White Oak Crib finishing help

[Jeremy Treibs]

Greetings all.

Everytime I visit the Creek I am humbled at the knowledge that can be found here. I enjoy reading everyones personal blood, sweat, and tears stories. But onto my question...

I have recently finished a white oak baby bed (3 in 1 from Wood Mag) and am studying all of the methods and recommendations for finishing a piece of baby furniture. I am still somewhat confused as to using waterbased and oil based and all of the oils that are out there to choose from. I want to put a finish on it that will last and yet not give my daughter cancer when she is 15.

I have read how some recommend using BLO first to pop the grain. I imagine I will try this on a scrap piece of white oak to see if it does anthing.

I was thinking about using Watco red mahogany stain for color (I like the cherry mahogany look).

I want to put a satin protectant after the watco. I think watco recommends varathane poly.

Any recommendations? Am I out to lunch on what I want to do finish wise?

Thanks!!!

[Conrad Fiore]

Jeremy
You can skip the BLO if you are using the WATCO Danish oil finish in red mahogany. That product is a varnish/oil blend with color added, the oil being linseed oil. That product is supposed to be a stand along finish, but I don't see why you couldn't overcoat it with the WATCO wipe-on poly. As far as finishes go, anything you buy today is totally harmless and non-toxic when cured. The only situation where you might have a problem is if someone has an odd allergy for any of the products that you could use.

[Scott Holmes]

"Any old poly" over an oil/varnish blend is prone to adhesion problems.

Poly is for FLOORS. There are better, clearer, and harder varnish available, and as an added bonus they have a couple of traits that blow poly away.

1. Sanding is not REQUIRED between coats...when using poly it needs the sanding to get enough "tooth" to stick well. Not so with other varnishes.

2. They will stick just fine to the Watco oil/varnish blend. Not true with poly varnishe which has trouble sticking to itself let alone an oil/varnish blend.

[Jeremy Treibs]

Thanks!

Scott,
What would be some examples of these better finishes to go over Watco danish oil?

J

[Scott Holmes]

Watco is a good in-the-wood finish all by itself. If you want a film forming finish these are all top quality non poly varnishes.

Pratt & Lambert # 38 Alkyd/Soya

McCloskey Heirloom Alkyd/Soya (Now repackaged as Cabot) Still not at Big Box stores

Waterlox Original High Gloss Phenolic/Tung

Sherwin-Williams (parent Co. of Minwax) Fast Dry Varnish Alkyd/linseed

Behlen (Master) Rockhard Table Top Phenolic/linseed

If you want to buff it to a high gloss use one of the Phenolic resin varnishes. The harder the better it buffs to gloss. 4-6 brushed on coats will be enough for the top to be buffed. You can only buff the top coat if you go through to the coat below you will leave witness lines. Varnish needs 30 days @ 72 or higher to cure before you can buff it.

[Shawn Christ]

Jeremy, there's some good advice here. I would add that if you are just starting out, in my opinion it's not a bad idea to use something you are comfortable with. My first project 8 years ago was a crib made out of red oak. I used oil based polyurethane because that's all I knew at the time. It looks great and has held up great. If I were to do it again today, I'd skip the poly and consider something else -- maybe varnish, waterborne, or even shellac. That said, I know several woodworkers who only use polyurethane because that is what they are accustomed to, it's readily available, and it gives them the results they are looking for. If there is a particular finish you like, go for it.

[Scott Holmes]

Shawn,

Poly is VARNISH. Polyeruthane varnish. It's a type of varnish that is VERY abrasive resistent; it is tough, it not very hard, tables and cribs are better off with a hard varnish.

[Steve Schoene]

Just to add what Scott said. Not only is "poly" varnish, but the non-poly varnish applies in exactly the same way. If you are accustomed to using poly, then you are accustomed to the techniques for applying a non-poly varnish. Nothing is the slightest bit more difficult. In fact the reverse is true. There is less risk of having the finish not adhere because it wasn't compatible with the substrate. If you want to rub out the finish at the end then it will be easier with the non-poly varnish.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> I want to put a finish on it that will last and yet not give my daughter cancer when she is 15.

Since the mid 1970's all finishes have been required to be non-toxic when fully cured.

>>>> I have read how some recommend using BLO first to pop the grain.

Yes, but if you are going to use a Watco stain, no BLO is necessary. Watco is primarily BLO right out of the can. Just be sure to continue to wipe off the excess as oils on deep pored wood like oak will bleed back for a few hours. Keep watching and wipe it down ever 30 minutes or so.

>>>> I was thinking about using Watco red mahogany stain for color (I like the cherry mahogany look).

Fine, see above. Be sure to follow the label directions and be sure to let the Watco fully dry before top coating.

>>>> I want to put a satin protectant after the watco. I think watco recommends varathane poly.

Varathane is owned by the same company that owns Watco. You can use any oil based or waterborne top coat you want. An oil based top coat will be somewhat more protective than a waterborne. Also, a non-poly varnish will give you a slightly better appearance.

[Jeremy Treibs]

Great advice! I appreciate all of it.

I am getting that Poly is not recommended. LOL.

I saw some Varathane high solids Spar Urethane oil based satin outdoor (deep breath) at the store. What do you think about using this?

Also, I am looking for a satin look, so what I have read is that several coats of gloss and then final with a satin coat will keep it protected and yet not make the sheen look cloudy (due to multiple layers of satin and how light reacts to the constituents of the material is what I get out of reading).
Is this correct?

Once again, I am humbled by the responses. Thank you.

[Shawn Christ]

Shawn,

Poly is VARNISH. Polyeruthane varnish. It's a type of varnish that is VERY abrasive resistent; it is tough, it not very hard, tables and cribs are better off with a hard varnish.

Scott, I am well aware of that. I was not recommending poly; as has been said there are better choices. I was simply sharing my opinion that if he is a beginner it may not be a good idea to try an entirely different finish that requires a different technique. Non-poly varnish would be a great choice.

Jeremy, good luck on your crib and be sure to post pics when it is complete.

[Jeremy Treibs]

I will definitely post pictures after it is complete (adding a few trim pieces and then final sanding prior to finishing).

Here is another question... there are some darker spots in the oak that I wouldnt mind lightening up a bit. I read somewhere that oxalic acid dissolved in hot tap water brushed on would lighten some of these darker areas up? Any advice?

[Scott Holmes]

Exterior varnishes are formulated to be softer and more flexible. They are also LESS water, moisture, and vapor resistent. NOT for furniture... I would recommend interior poly before the spar varnish and most on this site know that I say poly is for floors! PERIOD.

Pick an interior non poly varnish if you want a top coat. The Watco will give you pretty go protection but not as much as a film forming finish.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> I am getting that Poly is not recommended

Techically, there is nothing wrong with poly varnish. It's just that a non-poly varnish will have a nicer appearance. Poly varnishes have a sort of cloudy, hazing look to them and if too many coats are applied they can look "plasticy".

If you plan to continue woodworking let me suggest you go to Amazon and purchase Bob Flexnerss Understanding Finishing. It is an excellent book and will give you the info you need to chose the appropriate finish for your jobs.