has been runout). I think this is a machine they chose to include a great feature set but maketing decided they needed a lower price point and they engineered to that leaving a machine that is very compelling on paper but is built to a price point that is too low for their marketing structure. This is definately a caveat emptor machine.

[michael case]

Michael,

You are NOT being unreasonable. If YOU have to load this thing onto a truck. Then You should truck it right back Woodcraft. I personally would have already done so. What nonsense! Do they really expect that anyone is going to lug a machine like this out to their vehicle, load it up, and then, instead of simply returning it to the vendor and saying good riddance, bring it to a some service center and deal with the wait and inevitable half fixes, and re-returns. Come on! Powermatic be real. Anyone in their right mind is going to bring it back to the vendor if they have to bring it anywhere. Michael You were too patient and forgiving to have ever bought another Powermatic in the first place.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I just thought I would let you know where it stands with my drillpress.


1. Powermatic will do nothing. They told me my only option is to take it to a autherized repair center 50 miles away.

2. Woodcraft wont take it back because it is not a stocked item and they had to special order it.



One more thing that cool big monster on/off button on the drill press is starting to fail. I will probably have to replace it soon.


Bottom Line is I am on my own on this one. NEVER NEVER again will I purchase anyghing from powermatic. And that includes JET.



They do not stand behind thier products.

The Drill press is usable as I have been using it. At somepoint down the line I will figure out how to tear down the Variable speed system and change the belts. The funny thing about all this is that if they would have had enough quality control to just turn on the head they would have known one of the belts were bad.

I was the first person to turn on this drill press since it was packed in china.

[Chuck Wintle]

I suggest, for you to get satisfaction, to take it to an authorized service center. It seems to be the only option open to you.

[Callan Campbell]

I just thought I would let you know where it stands with my drillpress.


1. Powermatic will do nothing. They told me my only option is to take it to a autherized repair center 50 miles away.

2. Woodcraft wont take it back because it is not a stocked item and they had to special order it.



One more thing that cool big monster on/off button on the drill press is starting to fail. I will probably have to replace it soon.


Bottom Line is I am on my own on this one. NEVER NEVER again will I purchase anyghing from powermatic. And that includes JET.



They do not stand behind thier products.

The Drill press is usable as I have been using it. At somepoint down the line I will figure out how to tear down the Variable speed system and change the belts. The funny thing about all this is that if they would have had enough quality control to just turn on the head they would have known one of the belts were bad.

I was the first person to turn on this drill press since it was packed in china.
While I sympathize about your troubled machine, Powermatic is giving you an option to have it fixed under warranty, yes? Have you contacted the service center to see about getting it trucked to and from them if you don't want to do it yourself? Sometimes dealing directly with the people who will service it brings some relief that the customer service people at the manuf. were unable to provide.
Since I work in the car business, getting a vehicle weighing several tons to a service place is second nature. Exotic car dealers like Ferrari and Lamborghini are known to flat bed someone's vehicle over a multi-state path to get to the dealer. Some dealers actually own transporter trucks to do just this since warranty money isn't going to pay all the bills. The Powermatic service place may have a deal for you like piggybacking onto someone elses machine pick-up that's nearby.
So, while it's a pain to get the DP moved 50 miles, it's not impossible. Check the fine print of the warranty, they probably covered this in that it's the owners responsibilty for movement of the machine if warranty coverage is needed. Again, not knocking your problem, but until it's looked at under warranty, fixing what ails it is still an unknown. Maybe it's not a simple belt and something more major is needed like bearings or a pulley system.:(

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I seriosly doubt that.


Here is how the senario will play out if I do that.

1. I have to get this top heavy beast into my truck. With a 150lb head its doubtfull I wont do more damage to the thing.

2. I spend a couple hours dropping the thing off.


3. 1-2 weeks later (If I am lucky) I go and spend anther two hours picking it up.

4. I lig it back into the shop only to find that the problems have not been fixed to my satisfaction.


Honastly I am only marignaly happy with the service centers work on my PM joiner.

FYI I have seen the service center. Its a storage room located at a wood mill.

They will pick it up for a fee. I think they said $50 each way. Thats $100 for me to spend to have a brand new tool fixed. In all honasty I feel I am better off living with the vibration and fixing it myself.

IF its something more than something simple I seriously doubt it will be fixed to my satisfaction. This is a lesson learned for me. And powermatic. I will be sure to chime in on each and very post where someone is asking about a powermatic tool.

[Chuck Wintle]

I seriosly doubt that.


Here is how the senario will play out if I do that.

1. I have to get this top heavy beast into my truck. With a 150lb head its doubtfull I wont do more damage to the thing.

2. I spend a couple hours dropping the thing off.


3. 1-2 weeks later (If I am lucky) I go and spend anther two hours picking it up.

4. I lig it back into the shop only to find that the problems have not been fixed to my satisfaction.


Honastly I am only marignaly happy with the service centers work on my PM joiner.

FYI I have seen the service center. Its a storage room located at a wood mill.

Yes that may be true but you should at least let the service center try to make good on the machine. Maybe it is something relatively simple that falls within their skill level? :)

[Joe Leigh]

The funny thing about all this is that if they would have had enough quality control to just turn on the head they would have known one of the belts were bad.
I was the first person to turn on this drill press since it was packed in china.

I'm sure, as many manufacturers will attest, a certain number of units are pulled from the line for inspection. Not every one.
If all we're talking about is a bad belt, why not just accept a replacement belt and take a few minutes to change it?

[Erik Christensen]

I have their PM2700 5 HP shaper with a powermatic 4 wheel feeder.

It is the bomb - easy to change cutters & spindles, the factory digital height gauge makes setups a snap, dust collection with my clearvue is basically perfect unless I climb cut, simple speed changes, fabulous built in mobility, great fence that micro adjusts then stay put, etc etc

it is a better tool than my 8" griz jointer with helical head or my robland slider saw or my jet oscillating drum sander or...

I think that it is not accurate to generically slam any manufacturer - they all make good stuff and crappy stuff - sometimes even in the same product line.

[Dan Karachio]

Very depressing. If anyone from PM is listening, this and other similar stories have steered me away from your products many times and I own the competition. I know you give them all away to the Wood Whisperer and Woodsmith Shop, but until I get that same deal, our paths will never cross.

P.S. My woodcrafts certainly stock this - I see it there all the time at 2 different stores.

[Will Overton]

I seriosly doubt that.


Here is how the senario will play out if I do that.


4. I lig it back into the shop only to find that the problems have not been fixed to my satisfaction.






You mean you wouldn't try it out before you lig it back to the shop?



I asked you a week ago;

"You said there is a bulge in a belt. Did you ask them what it takes to replace it, and if someone could walk you through it?"


If so, what was their reply?

If not, it would seem you don't really want this fixed.

[Dan Hintz]

Woodcraft wont take it back because it is not a stocked item and they had to special order it.
Maybe this is on a store by store basis, but the Woodcraft in Baltimore keeps it in stock. When I was there last week they had one in a box and one on the floor.

[Steven Satur]

I would put that drill press in the back of my truck with a sign, drive to Woodcraft and park in the front of their store. Put on the sign that WOODCRAFT SOLD A DEFECTIVE MACHINE AND DOES NOT STAND BEHIND THE PRODUCTS THEY SELL. Have them call the Powermatic Rep. and tell him what is going on. More then likely they will take it back.

Goodluck.
Steve.

[jon chandler]

I remember having issues with the PM switches they put on their late model table saws; think it was the 2000.

I maintain that most are better off buying an older press (that they or someone else refurbed). Some may cite support, or parts availability, but take a look at this case with PM as a classic example. Take in consideration that the new tools are designed for obsolescence in a few years and that these companies remove or sell off old stock parts with in a few years; forcing the individual to buy a new import crapper. Steel City may offer the best option in the cancer ward. But it is still just that. And as long as there are buyers willing to put up with this model; the deeper the land fill will get.

.005 on the spindle? For real? Or was that a ground rod chucked up and indicated off it? .005 off the spindle is absolutely unacceptable. .005" in a new chuck, whilst you will be poking holes, sure leaves allot to be desired.

Unless a tool has been in government service and abused by hung over Lance Corporals, they are completely solid, rebuildable and should last a lifetime. Almost all of the old machines use off the shelf bearings. A refresh could be as simple as new bearings and belt; and you get a machine far superior than that is being peddled by offshore companies and Taunton's minions. If you are only wanting to make chips, that's great; maybe there is some near you who refreshes these machines. Worth a look at least!

Jon

[Ruhi Arslan]

1. Powermatic will do nothing. They told me my only option is to take it to a autherized repair center 50 miles away.

Sounds like they are doing what they are supposed to do; asking you to take it to the nearest service center that they designate. And also they will pay for the return as stated below from their warranty statement. So, you have to waste only two hours to go there only once.

The product or part must be returned for examination, postage prepaid, to a location designated by us. For the name of the location nearest you, please call 1-800-274-6848.
You must provide proof of initial purchase date and an explanation of the complaint must accompany the merchandise. If our inspection discloses a defect, we will repair or replace the product, or refund the purchase price, at our option. We will return the repaired product or replacement at our expense unless it is determined by us that there is no defect, or that the defect resulted from causes not within the scope of our warranty in which case we will, at your direction, dispose of or return the product. In the event you choose to have the product returned, you will be responsible for the handling and shipping costs of the return.

http://www.woodcraft.com/dropship/POWWarrantyInfo.pdf
2. Woodcraft wont take it back because it is not a stocked item and they had to special order it.If you picked it up but not had it directly shipped, they do not say they won't take it back unless you used it of course for the non-warranty returns. Read their return policy (http://www.woodcraft.com/DropShip/Powermatic.htm).



Bottom Line is I am on my own on this one. NEVER NEVER again will I purchase anyghing from powermatic. And that includes JET.They might as well prefer you keep your promise.



They do not stand behind thier products.What is that you think they could do to qualify, in your view, that they do stand behind their product? You don't sound like you want a solution, you just simply don't want to do anything. If paid by credit card, contest the charge, have the CC company to get involved because you were delivered a defective product and you cannot seem to resolve it with the seller/manufacturer.


The Drill press is usable as I have been using it. And the reason for PM to do something special for you is...??? Well, the suggestion to have CC to get involved goes out to window.


I was the first person to turn on this drill press since it was packed in chinaIt sounds to me that your problem is not with PM but China which is much bigger...

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Here is the thing. The reason I purchased the PM drill press is that with my joiner they were willing to come out and work on it.


Apperently they dont treat all large power tools the same. They are not consistant.

In any case I should not have to do all this crap for a brand new tool. It amazes me how many of you are willing to put up the manufactures crap. This is the main reason they continue to sell crappy products.

Another thing to consider. When I was in wood craft compaining about the drill press another customer chimed in and said I have PM drill press for 8 years and its been perfect.

I quickly advised him not to ever sell it as what you get today is not the same that was sold years ago. I own quite a few of the larger jet tools for years. They are tanks and I dont look forward to the day I have to replace them.

As I said before. The drill press is working. I suspect that it is going to completly fail within the warrenty and at that point I will drop it off at a service center and purchase another (Not Powermatic or Jet)

[Will Overton]

In any case I should not have to do all this crap for a brand new tool.

But you haven't done anything except complain. Had you put as much time into trying to fix it, it would probably be fixed already.

It amazes me how many of you are willing to put up the manufactures crap.

I'm not sure it's a matter of wanting to put up with crap. It's more like a choice of getting a problem resolved, whatever it takes, or standing in the corner and crying about it.

Sometimes life ain't fair and we all have to choose how we deal with it.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

@Will
Dont know what you are taking about.

1. I spent an hour+ on th e phone with PM. Most was waiting.
2. Trips to Woodcraft
3. Not to mention all the trial and error of adjutments to get the table swivle to work. and for your information they will not fix this it is a stinking design flaw. Ask most who have purchased this drill press.

My bigest regret is that I should have done more research on this drill press. It is a Powermatic Disaster and they know it.

Im not sure I can get the drill press to a service center without some major help and I am not about to dismantle it.

Powermatic = Junk.

[Jeff Monson]

Powermatic = Junk


I wish they would close this thread, this is not what Sawmill Creek is about.

[Van Huskey]

Michael,

I know how you feel I have been in similar circumstances over the years with different products with different companies. At times I have "cut of my nose to spite my face" and you may want to take a deep breathe before you do. I travel a lot and will be in the area next weekend and then again in mid December, if you would like I will work my schedule around to come by and help you tear it down and load it. Maybe someone else here could help you unload it on the return trip.

I get it you are unhappy (to put it mildly) with PM and you desreve to be! Just don't let the anger put you in a position where you don't take PM up on its offer to fix it, if you do you will be one of us (I have also done it, see above) that lets a company get away with bad QC/engineering.

I am sincere with my offer, let me know if I can help and I will do everything I can to make it work. I will be there in the afternoon of next Friday or could do it in the early AM on Saturday.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Thanks for the offer.
Actualy I have had quite a few offers to help me take to the service center.

The buldge in the belt is grinding away as I am using it.

1. Its reducing the vibration
2. It will fail completly in a couple weeks at its current rate.


Once it fails completly I will have my son in law take to the service center. At that point it will become my backup drill press and I will go out and purchase a better one (Not Powematic)

[Rod Sheridan]

Van, you're going to laugh, however I have a 20 or 25 year old Craftsman drill press, made in Taiwan, that's great.

It was around $500 then, so it was a substantial purchase compared to my wages 25 years ago.

It has an Emmerson motor (My MIL worked for Emmerson so I purchased it through her for about $250), the belts were good, the pulleys round, no run out issues etc. etc. The 1/2 HP Emmerson motor was made in the USA, and aside from oiling it once per year, has run perfectly without any maintenance or repairs.

I appreciate all the research you've done on drill presses, it indicates that once again we're receiving what we pay for.

Maybe we need a Metabo dealer in North America:D:D.

Regards, Rod.

[Joseph Tarantino]

NEVER NEVER again will I purchase anyghing from powermatic. And that includes JET.


unfortunately, you now know the truth about walter meier and their brands. welcome to the club, buddy, welcome to the club.

[Chuck Wintle]

I still say you should give the benefit of the doubt at the service center near you. at least, if they fail to make satisfactory repairs, they would deserve to be lambasted. I suggest to make a list of all complaints with the machine, give the list to the service center and have them check of each item as they address it.

[Van Huskey]

Van, you're going to laugh, however I have a 20 or 25 year old Craftsman drill press, made in Taiwan, that's great.

It was around $500 then, so it was a substantial purchase compared to my wages 25 years ago.

It has an Emmerson motor (My MIL worked for Emmerson so I purchased it through her for about $250), the belts were good, the pulleys round, no run out issues etc. etc. The 1/2 HP Emmerson motor was made in the USA, and aside from oiling it once per year, has run perfectly without any maintenance or repairs.

I appreciate all the research you've done on drill presses, it indicates that once again we're receiving what we pay for.

Maybe we need a Metabo dealer in North America:D:D.

Regards, Rod.

Not laughing, grinning maybe. Classic example of two truths: 1. Buy the tool and not the manufacturer and 2. Machines have gotten a lot less inexpensive AND at the same time gotten cheaper.

I wish Felder would make a Hammer DP... :(

[jon chandler]

A quick search in your area, revealed a 1952 Delta 17" DP. Bonafide 1hp motor. Not the fuzzy numbers (motor lockup) used today. That is the same machine used to build America's war birds. Smart choice and at less than half of your new machine costs!

Jon

[Chip Lindley]

I wish they would close this thread, this is not what Sawmill Creek is about.

Sure it is Jeff! Threads like this allow everyone to vent and insert their .02 until it gets ugly. THEN, the thread gets shut down. Freedom Of Speech is still in effect! (sorta!)


I would put that drill press in the back of my truck with a sign, drive to Woodcraft and park in the front of their store. Put on the sign that WOODCRAFT SOLD A DEFECTIVE MACHINE AND DOES NOT STAND BEHIND THE PRODUCTS THEY SELL. Have them call the Powermatic Rep. and tell him what is going on. More then likely they will take it back.
Goodluck.
Steve.

Woodcraft certainly does share a big responsibility in this problem. A picketing of their store front will certainly get the manager's attention! They SOLD you the DP! Regardless of the fact they had to special order it. Woodcraft should be the one who picks up your DP and takes it to the PM service center! See if they won't meet you half way in that manner.

IF you get no satisfaction from your local Woodcraft manager, ask who HIS BOSS is. Go UP the ladder! IMO, Woodcraft should take a recently purchased machine back for full refund, no questions asked! Inform Woodcraft in writing that you will file a complaint with your State's Attorney General Office for consumer affairs.

Also another avenue of recourse: Was the PM DP purchased with MasterCard or Visa? This gives you certain protection when an item is defective.

I would hate spending hard-earned $$ on Brand New crappy stuff too! That's why I buy Used! Powermatic (WMH) is certainly not what it used to be. And now a shadow is cast over Woodcraft also.

[Steven Satur]

I'll second that.

Steve.

[Dave MacArthur]

I painfully read this whole thread.
Company offered a solution, bring it to their service center or let them pick it up and return it at a cost of $100. DONE, and IMO that's acceptable customer service.

I do not accept the premise that a $1500 (or whatever it was) purchase puts unlimited liability on a company, or $1000 in mobile repair costs.

The complaints are not clearly fixable via "drive out with part X, replace it, drive back", they are clearly more likely to require measuring, testing, trying this, taking off a part and sanding it down, testing that, etc.... ALL things that are economically unfeasible to have a guy do on-site. What, you expect them to be maintaining some sort of fleet of SWAT Crash Response Emergency Super Repair Vans to handle complicated problems like this? No, they maintain a service center, and that is reasonable.

All this comes down to some valid complaints and one simple fact: OP has a solution, but is unwilling to pay $100 to implement it. End of story. This thread boils down to a long discussion about $100. You know, you can't get a handyman to drive to your house and plunge a toilet for less than $100? This is the "deductible" just like every insurance company in the world has, and we accept as a reasonable allocation of cost vs. risk. Yes, it sucks you have to pay $100 to deal with something not your fault, but that's a reasonable deductible for them to execute their insurance responsibilities.

We're so quick to complain about "the demise of America!" and blame it on the "Big Bad Company"... I lump being unwilling to bring tool to service center or pay $100 for someone else to do it, right in there with suing McDonalds for their coffee being too hot.

No offense intended, I know it's easy to get all worked up and take a stance, I do it too...usually to my regret later. I'd give them a chance to fix it and THEN complain if they don't.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Dave, if it's a defective part that can be replaced, I would like to have field service pop in and replace it.

If it's a machine that didn't meet QC at the factory and cannot be repaired by replacing a defective part, I would expect a new machine.

Of course since we're addicted to cheap, we get cheap, unless we pay real money for a quality machine, then you get proper QC and home service.

Since the Powermatic drill press isn't in the higher grade of machines, I would expect to have to take it back to the supplier for service as opposed to receiving field service for it.

Regards, Rod.

[Will Overton]

The warranty states that PowerMatic will pay to return the repaired item after a covered repair. The warranty is available online so all can see it before making a purchase. Why anyone expects more than the warranty stipulates is beyond me.

"We will return the repaired product or replacement at our expense unless it is determined by us that there is no defect, or that the defect resulted

from causes not within the scope of our warranty in which case we will, at your direction, dispose of or return the product. In the event you choose to
have the product returned, you will be responsible for the handling and shipping costs of the return."


The warranty is available online so all can see it before making a purchase. Why anyone expects more than the warranty stipulates is beyond me.

[Phil Thien]

Does the unit have a Reeves drive for variable speed?

If so, it is probably very similar to the variable-speed Ryobi press you (and I) have.

When I got my latest Ryobi, it was a vibration machine. I took the top off and noticed that during manufacturing they put quite a bit of lube on it. So much, in fact, that the belt was quite lubed.

So I took the Reeves drive apart (it was pretty easy to figure out how by looking at it), cleaned everything up, and replaced the belt with a link belt.

Now, I know some people say not to use a link belt on a Reeves drive. I'm not one of them.

My crappy little Ryobi drill press is smooth as silk now.

I'd love to have a shop of old cast iron tools. But my more important needs are tools I can move around by myself if need be. And I've found I can take many inexpensive tools and make them work great just by fine-tuning them. My table saw is a Ryobi BT3k (but I've made an extended miter table and cross cut sled that allow me to easily crosscut 24" wide panels). My bandsaw is an older Skil 10" (but I resaw 7" material with it, even white oak).

I realize you paid a lot for the PM. But you're in it now. I'd figure out a way to replace the belt and fix whatever else you can, and try to be happy with your purchase.

Then write up some instructions on how you improved the machine and distribute them here and elsewhere to help other people that are in your same position.

[Andrew Joiner]

Michael,

Is it less than 90 days since you bought it?

Satisfaction Guaranteed – We Promise!
We’re absolutely confident that you’ll be satisfied with your purchase from Woodcraft! If you’re not, return it anytime within 90 days and we will gladly replace the product, give you credit, or refund your money, whichever you prefer. Woodcraft’s Guarantee does not apply to power tools, which are subject only to manufacturer’s warranties. Special-order items or manufacturer drop-ships are subject to a 25% restocking fee.

Woodcraft had a 1 year Satisfaction Guarantee a few years ago. I bought a bandsaw that didn't work properly after Rikon sent me many parts. Woodcraft took it back after 10 months.

[Will Overton]

Michael,

Is it less than 90 days since you bought it?

Satisfaction Guaranteed – We Promise!
We’re absolutely confident that you’ll be satisfied with your purchase from Woodcraft! If you’re not, return it anytime within 90 days and we will gladly replace the product, give you credit, or refund your money, whichever you prefer. Woodcraft’s Guarantee does not apply to power tools, which are subject only to manufacturer’s warranties. Special-order items or manufacturer drop-ships are subject to a 25% restocking fee.

Woodcraft had a 1 year Satisfaction Guarantee a few years ago. I bought a bandsaw that didn't work properly after Rikon sent me many parts. Woodcraft took it back after 10 months.

Looks like WoodCraft is not breaking any rules.

[Dan Karachio]

Michael, I know you are angry and I would be too, but given the investment, why not drag it to the service center? Best outcome is you get a perfectly fixed up drill press.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Like I said in an earlyer post as soon as the belt breaks down It will makes its way to the service center. At that point it gets deligated as my backup drill press and I go out and get real one.

[Joe Leigh]

I'm done with this poster and this thread. Dozens of members have made various suggestions to rectify the problem, and one has even offered to help move the item in question back to the place of purchase. It's abundantly clear that the OP intends to do NOTHING to help himself or the situation. Nothing that is except continue to whine and bad mouth the manufacturer on various other threads.

This thread serves no further purpose.

[Matt Meiser]

One has to wonder if PM won't refuse to cover any further damage done by continuing to operate the machine, much like a tire manufacturer wouldn't cover the damage done by driving on a leaking tire until it completely blew and damaged other things.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I'm done with this poster and this thread. Dozens of members have made various suggestions to rectify the problem, and one has even offered to help move the item in question back to the place of purchase. It's abundantly clear that the OP intends to do NOTHING to help himself or the situation. Nothing that is except continue to whine and bad mouth the manufacturer on various other threads.

This thread serves no further purpose.

+1. Also: boring, and now contaminating other threads. The quantity of ergs expended in the ranting would be more than enough to transport the DP to + from the service center. My curiosity and "can-do-it-ness" attitude sent me on a 90 second jaunt with the googles - the manual is pretty lame, but not for the first time, and not from the first manufacturer - but the exploded parts list is clear enough to show how to replace the belts, and likely [don't have the machine in front of me to confirm] method to retension - and I am far from being a mechanical expert. Another 60 seconds located a replacement for the rear belt - that source did not have the correct OD for the front belt, but I was worn out from all that effort, so I stopped. Gotta go fire up my PM machines and make some dust.

[glenn bradley]

I gave up back on the 20th. This thread has taken on a life of its own to no real service of anyone. This machine has had bad reports since its release, I am sorry Michael missed or ignored them. He seems content to spend a lot of money for an admittedly marginal DP and that is his prerogative. I guess I didn't really give up, I'll try again. ;-)

[Dwain Lambrigger]

So if this is an AntiGloat would the reply be "You Blow"

I hate to see you spend all that money and then have a tool that is not very good. I also hate to see the Powermatic name go down.



LOL!!! I agree with you on both points. They are supposed to be one of the best.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

A final post as I wont even read this thread anymore.

1. If I had it to do all over again I would not have set the title to Powermatic=Junk. Its not junk. Its just not any better than any of the other import products. powermatic used to demand a premium price and even though they are no longer a premium product will try to get some of us oldtimers who used to relish there products. Not any more. Thats why I will recomend one of the other importers over powermatic. And I will continue to do so.

2. I make lots of money doing what I do. And in the time it would take me to mess with this unit I could purchase another better one. I made the mistake that Powermatic was still a superior product. Well its not and that mistake will be not be made again.

3. It is important to note that one of the most pwerful features on this thread is the ability to call out a manufacure that is performing in a substandard fasion. I know for afact that many feel the exact same way I do as I have recieved several private posts. Its become apparant that they are unwilling to give negative comments on a product or manufacture for fear of some sort of backlash. I am tool old and life is too short so I will contiunue to call them out as I feel nessary.

4. I demand quality where where quality is expected. That used to be powematic and a couple other manufacures as well. Its not anymore. I just wish that FestTool made drill presses.

[Rod Sheridan]

Van, I notice in the new General/GI flyer that they have a mechanical variable speed drill press in the $1,700 range, new this year.

I wonder what it's like?

I found that the GI stuff seems to be at the premium end of the import machines, and is popular in Canada. QC seems to be more consistent.

Time will tell.

I wouldn't mind the variable QC on the low end stuff, it's when I can't find a consistently high QC line on the import stuff that it bothers me.

I guess a General drill press is an option.

regards, Rod.

[Van Huskey]

Van, I notice in the new General/GI flyer that they have a mechanical variable speed drill press in the $1,700 range, new this year.

I wonder what it's like?

I found that the GI stuff seems to be at the premium end of the import machines, and is popular in Canada. QC seems to be more consistent.

Time will tell.

I wouldn't mind the variable QC on the low end stuff, it's when I can't find a consistently high QC line on the import stuff that it bothers me.

I guess a General drill press is an option.

regards, Rod.

I have my eye on the GI stuff but much of the "new" stuff hasn't hit the showrooms I get to. It is being hindered by the fact I keep hearing GI requires a minimum order and many places aren't getting GI stuff in. Maybe their new distribution center in TN (?) will help this. If I had to buy today it would be a PM 2800 I could play with before purchase (I love the feature set) or a Delta 18-900, the latter being the press that my gut tells me is the sub $1k press to buy.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Powermatic could so easily have saved the day here by pulling a Shiraz.

All it takes is for one of them to be honest, admit the mistake, and fix the problem. That's it. It would change most of our perspectives.

Grizzly makes inexpensive import machines. Some of their machines are really nice, some of them are budget machines. One might even venture to guess that they probably have more QC issues that Powermatic does (a guess of course). Yet, people on this forum generally LOVE grizzly, because they stand behind their products and do what's right by the customer.

Instead, powermatic holds the corporate line, doesn't say a word, and does nothing to stop the bleeding. Bad business, IMHO.

OP, sorry about your troubles. It sure is disappointing to spend a lot of money on something only for it to be a dud and to have the manufacturer give you the middle finger.

Frankly, I don't think fixing the immediate problem will satisfy you. It sounds like this is just a very poorly made machine.

[Van Huskey]

Powermatic could so easily have saved the day here by pulling a Shiraz.

.

I don't understand how sending him parts (as Grizzly usually does) is better CS than saying bring it to the "local" service center and we will fix it.

[Will Overton]

I don't understand how sending him parts (as Grizzly usually does) is better CS than saying bring it to the "local" service center and we will fix it.

That's particularly true with a customer who doesn't want to do anything to help. He [unless I missed it] ignored my question, which I asked twice.

Did he ask if they could send a belt and talk him through changing it?

[Paul McGaha]

I own (4) pieces of Powermatic equipment (Jointer, Planer, Hollow Chisel Mortiser, Air Filter). Based on the set up and performance I've had on these tools I am open minded to buying Powermatic again.

In this case Powermatic has offered to repair the tool. The OP has declined the service (at least so far).

I would have prefered the OP would have taken the tool in for repair, and the service center would have taken care of the repairs in all aspects and made the tool acceptable to the OP, and this story to have a good ending. I prefered it enough to that I was one of the people that offered to help him bring the tool to the service center.

At this point it seems we'll never know if the service center could have repaired it to his satisfation or not.

To me this is as much about the customer as it is about the tool. I remember a post a few weeks back about a fellow that bought a table saw from Grizzly that had issues with the table being flat. He must have worked on it a week to fix all the issues himself. In the end he was happy with the tool and with Grizzly. Sort of just the opposite of this case.

PHM

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This thread has more than exceeded it's useful life and I am closing it.

Here's my take. You have to give a company's CS a chance. This doesn't mean it will always be to your liking. In most things you can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

I find the continued verbal whipping of the OP out of character for SMC. Enough.

I am closing this thead.