14" Bandsaw Suggestions for 120v/20A service

[David Markowitz]

Help appreciated:

Obviously, this is something that gets discussed in the forums quite a bit, but I'm coming at it with a few constraints, so I'd like to draw on collective knowledge a bit:

1) I'm a newby without a lot of shop experience. I'd like something that won't require a lot of tuning/fiddling. That's scared me off of some models that reviewers say require "fixing" out of the box.

2) I'm limited to a 20amp/120volt outlet. My place has 60 amps, that's not changing unless I move.

3) My main purpose is resawing, and I'm attracted to the 12" capacity and 1" blade capability of the Laguna LT14 SE, but it's about twice recent sales on Powermatic or Rikon 14" saws, and "requires" accessories ($140 base, $200 resaw blade, $120 voltage conversion).

4) At some point, I suppose, as a hobbyist with a dream of making furniture as a sideline or professionally, I guess I could get by with sawmill/lumberyard services, but I'd like the freedom of a bandsaw. If getting what I need in a 14" bandsaw isn't practical, I'll keep doing that.

I'm not wedded to brands or specs, but I am limited by my electric service and experience. Even if it's to adjust my expectations, advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance, Dave

[Jim Rimmer]

Two answers:

1. Get Mark Duginski's book on bandsaws. http://www.amazon.com/New-Complete-Guide-Band-Saw/dp/1565233182/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286937567&sr=1-2
It is a great book on setting them up but the first part of the book tells you what to look for in a saw, what the limitations are, what to look out for and even what to look for if you are thinking about a used saw.

2. I have the Grizzly G0555X. It is a little more than the G0555 but worth the extra $. You get 1.5 HP motor, bigger table, resaw fence and some other stuff that makes it worth more - it's more than just the motor.

After you have read the book, you might want to reconsider larger blades (>1/2") on a 14" saw. Duginski states that 1/2" is all they can handle and explains why. Some here may disagree with him and I don't have another experience to argue either way.

You gotta get the book - before you buy.

[David Markowitz]

Two answers:
[Recommendations of Mark Duginsky's book and Grizzly GO555X snipped]

After you have read the book, you might want to reconsider larger blades (>1/2") on a 14" saw. Duginski states that 1/2" is all they can handle and explains why. Some here may disagree with him and I don't have another experience to argue either way.



I've skimmed the book at B&N, and will take another look. I did ask the salesman from Laguna about the specced 1" blade width capacity because of what Duginsky wrote (and because every other 14" has a printed limit of 3/4")--the salesman said it was legit, but what else would one say?

Anyway, have you had success resawing with the 5/8 blade?

I'm in PA and have considered driving up to Williamsport to look at the Grizzly store. I just noticed the GO513 (17" model) runs on 110 current at 20 amps. I guess that could be another option...

[Dan Karachio]

David I vacillated on this same topic for over a year, but that all ended the day I brought my 14" Rikon home. It is fantastic and I use it for so many things, not just resawing. I now feel absolutely silly for debating this with myself for so long. I'm sure the grizzly g0555x is a fine saw too. I think it has a better fence, but I opted for the resaw capacity right out of the box with no riser. My advice, if you are near a Rikon dealer, get it. If you are near a grizzly outlet, get it, then get on with your life and enjoy your new bandsaw! :)

Ps I have a dedicated 20 amp outlet for it and it is not an issue. The books that are out really don't address the newer saws. Alas, they just add to the day dreaming and choice for me.

[Neil Brooks]

2. I have the Grizzly G0555X. It is a little more than the G0555 but worth the extra $. You get 1.5 HP motor, bigger table, resaw fence and some other stuff that makes it worth more - it's more than just the motor.


Me, too.

And I love mine, too.

And I was down to Rikon vs. Grizzly, and I flipped a coin ;)

Just get a good blade, tailored toward whatever your primary use is going to be, GET the Duginske book, and then get really anal about learning how to set up your BS ... ONCE (because it will be simple and 2nd nature, after that).

[Dave MacArthur]

I'm a fan of the Grizzly G0513. You can get the 513p (white polar bear version) for $698 or $792 to your door. You can wire it as 120v 20A. The G00513x2 is actually what I'd get for a few hundred more.

However, you say "I'm limited to a 20A 120V outlet"... Is that a single outlet on the circuit? Or even several? I know what I'd do... buy a $20 240V circuit breaker, open the box, plug it in. Change out any 120V receptacles on the circuit with 240V ones, maybe $15 total. Take you $35 and 30 minutes and you'd have 240V 20A, which lets you run TWICE the power with the same amps limit, and be totally fine on your existing 12ga wire. If the circuit is using 3 wires (red/black/white) you could even run 240 and 120 receptacles on the same circuit...

I'm just saying... it seems silly to limit yourself for $35 and 30min of work, when the repercussions of that limit are so much more costly. If you're amp limited (60A) then you should be using those amps to deliver the most power you can. So just be sure that really IS a limit before accepting an artificial and unnecessary ceiling to your tools.

Oh, and if you went 240V, I'd get the G0514x2.
Good luck!

[Van Huskey]

I've skimmed the book at B&N, and will take another look. I did ask the salesman from Laguna about the specced 1" blade width capacity because of what Duginsky wrote (and because every other 14" has a printed limit of 3/4")--the salesman said it was legit, but what else would one say?

First, Duginsky is talking about 14" cast framed saws not steel framed 14" saws. There are several 14" steel framed saws that have much more rigidity than the cast saws and can properly tension wider blades.

Anyway, have you had success resawing with the 5/8 blade?

Quite frankly, what many people gloss over is it is not merely the width of a blade that determines the amount of absolute pressure required on the blade to properly tension it (15,000-25,000PSI depending on the type of blade) BUT it depends on the thickness of the backing material since the cross section determines how much absolute pressure is required to meet the tension requirements of the blade. So the reality is there are some 1/2" blades out there (though rare) that due to their thick band can not be tensioned properly on a 14" cast saw, conversly there are some thin 5/8" blades that can be properly tension by said saw.

I'm in PA and have considered driving up to Williamsport to look at the Grizzly store. I just noticed the GO513 (17" model) runs on 110 current at 20 amps. I guess that could be another option...


There are several 14" steel spined saws that have no problem tensioning a 3/4" or even a 1" blade.

Currently though the 513P (note the Polar Bear series of this saw is still on sale the regular green version is not anymore) is one of the best buys in a sub 1,000 saw, however the cost difference is DEFINATELY worth looking at the if your budget allows. You get a bigger table and upgraded guides, wheels, fence and trunnion.

If resawing is your focus then a steel spined saw is where you want to look if you are looking at buying new. It would really help if you gave a hard budget.

As to the Laguna, the one LT14SE and SEL are arguably the best 14" saws currently available and have what many as well as I think are the best BS guides. Not sure why you mention it needs a $200 blade, it doesn't need any different blade than any other saw BUT it is capable of using wider and to some extent thicker blades which allows more options. The Laguna RK is certainly one of the best resaw blades and given it can be resharpened for $45 one of the most economical in the long run. Further if you want a base just get the SEL for $45 more, no need to spend the money for a base.

For some more bandsaw blade info you might check this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=149862

[Curt Harms]

I've skimmed the book at B&N, and will take another look. I did ask the salesman from Laguna about the specced 1" blade width capacity because of what Duginsky wrote (and because every other 14" has a printed limit of 3/4")--the salesman said it was legit, but what else would one say?

Anyway, have you had success resawing with the 5/8 blade?

I'm in PA and have considered driving up to Williamsport to look at the Grizzly store. I just noticed the GO513 (17" model) runs on 110 current at 20 amps. I guess that could be another option...

If you have the room and can move it, the Grizzly 513 seems a lot of saw for the $$. It doesn't have cast iron wheels and other goodies the souped-up 513 has but it's still a lot of saw for the $$. I have the Rikon 10-325 and it does what I need it to do. I find myself using a bandsaw more and more for cuts that I find uncomfortable on a table saw-narrow rips, possible reaction wood and things like that. A properly setup bandsaw can cut straight lines but the cut will need to be planed or sanded. Another advantage of the 17" saw is you could run a carbide band($$) on it if you're so inclined. 14" saws don't work well with most carbide bands-the wheels are too small and they aren't capable of enough tension. I'm told carbide bandsaw blades on a good saw can produce very near table saw quality cuts but i have no first hand experience with that.

[Thomas Delpizzo]

I just purchased the Grizzly Go555x and presently run it at 120v. I'm toying with rewiring to 220v. However, I spoke with Louis Iturra who disagrees with Mike Duginske. His opinion is that the cast iron saw may be more rigid than the steel. He also says there is no problem running a 3/4" blade on the 14" saw. However as mentioned, the normal thicker blades are a problem due to stress on a 14" wheel, where the curve is tighter than a larger, say 18" wheel. On the other hand, as the Bladerunner / Woodslicer blades are thinner (.035 vs .022) you should have no problem running a 3/4" blade.

As to the Grizzly 17" polar bear saw, I think its still on sale.

Good luck with your choices!

[David Markowitz]

[CUT]
However, you say "I'm limited to a 20A 120V outlet"... Is that a single outlet on the circuit? Or even several? I know what I'd do... buy a $20 240V circuit breaker, open the box, plug it in.


I didn't realize rewiring for higher voltage a simple proposition. You mention the needed wiring would be the same--is that something you're sure about? Burning down the place would upset my attached neighbors. :)

60 Amps is the entire feed into the place. It's a recent condo conversion in an old subdivided apartment building (configuration will make noise not a problem) with a new circuit breaker box and recent wiring. Not all 60 Amps are being used all the time, with the biggest not-immediately-controllable draw being a 20 Amp circuit on the heat pump/AC.

[David Hostetler]

David,

From the reviews I have seen you would be well served by staying far away from Laguna...

No matter what band saw you get, you will need to tune it up prior to first use. That is just the nature of the beast. Luckily tuning a band saw is really easy...

If you can afford one, you might actually want to take a look at the Grizzly 17" Polar Bear series saw. (G0513P). Yes it comes pre-wired for 220V, but converting it to 120V is a simple procedure, and Grizzly documents their stuff well...

[David Markowitz]

It would really help if you gave a hard budget.


Giving a hard budget is tough, since its been suggested some of my assumptions have been wrong--particularly WRT replacing a 120V outlet with a 220V. I had assumed that that would be tougher than someone else suggested. Do iron wheels and trunions really make a big difference? Did see the sub-700 polar bear GO513P.

Upper end, I think, is $2000, delivered, but it would have to be a reliable improvement in performance, reliability, user friendliness, capacity, etc. Spending less on competent performance would be nice, but not at the expense of enormous hassles.

[Dan Karachio]

2k is a whole other ball game and I am happy to live vicariously through your purchase! :D

Get an electrician to do the 220 - it couldn't be over a few hundred tops. That leaves you plenty for one of the tricked out Grizzly's. I would get as much saw as I could. Heck, you can save a bundle - this one has everything for $1200 delivered: http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-2-HP-Extreme-Series-Bandsaw-w-Cast-Iron-Trunnion-Brake-/G0513X2B

Just a thought, but then add a small 14" for curves, you can eek it all out at about 2k and you are set for life! Asking us to spend your money is a little dangerous, but man is it fun. Good luck!

[Dave MacArthur]

David,
Making a circuit 240 vs. 120 volts is very simple. Here's the deal:
the WIRE in your house is rated for 600 volts (usually, if it's NM-B, that copper wire with white/black/red insulation, a bare copper ground, all encased in a white insulating sheath. It doesn't care if you run 5V or 240 volts... The limiting factor for wire is how much AMPERAGE you run through it. Think of amps as the amount of water flowing through a pipe, and voltage as how much pressure that water has.

It's the amount of flow, amps, that make the wire heat up. The heat limit on the wire is what makes the wire limited to 15 amps or 20 amps etc.

Now, POWER = voltage * amperage. A motor takes a certain amount of POWER to run. Therefore, if you can double the voltage, you cut the amperage (the limiting factor for wire!) in half.

In order to make a circuit 240 volts, all you have to do is replace the circuit breaker from a 120V breaker to a 240V breaker. The 240V breaker uses two spaces, so you need an extra open space, or you can make your 120V ones half-size thus freeing up a space. Then you have to change out the receptacles for 240V ones. That's literally it. You have to make sure each receptacle on the circuit is changed. Of course you need to look at your wire and make sure it's 12 gauge (you indicated it's a 20A circuit, so it should be).

I just installed a sub-panel in my garage and 8 circuits, and done extensive electrical work previously.

If I only had 60A total to work with, I absolutely would be attempting to MINIMIZE the amperage use of all my tools. I'd do this by running everything I could at 240 V.

You could satisfy yourself (as an owner) via purchase of one $8 book at Home Depot or 1 hour reading on the web, and do it yourself for $35 or so. I literally could walk out to my garage and change out a 120V circuit for 240 and replace all the receptacles on that circuit, in 20 minutes, and I'm just a handyman. Or as noted above, you could have an electrician do this for cheap if you don't feel comfortable or confidant in this area, but it truly is not usually a limiting factor.

Go to the WORKSHOPS forum and search that one using "220V" and "240v" and "circuits" etc., there are some great threads there with every thing you need to know.

[Van Huskey]

Giving a hard budget is tough, since its been suggested some of my assumptions have been wrong--particularly WRT replacing a 120V outlet with a 220V. I had assumed that that would be tougher than someone else suggested. Do iron wheels and trunions really make a big difference? Did see the sub-700 polar bear GO513P.

Upper end, I think, is $2000, delivered, but it would have to be a reliable improvement in performance, reliability, user friendliness, capacity, etc. Spending less on competent performance would be nice, but not at the expense of enormous hassles.


Obviously, the first thing to do would be to truely figure your electrical situation out, if you can have 220V and roughly $2,000 (or even $1,500) on the top end you have a whole other world out there.

Next someone mentioned the reviews of Laguna, two things, one Laguna bandsaws rarely if EVER get a poor review, most of the Laguna reviews that are negative are centered around their non-bandsaw Asian import machines and/or the customer service. I would not hesitate to buy anything bandsaw related from them, they along with Agazzani and Minimax import some of the best bandsaws to North America.

If you get the 220V sorted I would suggest you look at the Grizzly 514X2 and the Rikon 18" saw both are great values and offer a huge increase in capacity over most 14" saws. So I say take a look at 220v and from that define where you are at in terms of what saws to look at.

[Prashun Patel]

A lot of people rave about their Rikons or Grizzly's in the mid/low price range. I have the G0555. I wish I had a larger saw or at least the G0555x. However, the resale on these is decent and to be fair I've been able to (STUPIDLY) plow through 6" logs with a wimpy 1/4" blade on my saw, so I gotta say it's a pretty fine and reliable saw.

I do believe that any bandsaw will require tweaking when changing blades. You'll have to get comfortable with checking traction, setting tension, and moving the bearings.

[Bijesh Jacob]

I have been looking at the Hammer N4400 bandsaw and Geoff in felderusa (who btw has been real great to deal with) send me some pictures of the new version.

Specs from Geoff
- 12" Re-saw capacity
- Foot break with limit switch
- Tilting to 22.5 degree with scale readout
- Tilting to 45 degree without the scale readout
- Limit switch on the door
- Doors need to be opened with a key due to new regulations
- Top and bottom guides
- Drift adjustment can be done by adjusting the rail the fence would mount on, if required.

Probably more expensive than some of the other options discussed but seems to be like a real solid machine. I am hoping to see one in person during the felder open house.

[Van Huskey]

I have been looking at the Hammer N4400 bandsaw and Geoff in felderusa (who btw has been real great to deal with) send me some pictures of the new version.

Specs from Geoff
- 12" Re-saw capacity
- Foot break with limit switch
- Tilting to 22.5 degree with scale readout
- Tilting to 45 degree without the scale readout
- Limit switch on the door
- Doors need to be opened with a key due to new regulations
- Top and bottom guides
- Drift adjustment can be done by adjusting the rail the fence would mount on, if required.

Probably more expensive than some of the other options discussed but seems to be like a real solid machine. I am hoping to see one in person during the felder open house.


The N4400 is probably the best buy in "light weight" medium wheel sized (for hobby shops) Euro saws. The Minimax S45N is one of the few others imported in this class and costs a few hundred dollars more, I think Eagle imports an Agazzani in this class as well but I haven't seen it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Bijesh, I've looked at the N4400 a few times, I think it's the best bargain in that size of bandsaws.

Nice guides, good quality and quality control, as well as great service and support.

Note the word service, if you have warranty problems with the machine Felder will fix it, as opposed to you having to fix it.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. Hammer only have the 4 HP 230 volt motor available, so it wouldn't be a good choice for the OP who wants a 120 volt saw.