No spare in a new car.

[Dave Lehnert]

My mom just purchased a new Chevy Malibu 2010, Doing my regular going over everything new I discovered It has no spare tire. They now put in a air pump/ fix a flat sort of device. I asked the Salesman (who was new) and seemed surprised no spare in trunk. Had to go ask about it.
Called parts dept at the dealer and they guy in parts had no idea they did not come with a spare. A spare from a 2009 model is $249:eek: If I had ordered the car to be built, could have got one for $100

Called a large junk yard (very reputable ) and that guy had no idea no spare was offered. Sure enough his inventory showed nothing available.

Did a search on the Net and looks like Ford also does not put one in some models.

Did you buy a new car in the last year or two? Are you sure you have a spare?

[Scott Donley]

I bought a new truck last year and have never looked to see if I had one, just assumed, just went and looked and it has one.:cool:

[Wayne Hendrix]

My 2010 RAV4 has one but the Sport model is available without one and makes up for it with run flat tires. It makes me laugh, the people with the spare complain about the appearance of the spare on the tailgate and the people without the spare complain about stiff ride of the run flats.

[Mike Cutler]

Dave

Many new cars are shipping without spares, or they are an option.
If the car has no spare, like my 2007 Mini Cooper S, it usually ships with runflat tires.
The gotcha here is that the sidewall stiffness of a runflat is such that a flat tire will not be apparent by eye. Ergo, the cars also have an onboard TPMS system to let you know that one of your tires is losing, or lost pressure.
Run Flats are pretty $$$, at least for a Mini Cooper, and even though you can drive up to 80 miles on them when completely flat, you would be destroying the tire in the process.
If I had the space for a spare in my Mini, you can believe I'd have a spare. In absensce of that, I have a portable compressor, fix a flat, and a AAA membership.
If the car can hold a spare, I'd put one in, especially since it appears that the Malibu did not ship with runflats. A cheesy compressor and a can of fix a flat is kind of weak for a new car.

[Matt Meiser]

I've never heard of it, but in some ways it makes sense. That's a lot of dead weight to carry around and statistically I'd bet they are very rarely used anymore. Most people couldn't change a tire if they tried, not that they would. Might as well get the 1% or so extra mileage.

[Jason Roehl]

I guarantee you that a bunch of these 5'2" 110-lb soccer moms I see running around in 3/4-ton trucks wouldn't be able to change one of those 8-lug tires with nuts (properly) torqued to 140 ft-lbs. I've had 4-way lug wrenches start to bend on me, and I even changed a couple tires for a little old lady former neighbor of mine (1/2-ton van) on which my 500 ft-lb impact wrench took a while to break loose a couple of the nuts (dang tire stores will let anyone change a tire anymore).

Our '05 Chrysler minivan has a donut spare between and below the front seats, with a lowering mechanism between the seats inside (it's kind of like an oversized router lift...)

[Joel Goodman]

Just got a little 1 series BMW -- no spare --"run flat" tires. But at least it's got a manual transmission! If the tire pressure goes down you get warning lights and its quite a chore to reset them. Apparently it doesn't know what the pressure is but senses the loss of pressure. My was down by 2 pounds and the warning was triggered and after putting air in I had to get the dealer to reset the thing for one of the tires. I think we're at the sad place where no one will be able to do anything but navigate computer displays.
I'd rather have a spare! And a jack! And a wrench!
Sorry for the rant.

[Dan Hintz]

Dave,

Look for states that require a spare by law (such as MD)... when I picked up my 370Z, the spare was $100 but was not optional here.

[Mark Beall]

If you have room for a full size spare, you might want to call up tirerack (www.tirerack.com) and they can probably sell you a mounted tire. I'd call them up anyhow, they might also sell compact spares if that's what you need.

mark

[Chuck Wintle]

My mom just purchased a new Chevy Malibu 2010, Doing my regular going over everything new I discovered It has no spare tire. They now put in a air pump/ fix a flat sort of device. I asked the Salesman (who was new) and seemed surprised no spare in trunk. Had to go ask about it.
Called parts dept at the dealer and they guy in parts had no idea they did not come with a spare. A spare from a 2009 model is $349:eek: If I had ordered the car to be built, could have got one for $100

Called a large junk yard (very reputable ) and that guy had no idea no spare was offered. Sure enough his inventory showed nothing available.

Did a search on the Net and looks like Ford also does not put one in some models.

Did you buy a new car in the last year or two? Are you sure you have a spare?
now I remember why I gave up on GM products! That is absolutely stupid to not provide a real spare.

[Dave Lehnert]

I have to agree to a point about most people not changing a tire themselves.
I have AAA and most likely call and have them do it if I were on a highway. BUT........If I have no spare and the hole in the tire is too big what is AAA going to do? They will have to tow me to a tire shop or dealer for a fix. If I had a spare I could get on my way and fix it the next day or when ever I had the time.

Little things like this just get under my skin.

[Chris Kennedy]

I've never heard of it, but in some ways it makes sense. That's a lot of dead weight to carry around and statistically I'd bet they are very rarely used anymore. Most people couldn't change a tire if they tried, not that they would.

Really? Usually I'm pretty cynical, but I am not certain I agree.

I'm 35, and I changed my first tire when I was 18. I did it at about 10PM on the side of a Budapest freeway just after Christmas kneeling in a mixture of mud and snow. I had never done it before, but it isn't rocket science (I'll admit -- I made the mistake of cranking the car up on the jack and then trying to break the lugs free -- damn you Newton and your third law!).

I changed my second when I was in my late 20's. It was a Friday, and that afternoon it was the weekly get together for faculty at the pub. My wife and I were late because of the tire change, and when we told the story, everybody had their own story of tire changes, and the age of that crowd ran from mid 20's to 60's. But everybody had done it.

Last Spring, one of my students was having issues with one of her tires, and other students were explaining how to change the tire should the need arise. They were all well versed.

Cheers,

Chris

[Shawn Christ]

That sucks! Our 2008 Malibu came with a spare... it also has a tire pressure monitoring system. If they're giving you a can of fix-a-flat that pretty much ruins your ability to patch a tire in the future, right? I'd talk to the dealer; since they didn't mention a spare tire is now an option maybe you can work something out.

[Joe Pelonio]

That sucks! Our 2008 Malibu came with a spare... it also has a tire pressure monitoring system. If they're giving you a can of fix-a-flat that pretty much ruins your ability to patch a tire in the future, right? I'd talk to the dealer; since they didn't mention a spare tire is now an option maybe you can work something out.
The law required the TPMS on all new cars starting in 2007.

On both my Ranger and my wife's Liberty we paid additional for a full-sized spare that's mounted on the same styled wheel to match, but that's fairly commom on 4 wheel drives. I'm glad this "no spare" thing was shared, I'd
be more than annoyed if it didn't have one on a new car that I just paid over 20,000 for.

Dave,

Does your Mom still have the window sticker? I'd love to see what that says about it, if anything.

[Bob Turkovich]

I've never heard of it, but in some ways it makes sense. That's a lot of dead weight to carry around and statistically I'd bet they are very rarely used anymore........ Might as well get the 1% or so extra mileage.

Bingo!!!! Your CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) requirements at work, folks!! (Although it's probably less than 0.05mpg improvement- but that really does matter!!) Also sometimes used to bring a vehicle down to a lower emission weight test class (or more often is that you had to add something else to a vehicle to meet other requirements and this keeps you from going to a higher weight class).

Typically, you'll see this approach on smaller vehicles.

[Chris Padilla]

2001 BMW 530i: full spare.
2006 Toyota Tacoma: full spare.

Newer BMWs are coming with run-flats. Some of the higher performance BMWs (M5, for example) come with an electric pump and goo.

[Stephen Tashiro]

What is the plumbing for a Tire Pressure Monitoring System like? Is there some sort of air hose that is actually connected to the inside of the tire? Or is there a sensor on the rim that sends an electrical signal back to the engine compartment? And how would that be wired? Or is it wireless?

[Bob Turkovich]

What is the plumbing for a Tire Pressure Monitoring System like? Is there some sort of air hose that is actually connected to the inside of the tire? Or is there a sensor on the rim that sends an electrical signal back to the engine compartment? And how would that be wired? Or is it wireless?

Stephen,

Google "Tire Pressure Monitoring System" and click on the Wikipedia link. Lots of different ways to do it.

Wasn't my area of expertise, but I didn't know there were aftermarket versions of these available. Never been too keen on aftermarket add-ons since they rarely do the amount of testing (usually because they do not have the test facilities) as the OEM's do.

[David Weaver]

I've changed to spares twice in the last 10 years. I'll gladly have them in the car and pay for them.

If I got a car like that and they wanted $349 for a spare, though, I would write an extremely nasty letter to the company, and go buy a wheel and tire from a yard.

[Dave Lehnert]

First I made a correction in my first post. The spare from parts Dept is $249 not $349 I first posted:o

Yes, Have the window sticker. It clearly says "Tire Sealant & inflator kit in place of spare. then again under options it says Spare tire and wheel not desired.

I was with her when looking at cars. What happened was we looked at all the cars they had on the lot. She had a color and heated seats she wanted and no moon roof. We test drove a like car then went in to order what we wanted. A little later the sales manager drove around a new 2010 he had just received from a closing dealer exactly what she wanted but did have a moon roof. He was able to give her a very good deal because it was a 2010 so she pulled the trigger. I did not read the sticker on that model. Only gave it a quick going over to make sure it was a 2LT

I did ask a local tire dealer last time I purchased tires if it was a problem to use Fix-A-Flat. He said no, use it if needed. Did make it more difficult to patch but nothing they could could not handle.

She, and I, love the car. It is one sweet ride. Just kinda gets under your skin this sort of thing.










The law required the TPMS on all new cars starting in 2007.

On both my Ranger and my wife's Liberty we paid additional for a full-sized spare that's mounted on the same styled wheel to match, but that's fairly commom on 4 wheel drives. I'm glad this "no spare" thing was shared, I'd
be more than annoyed if it didn't have one on a new car that I just paid over 20,000 for.

Dave,

Does your Mom still have the window sticker? I'd love to see what that says about it, if anything.

[Rick Potter]

My daughter was on vacation pulling her 19' trailer with a Chevy Blazer, and she had a flat on the trailer. No problem, because I had outfitted the trailer with a spare (optional).

Oh, oh. There were TWO flats on the trailer, the first went flat, and the extra weight on the other one on that side caused it to blow out too. Sometimes it doesn't pay to try to be prepared.

BTW, this happened on a busy interstate, just outside Boston. Hardly any shoulder to the road, raining hard, 5:00 rush hour, two little girls in the car, and getting dark. Called auto club, and they said they DID NOT SERVICE THAT AREA, and gave us phone numbers of tire stores. All were out of business or closed at 5. One place we called took pity on her and called a guy they knew with a tow truck who graciously brought us back two new tires and one wheel to replace the one that bent in the blow out. Thanks for nothin' AAA....she had bought the special RV coverage for this trip.

Rick Potter

[Mike Cutler]

What is the plumbing for a Tire Pressure Monitoring System like? Is there some sort of air hose that is actually connected to the inside of the tire? Or is there a sensor on the rim that sends an electrical signal back to the engine compartment? And how would that be wired? Or is it wireless?


Stephen

Following the Ford/Firestone fiasco TPMS systems were mandated for new cars. At least that's the popular explanation. They were already in use in Euope and Japan, so I think it was only a matter of time before they would have been on all vehicles regardless ofthe Ford/Firestone issue.
The first systems sensed the height of the tire, and another measured the rotation of the tire. The more advanced measured actual tire pressure.
1/2 way through the 2007 year it became mandated that all vehicles had to have direct pressure monitoring systems, so there are a few different systems out there.
The pressure sensing device is mounted inside the rim and the signal is transmitted wirelessely. The valve stem is the transmitter antenna.
Some cars just indicate a flat or low pressure requiring you to measure each tire to find the one low on pressure, some are more advanced and indicate which tire is low on pressure.

Here is the rub though. Not all "Fix-A-Flat" type products are safe to use with a TPMS system utilizing the valve stem as the transmitter,and will actually ruin the antenna, thus requiring replacement. This can add $30-$50.00 to the cost of tire replacement.
Another issue is that not all tire centers are equipped to deal with the TPMS sensors and run flats, if used, so you have to make sure prior to having them do work. I'm certain that this gap will be closed very quickly though.

I'll take Bob's word for it that CAFE requirements have a big part in it. The cynic in me believes it's purely profit based.

I like the TPMS system.

[Dan Hintz]

Mike,

I don't think it's the antenna so much as the air port that the fix-a-flat gunks up...

[Lee Schierer]

Maybe I'm luckier than the average woodworker when it comes to tires, but I can remember the last time I needed to use a spare tire on any of my vehicles. It was on my 2005 Mazda 6 about a month after we bought it we hit a nail or piece of metal on the road and it cut the sidewall of the tire. That was over 5 years and 66,000 miles ago. On my other vehicles I have never used the spare and the car I owned previous to the Mazda 6 we put on 120K miles and the spare had never been out of the trunk. Since I purchased my first car over 40 years ago, I can only recall using the spare maybe 2 or 3 times.

[Jeff Monson]

With tire psi monitor systems nowdays, there are alot more tires getting repaired before they are driven on and ruined, thus the need for a spare should be greatly reduced. Obviously there is still the case of road hazards, and that is where a spare is needed. I can say I'm in the lucky category also, my spares rarely get used.

I have had 2 tire repairs this summer though, with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tires, its hard to tell if a tire is low on air. Thats where the monitors are really nice.

I would agree the vast majority of people out there today could not change a spare if they had to...but still no reason to delete it from a new vehicle. All my vehicles have spares, trailers too, wouldnt be caught without one anymore.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks for nothin' AAA....she had bought the special RV coverage for this trip.

Rick Potter

AAA upset me quite a bit a few years ago. It wasn't in regard to their road service but more of a customer service thing regarding traveler's checks when I visited my local branch. That was one year of wasted dues...but it remained only 1 year. :rolleyes:

My car's clutch died several weeks ago while my wife was driving but she was close to home (< 1 mile). So I call my insurance company to get assistance with a tow to my mechanic. "Sorry, Sir, we don't provide a list of references because due to the liability blah blah blah...." I didn't hear him much after the word liability was completed because I was instantly upset. I wonder if I was stuck out in the middle of a desert somewhere that they wouldn't help me get a lousy tow truck. Gee, am I supposed to make sure I have towing companies with me wherever I go? I wrote my insurance company a letter about that one and I seriously doubt they'll get my money come renewal time....

[Marty Paulus]

Stephen

Following the Ford/Firestone fiasco TPMS systems were mandated for new cars. At least that's the popular explanation. They were already in use in Euope and Japan, so I think it was only a matter of time before they would have been on all vehicles regardless ofthe Ford/Firestone issue.
The first systems sensed the height of the tire, and another measured the rotation of the tire. The more advanced measured actual tire pressure.
1/2 way through the 2007 year it became mandated that all vehicles had to have direct pressure monitoring systems, so there are a few different systems out there.
The pressure sensing device is mounted inside the rim and the signal is transmitted wirelessely. The valve stem is the transmitter antenna.
Some cars just indicate a flat or low pressure requiring you to measure each tire to find the one low on pressure, some are more advanced and indicate which tire is low on pressure.

Here is the rub though. Not all "Fix-A-Flat" type products are safe to use with a TPMS system utilizing the valve stem as the transmitter,and will actually ruin the antenna, thus requiring replacement. This can add $30-$50.00 to the cost of tire replacement.
Another issue is that not all tire centers are equipped to deal with the TPMS sensors and run flats, if used, so you have to make sure prior to having them do work. I'm certain that this gap will be closed very quickly though.

I'll take Bob's word for it that CAFE requirements have a big part in it. The cynic in me believes it's purely profit based.

I like the TPMS system.

CAFE has a lot to do with it. If some of you will check in your newer vehicles I am sure your power outlet shuts off with the ignition as well. I was told this little feature is for fuel economy as well. It is all about how many MPG you can squeeze out of the vehicle. The mass of the vehicle is critical and yes that spare (even the doughnut good for 50 miles POS spare) is subject to mass reductions in vehicles. 0.1 MPG may be the difference in one vehicle saying they get better milage then the other. It sad but true.

[Colin Giersberg]

Even if you do have a spare in your vehicle, do you know that it still is fully inflated. I was driving my wife's car in a town a couple of years ago and we had a flat by running over a crescent wrench. After pulling over at a service station to change the tire, I found out that the spare tire had low pressure. I pulled over to an air pump, paid my quarter, and tried to inflate the tire. I actually inflated the air pump, because it was very weak, and the low pressure got even lower in the tire. I then went to another service station, and managed to get a little more air in it. When I got home, I fired up my compressor and finished inflating the tire.Better check those spares for air, or it will do you no good.Regards, Colin

[Callan Campbell]

BMW has been doing this for years. They and others practically started the air compressor and fix-a-flat trend hiding in your trunk, then moved onto run-flat tires when that didn't go over so well. All the electronics in vehicle take up room, and the spare tire and jack cost money, so it's been a slippery slope to "write" off putting them in vehicles. The car company I work for still has either full size spares or almost full size temporary's. But, this could change in a model year/drop of the hat.
Insurance companies hate the spares mounted on the rear of a vehicle, thieves love the low mounted spare tires under a vehicle, and car companies just seem to want to cut them from the build list. Meanwhile, we're the ones stuck with no spares, or a very expensive run-flat tire that's usually not in stock like a regular tire. :rolleyes:

[Tom Godley]

I have had a few cars over the years that came w/o spares and a few that had blow up spares that were worthless. Some cars don't have the room to cary an extra tire in the size installed -- in addition all the electronics and awd systems go crazy in many vehicles if you install a tire that is smaller - like a donut. I have taken trips in cars set up this way and you do think about the possibilities.


As someone who deals with catastrophic injuries -- I have a rule at home and my office. No changing a tire on the side of a road. I don't care what happens to the tire or rim - everyone is told to get themselves off the highway.

I always cringe when I see people on the side of the road changing a tire.

[Dan Hintz]

Another side note to add to everyone else's...

Don't forget that a number of spare tires are only designed for one wheel (usually the front)... if you get a flat on the back tire, you have to move one of your front tires to the back and put the spare on the front. Double the work :(

[Brian Elfert]

Some vehicles with spare tires do have a tire pressure monitor on the space. I've known people who couldn't figure out why the low pressure alert was on and finally realized it was the spare tire.

[Van Huskey]

The first car I bought with no spare was a 2004 BMW M3, it came with no spare for two reasons:

1. The front and rear tires are different sizes
2. Weight, though porcine compared to cars of the past it is a car they were very careful with weight and balance when building

Since all runflat tires pay a performance penalty it did not come with them BUT it has free roadside assistance for life for tire issues, not just the normal 5 years for the rest of the car. It did come with a compressor and some of that tire seal goo.

I don't like being without a spare on a long trip but for day to day driving I think it is a relative non-issue.

[Van Huskey]

Newer BMWs are coming with run-flats. Some of the higher performance BMWs (M5, for example) come with an electric pump and goo.

Didn't read your post under after I posted about my goo. Interestingly enough my E36 M3 (1995) came with not only a full sized spare but it was mounted on the same M-sport rim as the other 4. Which in that case helped the fussy German engineers get 50/50 weight distribution. Man I loved that car, the best drivers car belted for 5 I have ever driven. With the transplant of a German spec 3.2L, 3.23 rear end, BBK and the infamous "trunk parts" and wheels from the M3 LTW it became my trackday car until it had a serious date with "Miss Armco".

[Brian Elfert]

I have a motorhome with really large wheels that weigh upwards of 200 lbs each. I carry a spare, but no way to actually install the spare.

The lug buts are torqued to 500 ft lbs so I will have roadside assistance send a tire guy if I ever need my spare. It isn't worth the money or space to carry the necessary tools.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Stephen
The pressure sensing device is mounted inside the rim and the signal is transmitted wirelessely.

Does the pressure sensing device run on its own little battery? A battery like a watch battery?