J.A. Fay & Egan 12" Jointer

[david blakelock]

Hello, I have been reading the post on Sawmill Creek for a while and like most new comers have been very impressed with all of the talents and helpfulness of folks on this site. I am in the process of building my dream shop (which I will post pictures and details shortly) and I am in the process of upgrading some of my power tools. I came across at J.A. Fay & Egan 12" Jointer for sale. The asking price is $1,200. Does anyone have any knowledge of this machine and how good it is? And is this a good price. Thanks for any advice.

David

[Kirk Poore]

Fay & Egan made great machines. But--it's hard to tell from this information whether this one is for you. Is it in good condition? Does it have a round, gibbed cutterhead (as opposed to a square head, or a clamshell head, both of which have severe safety issues)? What kind of motor and controls does it have, and does it run? Direct drive or belt drive? Babbitt or ball bearings? Are the guard and fence present? Any broken castings or missing components?

Fay & Egan made jointers from about 1899 to the 1960's, and they changed a lot in that time. All would be considered very stout today, and certainly could be restored if all the major parts were present.

I will tell you that unless it's got a round, gibbed cutterhead, the fence and motor are present, no major broken parts, and it's not too far away, $1200 is too much. If all it needs is a good cleanup, new bearings and belts, and the knives sharpened, and you can handle a 1000 to 1500 lb machine (or maybe more), then that's an OK price. It 's not a steal, no matter the condition.

Kirk

[Kirk Poore]

OK, having done a search, if it's the one in Ohio that you're looking at, and you need a 12" jointer, I'd say it's worth it. Since you're in Dallas, don't forget to add shipping or the cost & time of a road trip. Note that it's 3 phase, so you'll need a rotary phase converter or a VFD to power it.

It's still not a steal, but I'd say it's a good value. It certainly beats the cr*p out of any Asian 12" jointer you're going to find.

Kirk

[david blakelock]

Kirk, thanks for the insight and the tips. You are correct that the one I found is the one in Ohio (thanks Ebay!). Like a lot of folks I struggle with the decision to by something new from a company like Grizzly which may or may not be a good product, or find an older machine that you know is going to be a very good product and will last forever but may require some work. I will continue doing research and let you know what I decide. Thanks for all your help and research!

[Sean Troy]

Personally. I would buy one from Grizzly without a second thought before buying a used one with none of the new safety features of today's models. Grizzly stands behind their products. What do you do when you get a problem with an old machine? Don't get me wrong, finding a great deal on an old machine and doing a rebuild can be very rewarding, but it would have to be a great deal for me.

[Kirk Poore]

Personally. I would buy one from Grizzly without a second thought before buying a used one with none of the new safety features of today's models. Grizzly stands behind their products. What do you do when you get a problem with an old machine? Don't get me wrong, finding a great deal on an old machine and doing a rebuild can be very rewarding, but it would have to be a great deal for me.

I suggest you go on Ebay and look. This machine looks like it already has been rebuilt. As for safety devices, I'm not aware of anything new in jointer safety in the last 90 years or so. I'm betting you could turn this Lightning 506 on and run 10 foot 6 x 12 beams through it continuously until the knives are dull, and it would sit there and say "Is that all you've got?".

Kirk

[John Toigo]

I'm with Kirk about the quality of that jointer. Those old jointers are tough heavy duty machines that will run wood forever. I think the price is high though although I haven't seen it. If I had rebuilt a jointer like that I'd want $1,200 for it. It's a lot of time & effort rebuilding machines.

[david blakelock]

Sean, I understand your logic and I am tempted to just do what you suggest. I can get a new Grizzly G0609X 12" Jointer with Spiral Cutter Head for $2,500 and have no worries. Or I can buy the older machine for $1,200 and have a great machine that I know will last forever. Plus I love the look of the older machines, I know this has nothing to do with the functionality, but there is something about a big solid older machine which is good. Power is not an issue as we live in an old area of Dallas and actually have 3PH power to the house, so my shop will be wired with 220 3PH. It is a tough decision to make. I need to do some more investigation on the jointer and make sure that it has been totally rebuilt and it is in good shape.
One question I have, and it might be a stupid question, but can you/should you replace the knives with a spiral cutter head?
Thanks for everyone's comments. That is what makes this site so great and why I became a member after lurking for a while. Hopefully I can return the favors at some point..

[Stephen Cherry]

http://www.irsauctions.com/index_lots.asp?id=12371

These machines come up all of the time on irs auctions- and they go cheap.

[david blakelock]

Stephen, thanks for the link. I will start watching those auctions. The price is alot better on that site than Ebay..

[Stephen Cherry]

I'm guessing that lots of these machines are bought at auction, get a coat of paint, and end up on ebay.

[david blakelock]

Probably right and for a lot more money. Just because it is on Ebay doesn't mean that it is a good deal...

[Myk Rian]

I'm guessing that lots of these machines are bought at auction, get a coat of paint, and end up on ebay.
Or they go to an OWWMer. Old arn has a certain appeal, especially if you have brought it back to life from being a huge chunk of broken down rust.

I've been replacing my newer machines with old iron I have restored.
So far a Delta lathe, Delta 14" BS, Delta DP220 head drill press, and a DeWalt MBF RAS. They replaced a cheap HF lathe, a 2002 Delta USA made 14" BS, a Delta 12" VS drill press, and a CMS.

I'm looking for an 8" jointer to replace my Griz 8".

[Stephen Cherry]

I like the arn also, I have a delta school lathe, and two delta prison shapers. All were cheap, and with a little work, perform great. I had the resident shaper guru from the OWWM site rebuild one of the shaper spindles, and it now performs like new and I have less into it than the price of a good router and lift.

That said, I like my griz jointer, and see no need to replace it. The common theme: there's no reason to overspend on machines, they are out there.

[Dave Cav]

Kirk raises some good points. He knows his Arn, even if he apparently has a problem with tripping over it when it's painted a conventional color. However, a few things to be considered:

If we're all talking about the one on the auction site, it's pick up only. There's a good reason for that. It probably weighs around 1500 pounds or more. Assuming you can deal with it once it's sitting on your shop floor at home, just getting it there is going to be a major undertaking.

Second, it LOOKS good but a coat of paint and a new pigtail on the cord are cheap. Unless it had been rebuilt by someone I knew, there's no way I would pay $1200 for this thing based on some pictures on the web.

Third, it's got a crack in the outboard motor end bell. The seller said this is no problem. I wouldn't be too sure. Cracked end bells don't ever get better all by themselves, and this one would be particularly hard to fix due to it's open type construction. And your chances of finding a replacement are not very good, either. A good CI welder MIGHT be able to fix it, or you could send it to a foundary and have a new one cast.

Related to the previous, this appears to be a direct drive (DD) machine. That means the motor shaft and the cutter head are probably one piece. Probably, but maybe not; there may be a Lovejoy type coupler between the motor and cutterhead, but I doubt it. This means it's going to have to sit quite a bit away from any adjacent wall or other piece of equipment by distance of at least the length of the motor, taking up valuable floor space. The other problem is that it's going to be hard to replace either the motor or cutter head without a lot of work. I suppose a new cutterhead could be fabricated with pulleys on one end and the motor (or a replacement) could be located somewhere else, but again, a lot of work. Is a Byrd or other helical head available? Well, if it IS a DD machine, probably not, at least as a drop in replacement. You might be able to get together with Byrd's technical staff and come up with a belt drive design but again, it'll require relocating the motor, and it won't be cheap.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

And just for the record, red with black and yellow trim are FINE colors for an Oliver surfacer...