Handyman Club of America Router Bits in the Mail???

[Brian Tax]

In the mail yesterday, unsolicited, I received some router bits, saying to try them out and if you like them keep them and pay, or else send them back. I don't see how they can expect to make any money off this. They say it is no obligation, and it would be nice if you sent them back. It is more of a pain to repackage and send them back than to just keep them. Also I think sending them back would just encourage them to send more stuff. Kind of reminds me of those CD clubs that they outlawed back in the 90's.

[Lee Schierer]

You are under no obligation to send them back. The Postmaster General says if you didn't order them you don't have to pay for them.

[Dave Lehnert]

This was discussed about a week ago.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=149355

[James Malcolm]

Darn nabbit. Why don't I ever get free stuff in the mail?

[Neil Brooks]

Darn nabbit. Why don't I ever get free stuff in the mail?

Do bills count ?

[Dave Lehnert]

I wish Grizzly and Lee Valley would start doing that with large equipment and hand planes :D

[Richard McComas]

It looks like Wood Magazine is involved in this.


Well I was over on Wood and saw a post about this. Here was Marlen's reply.



Here is the reply I just received:



Handyman Club of America is offering a router bit promotion to a select number of WOOD subscribers. As part of the program, Handyman Club of American has arranged for participants to receive free downloadable plans from WOOD magazine. Participants receive router bits in the mail and they can choose to buy the bits…return the bits…OR KEEP THE BITS AT NO COST OR OBLIGATION TO RETURN THEM. If you have questions about the program, please call the Handyman Club of America’s Quality Control team at 877-893-7944.



Marlen @ WOOD

So it looks like the contact information came from Wood to Handyman.

[Dan Hintz]

My package was pretty clear in that it came from my subscription to Wood magazine... see the previously mentioned thread for more detail.

[Bryan Morgan]

A little while back I got a woodworking DVD that was basically the same thing... although they said I could keep it or send it back. I sent it back and now they keep sending me bills saying they never got it... I just toss them as I never ordered this and have no obligation to pay for it.

[Neil Brooks]

A little bit of info, from the horse's mouth:

[Richard McComas]

A little bit of info, from the horse's mouth:


Well we already had that information. The problem is unless Handyman club is different that the rest of the undesirable places who try to market "stuff" this way they will, if you do nothing will start dunning you for payment or keep asking you to return the item for months on end. I don't care what the fine print says. It just not a good way to do business.

[Mark Patoka]

You could just "test" the bits and when they get dull then mail them back. I'm assuming that HCOA included return postage?

I'm a WOOD subscriber but also an HCOA member from long ago so I doubt I'll get my "free" bits. It's probably their attempt to generate new members.

[Jacob Mac]

I got the same package a couple of days ago. The bits are junk, and I think would be more likely to ruin a piece than to perform its job properly.

I understand that the marketing practice is really suspect. But I also have a hard time believing anyone would be interested in buying these bits based on their quality alone. The bits are terrible. Not to mention the MLCS bits are cheaper and better quality. Or just buy nicer bits on an as needed basis from Holbrens.

[Dan Hintz]

What are you basing your "junk" opinion on?

[Myk Rian]

I WAS a subscriber to Handyman mag. Canned it when they decided to have sexual improvement ads. They sent test tools from time to time. The only decent one I got was a funnel with a filter screen in it. Everything else was junk.

[Peter Quinn]

I got a package from Handyman of America club, and probably laughed for 45 minutes after reading it. I kept saying to my wife "Can you believe this garbage? Read this pamphlet. Is this serious? Do they actually expect me to believe they are going to send me a bunch of great power tools to review and let me keep them? How have they identified me as "One of America's premier Handymen" and decided I was a competent reviewer? Clearly they have never seen my house or they would have sent me a "Procrastinator's club of America" membership.

Yes, its bunk. Pure unmitigated unadulterated unsweetened unfiltered bunk. They are not going to send anything of any value, you owe them nothing, I throw away every thing they send. Do you really want to spin garbage at 20K RPM's?

[Chris Brault]

thats funny peter, my same thoughts went through my head, (spinning that thin bladed router bit at 20K) , i did keep them, although i might've just changed my mind where they'll end up!

[Dan Hintz]

Okay, I'll ask again... upon what is everyone basing their opinion that these bits are "junk"?

[Matt Meiser]

IMHO, it is a safe assumption that anything sent out by HCA is junk based on a long, long history of them doing so.

[Dan Hintz]

This is turning into a typical bashing thread... I have yet to see anyone post a factual reason why these bits are "junk". Give me something I can verify on my own set, not just "This company makes junk".

[Matt Meiser]

10 years of woodworking forums and not one positive statement about them that I can recall is enough proof for me and I haven't seen the bits. Numerous reports of having never gotten anything to "test" or just having received cheap, poorly made items. Numerous reports of the magazine being very poor. I would be hesitant to use them based on past reports of the quality of items people have received from this company, regardless of what they look like. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to waste the money on scientific testing. The only thing I've ever received from them, since I haven't signed up, is numerous useless plastic drill bit gauges. Useless because they were constructed of such soft plastic that a sharp drill bit would easily slice through a closely sized hole. I have heard that they are useful as glue spreaders.

[Mark Patoka]

Dan,
I haven't seen the router bits in question but I think most of the bashing is based on the fact that just about any HCOA branded tool is of inferior quality. The tools they try to sell are at the bottom of the quality and durability level. I was given one of their cordless drill/flashlight sets once that didn't last very long. I did receive some of their drill bits that seemed OK for the average homeowner but most likely wouldn't suffice for someone that makes a daily living using them. I will assume their router bits are the same average quality that will meet the needs of the one-time use weekend warrior, not something I would use everyday.

The products testing process has been beat to death in other threads but at least those items, when you do get to test them, are the real item from the manufacturer, not the cheap HCOA branded items.

[Dan Hintz]

So what is being said in this thread is these bits are junk because they come from a company known for making low-quality products.

I realize I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, so I'll stop after this, but I'm surprised no one else sees the oddity in many yelling from the mount how these things are junk without ever have seen them in person, or others saying they're junk without giving any valid reason other than it comes from company 'X'. Seems a bit unfair, IMO, and doesn't really help newbies (such as myself) learn what makes an item of poor quality... all it does is try to (unfairly?) make me jaded against a company. If it truly sucks, fine, but throw me a bone and tell me why it sucks...

[Matt Meiser]

Exactly. When you are talking about spinning a chunk of metal at 20,000 RPM that more than enough for me. If they can't make a drill bit gauge or flashlight, do you really want to test their supplier's metallurgy or carbide brazing skills? Not me...

[Jacob Mac]

So what is being said in this thread is these bits are junk because they come from a company known for making low-quality products.

I realize I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, so I'll stop after this, but I'm surprised no one else sees the oddity in many yelling from the mount how these things are junk without ever have seen them in person, or others saying they're junk without giving any valid reason other than it comes from company 'X'. Seems a bit unfair, IMO, and doesn't really help newbies (such as myself) learn what makes an item of poor quality... all it does is try to (unfairly?) make me jaded against a company. If it truly sucks, fine, but throw me a bone and tell me why it sucks...

Hey Dan,

Let me give you my opinion as to why I would never pay for or use these bits.

First, these bits all have 1/4 shank. So I am almost immediately predisposed to not liking them. But I acknowledge that is a personal preference/bias. Second, the brazing is poor/discolored on the bits I received. Third, the blades are just plain dull. I went to the shop and tried the bits out and I got a poor quality cut/blowout. Finally, these bits look exactly like the cheap Chinese bits you can get from amazon for cheaper. So even if you wanted them, you can get them cheaper at other merchants. Back to my very unofficial test:

My process with pattern bits is as follows. First, I cut out the pattern roughly to shape on the bandsaw. Next, I sand down as close as possible with my spindle sander. Then I use the pattern bit. It might be excessive, but I hate ruining a piece of wood because of blowout. And when following curves where the grain changes direction, blowout is always a big concern of mine.

So I sand down as far as possible to mitigate my chances of ruining a nice piece of wood. For giggles, and to prove I am not simply biased against the company, I used some templates for a G&G frame I am pretty fond of making. My control was a nice, but used, Whiteside pattern bit. The Whiteside bit did fine.

The Handyman bit, otoh, had some blowout and was just a worse quality cut. It was very rough. Same router, same piece of wood, etc. I am sorry, but I do not have any pics to provide. The wife has the digital camera and is out of town.

[Dan Hintz]

Jacob,

Thanks for that. Do you think it's possible to properly sharpen the bits to get rid of the blowout?

[Jacob Mac]

Jacob,

Thanks for that. Do you think it's possible to properly sharpen the bits to get rid of the blowout?

Probably, assuming the brazing on the bit is ok. And I have questions about the brazing on the ones I received. But given the quality/cost of these bits, it probably is not worth your time. Plus, I question how long the blade can retain their edge. But that is just conjecture because I have never done it.


Typically, I buy Whiteside bits from Holbren. Great bits and great service. Can't go wrong with them. Usually I only need one or two new bits per project, if that. So the cost of bits is not overwhelming on any given project.

Finally, I question the wisdom of buying router bits in sets like this. I would much rather have eight quality bits that I actually need then to have a score of bits I never use.

[Myk Rian]

So what is being said in this thread is these bits are junk because they come from a company known for making low-quality products.

No. They don't make anything but a poorly written rag. They send out a mailing list to manufacturers/distributors of cheap junk to use, evaluate, and keep.

As I stated earlier, the only tool I got to test, and am still using, is a Mr. Funnel.
The speed square I got had so much powder coat on it, I couldn't read the numbers. It wasn't useful as a 90deg because it wasn't 90deg itself. Everything else I got from them was in the same class as the speed square.
I laughed when I got a 30" piece of duct tape to test. It didn't stick to anything.
There is no way I would trust a set of router bits. Maybe keep the box.

[Neil Brooks]

Are there really very many serious exceptions to the "stuff that's free is worth exactly what you paid for it" adage ?

Not in my experience.

[Dave Lehnert]

it's my understanding that this same place also operates "Clubs" for other hobby like Gulf, Hunting and others.

[Bud Millis]

All they ever send me are drill bit sizing guides. I have about 30 of these, plus window stickers and little memo pads. Why can't they send me something I need like a 3 3/4 hp plunge router to try out.