Cyclone Barrel Emptying Question

[Dean Ousterhout]

I am installing my Clearvue and wondered about emptying the barrel? Does anyone use a plastic trash bag in the barrel? I don't really want to dump the dust into the garbage can... and have to deal with all the dust that will be in the air when I do the dumping... so... I was wondering how folks deal with that?

Thanks, Dean

[John Coloccia]

I dump it, hold my breath and walk away from the area quickly to be very honest. I've found that spritzing it with a water bottle keeps it from getting too bad when I'm carrying it, and then I spritz it again on the walk back and that keeps the dust down as I reinstall it.

[Stephen Cherry]

I think that you really don't want a big plastic bag sucked up into the blower.

[Dean Ousterhout]

Stephen, I was wondering about that.... and you are right... what a shame to have a plastic bag sucked into that beautiful blower...

But.. if the sawdust stays in the barrel and isn't sucked back up... why would the bag get sucked back up? That question is one that I haven't been able to make sense of?

I think I saw where someone made a metal frame that went inside the bag and kept it in place?

But that nagging thought of bag in blower... ouch... so I was just wondering what folks that have theirs up and running do????

Thanks

[Stephen Cherry]

Maybe one way to do it would be to put a hose nipple at the bottom of the drum, and another one at the inlet of the blower.

Then connect the two with a length of hose (maybe 1/4 inch id)


then make sure that the drum/plastic bag/drum lid connection is as tight as possible.

This way the liner would be sucked into the drum because the inlet of the blower is the minimum pressure point in the system. This is not something that I have tried, but it seems like it would work, if you have it in your mind to use a liner for the drum.

[Paul McGaha]

I use bags. Oneida recommends a 6 mil bad. I get them from a company named Uline.

There are a couple of ways to keep the bags in the drum. Oneida sells something called a bag gripper that is some type of air pump that is wired to the starter and comes on at the same time as the collector (its 220V and connects to the same terminals as the fan motor). It changes the pressure inside the drum and makes the collection bags cling to the drum. Thats what I have on mine.

A lower tech way is to build some type of framework that you put inside a new bag when you change the bags and take it out when you go to empty the bag.

You still get some dust in your face when you close up the bags for disposal but I think its far less dust than dumping the drum without a bag.

PHM

[Jeff Duncan]

I use bags...and no they don't get sucked up into the cyclone. 6 mil is a bit overkill for sawdust IMHO...heavy duty contractor bags are roughly 3 mil and more than beefy enough for my 55 gal drum. I'm using 2.5 mil right now and they also are working fine.
If you splurge for 6 mil I would probably find a way to re-use them.
good luck,
JeffD

[Jim O'Dell]

I've wondered before if the thick plastic sheets that you get to go into a plastic lawn bag to hold it up for lawn clippings and leaves would work to keep the bag down. I bought one, but it isn't tall enough for my 55 gallon barrel. I suppose being a little short might not be a problem, just haven't dumped the barrel to try it to see. Jim.

[glenn bradley]

I went with the 35gal barrel on my cyclone because I knew I didn't want to deal with 55gal or waste. I dump mine into the "green barrel" which is used for that sort of waste where I live. I put on a respirator (no special occasion as I wear one in the shop frequently), dump it and flip the lid closed. No worries.

[richard poitras]

I use bags. Oneida recommends a 6 mil bad. I get them from a company named Uline.

Paul what size bags do you use… Outside W x L ? And what size drum are you using?
Thanks Richard

[David Hawxhurst]

i will try using a bag in mine as emptying would be easier.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Richard,

I use 36" x 36" x 48" for a 35 gallon steel drum.

I use (3) small spring clamps at the lid of the drum to get a good seal

I really do prefer to use bags. My sawdust and wood scraps go out with the regular house trash and I've seen the guys empty the containers when the dust wasnt bagged and I dont want to put them thru that. A small cloud of dust.

Just my $.02.

PHM

[Nick Lazz]

I am installing my Clearvue and wondered about emptying the barrel? Does anyone use a plastic trash bag in the barrel? I don't really want to dump the dust into the garbage can... and have to deal with all the dust that will be in the air when I do the dumping... so... I was wondering how folks deal with that?

Thanks, Dean

Dean,

I have a CV cyclone and use bags in my 55 gallon drum I found at Lowes. I do not see how bags could be sucked up into the blower, but if they did there are two safeties: first the bags are large enough to pull down several inches outside the drum which is locked into place with the locking ring. Second, my bin full sensor would shut the DC off when the bag blocked the photocell.

I started off without bags and had the same problem with dust when emptying. Then I tried dumping the contents into large bags, which was helpful but still a little cumbersome as the bag would have to be burped causing, although lighter, dust. I found these bags on accident and tried them. They work great.
If you're interested, I can post the name and size of bags I bought for you to try and find at your local Lowes.

Nick

[richard poitras]

Dean,

I found these bags on accident and tried them. They work great.
If you're interested, I can post the name and size of bags I bought for you to try and find at your local Lowes.

Nick

Nick please post bag info.

Thanks Richard

[ian maybury]

It'd certainly be a very elegant solution if Stephen's suggestion of taking a tapping and running a tube from a low(er) pressure point somewhere near the fan to the bottom of the drum would work - no need for switches, wires and other stuff.

The million $ question is whether or not there is a point delivering low enough pressure - lower than that at the cyclone outlet that is. His suggestion that the minimum pressure point should be right at the entry to the fan (at the top of the inlet tube on a Pentz cyclone) makes sense, the question i guess is whether or not that's likely to be enough lower than at the cyclone outlet.

Thoughts anybody? Think i'll fit a connection and see what happens when i assemble my Pentz system in the coming month or so.

ian

[Gerald Senburn]

A friend of mine has a Grizzly cyclone and normal bags are slightly too small. He found these on Amazon and they work well for him. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZX2G2

He also built a holder that keeps the bag from getting sucked up into the cyclone, he based it on this other guys holder and it works great: http://www.thewoodnerd.com/workshop/dustCollection.html#collectionbin

[Nick Lazz]

Nick please post bag info.

Thanks Richard

I attached 2 pictures. One is the bags, second shows the overlap on outside of barrel.
I think many here are making this much more complicated than it needs to be. There does tend to be air in the barrel between the bag and barrel, but I just burp mine when I install it. I thought about putting an adapter on the barrel where I could install my shop vac to suck out any air around the bag but it really has not been an issue.
If I did that I would install a water valve type PVC shutoff fitting (technical term). You would only have to run your shop vac for a few seconds and close the shutoff valve to maintain the vacuum. Seems like that would work to me anyway.

Step up and be brave....using bags is really not that scary. I haven't been scared once! They just work and it's easier. :D

Stop! Quit thinking. Just do it.:eek:

[mreza Salav]

I'll be setting up my cyclone (a CV) and was thinking to put a bag.
My thinking says, if there is no air leak in the system the bag should not get sucked up (if it did all those fine dust particles will be sucked up long before the bag).

[Gerald Senburn]

It only takes one extremely small leak (far too small to affect dust flow) to suck up the bag over the course of a few minutes. That was the problem my friend was having. The bag holder solved the problem completely. If you pull the top off, you'll find the bag sucked up tightly on the bars, but that's all. I think it took him about an hour to build once he got the idea from the woodnerd site.

[Paul Murphy]

A friend of mine has a Grizzly cyclone and normal bags are slightly too small. He found these on Amazon and they work well for him. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZX2G2

He also built a holder that keeps the bag from getting sucked up into the cyclone, he based it on this other guys holder and it works great: http://www.thewoodnerd.com/workshop/dustCollection.html#collectionbin

Gerald, thanks for posting the link for the "bag holder". I think it's potentially a great solution because it's so simple. I am going to give it a try. I use standard 35 gallon steel trash cans, and have a foam sealing ring where the top rests on the can. There is negative pressure in the can with the cyclone running, so like you say a small leak could have the bag lifting up out of the can.

[Justin Chen]

I've read someone just sprays some water in their can and then dumping. I have yet to try it but sounds like a good idea to me.

[Noah Katz]

It'd certainly be a very elegant solution if Stephen's suggestion of taking a tapping and running a tube from a low(er) pressure point somewhere near the fan to the bottom of the drum would work - no need for switches, wires and other stuff.

The million $ question is whether or not there is a point delivering low enough pressure - lower than that at the cyclone outlet that is.

I believe Oneida has a setup using this method, so it must work.

[george wilson]

I have the 35 gallon drum,and got the suction gadget when I got my Dust Gorilla,to keep the bags from getting sucked up.

Those heavy plastic bags are too expensive to use and throw away,so I carefully take mine out and dump them. It is surprising how heavy and packed with sawdust the bags get. So,you must be careful to not tear them when extracting them from the bin.

It is not necessary to apply the band clamp to the bin's lid. It does get sucked down by the cyclone. I never use the clamp,since Oneida told me that.

[David Hostetler]

I set the drum on the curb on trash day and let the waste management engineers deal with it.

[Paul Johnstone]

I am installing my Clearvue and wondered about emptying the barrel? Does anyone use a plastic trash bag in the barrel? I don't really want to dump the dust into the garbage can... and have to deal with all the dust that will be in the air when I do the dumping... so... I was wondering how folks deal with that?

Thanks, Dean

I have a Clearvue. I carry the bin outside and dump it in our regular trashcan. I wear a dust mask while doing that.
Other people have come up with ways to rig up a trashbag inside the cyclone can (or attempted it). They have had mixed results.

Edit: I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but if you use expensive bags, and then dump the bags so the bags can be reused, what is the point ?
Why not just empty the bin? :)

[Paul Wunder]

Nothing to add except to thank everyone for their suggestions. Creekers are terrific.

Paul

[Dean Ousterhout]

What I love about all the participation is that there are lots of good ideas, tempered with experience. You just can't beat it.

Thanks for all the ideas. My thought of the plastic bag liner was to make the dumping easier. I would probably NOT re-use the bag... just toss it with the dust.

I suppose, I should recycle the dust, and the plastic bag. I will have to look into that.

Anyone know the weight of a 35 gallon can filled with wood chips and dust?

How about a 55 gallon drum? I am thinking that I am probably not strong enough to empty a 55 gallon drum and that the 35 is what I need.

[Alan Schaffter]

I just un-clamp the bag from the bottom of the cyclone, tie it off, and carry it to the curb. No dust, no mess.

Oh, that's right I have a push-through cyclone, never mind. :D:D:D

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1329/medium/P10100531.JPG

[Nick Lazz]

Dean,

The 55 gal bags when "full", are probably near 50lbs. I would guess. The weight isn't really the issue but pulling it straight out of the can is not an easy task. I twist the bag closed while removing the air and tip the barrel on it's side to drag the bag out. Very easy. Also, I do not re-use my bags.

Nick

[Doug Shepard]

I've only got a 33 gal drum but I double bag 2 contracter size trash bags and bungee cord them tight onto the drum. Then tip the drum over and stand it up and start shaking. I leave it all alone for a good 10 minutes or so after it feels like everything has fallen into the bags so hopefully all the dust has settled before I try unhooking the bungee cords and sliding the drum the rest of the way out. The first bungee cords I tried weren't tight enough and caused a heck of a mess when the bags slipped off as I was still shaking stuff out of the drum.

[Dean Ousterhout]

Thanks Nick, that is good to know, because I have some 55 gallon plastic barrels that were used for Coke syrup that would be perfect. I just need to make a lid for one and I will be good to go.

I was worried that the full 55 gallon might be too heavy. 50 lb's I can handle. :)

[Alan Lightstone]

When my bin gets full, I just take my cyclone and suction up the chips.

Wait......


Nevermind. :(

[Paul Wunder]

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/dust-collection/top-dust-collection-tips/?catref=wd131&page=2

Just found the attached on the Wood Magazine website. In case the link doesn't work, it is a barrel liner made of wire fencing that is shaped to the inside diameter of the dust barrel. The plastic bag is inserted into the barrel and then the "fence" is inserted to hold the liner securely. Haven't tried it yet, but it certainly looks like it would work.

Paul

[Alan Lightstone]

Noticed this today. I wonder if it would fit in other bins. They also make a 55 gal sized one.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Bag-Holder-for-35-Gallon-Cyclone-Drum/H8173

[Brian Kincaid]

When my bin gets full, I just take my cyclone and suction up the chips.
Wait......
Nevermind. :(

So Alan, how do you empty your air filter? :D
-Brian

[Steve Peterson]

Stephen, I was wondering about that.... and you are right... what a shame to have a plastic bag sucked into that beautiful blower...

But.. if the sawdust stays in the barrel and isn't sucked back up... why would the bag get sucked back up? That question is one that I haven't been able to make sense of?


I wondered the same thing also. Here is my theory.

A small hole in a barrel with a bag will push the bag up, since the inside of the cyclone has a lower pressure than outside. Even a very small hole can eventually allow enough air to lift the bag.

A small hole in a barrel with no bag will still pull air into the cyclone, but that air will move through the sawdust. The overall velocity of air movement is not enough to lift the sawdust.

Steve

[Alan Schaffter]

A small hole in a barrel with no bag will still pull air into the cyclone, but that air will move through the sawdust. The overall velocity of air movement is not enough to lift the sawdust.

Steve

Not the big stuff but it sure will affect the fine stuff. It also depends on what you mean by "a small hole"? Air coming in through a hole can not only allow dust back up into the cyclone, but can interfere with the cyclonic separation and cause dust to pass through to a filter if you have one before it reaches the barrel- just like an overfilled barrel! Remember, cyclonic flow causes the dust to fly outward to the surface of the cone where the air velocity decreases. In a well sealed system, no air is entering or leaving the barrel. Once the swirl reaches the hose to the barrel the dust falls mainly by gravity. It doesn't take much air flow to counteract the pull of gravity on fine dust!

That is why all the experts say to make sure your drum and fittings to the drum are absolutely air tight! (again, this is not as critically important with a push-though cyclone :D :D :D )

[Dave MacArthur]

It looks like Grizzly uses this "tapped vacuum" method on some of their cyclones. Here you can see the hose tapped off the side of the cyclone cone just under where it begins to taper, running to the barrel bottom.

Also, remember that static pressure (felt by the bag in the drum) not as low as dynamic pressure (airflow across a hole). The airflow across the tapped hole actually creates a venturi effect, which I'd guess results in a harder vacuum than the static pressure in the barrel. After all, this is how vacuum pumps work...

In any case, we know it works well enough to be marketed.


http://cdn4.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg288/g/g0703_det3.jpg