Lets talk bandsaw blades!

[Van Huskey]

First, let me say I do not claim to be a bandsaw blade expert but I am planning to share the conventional wisdom and personal experience I have gleened over the years. Feel free to point out where your experience or understanding of conventional wisdom differs from mine.

Cliff's Notes at the bottom by the way!

I have always loved bandsaws partly because they are so versatile and partly due to the fact that they are surrounded by as much mystery as science. Although, most bandsaw issues can be traced to a common logical cause there is still a level of black art associated with excellent results for even the most common usage. This extends, possibly even more so, to the blades. This may be the machine that is common in many hobby shops where there is the most confusion and contempt for the tooling it uses. With the table saw if we want to cut plywood we can just go to the Freud, Forrest et al catalog and pick out a blade that is listed for plywood or simply look on the package or blade, this extends to just about every cut and material we could make on a table saw. With bands for a bandsaw it becomes more difficult.

When we go to buy a bandsaw blade we have a myriad of factors to consider, length, width, backing gauge, kerf, set, type of teeth, material, pitch along with other qualities.


1. Length. The length of a blade is governed by the saw itself and will be listed on the saw or in the literature. By far the most common sizes are the 93 1/2" and 105" blades, the former is the standard size for a 14" cast clone without a riser and the later the same saw with a riser installed. You can vary a small amount on either side but it is best to stay with the suggested length (or if a range is given near the middle) since too long or short of a band can prevent you from properly tensioning the blade or even getting it on the saw.


2. Width. The width of the bandsaw blade is also a fairly easy specification to choose. There are three basic cuts that one will make on a bandsaw: resaw, rip and contour (I have left out specialized cuts like dovetails because everyone seems to have a different band that is their favorite if they do a lot of these). You will see as I go through the cuts there is a desire for wide blades, this is due to the fact that wider blades, properly tensioned, will have higher beam strengths and thus resist deflection better than thinner blades.

A. For resaw get the widest blade you saw can tension correctly. I have found that all but a very few steel spined saws will correctly tension the size blade the manufacturer says they will tension, the exceptions are the IMPORTED PM 14" steel spine and the Jet non-triangle steel spined saws, the former is not in production and the latter has been "cured" in current form with a redesigned triangular spine. For cast clones I do not recommend larger than a 1/2" .022 gauge or 5/8" .016 gauge blade. (gauge is important because thick blade takes more absolute pressure to reach the required PSI than a thin blade).

B. For ripping the same criteria apply, widest blade you can properly tension on your saw.

C. For contour cutting the optimum width is the widest blade that will still cut the tighest diameter contour your cut requires, still limited at the top by the tensioning ability of the saw and on the bottom by the minimum width the wheel/tire and the guides will allow, the minimum width can usually be reduced with accessories such as a Carter Stabilzer. I will list a basic diameter chart:

3/32" blade 1/8" D
1/8" blade 3/8" D
1/4" blade 1" D
1/2" blade 2 1/2" D
5/8" blade 3 3/4" D
3/4" blade 5 1/2" D

One last issue with blade width, besides being able to correctly tension a given width you also must be able to get the blade on and off of the saw, I have seen a couple of saws which it was difficult or near impossible to get the max width blade it was advertised to handle on and off without forcing or damaging the blade at some point in the ingress/egress path.

3. Blade material. Blades are also categorized by the type of material used for the backing/teeth or in the case of "carbide" blades the tooth material. The common types of blade materials encountered by woodworkers are, spring steel, silicon steel, carbon steel, bimetal and carbide tipped.

A. Spring steel teeth Rc 36-42. (A word about Rockwell Hardness, note that a 1 point increase on the scale doubles the abrasion resistence of the material). Spring steel is what the cheapo blades are made out of. It is unlikely that anyone reading this has any use for a spring steel blade. Very sharp initially, but the edge lasts about the time it takes to adjust the guides on the saw...

B. Spring steel with hardened teeth, teeth hardness Rc 48-50. These are most commonly encountered as thin kerf "resaw" blades. The Woodslicer (Highland Woodworking), Blade Runner (Iturra) and Kerfmaster (Spectrum Supply) are all examples of this type of blade. This blade came to us from the butcher industry. Be aware these blades have a very minimal kerf and thus should NOT be used for green wood nor will they cut contours well! It has three main benefits, it is very sharp to begin with, aiding low HP saws, the thin beam allows a given saw to tension a wider blade and with its minimal set and its thin gauge backing allows for a very thin kerf, saving wood from precious blanks. If you do not require one or more of the above listed benefits look elsewhere as these blades are false economy for you. Initially EXTREMELY sharp but dull faster then all but non-hardened spring steel.

C. Carbon steel, teeth hardness Rc 63-64. This is the standard workhorse of woodworking blades and produced in many configurations. They tend to be good inexpensive blades that are great to have in the configurations you use but not often since high usage blades are more economical if bought in Bimetal or carbide tipped. You may see them listed as flexback, this refers to the soft backing material made to reduce fatigue over smaller wheeled bandsaws. Be aware there are hardbacked blades as well BUT outside a production environment they are not needed and not desired unless your band is at a minamum 15' long, an example of this is the Lenox #32 Wood. Moderately sharp initially, dulls slower than silicon steel and faster than bi-metal.

D. Silicon or Swedish steel, teeth hardness Rc 60-61. This is a type of blade I avoid, it doesn't outlast carbon steel blades and the cost is usually significantly more and though it is initially very sharp it dulls quicker than carbon. At least one manufacturer claims the benefit of low tension but as I have said several times here I see no logical argument or proof shown that supports the low tension claim or the claims they make regarding the other benefits of low tension for their blade. YMMV. Initially, very sharp but dull quickly, faster than carbon.

E. Bimetal teeth Rc 65-66. Bimetal blades have a strip of HSS welded to, usually, a carbon back and results in a cost effective blade with very durable teeth who's backing is soft enough not to fatigue on small wheels. I would suggest if you actually USE your bandsaw and if you don't like to waste money every blade that you use often (except maybe your resaw blade) should be a bimetal blade if the configuration is manufactured in bimetal. Bimetal blades will outlast carbon blades 8-10 times and though "duller" initially than all but carbide blades they stay sharp longer than all but carbide blades. Be aware bimetal blades need more tension than a carbon steel blade 20,000-25,000 PSI versus 15,000, I often tension at or close to the next blade size up on the tension scale.

F. Carbide tipped blades Rc 68. These are blades with carbide teeth brazed onto backing material and can/should be sharpened to a very polished edge like a table saw blade. These blades though expensive are the kings of resaw and will outlast bimetal blades 3-4 times. They are initially the "dullest" of the types of blades I have discussed but will stay sharp enough to cut very well much longer than any of the others. Tension requirements are in the 25,000 PSI range and I generally tension them one size up on the saws scale. There are also brazed on stellite toothed blades, I am not aware of any current blade marketed for wood cutting that has stellite teeth, it is not quite as hard as carbide but more shock resistent. Also, be aware there are entire books written about the myriad types of carbide and its use in tooling but since the number of wood-centric carbide bandsaw blades is fairly small I have just used personal experience as opposed to researching the type of carbide each uses, plus manufacturers are often tight lipped about these things. Suffice it to say all the carbide BS blades I have used seem to wear at seemingly similar rates. I tend to look at these as resaw only blades BUT if one does a lot of ripping, particularly high silica content wood, they make excellent ripping blades and could be cost effective as well.


4. Gauge. Gauge is the thickness of the backing material and is the number you see in blade charts, usually from about .016-.050 for woodworking blades, often identified in the chart as thickness. It is important as it in part determines the beam strength as well as how much absolute force is needed to get the proper tension on the blade. The thicker the gauge the more likely it is to fatigue on smaller wheels. There are some guidelines as to which wheel sizes are "required" for certain gauges BUT as a Lenox tech told me "everyone breaks them" I won't bother. I will say for saws with smaller than 16" wheels IF you have a choice of backer gauge for a specific blade get the thinner material. Be aware that gauge is NOT kerf the kerf includes the set of the teeth, however in general terms the thicker the gauge the thicker the kerf though not 100%. I mention this because kerf is not given for many blades in the company literature.


5. Tooth set. First, understand there is an amount of set and a type of set. Teeth on all the blade materials I have discussed except carbide tipped are formed in one of several ways then bent outward to the left and right of the blade centerline, the outward bend determines the amount of set. This is the reason the kerf is wider than the backing material. Set is important as it reduces friction by ensuring the backing material doesn't contact the band in a straight cut and allows the backing material to pivot within the kerf in a contour cut. This is the reason a blade with minamal set (like the Woodslicer and its cousins) is a poor contour blade.

There are two basic TYPES of set associated with wood bandsaw blades, alternate and raker. In an alternate set every other tooth is bent out in the same direction away from the centerline, the other half of the teeth are bent the opposite direction away from the centerline. In a raker set some teeth are not bent outward but some are left in the center to "rake" waste out of the cut. In general you see raker sets in aggressive blades like hook and skip. The type of set is almost always listed in blade specs, the amount of set is less likely to be mentioned. Normally, if all the other specs say it is the correct blade for a particular use the amount of set will fit the bill.


6. Tooth shape or rake. Most bandsaw blades have either a 0 degree rake or a slight positive rake (around +5 degrees). To "see" rake think of a wave on the ocean, a 0 degree rake is when the tip top of the wave is straight up from the ocean surface, a positive rake is when the tip is starting to "break" over. The more positive rake the more agressive the blade, normally standard and skip blades have 0 degree rake, hook blades have positive rakes, usually around 5 degrees.


7. Tooth form. There are basically three types of tooth forms used in wood cutting bandsaw blades, standard, skip and hook (listed from least to most aggressive).

A. standard. The standard tooth blade has teeth evenly spaced close together, 0 degree rake and small gullets. These are best for small contours and any sort of cross grain cut and leave the smoothest finish of the three forms.

B. Skip. The skip tooth blade has teeth with the same shape/rake as standard but every other tooth missing, this leaves a larger gullet between the teeth, it is more aggressive than the standard blade.

C. Hook. The hook tooth blade adds a positive rake to a skip tooth blade. It is the most agressive of the three and has the largest gullets for ship removal. Best suited to heavy ripping and resawing. Leaves the roughest finish of the three.


8. Pitch. Pitch is the number of teeth per inch (TPI) of a blade. In general the more teeth the finer the cut, low TPI blades will cut quicker but not leave as fine a finish. The rule of thumb is no fewer then 3 teeth in the stock (so 1" stock should be cut with 3 TPI minimum and 3/4" stock a 4 TPI minimum etc). The lower the TPI generally the larger the gullets, so for softwoods I have found going one TPI down from what I would use in hardwood is useful even if it breaks the rule of thumb and if you are cutting extremely dense hardwoods going up one TPI can be of help since more teeth work better because there is not as much waste at a given feedrate as with softer material.

There are also variable pitch TPI blades, usually these are blades designed with resaw in mind, in woodworking. In tall resaw cuts blades tend to develop harmonic vibration, much like a guitar string, and variable pitch helps reduce that. Variable pitch blades usually have groups of 3-4 teeth in a row that have the same pitch and gullet depth, then change to a different pitch and gullet size for the next group of teeth. These blade are listed with the 2 pitchs that it contains such as 2-3 TPI or 1.3-3 TPI. There are high TPI variable pitch blades, many of which are designed for metal working, I personally have not seen enough benefit in wood cutting to be worth the extra money.


9. Blade prep and maintainence. When you first get a blade make sure the weld is straight and has been filed smooth, if it is not straight return the blade, if it is not smooth, either return it or gently file it smooth. When you install the blade for the first time, round the back of the blade with a stone while the saw is running. When you store the blade give it a thin coat of rust preventative. When a blade becomes dull replace it, don't push it you won't be happy with the results.


Cliff's notes:


There are a lot of different bandsaw blades and it is easy to feel like you need a different blade for every cut but I find you can do most of your cutting with 3-4 blades:

1. 1/2" 3 TPI Hook, if for a low HP 14" cast clone I would get a .022 gauge Woodslicer et al
2. 1/4" 6 TPI skip or hook
3. 1/8" 14 TPI standard
4. If you have a saw that can tension a bigger blade add a 4th blade, the biggest blade it will tension, hook, variable pitch in the range of 2-3TPI or 1.3-3 TPI (note the Lenox Woodmasters I mention below are NOT available in variable pitch smaller than 2" but they still do a great job in non-variable pitch)

For a cast clone I would get the 1/2" in a hardened spring steel as mentioned but the 1/4" in bimetal and the 1/8" in carbon. If you do a lot of resawing on a cast clone I would try a thin gauge 1/2" bimetal blade maybe a .025 4 TPI hook Lenox Diemaster 2.

For steel spined saws all the blades (except the 1/8") would be bimetal unless you want to spend the money on a carbide resaw blade.


Specific recomendations:

For smaller than 1/4" blades I like Starrett carbon

For 1/4"-1/2" general purpose I like the bimetal Lenox Diemaster 2

For 1/2-5/8" resaw blades I like the spring steel Kerfmaster, Woodslicer Bladerunner, again these are recommended for 14" cast clones

For 3/4" and up resaw blades I like four, the Lenox Woodmaster B (bimetal only in 1" and up), Lenox Woodmaster CT (carbide 1" and up), Lenox Trimaster (carbide 3/4" and up) and the Laguna Resaw King 3/4"-1 1/4". The Laguna has the benefit of being the only one that you can get resharpened.


Again, please point out where your opinion or your understanding differs and if you have additional info please post it. If you have questions about BS blades ask them, if I can't answer them I am sure someone here can!

[bob hertle]

Great job Van. Your summary will undoubtedly help the less experienced bandsaw owners. I agree with about 90% of what you said. Everybody's experience is going to be a little different. Can't really comment on the "Woodslicer" genre of blades, since I've not used them, in fact I've not used any .022 or .016 blades. I think the fact that they dull so fast, is a turnoff for me. I agree that bi-metal is the sweet spot, and I also like Lenox blades. But, AFAIK, you can't get the Lenox Diemaster 1/2" in any coarser than 6 hook in a .025" thick band. Their 1/2" 3 hook is a .035" thick backer requiring higher tensions and a bit thick for everyday use on a 14" wheel. To fill the 1/2" 3TPI hook need, I suggest the Olson MVP 1/2"-3 hook bimetal. This is a relatively thin kerf (.039") .025" thick cobalt high speed blade that cuts very freely, and lasts forever (almost!) With it's thin kerf, this is definitely not a contouring blade.

I have one other blade that I love for deep (over 10 inches) resaws. I take a 5/8"-3 hook .025 thick Olson carbon blade and alter it by: 1- grinding off every other tooth, and 2. regrinding the tooth form to 6.5 degree hook from the stock 10 degrees. This blade cuts quiet and smooth.

For the rest of my bandsaw work, 90% is done with:
1/8"-14 carbon
1/4"-6 hook bimetal
1/2"-6 hook or 6/10VP (for general purpose)
1/2"-3 hook bi-metal

One other observation: Standard or skip (0 degree hook) teeth leave a better finish, especially cross grain, than hook teeth. The Trimanster is an exception here because the tooth is ground all over and has no set, only back clearance. I have a Trimaster, but I've reground it twice, and that's about all I'm going to get out of it! I don't think I'll buy again, I'll stick to bi-metal.

Regards
Bob

[Van Huskey]

Can't really comment on the "Woodslicer" genre of blades, since I've not used them, in fact I've not used any .022 or .016 blades. I think the fact that they dull so fast, is a turnoff for me.
Bob

They do dull quickly but a lot of people love them and I think they have their place on cast clone saws for resaw. I would make it clear I would not suggest them for anyone that has a saw that can tension a thicker or wider blade.


But, AFAIK, you can't get the Lenox Diemaster 1/2" in any coarser than 6 hook in a .025" thick band.

The Lenox Diemaster 2 is available in 1/2" 4 TPI on a .025" band or it was in the past but not in 3 TPI which is only available in .035". Your suggestion for the Olson MVP is an even better one since it does come in 3 TPI and the Diemaster 2 does not on a thinner backer. The MVP line is also excellent but I have not used it in a while.


One other observation: Standard or skip (0 degree hook) teeth leave a better finish, especially cross grain, than hook teeth. The Trimanster is an exception here because the tooth is ground all over and has no set, only back clearance. I have a Trimaster, but I've reground it twice, and that's about all I'm going to get out of it! I don't think I'll buy again, I'll stick to bi-metal.


Good point about the finish, I meant to mention that, maybe I missed it, don't even feel like looking...:D

For better economy than the Trimaster (though you did well since you reground yourself) you might try the Woodmaster CT it is cheaper than the TM but the narrowest blade is 1" and the 1" doesn't come in VP but the Lenox rep is very high on the 1" 2TPI for resawing, I think it was made for the flooring industry. It has a .051 kerf on .035 backer, I do not think it has a TCG like the TM and it may not have as much carbide to resharpen however, you are one of the VERY few that would be an issue for.

[Chris Parks]

Thanks for the taking the time to write this primer on BS blades. I have not seen it explained so clearly and some authors ought to take note.

[Kevin Groenke]

Great write-up Van, Thanks.

Have you tried the carbide tipped Morse M-Factor-FB (http://www.mkmorse.com/products/index.aspx?product=52)?

This blade was presented to us as an alternative to the TriMaster by our usual blade supplier who does not handle Lenox(BC Saw). I had intended to compare the M-Factor to the Trimaster as soon as the first blade needed replacement, put it's been a couple years and the M-Factor is still going strong. We have the 3/4" at work but that 1/2"x.025" looks quite interesting, I may need to try it on my own home saw. I wonder particularly how that band would do on a 14" iron framed saw.

A 131" M-Factor for our 17" Bridgewood was $145 shipped a couple years ago.

TPI W x Thk(in) W x Thk (mm) Model # Part #
52423 1/2" x .025 12.7 x 0.64 ZCTDA03 803403
52433 3/4" x .035 19 x 0.90 ZCTFA03 805403
52443 1" x .035 27 x 0.90 ZCTGA03 805503
52453 1-1/4" x .042 34 x 1.07 ZCTHA03 806103

It would be great to see a direct comparison between the TriMaster, the WoodmasterCT, the ResawKing, the M-Factor and any other carbide tipped blades available. (Starrett Advanz FS (http://www.starrett.com/download/163_advanzfsdsforweb.pdf), Magnate (http://magnate.net/index.cfm?event=showProductGroup&theID=1188))

-kg

[Van Huskey]

Have you tried the carbide tipped Morse M-Factor-FB (http://www.mkmorse.com/products/index.aspx?product=52)?

We have the 3/4" at work but that 1/2"x.025" looks quite interesting, I may need to try it on my own home saw. I wonder particularly how that band would do on a 14" iron framed saw.

A 131" M-Factor for our 17" Bridgewood was $145 shipped a couple years ago.



It would be great to see a direct comparison between the TriMaster, the WoodmasterCT, the ResawKing, the M-Factor and any other carbide tipped blades available. (Starrett Advanz FS (http://www.starrett.com/download/163_advanzfsdsforweb.pdf), Magnate (http://magnate.net/index.cfm?event=showProductGroup&theID=1188))

-kg

I have only tried the Lenox and Laguna blades. They last so long and cost so much it is hard for a hobby guy like me to do a comparison. On my current saw to do a side by side comparison of the commonly available carbide tipped blades would cost well over $1,000 and be more than a lifetime of blades for me! I didn't even attempt to directly compare the ones I have used since by the time I had another one in my shop the last one was getting too dull to be fair. I got a Trimaster with my current saw but will get a RK when it is spent, it is a fine blade AND when I can get 3 or 4 resharpenings from Laguna for $45 each it really does become the best long term buy at least in my mind.

I think that 1/2" .025" Morse would be one of the better carbide blades on a 14" cast saw, there are a LOT of people using the 3/4" RK from the deals section and no one seems to complain and it is thicker and wider. I personally wouldn't have tried it though.

[Chuck Wintle]

a lot of good info in your post!

[Dave MacArthur]

Great post Van, super helpful. Bookmarked.

[Lewis Ehrhardt]

Thanks Van for sharing your wisdom.
Right now I've got a older model Craftsman 14 inch with the cast alum wheels. I was told it would handle a 3/4 blade.
Your thoughts?
Also, any opinion on the Timberwolf blades? thanks Lewis

[Van Huskey]

Thanks Van for sharing your wisdom.
Right now I've got a older model Craftsman 14 inch with the cast alum wheels. I was told it would handle a 3/4 blade.
Your thoughts?
Also, any opinion on the Timberwolf blades? thanks Lewis


For that saw I would stick with a 1/2" blade unless you get one of the .016" 5/8" blades. There are people that use 3/4" blades and some that even report good luck with 3/4" carbide tipped blades with rather thick (for 14" cast iron saws) backing material. My recommendation is a "safe" bet.

For TW blades see my comments on silicon or Swedish steel blades. In a nutshell I see them as false economy, they have a high initial cost (compared to carbon) and although very sharp initially they dull much quicker than a good carbon steel blade. If your bandsaw does not gather dust most of the time I suggest bimetal blades for any configuration you use often and they are available in. For a general price comparison the TW in 1/2" blades will run you about $20 for your saw if it does not have a riser (93 1/2") and a 1/2" Lenox Diemaster will run you about $35 for a blade that will outlast it numerous times.

[Norman Hitt]

Van, just a FYI,... a few years back on another forum, the subject of rounding the back of BS blades had been discussed quite often and one poster was concerned about doing it to his Trimaster. He contacted Lenox specifically about the Trimaster and reported their reply. Their reply was that they DID NOT recommend ANY grinding on the back of the Trimaster and gave several reasons. (seems like the reasons were specific to the type of metal, but I can't remember for sure). No mention was made for any blades other than the Trimaster so I don't know if that warning held true for any of their other types of blades or not since the reply was specifically addressed to the Trimaster query.

[glenn bradley]

Good stuff Van. Lots of info and clearly presented. Thanks for putting this together as well as sharing (and prompting others to share) actual use experiences.

[Chris Padilla]

I didn't read the whole thing and only skimmed it a bit but my personal findings are that for resawing, going wider isn't necessarily all that it is cracked up to be.

Most who read my posts regarding bandsaw blades know that I really like my Lenox blades and really do not like my Timberwolf blades.

I do mostly resaw on my MM20 so that is where my experiences come into play.

I have a pricey carbide Trimaster that is 1" wide, 1/16" kerf, 2/3 variable pitch and I have a less pricey bimetal Diemaster2 that is 1/2" wide, ~0.032" kerf, 6 tpi, hook style.

From a pure resaw point of view, these two blades perform nearly identical for me. The nod goes to the Trimaster for a slightly smoother cut but at a larger kerf. The Diemaster2 has just a slightly rougher cut but has half the kerf.

Honestly, I'm not sure which give me the most veneers from a plank of wood. The smoother cut will require less passes through the drum sander but it eats up 2x more wood in its kerf. The rough cut requires more passes through the drum sander even though its kerf is smaller. BUT, the rough cut requires cutting a slightly thicker veneer to sand down. I tend to like my veneers a tad on the thicker side at 1/16".

Frankly, I think it is a wash until you compare the COST of the two blades: The Diemaster2 is 20% the cost of the Trimaster. The Trimaster will likely outlast the bimetal but I gotta tell you, I'm quite impressed with how sharp the Diemaster2 has stayed and it has gnawed through a couple 100 bf of walnut in its life so far. I tend to leave the Diemaster2 on my BS as it has become more or less my general purpose blade.

I also want to say that I have a Lenox WoodmasterCT carbide blade. It is 1" wide, 0.051" kerf and the pitch is like 1.3 tpi or something. While I expected a rough cut from this blade, it was too rough for my liking and not conducive to my quest at yielding maximum veneers from a plank. It sits quietly on my wall...all 14' off it. :)

[Pete Bradley]

Like Chris, I too would take issue with the advice "For resaw get the widest blade you saw can tension correctly." This is common "internet wisdom" but the band that does the best resaw on a given machine may be narrower than that. Unfortunately there's no good rule for that, but most saws will do a very good job of resawing with a 1/2" X 3 band, so that's a good starting point.

[Mike Gottlieb]

Chris, Just curious why you didn't go with the .025 kerf Diamaster2 rather than the .035? It would seem that the thinner kerf blade would yield less waste, although less stiffness.

[Chris Padilla]

Mike,

It has been a while since I purchased my Diemaster2 so I don't recall my thought process at the time. All I can tell you is that after studying David Marks' Woodworks shows, I think what I have is what he liked to use on his "big blue" bandsaw. I know David likes Lenox, and I know the blades was bimetal and I further know that it was 6 tpi. I took all that and found the Diemaster2 and ordered it. Maybe the 6 tpi isn't available in the thinner blade?? Maybe the hook-style isn't? I dunno...maybe the thinner one wasn't available 5 years ago?

Looks like maybe I need to go research the Diemaster2 again and see what's what! :)

[Van Huskey]

Van, just a FYI,... a few years back on another forum, the subject of rounding the back of BS blades had been discussed quite often and one poster was concerned about doing it to his Trimaster. He contacted Lenox specifically about the Trimaster and reported their reply. Their reply was that they DID NOT recommend ANY grinding on the back of the Trimaster and gave several reasons. (seems like the reasons were specific to the type of metal, but I can't remember for sure). No mention was made for any blades other than the Trimaster so I don't know if that warning held true for any of their other types of blades or not since the reply was specifically addressed to the Trimaster query.

Just got off the phone with a Lenox Tech.

First a little about rounding or putting a radius on the trailing edge of a bandsaw blades backing material. The radius is there to prevent crack from forming on the sharp edges left in the production process this has been conventional wisdom as long as I have been using bandsaws. It seems the radius is still considered warranted BUT the Lenox tech told me that ALL their blades come pre radiused from the factory and suggests that it is probably true for every manufacturer. He further stated that if the blade gets dinged or damaged (by mishandling or some issue with guides) then stoning to touch up this damage is useful all any of their bands including the Trimaster. Basically if the trailing edge looks (he mentioned a microscope, which is not something I have in my shop...) or feels like it has a sharp edge or nicks it would be useful to round it, if not it was done at the factory. Interesting, and thanks for info Norman, although the issue with the Trimaster itself is still a little murky it seems radiusing a new blade may well be wasted effort.

[Chris Padilla]

Van,

It's been my understanding as well that Lenox (at least) pre-radiuses their blades so there is no reason for the consumer to do it.

[Van Huskey]

I didn't read the whole thing and only skimmed it a bit but my personal findings are that for resawing, going wider isn't necessarily all that it is cracked up to be.

Most who read my posts regarding bandsaw blades know that I really like my Lenox blades and really do not like my Timberwolf blades.

I do mostly resaw on my MM20 so that is where my experiences come into play.

I have a pricey carbide Trimaster that is 1" wide, 1/16" kerf, 2/3 variable pitch and I have a less pricey bimetal Diemaster2 that is 1/2" wide, ~0.032" kerf, 6 tpi, hook style.

From a pure resaw point of view, these two blades perform nearly identical for me. The nod goes to the Trimaster for a slightly smoother cut but at a larger kerf. The Diemaster2 has just a slightly rougher cut but has half the kerf.

Honestly, I'm not sure which give me the most veneers from a plank of wood. The smoother cut will require less passes through the drum sander but it eats up 2x more wood in its kerf. The rough cut requires more passes through the drum sander even though its kerf is smaller. BUT, the rough cut requires cutting a slightly thicker veneer to sand down. I tend to like my veneers a tad on the thicker side at 1/16".

Frankly, I think it is a wash until you compare the COST of the two blades: The Diemaster2 is 20% the cost of the Trimaster. The Trimaster will likely outlast the bimetal but I gotta tell you, I'm quite impressed with how sharp the Diemaster2 has stayed and it has gnawed through a couple 100 bf of walnut in its life so far. I tend to leave the Diemaster2 on my BS as it has become more or less my general purpose blade.

I also want to say that I have a Lenox WoodmasterCT carbide blade. It is 1" wide, 0.051" kerf and the pitch is like 1.3 tpi or something. While I expected a rough cut from this blade, it was too rough for my liking and not conducive to my quest at yielding maximum veneers from a plank. It sits quietly on my wall...all 14' off it. :)


First, before I forget it the Dimaster 2 is available in 6 TPI with .025" backer band. In my experience this can be a band material that small supply houses don't carry as stock.

Your points are well taken and this is what I mean by the black arts in bandsaws. What may work for some will not always be best for all.

Bimetal blades can very well be the most cost effective, I have watched my usage over time and it is hard to be 100% sure which saves the most money in the long run. I will say that this is the reason I favor the Laguna RK for a carbide blade the fact that you can get several sharpenings from one makes the economic race less of a wash between bimetal and carbide BUT that assumes one will wear out a RK from sharpening in their life... When one throws the economics of wood waste into the picture it become even more difficult to decide what is most economical. Further, if you need 12 pieces of veneer from a piece of stock and a wider kerf blade will only give you 10 then economics is irrelavent. I don't like uni-taskers in life and certainly not in the shop BUT if one does much veneer cutting I suggest you keep one hardened spring steel blade (Woodslicer, Kerfmaster or Bladerunner) in the shop. The 5/8" .016" Kerfmaster is my pick. The minamal set and thin backing material gives a kerf that is a woodmiser, they will save more material than anything else I am aware of and though they dull quickly they may save the cost of the blade even if you get just one more veneer out of expensive stock.


Pete categorized widest blade suggestions as "internet wisdom" and while I agree widest may not be best (particularly when best is subjective) I feel "internet wisdom" has a connotation that seems pejorative. I would suggest that it is industry wisdom. Saws and blades in the "resaw industry" start at 1" and move up with concentration in the 2"+ range and there are well founded reasons for this. I think the key here is the criteria for "best" resaw blade. My wider is usually better suggestion is based on wider blades generally make it easier to make long straight cuts with less chance for barrelling etc. The increased beam strength not only reduces the chances of deflection as well as insuring one can use the fastest feed rate the cheap clearing properties of a given blade allow. Straight, square cuts are the primary criteria when resawing particularly with veneers, where a small barrel in the cut may make an entire flitch unusable. With the right saw and increased skill level one can focus on other criteria like finish, this may take you down a road to less aggressive blades which are often only available in more narrow sizes, the same is true if one is trying to reduce waste, but in both cases these blades will require greater skill to get the same level of straight and square from the setup.


Like I said one big thing about the bandsaw is the "art" of it. Experiment! I avoided mentioning dovetail cuts on purpose because I have an unusual approach to them, I use a 1/2" blade. My father taught me to cut DTs on the BS with a 1/2" blade and though I rarely use the BS anymore thats the way I still do it when I do. I don't know why he did it that way and at the time I assumed that was the way it was done, I have never cut a DT on a BS with anything smaller and though I know the reasons to use a smaller blade I am not sure why I don't, my guess is nostalgia, feeling close to a father I lost decades ago.

[Chris Padilla]

Cool...a kerfmaster. *ka-ching* I'll be looking one of those up soon. Who makes that blade?

I suspect the professional resaw industry has very wide blades for a variety of reasons, but here are two off the top of my head:

(1) Strength..wide blades can take the abuse and won't break.
(2) Take several sharpenings?

In our shops with our "puny" machines (compared to industry), we aren't feeding humongous logs through our bandsaws with a power feeder. I suspect most of us do NOT use a power feeder for the bandsaw. Further, most of our puny machines can't properly tension a very wide blade. I mean, will there really be a HUGE difference in resawing with a 1/2" blade vs. a 1" blade? Yeah, it is twice as thick but the stock is being fed into the blade the same way.

An interesting experiment: Get the exact same blade cutting profile put on 1/2" wide and 1" wide metal stock. Let's assume your BS can "properly" tension the two blades. I would hazard that one couldn't tell the difference between the two when resawing in our shops.

Now keep in mind I am speaking from my MM20...and very nice bandsaw most would agree. I've NEVER used another bandsaw other than this one. I can tension things just fine as evidenced by my uniformly sized veneers that I peel off a face. Maybe I'm lucky in never having had to "deal with" a undersized BS...I probably am.

Anyway, that is my take on the "wider is better for resawing" axiom. :) I think we should remember that the blade is maybe only half the story. :D

[Van Huskey]

Cool...a kerfmaster. *ka-ching* I'll be looking one of those up soon. Who makes that blade?

I suspect the professional resaw industry has very wide blades for a variety of reasons, but here are two off the top of my head:

(1) Strength..wide blades can take the abuse and won't break.
(2) Take several sharpenings?

In our shops with our "puny" machines (compared to industry), we aren't feeding humongous logs through our bandsaws with a power feeder. I suspect most of us do NOT use a power feeder for the bandsaw. Further, most of our puny machines can't properly tension a very wide blade. I mean, will there really be a HUGE difference in resawing with a 1/2" blade vs. a 1" blade? Yeah, it is twice as thick but the stock is being fed into the blade the same way.

An interesting experiment: Get the exact same blade cutting profile put on 1/2" wide and 1" wide metal stock. Let's assume your BS can "properly" tension the two blades. I would hazard that one couldn't tell the difference between the two when resawing in our shops.

Now keep in mind I am speaking from my MM20...and very nice bandsaw most would agree. I've NEVER used another bandsaw other than this one. I can tension things just fine as evidenced by my uniformly sized veneers that I peel off a face. Maybe I'm lucky in never having had to "deal with" a undersized BS...I probably am.

Anyway, that is my take on the "wider is better for resawing" axiom. :) I think we should remember that the blade is maybe only half the story. :D


The Kerfmaster is somewhat of an enigma, the only place I have found it is Spectrum supply, they list it as a Lenox blade but the Lenox reps tell me they don't make a blade like this currently and feel it may be NOS band they used to make called the Furnmaster (for furniture). I haven't bothered to investigate further since it is basically the same blade as the Woodslicer and Bandrunner just less expensive, it is a thin kerf, minimal set, spring steel blade with hardedened teeth. The 5/8" .016 blade runs just under $25 for the MM20 plus shipping but they have a sample pack with a 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4" .022 blades and a 5/8" .016" blade for about $80 and it ships free. (they also have a $25 minimum) Although the MM20 can tension a much more substatial blade they are great when trying to eek out the extra veneer slice.

In general I agree with your view of resaw blade width, all other things equal a 1/2" blade will give the same finish as a 1.5" blade as long as the operator has the skill to feather their feed and not overwhelm the beam strength of the 1/2" blade. The 1.5" blade with its huge increase in beam strength and resulting deflection resistence makes it more idiotproof and being an idiot I like that. The analogy that comes to mind, though not perfect, is you could send me out on the Nurburgring Nordschleife in a 911 with wide sticky race tires and then send Walter Rohl out in the same 911 but with skinny heat cycled street tires and he would finish a LOT faster and look a lot better doing it. My point being the operator is a bigger issue than the blade and someone with great bandsaw touch can use a 1/4" 14 TPI blade and out resaw someone like me with a 1.5" blade but the way I figure it is if anyone needs advice on basic resawing they likely can benefit from the positive attributes of a wider blade. YMMV

[Michael Drew]

Hi Van,

I need to buy some blades for my wee lil' 12" Jet band saw. I did a search on this sight and found this thread. Via Google, I found Lenox band saw blades direct and promptly got confused with all the choices.

I do not use this saw for anything but wood. I do not re-saw, but rarely. I just bought this saw for cutting arches in longer pieces of wood that I don't have the patience to cut with a jig saw.

I thought I'd pick up an 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2" blade with 1/2" being the max size this saw will support. The wheels have a rubber liner over them and it does have a tensioner with a gauge for each blade width, but I doubt it's accurate.

So if you would be so inclined to offer up some suggestions for this saw, I'd appreciate it.

........mike

[Van Huskey]

First, I am happy to offer suggestions but understand it is hard to recommend a specific blade unless one knows the exact task but for general use here goes.

1. I would not put a 1/2" blade on that saw, despite the manufacturers recommendation having LOOKED at the saw I would not trust it to actually properly tension it. It is never going to be a resawing monster as we both know BUT if you feel you need a 1/2" blade for resawing I would get a hardened spring steel blade like the Kerfmaster or Woodslicer listed in my first post. The use a thin gauge back which requires less absolute tension to acheive proper beam strength. These blade are not great for cutting curves due to the minamal set to the teeth BUT given the relativly small table on your saw I doubt you will be cutting arcs large enough to benefit from such a large blade.

2. If you don't get a 1/2" blade I would suggest a 3/8" 3 TPI Hook preferably with a backer gauge of .025", I would suggest a bi-metal blade but I don't think Lenox (and maybe nobody) makes one that thin. The Lenox Flexback would work here.

3. For the 1/4" blade I would get a bi-metal blade since I bet it will be your most used blade on that saw. 1/4" x .025" 6 TPI hook Lenox Diemaster 2 would work well.

4. For fine work I would get a 1/8" 14 TPI standard tooth blade, Lenox doesn't make these, I like Starrett but there are plenty out there.

One note with the short bands on your saw they will dull quickly so I would stay away from the Silicon steel blades as they dull quicker than carbon, even though they are more expensive. Get bi-metal when you can as they will outlast carbon bands by a LOT, aren't too much more expensive BUT avoid any band that is thicker than .025" on that saw. With the 3/8" (or 1/2" if you must) 1/4" and 1/8" blade trio that I outlined you should be able to cover 90+% of the cuts you will make on that saw. You will constantly run into situations where you don't have the perfect blade for a particular cut, just like with any saw, but with these three you can make do in pretty much every case or break down and buy a more appropriate blade.

[Thomas Delpizzo]

I just received my order from Lou Iturra. I picked up a 1/4" 6 tpi Lenox bimetal for all-around use and a 3/4" 3-4 tpi .022 blade runner. I have the Grizz go555x. I discussed the 3/4 blade with Louis as I read Dukeske's book that the wheel may not be wide enough. Louis assured me the 3/4" would would be fine (note the thickness is .022). It also came pre-rounded. I hope to use it over the next 2 weeks and report in!

[Van Huskey]

I just received my order from Lou Iturra. I picked up a 1/4" 6 tpi Lenox bimetal for all-around use and a 3/4" 3-4 tpi .022 blade runner. I have the Grizz go555x. I discussed the 3/4 blade with Louis as I read Dukeske's book that the wheel may not be wide enough. Louis assured me the 3/4" would would be fine (note the thickness is .022). It also came pre-rounded. I hope to use it over the next 2 weeks and report in!

The thin gauge of the hardened spring steel blades such as the blade runner reduces the absolute tension required to properly tension them (roughly 15,000 PSI) and thus even the 14" cast clone saws can at least get close to tensioning them correctly, the thin gauge also has the benefit of reducing fatigue over the smaler wheels, my fear is bending the notoriously weak top wheel hinge on those saws. Keep in mind these saws were designed for 1/4" blades over 70 years ago and they don't make 'em like they used to. Iturra sells a beefed up version to combat this if anyone is interested.

My choice is still a 5/8" .016 or 1/2" .025" blade for those saws but Louis knows far more than I! Heck there are people running 3/4" carbide Laguna Resaw Kings on Asian 14" cast clones and are happy with them. Louis, with his far greater personal experience, feels more comfortable with pushing the envelope, I on the other hand prefer the conservative approach partly because if you bend your top wheel hinge trying to get the correct tension on a 3/4" blade I would feel BAD.

[Dave Stuve]

Wow, you guys have inspired me to upgrade from the crappy factory blade on the Jet 16" that I bought last year. It's one of the newer steel frame saws, and according to the specs it can handle 1/8" to 1.5" blades.

Here's what I'm thinking so far, going all bi-metal blades:

1/4" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6 tpi skip tooth for most curves
1/2" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6/10 variable pitch for general purpose use

I'm unsure on a blade for resaw, I'm thinking the 1" Woodmaster B either 1.3 or 2 tpi blade .035 thickness would probably be fine, and I can go as high as the 1.25" blade and still have the .035 thickness (1 or 1.3 tpi). Going to 1.5" gets me .050" thickness and 1.1 tpi.

Any comments or recommendations for resaw blades on this saw?

Thanks!

Dave Stuve

[Van Huskey]

Wow, you guys have inspired me to upgrade from the crappy factory blade on the Jet 16" that I bought last year. It's one of the newer steel frame saws, and according to the specs it can handle 1/8" to 1.5" blades.

Here's what I'm thinking so far, going all bi-metal blades:

1/4" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6 tpi skip tooth for most curves
1/2" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6/10 variable pitch for general purpose use

I'm unsure on a blade for resaw, I'm thinking the 1" Woodmaster B either 1.3 or 2 tpi blade .035 thickness would probably be fine, and I can go as high as the 1.25" blade and still have the .035 thickness (1 or 1.3 tpi). Going to 1.5" gets me .050" thickness and 1.1 tpi.

Any comments or recommendations for resaw blades on this saw?

Thanks!

Dave Stuve


First, I think that saw is the newer triangular frame correct, the older Jet with the square frame (I think without the B in the model) was rather prone to deflection and my recommendation would be different.

First you are correct about not wanting to go to the WM B in 1.5", I wouldn't even attempt to run that on my MM20!

Making a long story short I would get the 1" WM B in for that saw. I would probably get it in 2 TPI since I think the resaw height is 10" on that saw but it is almost a flip of the coin between it and 1.3 TPI. The 2 TPI will have a lower feed rate (but still quick) but last longer if not overfeed. If the resaw height was over 12" and you used it at those heights regularly I would say 1.3 TPI. I could elaborate on my reasons but they are more in the art than in the science range but suffice it to say it lies in the fact the bi-metal blade likes a lot of tension and the difference in quality between 1 and 1.25" blades of the same design is minimal to begin with and maybe worse for the 1.25" blade because the 1.25" blade may cause significantly more deflection to get it tensioned properly.

The WM B is an often overlooked blade but it may be the best value in resaw blades for for those of us who this is merely a hobby, and by that I mean those of use that don't have the bandsaw running 4 or more hours a day resawing.

[Michael Drew]

First, I am happy to offer suggestions but understand it is hard to recommend a specific blade unless one knows the exact task but for general use here goes.

1. I would not put a 1/2" blade on that saw, despite the manufacturers recommendation having LOOKED at the saw I would not trust it to actually properly tension it. It is never going to be a resawing monster as we both know BUT if you feel you need a 1/2" blade for resawing I would get a hardened spring steel blade like the Kerfmaster or Woodslicer listed in my first post. The use a thin gauge back which requires less absolute tension to acheive proper beam strength. These blade are not great for cutting curves due to the minamal set to the teeth BUT given the relativly small table on your saw I doubt you will be cutting arcs large enough to benefit from such a large blade.

2. If you don't get a 1/2" blade I would suggest a 3/8" 3 TPI Hook preferably with a backer gauge of .025", I would suggest a bi-metal blade but I don't think Lenox (and maybe nobody) makes one that thin. The Lenox Flexback would work here.

3. For the 1/4" blade I would get a bi-metal blade since I bet it will be your most used blade on that saw. 1/4" x .025" 6 TPI hook Lenox Diemaster 2 would work well.

4. For fine work I would get a 1/8" 14 TPI standard tooth blade, Lenox doesn't make these, I like Starrett but there are plenty out there.

One note with the short bands on your saw they will dull quickly so I would stay away from the Silicon steel blades as they dull quicker than carbon, even though they are more expensive. Get bi-metal when you can as they will outlast carbon bands by a LOT, aren't too much more expensive BUT avoid any band that is thicker than .025" on that saw. With the 3/8" (or 1/2" if you must) 1/4" and 1/8" blade trio that I outlined you should be able to cover 90+% of the cuts you will make on that saw. You will constantly run into situations where you don't have the perfect blade for a particular cut, just like with any saw, but with these three you can make do in pretty much every case or break down and buy a more appropriate blade.

Thank you Van.

[Jeff Duncan]

Wow great thread for bandsaw blade choices. I happen to be thinking about a carbide blade for my saw as I burn though too many blades re-sawing mostly hardwoods. I've used many different blades and the most recent was a Woodslicer which cut great, but I need something that will really last, I end up trying to cut with dull bands far too often:>(

So how much degrade in quality should I expect from a carbide blade compared to a decent spring steel blade? Would it be enough that I'd want to keep something like a Wood Slicer on hand for the rare veneer job? Do the carbide blades require much more HP due to not being quite as sharp and having a lager kerf, or is it a negligible difference?

FWIW I'm running a 20" Delta so tension for a 1" or so blade is not a problem. Most of the stock I re-saw is thicker and gets run through the planer anyway. And most of what I cut are domestic hardwoods.

thanks,
JeffD

[Van Huskey]

So how much degrade in quality should I expect from a carbide blade compared to a decent spring steel blade?

The difference between a good carbide resaw blade in terms of finish will be very small if any compared to a Woodslicer type blade.

Would it be enough that I'd want to keep something like a Wood Slicer on hand for the rare veneer job?

In terms of finish no, but if you ever cut veneer from very rare/expensive veneer the thin gauge hardened spring steel blades can be worth using since they can save their purchase price with reduced waste.

Do the carbide blades require much more HP due to not being quite as sharp and having a lager kerf, or is it a negligible difference?

That is a good question, they do use more horsepower no doubt but I have never used a carbide blade on a low powered saw so I can't say where the point is one would have trouble. I would guess that if one goes under 1 hp per 6" of resaw you probably would have to slow your feedrate for the harder domestics, some exotics would be worse.

FWIW I'm running a 20" Delta so tension for a 1" or so blade is not a problem. Most of the stock I re-saw is thicker and gets run through the planer anyway. And most of what I cut are domestic hardwoods.

thanks,
JeffD

I think you will love a good carbide toothed blade, they make resawing a real pleasure.


As an aside I would love anyone with carbide toothed blades other than the Lenox and Laguna versions to chime in about their blades. These blades are so expensive I have just stayed with what I know but would love to hear other people's experience with some of the other manufacturers blades.

[Dean Ousterhout]

I am a novice to the bandsaw and really appreciate all the information here... and the time it took for you to write out the details.

I have a 14" Delta with a riser. How do I know what tension I can/should use? Is this saw in the category of "Cast Clone"?

I calculated the length of the blade that was on the saw that I need to replace and it seems it was 106", but you reference that it should be the standard 105", so I am a little confused? Is it possible that the previous owner put a 106" blade on the saw? Perhaps I calculated the length wrong, (Pi*D) plus 2 times the distance between the wheel centers(31")?

[Van Huskey]

I am a novice to the bandsaw and really appreciate all the information here... and the time it took for you to write out the details.

I have a 14" Delta with a riser. How do I know what tension I can/should use? Is this saw in the category of "Cast Clone"?

I calculated the length of the blade that was on the saw that I need to replace and it seems it was 106", but you reference that it should be the standard 105", so I am a little confused? Is it possible that the previous owner put a 106" blade on the saw? Perhaps I calculated the length wrong, (Pi*D) plus 2 times the distance between the wheel centers(31")?

The Delta is a cast 14" saw the original Delta's going back over 70 years are the saw all the modern 14" cast iron saws are based on, they are the clones but they are very similar in many ways. I have yet to see a Delta with a riser that didn't take a 105" blade. Due to the way bandsaws tension blades a blade can vary but a short blade may not fit onto the wheels and a long blade may not allow enough remaining travel to tension it properly, the wider the band the bigger an issue this is. I am 99% sure you will be fine with a 105" blade.

As for the tensioning not knowing the vintage or exact model it is hard to tell but you probably have a tension gauge that is calibrated to blade width, for the most part with Carbon or spring steel blades just use that, you may increase it by up to the next blade size up for thick material or if the blade is getting dull, this is something you just have to play with. Never bottom out the tension spring though! There are a lot of variables but I or someone will give specific advise for the saw and a specific blade if you like. In the end I basically suggest start with the correct mark on the tension gauge and work up or down from there to get the quality of cut you want in the material you are using.

[Jeff Duncan]

Thanks Van. I think a new carbide blade is in my future! My saw has a 2hp motor which isn't huge, but I've never really strained it much either so I should be fine. Not sure which blade I'll get but I'll post back when I have some results!

thanks,
Jeff

[Van Huskey]

Thanks Van. I think a new carbide blade is in my future! My saw has a 2hp motor which isn't huge, but I've never really strained it much either so I should be fine. Not sure which blade I'll get but I'll post back when I have some results!

thanks,
Jeff

With 2hp you will be fine.

[Dave MacArthur]

Not a day goes by that I don't wish someone had found this thread using the SEARCH function... I need to bookmark it so I can just paste the link to it. And the more folks we get here with Q and A, the more useful the thread will be. Thanks again!

[raul segura]

I'm just in the market for a re-saw blade .
Grizzly cast iron 2hp motor with 17 in wheels.
Sound like I can get away with a 3/4 in. blade widest they suggest. With all the great information her I suspect I will not go wrong getting a blade.
I read a 3/4 blade takes about twice the tension as a 1/2 in very substantial I think.

With regards to three wheelers I know they are not the preferd, but I have one, a delta, small but very useful. As the wheels are small I would think the thickness would be most important like the .022(bi metal ??) from Iturra Design . I assume others will due well, but how much would this factor play in regard to small wheels. I'm not talking re-saw here just general purpose 1/8 - 3/8 blades.

Great review on saw blade information, probably save me much money.
Thanks people.

[Van Huskey]

I'm just in the market for a re-saw blade .
Grizzly cast iron 2hp motor with 17 in wheels.
Sound like I can get away with a 3/4 in. blade widest they suggest. With all the great information her I suspect I will not go wrong getting a blade.
I read a 3/4 blade takes about twice the tension as a 1/2 in very substantial I think.

With regards to three wheelers I know they are not the preferd, but I have one, a delta, small but very useful. As the wheels are small I would think the thickness would be most important like the .022(bi metal ??) from Iturra Design . I assume others will due well, but how much would this factor play in regard to small wheels. I'm not talking re-saw here just general purpose 1/8 - 3/8 blades.

Great review on saw blade information, probably save me much money.
Thanks people.

I have not used the older larger than 14" cast saws but I would imagine you will be fine with a 3/4" blade, but one with thin backing material (.020-.025") would make the most sense.

As far as the little three wheeler goes the thinner the better!!! Carbon would probably be better for that saw since Bi-metal likes more tension and you don't want to punish the saw.

[raul segura]

Ill due that thanks.

[raul segura]

OK,
AS MENTIONED I HAVE THE Grizzly G1073Z 16" 2HP WITH 17 IN.WHEELS .
YOU MENTIONED ECONOMY WITH THE LENOX BLADES.
IF I WHERE TO RE-SAW WET 9-12 INCH OAK/CHERRY LOGS, WHAT BLADES WOULD YOU SUGGEST FROM LENOX, ..... AND A BLADE FOR DRY WOOD, ( IF NOT THE SAME). I KNOW THEY MAKE EXCELLENT HACK SAW BLADES. ANY BETTER SUGGESTION ?
I FIGURE THIS SAW IS IN THE CAST CLONE AREA BUT PERHAPS A LITTLE LARGER.
MUCH APPRECIATE. ID RATHER TAKE A CHANCE ON EXPERIENCE THAN A WALK IN THE DARK.

[Van Huskey]

OK,
AS MENTIONED I HAVE THE Grizzly G1073Z 16" 2HP WITH 17 IN.WHEELS .
YOU MENTIONED ECONOMY WITH THE LENOX BLADES.
IF I WHERE TO RE-SAW WET 9-12 INCH OAK/CHERRY LOGS, WHAT BLADES WOULD YOU SUGGEST FROM LENOX, ..... AND A BLADE FOR DRY WOOD, ( IF NOT THE SAME). I KNOW THEY MAKE EXCELLENT HACK SAW BLADES. ANY BETTER SUGGESTION ?
I FIGURE THIS SAW IS IN THE CAST CLONE AREA BUT PERHAPS A LITTLE LARGER.
MUCH APPRECIATE. ID RATHER TAKE A CHANCE ON EXPERIENCE THAN A WALK IN THE DARK.

For the green (wet) wood my favorite is not a Lenox, it is from Highland: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodturners-bandsaw-blades.aspx It has a lot of set and doesn't bind.

For dry wood resawing it depends on your budget. For the best VALUE I would say the Lenox Diemaster 2 (1/2" x .020" 4TPI). If you want to spend more then I would recommend a carbide tipped blade like the Laguna Resaw King.

[paul dyar]

This is what I know about band saw blades. I tried the woodslicer the timberwolf, and the delta (later being the worse by far) the woodslicer and the timberwolf cut fine on about 10 to 15 boards. After that the blade would drift badly. I spent hours and hours with this saw. I figured this saw was not capable of doing any better. Then I bit the bullet and bought a Lenox 3/4" carbide tipped blade. Also changed the tires. It is like a different saw.
Paul

[Gregory Myers]

Van,

Thanks so much for your summary. I consider myself a good woodworker, but still fairly new to the craft. I just recently bought a Grizzly 14", but I put the extension on it so that I can cut up to 12" widths. I really wanted to use it for re-sawing but found that my blade was dulled just after the adjustments to it, for both the 14" and extension blade. At first I thought I was doing something wrong, but quickly realized that you get what you pay for; not positive, but they probably sell the cheap stuff (Spring Steel). I plan on getting more proficient with my band saw but right now I use my table saw to re-saw for thinner pieces.

So what blade is my best bet for the money? What is the best source, book, website or other to learn more about band saw techniques?

Once again...Thanks!

Greg Myers

[Van Huskey]

This is what I know about band saw blades. I tried the woodslicer the timberwolf, and the delta (later being the worse by far) the woodslicer and the timberwolf cut fine on about 10 to 15 boards. After that the blade would drift badly. I spent hours and hours with this saw. I figured this saw was not capable of doing any better. Then I bit the bullet and bought a Lenox 3/4" carbide tipped blade. Also changed the tires. It is like a different saw.
Paul

You found out in person how quickly cheap blades (Delta), hardened spring steel (Woodslicer) and silicon steel (TM) dull quickly then go haywire. These blades have their place particularly the hardened spring steel but they are just too soft to last, carbide on the other hand...

[Van Huskey]

Van,

Thanks so much for your summary. I consider myself a good woodworker, but still fairly new to the craft. I just recently bought a Grizzly 14", but I put the extension on it so that I can cut up to 12" widths. I really wanted to use it for re-sawing but found that my blade was dulled just after the adjustments to it, for both the 14" and extension blade. At first I thought I was doing something wrong, but quickly realized that you get what you pay for; not positive, but they probably sell the cheap stuff (Spring Steel). I plan on getting more proficient with my band saw but right now I use my table saw to re-saw for thinner pieces.



So what blade is my best bet for the money? What is the best source, book, website or other to learn more about band saw techniques?

Once again...Thanks!

Greg Myers


For the blades or blade you use most often a bimetal blade is the way to go for long term value. I use Lenox but Olson, Starett and others make great ones too.

As for books: "The new complete guide to the band saw by Mark Duginske get it from Amazon for $13.57 shipped, it is THE book but Lonnie Bird's book is also good.

As for videos I will make you a deal, if you PM me your address I will send you Mark Duginske's DVD on bandsaws (may take me a week or so this time of year to get it out) BUT you have to promise me when you are fully finished with it to come back on make a post and pass it along to someone else and make them make the same "promise" so it moves around to people that want to see it. Make sense?

[Gregory Myers]

Van,

Wow, how can I pass up a deal like that! This is what woodworking communities should be about, sharing knowledge and helping each other out. I will definitely send you a private message with my address, so look for it shortly. Also, I'll definitely check out the band saw books you referred me to. I'm really excited about going to the woodworking show in Atlanta this year, and hopefully I'll meet other passionate people like you.

Keep them rolling and thanks!
r
Gregory Myers

[Jake Helmboldt]

Mark Duginske posted a number of times here a few years ago in reference to blades and tension. There is some good info in them, and he slaughters a few sacred cows in the process. You could search for his posts and get some additional info. In general I think Van has provided a very good summary of the issues, but Mark's posts may provide some additional details.

[Van Huskey]

Mark Duginske and he slaughters a few sacred cows in the process. .

And he took a beating for some, based on his posts probably the reason he no longer posts here or elsewhere. I also agree that his posts are certainly worth a read, maybe more than once.

[Dave MacArthur]

Van,
This wasn't an easy search actually, so thought I'd add it to your thread for others:
my Agazzani B-20 says it can take a blade length of 4.14 m max, to 4.06 m min. In inches, that's 162.99 " to 159.84". I'm going to say 160"-163" so I can remember it. Now, if I'm ordering a new blade from Highland for it, what actually is the best length to get? Does everything in the range fit easily, or do I want to stay shortish so there's lots of tension range left?

What custom length should I order?

[Tony Shaftel]

I've always ordered them at 161 inches for mine. This was the length listed in the Eagle Tools for a long time until they changed the site. You might give them a call, www.eagle-tools.com.

[James Heisbert]

Thanks for posting those information, Van!

[JimT Thompson]

Old thread but great stuff. I just got an old Delta 14" 3/4 hp 28-203 in great shape. Can it run the 5/8" resaw blade or should I stick to 1/2"?

[Charlie Gummer]

Jim, Everything I've read and heard anecdotally says stick with the 1/2" for a 14" saw. Per Van's recommendations I just ordered a 1/4" Diemaster II and a 1/2" Kerfmaster (.022 thick) for my Jet 14" (with riser).


Old thread but great stuff. I just got an old Delta 14" 3/4 hp 28-203 in great shape. Can it run the 5/8" resaw blade or should I stick to 1/2"?

[Van Huskey]

Jim, sorry I missed replying earlier. As Charlie said staying with 1/2" max is prudent for the Delta 14" and its clones. Not saying people haven't gotten decent results with wider blades on those saws but a lot of people have bent or broken the tracking arm trying...

[Phil Simard]

Hi Van, thanks for making our education on the subject. I plan on buying a General 490 15 inch all cast iron band saw. Made in Canada, not imported.


Would you stick with a 1/2 inch max width blade with this saw?

[Peter Quinn]

Oh man, I saw Vans name and clicked on the link without even noticing it was an old thread...I got so excited thinking that Van had returned! Not so...no I'm glum.

[Kevin Groenke]

Has anybody tried the carbide tipped Haltbar CT1001 or CT1002 from sawblade.com (http://sawblade.com/order-ct-1002-haltbar-triple-chip-carbide.cfm?ss=bdd)?

I wonder how these compare to other carbide tipped blades, they seem to be considerably less expensive.


275080 275082

[Ben Rivel]

I know this is an old thread to bump but man was it helpful for me! I just took delivery of a Hammer N4400 and knew I wanted to go with Lenox blades but what to get and why was the trick I still needed to figure out. This thread was an immense help and I know have a much better idea of what I need to order for what I want to do. Thank you for taking the time to make this thread!

[Clay Fails]

I am a novice to the bandsaw and really appreciate all the information here... and the time it took for you to write out the details.

I have a 14" Delta with a riser. How do I know what tension I can/should use? Is this saw in the category of "Cast Clone"?

I calculated the length of the blade that was on the saw that I need to replace and it seems it was 106", but you reference that it should be the standard 105", so I am a little confused? Is it possible that the previous owner put a 106" blade on the saw? Perhaps I calculated the length wrong, (Pi*D) plus 2 times the distance between the wheel centers(31")?

Dean, I had a Powermatic 14 inch with riser block and the specs called for 105 inch blade. Yes, they would fit, technically. But man were they hard to take on and off. A 106 inch blade would have made life much easier on that particular saw. I've since sold and upgraded to a Laguna LT16HD, and blade changing is a dream on that machine. YMMV

[Brian Tymchak]

I remember reading this thread a long time ago and realizing then just how good the information that Van and others provided in the thread was and would be when I got around to buying blades for my bandsaw. I just reread it today and am still impressed with it. IMHO, this thread is one of the all-time great informational threads here on SMC and I'd like to nominate it for "sticky" status.

[Bradley Potts]

Great thread, thank you for sharing so much!

I have been recently been working on some harvested acacia logs, which were showing >29% RH months after cutting -- psst, that's green, wet wood, hehehe. Initially, I got help cutting these from a friend with a Chinese Laguna 14" and running what appeared to be a 1/2" bimetal 3-4tpi blade. Things went pretty well, but it was tough getting straight slabs off the 11" logs.

I got it slabbed down enough to be able to fit it onto my Italian Laguna LT-16, whereupon I went at it with Highland's 5/8" Woodslicer, their recommendation for green wood. The blade seemed to work okay, but it gummed up pretty severely and smoked a lot, although the blade itself stayed cool to the touch; I also struggled to get straight cuts even though I bumped the tension from the factory suggestion for 5/8" up to that for the 3/4" blades.

Any suggestions for how to keep the gumming up under control and how to get straighter cuts? The larger question seems to be steps I can take to increase the blade tension on this particular saw, as it can run >1" blades, yes it came with the big carbide Laguna Woodslicer (lucky me!).


TIA,
Bradley

[Bill Adamsen]

Ole Anderson started a thread (about a week ago) which included links to youtube videos one of which showed Lou Sauzedde sharpening his bandsaw blade. I thought this instructive and useful for anyone considering how to optimize their large saw cutting. I have been using a non-sharpenable carbide blade but this video has me thinking about alternatives.

Blade sharpening on a Ship's Saw (L. Power) by Lou Sauzedde
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoaOkqi-xxs

Ole's original post
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?261539-Really-big-bandsaw

[Jerry Olexa]

VERY helpful write up.....Thank you for your effort!!!!

[Nick Decker]

Anybody heard from Van? Haven't seen him around these parts.

[Kevin Beitz]

I just read this posting from end to end. Lots of good info here. I built two of my 9 band saws. My biggest saw takes a 1 1/2"x150" 4 degree 1TPI .045 blades. What do I buy? Not much. I get most of my blades from the local junkyard. I made a hand setter and I sharpen my blades with a dremel. I also have a blade welder so if what I find is to large or to small I cut and make to fit.

[Van Huskey]

Anybody heard from Van? Haven't seen him around these parts.


I see him every day. :)

[Alex Zeller]

Lots of useful information here. I have a newer HF 14" bandsaw (given to me) that I added a Shop Fox riser to, since HF doesn't offer one for it. My plan is to get a used 24" bandsaw since I've seen several nice ones sell at equipment auctions for under $1000. It's just a matter of distance to me. Anyway back to the 14" bandsaw. I've added a Cobra coil spring to help with tension. I've bought two Highlander bowl turning blades for it. I occasionally will resaw a board or two but my plans for what ever bandsaw I get is to cut bowl blanks. I got the highlander blades because I didn't want to ruin nicer blades while I was building a sled for the saw. I've already broken one blade because I had the pivot too far back and the blank not smooth enough. Now that I have the sled working well I'm looking to get some new blades. I've been debating between the Lenox diemaster 2 or the Olsen MVP. The highlander blades are .035 x 3/8. I don't have a tension gauge yet so I can't confirm but I'm concerned that I can't properly tension it.

The blanks I turn are green wood, usually yellow birch, cherry, oak, maple. So far nothing smaller than 8" in diameter and often larger than that so I think a 1/2" blade would work fine. Both the Lenox and Olson blades only come in 1/2" if I want 3 tpi. Olson does make a 4 tpi skip tooth blade in 3/8" but the blanks I've been cutting are usually 6" to 10" thick and I'm not sure if the green wood will be happier with 3 tpi. I'm not doing production work so going slower isn't a problem. But now that I'm down to just one blade I would like to get a couple spares.

So my question is would the Diematster 2 1/2" x .035 be too much for a 14" Delta clone saw to properly tension? Is there any other bi-metal blades I should be looking at for my needs? I've read a lot on this subject but most people seam to be more into resawing than cutting bowl blanks. The Lenox seam to be harder to get.

[Howard Pollack]

You might check with Louis Iturra or Iturra Design. He sells both the Lennox Dimaster and a line of Starrett bi-metal blades that he likes better than the Lennox. He knows more about bandsaws, particularly old Deltas and their clones, than I can imagine ever knowing. He is not on-line, you have to call him.
-Howard

[Alex Zeller]

The problem is that during the weekdays I usually don't have time to spend making phone calls so I've never called Iturra. I quickly looked at Sarrett, the woodpecker pro to be exact. It comes in the same specs as the Olson but they are very hard to find on-line. Bandsaw Kings sell them but don't have them in stock. I could buy them directly from Starrett but without creating an account I have no idea what shipping will cost or how long it'll take to get. I don't want to build up a nice stock of spare blades since I don't know how long I'll have this saw for. The Olson blades seam to be sold all over the place so if I need a blade in a hurry I can get them. But I've had good luck with Lenox blades (and Starrett hole saws) so a part of me is leaning that direction. I'm probably over thinking this and will want to try several brands so see which one I like the best.

[Van Huskey]

I have a newer HF 14" bandsaw (given to me) that I added a Shop Fox riser to, since HF doesn't offer one for it.

I've bought two Highlander bowl turning blades for it.


So my question is would the Diematster 2 1/2" x .035 be too much for a 14" Delta clone saw to properly tension? Is there any other bi-metal blades I should be looking at for my needs? I've read a lot on this subject but most people seam to be more into resawing than cutting bowl blanks. The Lenox seam to be harder to get.

First, the HF saw is an OK saw IF you get one that is relatively vibration free, in that respect it is a lottery. Keep in mind despite what some would lead you to believe clones are not perfect clones and even within the clones there are a lot of differences. Even the Delta changed a lot over the 80+ years it was made. The point I am getting at is the castings for these saws vary a lot and some are more rigid than others and I imagine you can guess where the HF is on the relative scale of rigidity and they all get worse with a riser on them. All these saws can get the job done if you don't ask them to do too much. Based on this I wouldn't recommend a 1/2" bi-metal blade for these saws, the Diemaster is not that aggressive (though some love it for blanks) and requires a lot of tension. Asking the HF to tension and then power the DM through bowl blanks, particularly green, and you will likely be either frustrated or destroy the blade. Again a lot of turners like the DM but for your saw I would suggest carbon bands.

The carbon band I suggest for green blanks is 3/8" blade with 3 tpi, fairly thick (.03 to .035"), with a high hook angle (6 degrees plus), lots of set in an alternate set pattern, large gullets and a raker tooth pattern. The idea is to cut aggressively with the ability to clear the swarf easily as well as being rather tough and having enough beam strength to get powered through tall blanks. Highland and Timberwolf both supply that exact blade spec but they run about $24 each which isn't bad if you are one that doesn't beat up bands cutting blanks but some people are rather "mean" to there blades cutting blanks. A cheaper alternative (~$12) is the Lenox Flexback in 3/8 x .025 3tpi with the hook/alternate set. The thinner gauge reduces the ability to really push on it but the HF saw is not going to have the horsepower to go fast so you will have to learn patience with tall blanks. The thinner gauge is probably a blessing for that saw anyway.

What I am saying is I think you are already using the best blade for the saw and task. When you get a bigger saw with more tensioning ability and a faster blade speed then try the DM2 until then stick with carbon blades IMO. I understand the DM2 is attractive since it lasts so long and is thus more economical but it is not a good choice for the saw.

BTW never store those Highlander blades together, as there can be only one. :) I couldn't resist, note it is Highland Woodworking that sells them (actually Highland Hardware) and normally it is called simply the Highland Woodturner blade.

[Alex Zeller]

I have no illusions that the HF 14" bandsaw is a precision piece of machinery nor that the one I have is the best one HF has sold. It was given to me because it's not a great example. Adding the riser block didn't do it any favors. That being said it does get the job done. I upgraded the motor to a 2hp Lesson I had and replaced the belts so now it has plenty of power. It does have some vibrations that balancing the wheels didn't cure. I'm assuming that it's the casting flexing some and you confirmed what I was thinking with your comments about the castings. I'm sure that I probably could figure out a way to stiffen it up but I don't want to spend much time on it. Trying to make it better is just going to be spending good money to find the next limitation. I know what it is and it can get the job done. Not knowing when I'll find something nicer, I almost bid on a Laguna LT24 that sold for $1400, I'm trying to use the HF to learn what works.

That's for the advice. The Highlander blades are made by a company called Sterling. They seam plenty sharp and if I hadn't broken one it would still be cutting blanks and the spare still on the shelf. I'm not sure how hard cutting about 50 bowl blanks are on a blade (about when it broke) but I have 40 acres of woods and access to hundreds more. My plans are to be making lots of blanks so a good saw with the right blade is a must. It sounds like I'm better off waiting until I upgrade the saw before trying to find out which blade I like best.

[Van Huskey]

Not knowing when I'll find something nicer, I almost bid on a Laguna LT24 that sold for $1400.

It sounds like I'm better off waiting until I upgrade the saw before trying to find out which blade I like best.

Go back in time and bid $1450 on that LT24!

I actually have a soft spot for the HF 14" saw. It is like the dog in the farthest dark corner of a shelter with so many health problems it will take a small fortune to make sure it lives another year but... I am almost always against spending money on them except maybe a link belt that you can switch out before you sell it and making some hardwood guide blocks. If you have the time and inclination about 50% of them can be made into a decent saw for little money. I suggest spending little more than time on it and put any money you would have spent on it directly into the better bandsaw fund.

[Thomas Crawford]

Anyone have a link to where I can find 1/8" blades? Need 123" for my 16" Jet.

Great thread btw.

[David Powell]

Highland Hardware has 1/8" bandsaw blades.

[Van Huskey]

Anyone have a link to where I can find 1/8" blades? Need 123" for my 16" Jet.

Great thread btw.

Woodcraftbands (no connection to Woodcraft) is my source for small blades. In general, the best options for blades are companies that weld their own if not there is another middleman you have to pay. As much as I love Highland Hardware they are far from the most economical source for bandsaw blades.

[Thomas Crawford]

Thanks Van and David, I couldn't find anything smaller than 1/4" anywhere.

[Merrill Herring]

Wondering what the best blade would be for my Grizzly G5013 bandsaw, usually cut hardwoods up to 8 quarter. It came with a 1/2 6 hook but does not cut very well, was thinking about a carbide tip blade.

[Ole Anderson]

Not saying this is the best/least expensive bandsaw blade supplier, but they have a ton of options and custom weld them to your length. Primarily carry the Lennox brand.

https://www.bandsawbladesdirect.com/band-saw-blades

[Dan Chouinard]

Thank you Van. Just beginning my re-saw journey and this is very helpful information!
There is a giant old beast Northfield bandsaw in the shop that we acquired at auction a couple years ago. Used the old blades that came with it to resaw white oak for a project last year. This past week i pushed of batch of ash through a tired old blade to bookmatch cabinet fronts for our office makeover project. Put our new Vacupress fliptop press into action and what a revelation that thing is. Its like magic. Presto!
Look forward to purchasing and using a new blade. Resawing is wicked cool!