Steel soled wood plane

[brad carlson]

Just Finished this, 9 1/2" smoother. Works beautifully. I got the idea, from my previous wood plane mouth opening and chipping. Body is hard maple,hard steel is 3/16", machine screwed countersunk and milled off.
Bed of plane is at 50* since hardwood id used often.
I also made the blades out of A2 steel 1/4" x 2" x 6", heat treated by a company then surface ground flat within .001". Ignore the slot in the short one was part of a different attempt, blades are like the other. The slotted blade is sharpened-i.e the end is honed.

Thought I'd share haven't seen any on google or other sites.

Is there any interest to anyone to buy this sort of thing? A kit with a blade and sole machined and countersunk with your specified bed 45*,47*, 50* 55* & blade angle to match?

If there is any interest please let me know and i can get a $ amount to post.
$50 for a blade
$? Sole - get back on that.

[john brenton]

There's a market for everything. I personally have never found that contoured body design to be attractive...it looks modern and oriental to me. The iron looks a little too square too...I don't really like the look of the square blade with no stamp on them. A nice pretty stamp on a nicely shaped iron is a attractive. What about an inverted infill plane, where the innards are steel and the housing is wood? That'd be neat..kinf of pointless and a bear to machine, but it would at least have a gimmick!.
Oh well there's my teo cents. After all that criticism I must say I admire the work!

[Joel Goodman]

Here's another wooden plane with a metal sole

www.phillyplanes.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=23

[Bill Houghton]

This was apparently a moderately common practice on English planes around the turn of the last century.

Not that this helps for your question of how marketable a kit would be.

[David Weaver]

If you're going to make money on planes, they have to be artistic. Otherwise, people aren't going to give you money enough for your time and hassle - they're barely going to want to give you the cost of materials and overhead.

No doubt a plane of that style works well, but I think you'll end up spending at least as much time making it look nice as you do making it functional.

I think a good gimmick would be making the top out of a tactile dense polymer so that it is really stable and heavy, and shaping it more like a coffin smoother.

I don't know what Holtey used for polymer on his last batch of plane totes and knobs, but it's the most tasteful looking polymer I've ever seen (it polishes like lacquered wood) and something like that might be in order.

http://www.holteyplanes.com/blog/2010/09/20/window-to-my-workshop-44/

[brad carlson]

I cut the shape out for my preference, it fits my hands well. As far as selling I only meant the blade and the steel sole, the purchaser would be left to build the body. Blades can be rounded on top and i could put my own stamp on it too.

My first attempt at building a metal/wood plane was like the phillyplanes link. 1/2" thick steel sole dovetailed to the wood body with bronze sides- it was around 5lbs when done and very tiring to use. Thats why I stuck to the all wood body and 3/16" sole, has a nice weight and no chattering.

[Jim Belair]

I don't mind that body shape but the mouth looks a bit far forward to me. I do agree a bit of shaping, rounding or other, on the top of the blade would be good to get rid of the corners.

Lee Valley 3/16" A2 blades for woodies are $36, surface ground to .0005 and backed by LV. Not sure I'd pay the extra for a 1/4" blade as 3/16 should be plenty thick.

Cutting the mouth through the 3/16 steel would be a bear so a kit with this already done (and the mouth in the "right" position) would be a must for me to consider building one. It would be a fun project I think and a unique end product.

Jim B

[george wilson]

David,I saved the polymer supplier site. I hope their ivory isn't the same as the block I bought from a knife maker's supply,Koval, some years ago. I dropped it,and a big hunk of it flew off very easily. The density of the polymer ivory was very light,too. Not at all near the weight of real ivory.

I wished I could have seen the grain of their ivory better,too. That's very important,but I couldn't make out any detail.

The Holtey polymer did look a lot like horn.

[David Weaver]

I cut the shape out for my preference, it fits my hands well. As far as selling I only meant the blade and the steel sole, the purchaser would be left to build the body. Blades can be rounded on top and i could put my own stamp on it too.

My first attempt at building a metal/wood plane was like the phillyplanes link. 1/2" thick steel sole dovetailed to the wood body with bronze sides- it was around 5lbs when done and very tiring to use. Thats why I stuck to the all wood body and 3/16" sole, has a nice weight and no chattering.

I think you'd be better off selling the irons separately (but as noted above, $50 isn't going to sell many). I've never found plane kits to be worth the efforts for their cost. By the time you pay for them and the tools you need to finish them, you could've bought several planes that are already working, and you have a plane that has no market value if you decide you don't like it. Even near new used irons don't sell that well.

For you to make a decent return, someone would have to pay about $100 for everything, including or plus shipping, and then they'd still have to find a suitable billet of dried wood - something that behaves well at different moisture contents, and does not have much of a shrinkage factor.

That's just an opinion, others may feel differently.

You could always make about 10 of them and see how they do.

[David Weaver]

David,I saved the polymer supplier site. I hope their ivory isn't the same as the block I bought from a knife maker's supply,Koval, some years ago. I dropped it,and a big hunk of it flew off very easily. The density of the polymer ivory was very light,too. Not at all near the weight of real ivory.

I wished I could have seen the grain of their ivory better,too. That's very important,but I couldn't make out any detail.

The Holtey polymer did look a lot like horn.

I think density is important. Most of the time, that I've seen at least, you want that density in anything that's going to require a fine mouth that an infill or steel bottom smoother will need.

Were I concerned about the mouth on a lighter plane, I would much rather have a rosewood or ebony plane with a mouth insert of brass than a steel bottomed lightweight plane. The steel bottom takes away a lot of sweetness of a light wooden soled plane, and will have you either tolerating more friction or waxing a lot more often.

I wonder how much the polymer holtey is using costs. I'd like to try making an infill with it, but there isn't exactly a shopping cart for large billets on that site.

[george wilson]

I have seen in old 19th.C. catalogs,sheet metal coffin smoother bottoms made of sheet steel,with a raised edge all around it.

Thing is,you'd have to have a plane that fit that shape very perfectly to use it. Or,make a coffin smoother to exactly fit that steel sole. Not sure how many of those bottoms they ever sold.

[Marv Werner]

Brad,

From my experience, I'd say that most people who will have the ability to buy your iron and bottom plate and make a complete plane, will also have the ability to make those parts themselves. That would be "most" people. The remaining number of people who might buy your parts probably wouldn't be enough buyers to warrant your cost and time. The iron is the main thing, and those can be purchased for less money at already well established suppliers. If I needed a plane of that size, I'd just go buy something at an auction site and tune it up.

Why is there a slot in the iron?

Will the bottom plate be predrilled with countersinks?

Will it have the mouth already milled?

In order for something as common as a plane, you need some kind of gimmick. Something that attracts those who already have everything and money is not a factor. I don't think having a wood plane with a metal bottom is enough of a gimmick.

Aside from the wet blanket I just laid out, it's sometimes amazing what some people will spend their money on.

If you choose to move forward with your idea, try to keep in mind what you consider your time to be worth.

The older I get, the more each hour is worth. I estimate it at around $500 per hour and rapidly increasing. :D

Good luck,:)
Marv

[brad carlson]

Brad,

From my experience, I'd say that most people who will have the ability to buy your iron and bottom plate and make a complete plane, will also have the ability to make those parts themselves. That would be "most" people. The remaining number of people who might buy your parts probably wouldn't be enough buyers to warrant your cost and time. The iron is the main thing, and those can be purchased for less money at already well established suppliers. If I needed a plane of that size, I'd just go buy something at an auction site and tune it up.

Why is there a slot in the iron?

Will the bottom plate be predrilled with countersinks?

Will it have the mouth already milled?

In order for something as common as a plane, you need some kind of gimmick. Something that attracts those who already have everything and money is not a factor. I don't think having a wood plane with a metal bottom is enough of a gimmick.

Aside from the wet blanket I just laid out, it's sometimes amazing what some people will spend their money on.

If you choose to move forward with your idea, try to keep in mind what you consider your time to be worth.

The older I get, the more each hour is worth. I estimate it at around $500 per hour and rapidly increasing. :D

Good luck,:)
Marv


The slot in that particular blade if from a different attempt on another plane, otherwise it wouldnt be there.

Yes, the sole would be predrilled and countersunk and mouth milled to a specific angle- like mentioned in first post. Aswell as the mouth towards middle more.

I would disagree with most people being to work with A2 steel easily and accurately.
Yes, LN has blades for cheaper, because they can spit them out fast,
If I had 12 people order a blade I could sell them for $37 ea.


This was just a thought, I personally like to use wooden planes they have a different feel to them, than using a casted one. So I guess its marketed to others who enjoy woody's aswell. I'm not looking to build a business, perhaps to bring in some more WOOD money :) These can be made with common machines -tablesaw,drill press, planer- and a file to fine tune squaring, air dried wood isnt need Kiln dried suits fine -oak,maple,birch,beech orient the grain opposite another like gluing a table top. If time is taken when building these there just as good as a LN,LV even a bedrock in my opinion with evidence to myself.

Thanks for the thread discussion and opinion, was curious to what others thought.

[george wilson]

LN and LV can also buy the expensive metal cheaper,too,by buying it in volume.

I rather hate the word "Gimmick" applied to making things not meant to be sold in some cheap store. What you need is High QUALITY,and FEATURES,maybe,not gimmicks. A very good DESIGN also helps to sell things.

If you can achieve these things,you can get considerable money for your work.

[Tony Shea]

If you have some $ floating around to spend on a bit of material for these kits, that your willing to eat, then I would make an attempt at making a few and try them out on ebay. It is a decent looking and potentially functional, therefore I wouldn't hesitate to try them out on an auction site. Maybe come up with a couple different designs to get the gimmick factor. They are def not anything out of the ordinary that hasn't been made and sold before but if your just doing it for a bit of extra money then you really have nothing to lose other than the cost of materials and your time. Which really would just supply yourself with some more woddies, which I'm sure you have plenty of.

IMO people on ebay are willing to spend money on anything and it never ceases to amaze me at how much their willing to spend. It wouldn't hurt too bad to try it out.

[Joel Goodman]

I wonder whether an adjustable mouth could be adapted to the design? That might be a design feature that might be of interest.

[Ron Petley]

I think you have a nice first go, with a little hindsight the next will be even better.
If you make your own blades, and HT them yourself in a batch you would save by not being the middle man on these. Course that would require more time. Cheers Ron.

[brad carlson]

Adjustable mouth would be different- hard to do maybe. But would you need one on a smoother? ebay is a option will look around for simillar items. I couldn't see anything in multiple searches.
My idea behind this was preventing sole replacement when wood sole wears down and mouth opens up.