Best "tools" for learning woodworking with hand tools [Archive]

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Rob Marshall

10-06-2010, 5:13 PM

Hi,

I assume that these types of questions have probably been asked before, so a pointer to any existing threads would be very helpful. But here goes...

I'm new to woodworking (well, I wanted to start on it years ago but didn't get very fair...just barely into the very frustrating "I have no clue what I'm doing" part :)) and want to be a neanderthal...I guess. :) I would like to stay away from tools that require amps and watts and instead will run just fine on elbow grease. Although I realize that well sharpened tools will require less of that :)

Also, and I'm sure just about everyone starts off this way, finances and space are limited...So the questions are:

a) What is the minimum set of tools one needs in order to get started?
b) What books/DVDs/Websites would you suggest for help in learning techniques for sharpening, sawing, planing, chiseling, gluing, finishing...all the basic skills one needs in order to become a somewhat proficient woodworker?
c) Are there specific exercises, or simple projects, that you would suggest to someone who wants to practice, and perfect (I hope :)), all the basic skills? In particular simple projects that yield useful and worthwhile results :).
d) What would you do for a fairly functional, but very inexpensive, workbench?

On the workbench front, my current thinking is to make a couple of sawhorses that I can stack when not in use and get a couple pieces of MDF that I can glue/screw together, put a bunch of 3/4" holes in and (maybe, once the budget allows for it) some Veritas pups and wonder pups. At the moment, unless I can find a usable bench vise at a flea market, I'm thinking that might be my best bet for a semi-functional workbench with some basic clamping capabilities.

The other thought that I had for a vise is to make a "moxon" twin-screw vise (I do have the tap and thread-box for 1-1/2" wooden screws) that I can clamp to my "bench", but that doesn't solve the problem when trying to plane longer pieces, hence the "pups".

Any thoughts/suggestions/pointers to previous threads would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and I live in Mid-Coast Maine (just south of Phippsburg/Bath) so if there is anyone in the area that wouldn't mind someone bugging them, asking stupid questions, and generally being a nosy pain in the neck...that would be great too :)

Thanks,

Rob

P.S. Here's what I have so far...a couple of bench chisels (no mortise chisels), a couple small (cheap) block planes, a Craftsman #5 plane, a Stanley #4 plane, a spokeshave (all the planes need to be cleaned, sharpened, and tuned), a brace and set of Jennings bits (4/16-16/16, although I'm sure I paid too much for them since at least one of them is bent...), a hand-crank grinder (with a somewhat beat up stone), a few short (12"?) wood clamps, two VERY rusty saws (one dove-tail and one other fine-toothed saw...and I'm not sure I'll be able to get the rust off of them), some hammers, screw-drivers, framing square, some smaller squares and a t-bevel square, a Workmate 1000 (currently has my reloading stuff bolted to it...but if I build a stand for that... :)). And a couple other bits and pieces.

harry strasil

10-06-2010, 5:27 PM

Not trying to be smart but, you have the 5 most essential tools needed to start with, 2 hands, 2 eyes, and an inquiring mind, and a good connection between them. The ability to ask questions is a very good attribute and those of us here on the Creek are always asking questions, especially about something we don't understand.

Whatever you do don't use naval jelly to derust anything.

probably your best investment would be a pair of books, The Practical Woodworker and The Complete Woodworker, Edited by Bernard E. Jones.

Sawmill Creek has an excellent Search Engine and I advise using it. Also got to the FAQ at the top of the Neanderthal Haven. and check those out.

Marv Werner

10-06-2010, 5:32 PM

Rob,

The best way to get started is to get started......

Figure out something you want to build, something that you feel is in your skill range. Based on your P.S. list of tools, looks like you have already been doing some searching and collecting. Just make a box or a shelf you can hang on the wall to store some of those tools. Once you get into it, you will have specific questions that people will be more inclined to help you with.

Marv

Andrew Gibson

10-06-2010, 5:51 PM

I would say check out this site...
http://www.logancabinetshoppe.com/index.html
Bob is a member here and posts often... he has a lot of good info on tools and techniques on his blog and podcast.

John Coloccia

10-06-2010, 6:04 PM

Personally, I would go easy and buy things as you need them. Also, don't make this neander thing a religion UNLESS you really want to because you enjoy it. For example, there's no need to get mortising chisels. You can mortise just as well by removing the waste with a drill, and then squaring up the sides with a regular chisel.

The only really important thing that any woodworker needs to know and perfect, regardless of what you're doing, is you must have tools that are sharp enough to get the job done. Sharp for carpentry work is a much different sharp than for pairing, for example. Scary Sharp is cheap to start with and gets fantastic results. That's where I'd start if I wanted cheap and simple.

I personally I don't like your workbench idea. MDF will make a very poor work surface, in my opinion, especially if it's not otherwise braced (others may disagree). Here's a very simple workbench design, and it's not very expensive to make:

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm

I built these years ago and it makes a fine, sturdy, inexpensive bench. For dog holes to work properly, they need to be in relatively thick wood, so I don't think that will work out. That's OK. Clamping directly to the bench is perfectly acceptable. I did that for many years until I finally caved and bought a "real" bench.

Does it need to be collapsable? At a minimum, if you decide to use saw horses, I would take the little bit of extra time to make the top into a torsion box so it doesn't sag as you work on it. That will drive you to drink and make the whole experience miserable. It did for me, at any rate. A torsion box can always be turned into a bench just by adding legs, so there's that to consider too. It will be much heavier, though.

In the past, I've used a heavy duty door as a bench top. When you go to pick it up at Home Depot (or wherever), grab a level from the rack and take it with you. Find a reasonably straight one. Here's an example of a bench I made out of a door. I suspect it'd work just as well on saw horses.
http://www.ballofshame.com/flying/rv-7/buildLog/20060322.php

The first shot is the "door" bench. To the right in the second picture is on of the EAA benches (you typically build them in pairs, but you don't have to).

This is all just my opinion. I think most of us started where you did. For me, sharpening and properly tuning my tools was the gateway skill. Once I got past that, everything became SOOOOO much easier.

michael osadchuk

10-06-2010, 6:19 PM

Rob,

Since you are into handtools and looking a workbench as first project consider "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap Bench".....

http://picnicpark.org/keith/woodworking/workbench/BobAndDavesGoodFastAndCheapBench-ne.pdf

It's both good and cheap but decent, solid and lasting workbench don't seem to be a fast project, especially if you need to source your spruce/fir or other softwood in the form of construction grade 2 by material from any of the big box stores as you will need to let them set them aside for a while to let their moisture content come down...... there was a bit of a thread on this plan on the Canadian woodworking forum - use 'building a workbench with spruce' on the search function in that website.

Bruce Hoadley's Understanding Wood is the text on understanding the physical characteristics of wood and how to work with them..... short of finding it in a library there is a similar, if not as complete/well illustrated text available online for free from the U.S. dept. of forestry: google 'wood as a engineered material".

Learn how to sharpen your tools. Probably 90% of making a second hand or second grade hand plane do wonders is sharpening the blade.

Having a hands on guide in the form of a more experienced woodworker beside you is ideal but many of are learning/upgrading our woodworking skills via the internet; there are lots of resources to read and don't be hesitant to ask questions or ask if a plan you have in mind (and are even confident about in your glorious innocence - smiley) doesn't a fatal flaw or two - eg. I'd be skeptical about the durability of dog holes sunk in layers of mdf.

good luck

michael

Pedro Reyes

10-06-2010, 6:47 PM

I support Harry's advice as well as picking a small project... e.g.

A couple of weekends ago I built a small "shaker step stool". Simple two step stool to reach the upper shelfs in the closet, well for the GF to reach them.

In any case, I used:

1- Saw (I have some LN) but I used a gents saw Crown (affordable)
1- Ryoba Saw (also affordable) to cut & rip the boards
1 -Small bow saw (or fret saw will do just a bit of work) to cut some curves
1- 1/4" chisel (to cut some dadoes)
1- Block plane (60-1/2)
1- Jack plane
1- Fillister plane (old Stanley #78, common as dirt)

I hardly make anything where I don't use these tools, so I would not consider these a complete set of beginer's tools, but certainly somewhat essential, at least to me.

I would add a smoothing plane (#4) but since my Jack can be set to smooh, I didn't mention it.

just my $0.02

/p

Matt Evans

10-06-2010, 7:35 PM

I made a short post a while back about something very similar to the question you asked.

My opinion is that it depends on what you want to do that dictate your tools.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1233025#post1233025

Sean Hughto

10-06-2010, 7:38 PM

Prashun Patel

10-06-2010, 7:59 PM

I'm with John: Buy tools as you need them.

If I had to pick ONE tool to start, I'd get a 60 1/2 block plane on ebay and a bunch of sandpaper and a honing guide and learn how to sharpen and what it feels like to shave some wood.

Proper sharpening is essential to using hand tools. I do think you should jump in and make some projects though; it's the way I've been learning; it makes the learning permanent and practical.

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 12:04 AM

Wow! This is great. Thanks to everyone that replied. It will take me a little bit to digest all of this. I do happen to have "The Complete Woodworker" edited by Bernard E. Jones (it was the one book I bought many years ago when I first took a stab at woodworking) and another book called "The Essential Woodworker" by Robert Wearing, as well as a few others by various authors. The Wearing book has some simple projects, like building a table, as well as some exercises on technique, so it may give me some of the more practical steps.

On the workbench, the problem with the MDF (I was thinking about gluing two 3/4" pieces) is that it could bend in the middle (like John mentioned) and I was worried that trying to use something like a holdfast might end up putting too much pressure on the walls of the holes and cause it to crumble/break.

One idea I saw was to get a couple of hardwood countertops from Ikea (from the kitchen department). They have one that is $89 (approximately 2'x4' which should work in my limited space), made of beech/birch/oak (I like the looks of the beech) and it's 1-1/2" thick. A couple of those glued together might make a decent 3" thick top. I'm sure that's more expensive than just getting some pine or a solid core door from the local Lowes/HD, but it could give me a usable hardwood top at a half-way decent price that will look nice too :)

Fortunately we have some old wood lying around the house (piles outside left over from previous construction jobs - before we lived here) and I can use it for practicing my techniques. I'm going to start working on cleaning up, sharpening, and tuning my planes so that I can start practicing.

Again, thanks for all the help and pointers. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions as I (slowly) progress.

Rob

Matt Evans

10-07-2010, 12:18 AM

On the workbench, the problem with the MDF (I was thinking about gluing two 3/4" pieces) is that it could bend in the middle (like John mentioned) and I was worried that trying to use something like a holdfast might end up putting too much pressure on the walls of the holes and cause it to crumble/break.

One idea I saw was to get a couple of hardwood countertops from Ikea (from the kitchen department). They have one that is $89 (approximately 2'x4' which should work in my limited space), made of beech/birch/oak (I like the looks of the beech) and it's 1-1/2" thick. A couple of those glued together might make a decent 3" thick top. I'm sure that's more expensive than just getting some pine or a solid core door from the local Lowes/HD, but it could give me a usable hardwood top at a half-way decent price that will look nice too :)

Rob

Save your pennies then. . .

Combine pine and hardwood. Use the hardwood for the top, and the pine for rest. To be clearer, only get one countertop. You can glue up a pine plank a little oversize, then laminate the Hardwood to that.

Nothing against the original plan of several countertops, but I am personally a big fan of utility, and a natural cheapskate.

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 1:39 AM

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 1:47 AM

Matt Evans

10-07-2010, 1:51 AM

Rob, I am not 100% sure.

I know there are several folks here with benches made of pine, or, in Harry Strasils case, Basswood, and I know they use hold fasts.

David Gendron mentioned something about hold fasts and how they hold in pine, but I can't seem to find the comment he made on it to save my life this evening.

Maybe a Pm to either of them with a question might work, as that they should have that information.

Back on track now. . .

what sort of wood working do you plan on doing, mainly?

Matt Evans

10-07-2010, 1:56 AM

Oh, one other thing...Pedro mentioned a bow saw. I like the idea of having a couple of bow saws in various sizes for different purposes. Are there any thoughts on that?

I have the Frank Klausz DVD on hand tools and he uses a bow saw that looks like it's 18"-24" long and has a larger blade in it than some of the smaller ones, e.g. the Gramercy bow saw, that I've seen. If I wanted to make a collection of bow saws in various sizes:

What would be good sizes?
Where would I get the blades?
And where would I get the pins to hold the blades?

I know that Gramercy sells the parts, but I assume they would only work on the smaller saw.

Thanks,

Rob

Go gramercy for the small turning saw parts.

For the larger ones, get a blade from highland woodworking, or lee valley. (I think Lee valley still carries 'em)

The larger hardware is easy to make. In fact, here is a link to Brian Millspaws shop made hardware. Quick, easy, and efficient.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1513383&postcount=11

Prashun Patel

10-07-2010, 9:05 AM

If it were me - and it was me - I see no prob with a top made of mdf. Instead of holdfasts and dog holes, consider t-tracks.

If you still want dogholes, then I do agree MDF will not hold as well; I know this from experience on my own bench. The way around this is to insert hardwood filler strips where the dog holes will go. If you cut yr top mdf panel cleverly, you won't need to cut channels after glue up.

MDF won't sag if properly supported underneath.

Steve Friedman

10-07-2010, 9:29 AM

Midcoast Maine is hand tool heaven. The three resources that immediately come to mind are:

1. Lie-Nielsen in Warren - www.lie-nielsen.com - go play with tools and ask Deneb some questions.
2. Shelter Institute in Woolrich - www.shelterinstitute.com
3. Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Rockport - www.woodschool.org

Also, I would contact the Maine Woodworkers Association - www.mainewoodworkers.org

Steve

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 10:56 AM

Hi,

With a short Google search I found an article from Popular Woodworking entitled: The Mystery of Holdfasts. Here's the link:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/The_Mystery_of_Holdfasts/

I just skimmed through the article ,but it seems to focus mostly on their testing of the holdfasts themselves, and it does mention that they used both hard and soft woods. From the article it seems that the holdfast itself is what will determine which woods, hole diameters, and bench top thickness, will work best for that particular holdfast.

They listed the Lee Valley hold-down as their top pick even though it's not a "traditional" holdfast (it uses a knob to tighten it down rather than a rap with a hammer). But, other than the hand forged ones, it looks like it's also the most expensive.

The article was written in 2005 and apparently the Gramercy holdfast from www.toolsforworkingwood.com (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com) was still in development. They said it worked well in both hard and soft wood but only if the bench top thickness was less than 2-1/2". I don't know if there have been improvements on that and the website only mentions that the top thickness needs to be at least 1-3/4". The website also mentions that sanding the stems makes them work even better...

Thanks,

Rob

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 11:04 AM

As to Matt's question about the type of woodworking I'm planning on doing (BTW, I can be verbose and run-on with the best of 'em :))...not really sure.

I was thinking about furniture. The first couple of projects are simple ones of putting some frames on the inside of some windows around the house. It's a long story, but some of the windows were never framed...And I would like to look at building a sofa and love seat (our current ones are broken and my wife can sew and has a heavy duty sewing machine). Beyond that I need a new computer desk, book shelves, entertainment center, DVD cabinet...I think once I get started there will be lots of honey-do's to be done.

Again, I can't thank everybody enough for all the help,

Rob

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 11:21 AM

Hi Steve,

Yes, Mid-Coast Maine does seem to be hand tool heaven.

I went by Lie Nielsen a few weeks ago. They tend to be on the very-well-made-and-not-inexpensive side of things. Which would be great if I had a larger budget.

Although I was very tempted, had I gotten a moment with no one else in the shop, to talk with the guy who was on duty in the retail store that day. He really needs some pointers on good customer service, e.g. don't ignore a customer even if you're engaged with another customer. My wife and I wandered aimlessly about the store looking at stuff while he gave someone a sharpening demonstration. He didn't even say hi to us for the first 10-15 minutes we were in the store.

I have driven by the Shelter Institute in Woolwich, but haven't stopped in yet. I did see that they are having a free "Intro to Sharpening" class on Nov. 20th, I'll have to see if I can make that.

And I keep checking the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship website, but I missed their summer session and all I saw initially were longer, 3-9 month, programs for aspiring professionals. They do have community classes that are evenings and weekends, so I'll need to keep my eye on their site when they come out with their 2011 schedule. I think the only community classes coming up were "Learn to Turn".

Thanks,

Rob

Kevin Grady

10-07-2010, 12:14 PM

I heartily recommend this book for anyone interested in learning to use handtools:

http://books.google.com/books?id=o2mtPd4gsosC&printsec=frontcover&dq=watson+handtools+ways&source=bl&ots=cW3Y2G00od&sig=-jws7UZghoN_7F0F56nP3C0qqxc&hl=en&ei=JQitTJ3UO4OglAePr-mdCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

This book has been an incredible resource for me. The sharpening section is great. Check your local library for it.

Other books I've found useful:

The Hand Plane Book, Garrett Hack
Classic Hand Tools, Garrett Hack
Hand Tool Essentials, Popular Woodworking

From my experience, the very first tools you should get: books. read as much as you possibly can.

Also, some DVDs I've found useful:
Dovetail a Draw, Frank Klausz
Making Mortise and Tenon Joints, Frank Klausz
Sawing Fundimentals, Christopher Schwarz

I try and read from many different sources about a topic, finding different approaches, thry them out in the shop and find what works for me.

Steve Branam

10-07-2010, 1:28 PM

I'm new to woodworking (well, I wanted to start on it years ago but didn't get very fair...just barely into the very frustrating "I have no clue what I'm doing" part :)) and want to be a neanderthal...I guess. :) I would like to stay away from tools that require amps and watts and instead will run just fine on elbow grease. Although I realize that well sharpened tools will require less of that :)

Also, and I'm sure just about everyone starts off this way, finances and space are limited...So the questions are:

a) What is the minimum set of tools one needs in order to get started?
b) What books/DVDs/Websites would you suggest for help in learning techniques for sharpening, sawing, planing, chiseling, gluing, finishing...all the basic skills one needs in order to become a somewhat proficient woodworker?
c) Are there specific exercises, or simple projects, that you would suggest to someone who wants to practice, and perfect (I hope :)), all the basic skills? In particular simple projects that yield useful and worthwhile results :).
d) What would you do for a fairly functional, but very inexpensive, workbench?

Yep, you'll get dozens of completely conflicting opinions, all of them right!

So here's mine. I've started a series of blog post for folks exactly like you, under the heading "Intro Hand Tools". The main page, with table of contents is at www.closegrain.com/p/intro-hand-tools.html (http://www.closegrain.com/p/intro-hand-tools.html).

The table is linked to the various blog posts that cover each subject. I've only completed a few chapters so far, but have others in the works. Some of your questions are covered, others will be in the future (along with short videos of each specific skill). The references section lists books and DVD's; the tools section lists my version of "the absolute minimum set" (everyone has their own list!), and my version "the useful additional tools" as you can afford them.

I also have a short series of posts on a build of Roy Underhill's portable workbench. You could build it from a pine 2x10 pretty cheaply. Workshop projects make good practice projects, because they don't have to be pretty, but they still get the job done, and you can learn from your mistakes before you commit to fancy expensive wood.

There's a good tool guy who usually shows up at the Montsweag Flea Market in Woolwich (just across the road from the Shelter Institute) that I've gotten a number of things from. He spends his time buying up old tool chests and then piecing them out. They usually contain a mix of paint-spotted hardware store junk and magnificent antiques; these guys were real builders. I was there this past weekend, he told me he would be at the antiques mall in the old mill in Brunswick this winter, said there were other good dealers there.

Keep an open mind, there are always at least 5 ways to do any task. Pick the ones that speak to you, based on what catches your interest (and the tools you have available). And sometimes try a completely different method, just to learn!

Bruce Haugen

10-07-2010, 1:39 PM

Mosey on over to Thomas Moser's shop on Main St. in Freeport. It will make you want to learn everything there is to know about woodworking.

Matt Evans

10-07-2010, 2:01 PM

Yep, you'll get dozens of completely conflicting opinions, all of them right!

.........(snip)

Keep an open mind, there are always at least 5 ways to do any task. Pick the ones that speak to you, based on what catches your interest (and the tools you have available). And sometimes try a completely different method, just to learn!

Yes, there are very few things that you have to do a certain way. Steve has it right when he says whichever way catches your interest will likely work out well for you.

Whatever you do, no matter the type of joinery or technique, pick ONE method and stick with it til you have it down. Then, if you feel as though it may not be the best method, try a different one.

Most skills carry over from one method to another, so even if you tried a mortice first approach, got that down, then moved to a tenon first approach, you wouldn't be losing any skill building practice.

(That being said, I wouldn't recommend anyone START by trying to emulate F. Klaus freehand dovetails. . .work your way up to the really hard stuff, and get familiar with the tools first)

Russell Sansom

10-07-2010, 2:20 PM

I got along for many years without holdfasts. When I finally drilled a couple holes in my bench for them, I just never used them. I'd simply become accustomed to square dogs and clamps. BTW, since round dogs rotate, there's an advantage to square.
Here's one tool not mentioned yet that changed my woodworking from "what's going on?" to "heh, this all makes a lot of sense!"...a shooting board. Of course, you need a plane to use on it. For me that was a #8 jointer, but I see that many people use shorter planes. Every project I start requires a shooting board.

Andy Guss

10-07-2010, 3:28 PM

Hi Rob,

I'm close to being in your boat. I am relatively new to woodworking, have a limited budget of time, space, and funds, bu I was curious about how to start.

The good news is that there are tons of very valuable resources available for free online and for pretty cheap otherwise.

Also, as a Bowdoin grad, I miss Maine and its people more than any other place I have lived or visited. I'll say Durango, Colorado is a close second.

So, first off, my wife and I bought our first house. We put our offer in last December 14th or so, two days after we saw it for the first time. The house had a workshop built into the side of the garage. Something about that little workshop triggered something in my psyche that must have been bursting to get out, because suddenly all I could do was think about woodworking.

First I started looking at local classes at the colleges, high schools, and community colleges. I found one open to the general public at a local commnuity college taught by a well respected local craftsman. It meant that I would be gone Tuesday and Thursday evenings until 10:30 pm, but my wife said it was ok and I signed up. At this point I had essentially zero tools. The class was amazing. I loved it. Not only did I learn about commonly used power tools and hand tools, but we learned abot design, milling, different species of hardwood, etc. To be honest, my favorite part of the class was hanging out with all the guys there. Senior citizens could take the class for free, so the same group of them, 6-7 take the same class over and over each semester just to keep learning, building, and have access to all the amazing shop tools. At least one of these guys was a general contractor with 50 years building experience. Some of the classmates were as much of a resource as the teacher. In any case, that experience was as close to solid gold as I have found as an adult. For the whole semester it cost me about $500.

There was no actual textbook for the class, but the teacher recommended Peter Korn's book, "Woodworking Basics". I have purchased that book, along with many others, and I love it and recommend it. There are good exercises, descriptions of techniques, projects, information on tools, etc.

While on that note, Popular Woodworking magazine has a downloadable manual for beginning woodworkers on their website as a companion to their monthly "I Can Do That" projects that covers basic tool selection and shop setups to get everyone up and running with the basic set of machinery and equipment. For people getting started and with a budget, this is a great resource for projects and information.

Fine Woodworking magazine offers a free 2 week trial on their website. You can go sign up for that and then download as many articles and plans as you want for the first two weeks. I like the site, and the articles so I just subscribed and have a full time online membership, but you can get what you need for a few years of reading material in two weeks. They have a video series and several articles about getting started. I also suggest you look at the "Rock Solid Plywood Workbench" while there.

Popular woodworking has a free downloadable article on their popular "$175 Workbench" as well as the article on teh 24 hour workbench that you can read about. Also, Woodsmith magazine had a tv episode on building an inexpensive MDF workbench and the plan for that is a free download at their site. If you can catch that episode in reruns, I think it addresses exactly what you are interested in, even if you ultimately choose a different bench design. (Season 2, episode 206) (http://www.woodsmithshop.com/episodes/season2/206/)

Personally, I suggest you learn Sketchup. It is a great way to design projects and make plans, measurements, drawings, etc. There are many, many websites and tutorials available specifically about using Sketchup in woodworking. Also, I can help with this, but I have put together a list of helpful sketchup links if you want. I used Sketchup at my work before I ever got started in Woodworking, but it has been very helpful for working out the geometry for my own designs.

When it comes to books and tools, my main suggestion would be to buy used as often as possible. Ebay is tough for good deals on tools, but great for good deals on books. Likewise, Amazon and A- libris have sections on older, out of print, or used books. Somebody already mentioned the library. But, Fine Woodworking has run off "Best of " series of articles for years reprinted from the magazine as books. You can get these for about $3 each and the information is great. That's just one example. There is also completely free, like the Gutenberg projects free e-book "Carpentry for Boys" (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20763) by Zerbe. Suer it is about 800 years old, but I can't imagine there is not something in that book that everyone could learn a bit from, even if it is just for those names in the glossaries.

When it comes to used tools, classified ads are hit or miss and can be a frustrating and time consuming way to outfit your shop. On the other hand, it is pretty much the only way to come home with an Emmert vise without breaking the bank. Once you know what you are looking for, it will be easier to get what you need without overspending. My main advice is to be very patient. Eventually there wil be a good deal on every single tool you need. You can just get them one at a time.
When you have a good idea what tools you want for your shop and how you plan your shop layout, you will be able to prioritize.

Lastly, you are already taking advantage of the internet forums. I have to say that so far my experience has been that woodworking forums are the most helpful and civil of any forums I have ever participated in. These ones are great. Also I like the ones at OWWM. I get a weird vibe at lumberjocks, but you can always try them out for extra opinions.

If there is something specific that you want help with let me know. I have come up with pretty cheapo workarounds for almost everything my budget limitations have thrown at me so far.

Andy

Jerome Hanby

10-07-2010, 3:31 PM

A wood stove? :D

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 3:43 PM

Hi Steve (Branam),

Oddly enough, I was looking at your blog the other day (I plan on visiting it regularly). I came across all the entries on your Roubo bench and was quite intrigued. Especially when I saw that you're in Mass. and had recently been to Nashua for the tool exchange (I used to live in Nashua and our kids still live in the area).

I've been to Montsweag but perhaps the guy you mention either wasn't there or didn't have much that day. I also went by the flea market in Brunswick a few weeks ago, but they didn't (at the time), have much in the way of tools. I'll keep an eye out for the guy you mention when I wander back through there the next time.

And I agree with you and Matt that perhaps I should be thinking a lot like Charles Emerson Winchester III, who once said: "I do one thing at a time, I do it very well, and then I move on..." much to Hawkeye's consternation :) Sorry, miscellaneous MASH reference :)

Also, I have (I think) all the pieces I need to make a shooting board, just haven't gotten to it yet...need to fix up my planes first :) Well, there are probably a whole lot of things that need to be done "first" :)

Thanks,

Rob

michael osadchuk

10-07-2010, 6:09 PM

Hi Matt, thanks for the suggestion.

Let me ask the question this way: If I used pine for the top, would I have problems using holdfasts? i.e. Would the holes be likely to widen when using a softer wood?

In an earlier reply, Michael pointed me to a PDF for "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast and Cheap Bench" which is made completely of pine. They use square dog holes, I was thinking of using round ones...but I'm not dogmatic :) about it, mainly because I like the idea of holdfasts. So my concern is that the holes would widen because of the pressure against the walls. Although the length of the holdfast might mean that the pressure would be spread out over a large area and perhaps it wouldn't be a problem. Does anyone have any experience with this?

On the other hand, I think it would be a safe bet that there have been many discussions, maybe even religious wars, waged over the topic of which woods to use for a bench. Maybe someone could provide me with a few links because I'm not sure I want this thread to get too side tracked with the bench...

Again, I really appreciate all the help.

Rob

Rob,

I would hazard a guess that upward of 90% of shopmade woodworking benches have round dogholes. I use Lee Valley brass bench dogs and find they don't rotate and wouldn't expect homemade wood ones to either.

Round dog holes are just easier to do - drilling into the solid completed benchtop - than incorporating them into an earlier construction stage.
Also you can leave the location of them as one of the final steps, after you have changed your mind a half a dozen times about vises and other details that will have an influence on where you put the dogholes. Also you can more accurately align the dogholes with each other (as well as with vises) on the otherwise completed workbench so that you can use homemade hold downs and other jigs interchangeably in more pairs of dogholes.

Pine will hold dog holes fine.

One of the qualities you typically want in workbench is mass/stability.....when you are handplaning or sharpening a hand plane blade or pounding something in place you don't want the workbench moving around.

Don't rush out and buy all kinds of accessories for a workbench ... I have a nice holdfast from Lee Valley that I haven't used for a decade because I found other (cheaper and homemade) solutions more convenient.
Look up books or online resources from an earlier time for cheap homemade workbench accessories ....for example, Robert Wearing has another book, called Making Woodwork Aids & Devices that duplicate many of the items you will find in a glossy catalog from a woodworking supply store.

good luck

michael

Rob Marshall

10-07-2010, 8:26 PM

Hi Andy,

Not sure how I missed your post when I was looking through here earlier, but I want to thank you for taking the time to put all of that in.

I too decided to join Fine Woodworking and I've been watching a bunch of their video workshops. And I agree with you that I need to figure out what I want and then trust that I'll find it :)

Thanks again,

Rob

Rob Marshall

10-08-2010, 2:33 PM

Hi Andrew,

I took a look at Logan Cabinet Shoppe. He (Bob) built his last bench using softwood, so that it wouldn't dent the pieces he works on, and it looks like a very nice bench. He also uses holdfasts a lot and something that looks like the Moxon twin-screw vise that I was thinking about. So I will probably steal, er...borrow, some of his ideas as I plan my own bench.

I'm still not sure if I prefer the front apron to a sliding deadman, but the apron probably requires less engineering up front and would probably work fine for most of what I'm thinking about doing. I can always change my mind on the next bench I build...once I know what I prefer :)

Thanks,

Rob